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Why is Overzealous getting Changed but not Prove Thyself?
It makes legitimately no sense. Overzealous is a perk that just released and hasn't even done enough numbers to justify a change, yet you're also not changing Prove Thyself in any capacity despite it clearly showing it's a problem for the game.
Why? Why would you do this?
Comments
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They probably don't see it as a problem. Prove Thyself does what it's designed to do, counteract the penalty for working on a gen with another person.
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But that's also the PROBLEM with Prove Thyself. It makes Generator speeds much faster when repairing as a team and allow for gen rushing to exist.
If they're nerfing or changing so many of the Killer's regression or slowdown perks, as well as two Survivor progression perks, they should have gone the extra mile and added Prove Thyself to the list.
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I didn’t even realize earlier that it wasn’t on there. I agree they should change it.
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pretty sure overzealous is supposed to get buffed cuz it's ######### compared to prove thyself.
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As with every update, this is by no means a list of every perk that we think could use some changes. We only have a certain amount of time to work on each update. If you don't see it here, it doesn't mean that we think it's fine or that we won't ever touch it.
When a new chapter launches, we collect feedback throughout the PTB and live release. This doesn't always leave us with enough time to change a perk right away, since we need to submit our builds to the various platforms well in advance. It just so happens that our first opportunity to make the change we've been playing to Overzealous happens to be in the same update that overhauls a bunch of other perks.
We added it to the counter because it would be much stranger if we quietly left it out and didn't mention it only for it to get changed by surprise at the same time.
Also:
nice
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Prove Thyself saves like 6 seconds or something close to that. It's overall not very egregious, it just counteracts the 15% repair penalty.
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My guess is that Prove Thyself is working as intended and Overzealous is too weak (which has been very strident feedback since the PTB.) There's no possible way Overzealous is getting nerfed.
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im pretty sure that around 6 years of Prove in its current state existing in the game would be enough data to show that it lets survivors blitz through generators much faster than normal. Already seeing it a ######### ton since the event, and once gen regression is nerfed survivors are gonna realize how broken it is. Plus, since DH will be obliterated and they wont be able to actually loop or chase anymore, they can use this to substitute their lack of skill.
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Are there any plans to look into Prove Thyself in the future, at least?
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Prove thyself hasn't been like this for 6 years it used to be dog shyte before they buffed it and nerfed leader like I think 2 or 3 years ago
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No it isn't. The narrative that it's some busted perk is getting really old.
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The only thing Prove Thyself does is remove the penalties for repairing a generator with more than one person and give more blood points.
You're rushing gens with more than one person on a gen!
No wait, you're rushing gens by splitting up!
Make up your mind.
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Prove Thyself is not that much of an issue.
- Your average Discordance enjoyer
Jokes aside, I do like to rind Discordance but Prove Thyself shines when there are two or less gens left and 3-4 survivors alive. In ideal scenario you will generate pressure at that point that means two people don't even have the time to be on a gen together. If that's not the case, you were probably going to lose this one either way. At the same time, Prove Thyself can be a bit of an issue if the Baby Dwight is following me all over the map all game long, hoping to do a gen with me. 😅
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They're likely buffing basekit regression, which in turn comes with nerfing regression perks and Overzealous is probably getting a buff.
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Pop, Tinkerer, Pain Resonance, Ruin nerfed. PT left alone. Pretty good job so far, as per usual. Can't wait for the 4min matches against gen-hungry SWFs.
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I'm back into discordance since playing more artist.
Also my worst early game feeling used to be double discordance lighting up immediately but lethal pursuer showing four survivors spawning by four different gens is vastly worse :(
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Trust me, I know the feeling. 😂 But at least with Discordance I'll know where they are and can decide if I need to prioritise one gen over the other as it's in a good three-gen. Without it, both gens might be popping in my face. 🙈 I like Lethal Pursuer as well because having a decent early game.js so valuable - but like you, I've sometimes had that feeling I've lost as I spawn in. Discordance is a great endgame perk as well though (and that's where it really counters Prove Thyself well).
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Yeah I feel either corrupt/discordance/LP is kind of essential unless you're willing to risk having a horrible early game (which is sometimes fine), and I got bored of corrupt long ago even though it's probably the strongest choice. Then after a LP phase I went back to discordance on most killers except blight because I'll won't turn down the opportunity to get my first hit 10 secs into the match 😋
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I think people really overestimate prove thyself. It's not a bad perk by any means but it's hardly OP.
It saves about 6 seconds with 2 people, 8 seconds with 3 and around 11 with 4. This time save is also not nearly as efficient as soloing gens as the time save comes from negating the efficiency loss of working together. As in, it takes 80 seconds to solo a gen and 41 with prove thyself where otherwise it'd take 47.
It's more useful for knocking out a problematic gen and maxing objective rather then straight up rushing them.
For reference, the base brown toolbox with no add-ons saves around 5 seconds while the commodious saves around 11, again no add-ons. Toolboxs can also be brought by everyone without needing to waste a perk slot or needing someone else to get the benefit.
I think Prove Thyself is perfectly fine as it's basically just a toolbox in perk form.
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Honestly lets just wait for the base changes. It might change Prove Thyself subtly by making it even less efficient then it already is to work on generators together.
Granted I'm not holding my breath, but innocent until proven guilty I guess?
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I just want to see "Dissolution" (Dredge's pallet perk) buffed into a viable state. Right now the 3 second activation delay as well as the notification for survivors that the perk is enabled make it pretty much worthless. The survivor is either already over that downed pallet before the perk can take action or they're off to the next loop. It's simply not good.
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Well... Im still at that stage where I don't have everything unlocked on everyone - at 1000 hours in. 😅 So my loadout heavily depends just on that - I have to play with what I have unlocked. But you know what? I somehow like it most of the time as it's forcing me to be more creative around using the perks I have available.
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Exactly. It's also more strategic to split up on gens. It's far easier for the killer to get survivors off one gen than 3-4 scattered across the map. If everyone sits on a single gen and the killer interrupts then progress is completely halted. If they were on separate gens, only one would stop progressing while the others continue. "Don't put all your eggs in one basket." Prove Thyself only really shines when preventing or breaking up a 3-gen.
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What if it broke the next pallet dropped as well, whichever happens first
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Even if it did that, the 3 second delay needs to be removed. What's stopping a survivor from throwing a pallet down right after being hit? The perk wouldn't be able to react in time due to the damn delay.
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the problem is that it increases repair speed by 30% by counter-acting the penalty, 30% is a lot of repair speed. co-op 2-3 gens which the survivor will naturally do based off the teamwork nature of the game saves 6-7 seconds per gen. If you co-op all 5 generators, you reduce total objective time by 30-34 seconds. that is like the killer using current pain resonance nearly 3 times, each pain resonance is 12 seconds. so it does ~44% progression.
I don't think anyone overestimates the perk. If anything this perk is underestimated because its not used enough despite having near game-breaking effect. Its pick-rate is way too low in my opinion. I think survivor would overall win a lot more often if they used this perk due to fast-objective time.
As Peanut states, there is only so many perks that can get changed in 1 chapter. Overzealous is completely useless because it takes 15 seconds to cleanse a totem+the time to find a totem, so in order to gain anything from 6% repair speed, you'd have to do a minimum of 3 generators to counter-act cleansing time and +2 generators if you don't find the totem right away. This isn't talking about how the perk disables upon any injury. current Overzealous perk is worse than not bringing it. it is No-mither-levels
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I only recently started running Prove Thyself in response to the meta of killers bringing 3-4 slow downs in almost every game. Along with the toolbox nerf, of course, and killers who passively stop you from playing the game, like Pinhead, Nemesis, the Artist, and even Sadako with the tapes. It's your job to stop survivors from doing the gens. And I hate to tell you, but Prove Thyself only works if your teammates are willing to do gens. Play solo for a while and see how many times your teammates ALL stop playing and expect everyone else to finish the last few gens for them. If they even start doing gens at all.
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Doing gens is how survivors win. Do you really expect your opponents to help you win the game? I guess you should purposely slow down your hooks, huh?
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In all fairness, Overzealous is a bit weak, considering how you must first find and break a totem, then avoid the killer at all cost, to maybe get a 6% increase to gen-speed (In other terms: shaving off roughly 4 seconds from a standard repair), while co-op'ing with Prove Thyself takes roughly half the time to finish (I think it takes 37 seconds to two-man a gen with PT, and 76 to finish one solo with OZ).
Toolboxes and BNP's can shave off even more time. I heard a full 4-man SWF set the record at 6 seconds for a single gen.
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You can make another one at 6.969.
Two times the fun.
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But they do have a point all of the killer perks that take 25% of like pop to other ones like ruin are all getting nerfed or changed, but yet there not touching any survivor perks that speed up getting gens done its kinda saying a lot right there.
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It's not saying anything, because we know that these perk changes are coming with basekit changes too.
They could be slowing down all base survivor repair speeds, and so nerfing killer slowdown perks in response, making slowdown perks less essential.
Or they could be buffing survivor base repair speeds and buffing all of these slowdown perks as well to balance.
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While I agree overzealous is useless, I disagree with your assessment of Prove Thyself since again, the time save only comes from negating the efficiency lost. Solo gens and then cooping the last is nearly as fast as Prove Thyself and a bit more consistent since you don't have to worry about 2 people getting knocked off a gen. Prove Thyself also doesn't give 30%, it gives 15% as it doesn't effect the user, only the person next to you.
Let's compare solo gens to two Prove Thyself group gens with no interaction from the killer at all.
Solo- Four gens done in 80 seconds with the 5th gen done together in about 47 seconds with two people. 127 seconds total for all gens not counting movement time.
Two Prove thyself groups- Two gens in 41 seconds, followed by another Two in 41 seconds and the last one in 41 with two people. 123 seconds total for all gens not counting movement time.
Not including movement time Prove Thyself will only save 4 seconds altogether. With 3 people coop-ing the last gen, the time difference is 7 seconds and four people is around 9 seconds. Again for reference, a single commodious with no add-ons saves a flat 11 seconds.
I'm not saying Prove Thyself is bad as the extra time you do get can help destroy a 3 gen or slam out the final gen which those few extra seconds saved can be the difference. The perk just isn't as extreme as people think it is.
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it gives 15% as it doesn't effect the user, only the person next to you.
This is wrong. It does affect both the user and the person repairing the generator with you. Its currently slightly bugged. Its suppose increase repair speed by 15% for both users for total of 30%, but currently it gives only 26% speed bonus.
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Yes, but having PTS remain as is with the pretty sweeping regression nerfs, and the issue becomes that it's now much harder for the killer to pressure the survivors sufficiently to slow down the game.
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Okay, I do stand corrected on the user thing. I thought the 15 percent efficiency loss only applied to one survivor but it seems it does apply to both which means Prove Thyself should apply to both as well.
However, my calculations should still correct based on how the game does percentages. It doesn't add or subtract a flat 15%. It does it based on the number itself. So if a person does 1/c a second on a gen, it will become .85/c a second when with someone else.
With Prove Thyself it doesn't add the .15/c loss back. It takes 15% of .85 which is around .1275 which we can round to .13 This means when survivors are working together they are only doing .98/c which is why the bar is red instead of gray when working with someone using Prove Thyself.
Now lets go even further and say it did work by adding a flat 15%. This would then save time only on the final gen, which would be 7, 12 and 16 seconds respectively with two, three and four people.
As far as I know this should be how the calculations are done. At least this is how they were done.
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I'm not sure why survivors even have perks that make the gens faster. Prove thyself + toolboxes are a big issue right now.
Not even gen defense skills can help with gens popping less than 5 minutes sometimes and there is no way i can get 12 hooks in that time.
This event made this obviously clear even more, because survivors literally gen rushed to get the doors open to get their masks as fast as possible. I was lucky enough to get few hooks in the game.
I personally think gen speedup perks are bad for the game as it is now.
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Once again... these perk changes are coming with base game changes. The reason why all killer regression perks are seing a change is likely because base repair or regression is getting changed too.
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As a killer main, Prove Thyself is perfectly fine.
It is not really a repair speed increase, it's a "I don't have to go to another gen" bonus. All it does is (almost) negate the penalty for stacking survivors, so they can work on a gen together.
As a killer that's what you want. Gen rushing happens much more effectively when survivors split up on gens, you want them all grouped together, so you can pressure them all at once. It's neutral at best and actually works in your favour if you run Discordance.
It also doesn't stack with itself, so multiple survivors running PT means they've wasted perk slots.
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they're obviously buffing it just like they said not every perk on there is getting nerfed
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I did not want to go into detail for how it works, but thankfully you went through details to explain it. I would say for the user reading a tooltip, they would expect the perk null repair penalty speed. 15%-15% is suppose to be 0. how it works in back end for programmer should not concern the user/player, though you could argue the tooltip is wrong as it inaccurate displays information for the user.
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I used to use Prove Thyself all the time but the past couple of months it seems kind of pointless to use. However, during this Sweatfest Event, I'm using it more just to have a chance at some bloodpoints.
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Why is this entire forum filled with posts on changing survivor perks because they're "too" OP even though they're working as they're supposed to?
With DS, CoH, DH, IW, and now even Prove Thyself that gets picked once in a blue moon seems to be an issue. Maybe just replace all survivors with perkless bots, maybe then all the killer mains will be happy sheesh.
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I'm sure you already know this, but it's because what those perks are supposed to do ended up being overpowered.
DS was overpowered. It got fixed, now it's balanced.
CoH was overpowered. It got changed, now it's... still really strong, but not quite as OP.
DH, IW, and (arguably, I'm not convinced myself) PT have yet to be changed, so they're still being discussed.
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