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New DH is Actually Better?
The argument understood by the devs is "it acts like a third health state, allowing a Survivor to escape a situation where they would otherwise go down"
New effect, "Dead Hard will now provide the Endurance effect for 1 second when activated. If you time it right, you'll prevent the hit and gain a movement speed too."
I don't understand how this addressed anything except making Dead Hard more explicit in what the chief complaint of it was, "acting like a third health state." Instead of getting a short distance boost with i-frames, you'll now get a hit movement speed boost with a built in Styptic agent and a killer cooldown weapon hit.
Comments
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Yeah your do the same thing as before. Greed greed greed, hit E. Get speed boost.
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It means the Survivor can't just DH at will to reach the pallet. They now have to time the DH for when the Killer swings to make it to that pallet.
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It's a big buff in many of these key, "annoying" cases. I hope this will not come to LIVE servers or I will lose my mind.
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People were complaining that it wasn't skillfull. now it's more skillful and its a problem. What more do you guys want?
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Dead Hard is now better at doing some things than it was previously good at, and can no longer do some things that it could previously do.
What was gained vs. what was lost was not even - using Dead Hard for distance was more valuable than an extra health state - DH is an overall fairer perk now.
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Dead Hard was always going to be complained about as long as it denied killer hits. Anyone who thought Dead Hard was going to get changed in a way that it wouldn't be an extra "health state" was deluding themselves.
Plus people were complaining about both the distance aspect and the dodging hit aspect, so it was bound to still be a complained about perk.
My only gripe is the change to Dead Hard gives no indication to the killer it's being used. So it's just going to lead to "hacking" complaints.
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Wow, so if you happen to time it just right you might be able to get one speed boost before the killer learns to bait it out. That is Smash Hit levels of terrible, but then again, this same forum complained about Smash Hit when it was announced so I shouldn't be surprised.
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I think it depends if it indicates that they have activated it. Otherwise, it would be just the old waiting game for DH to activate but worse since you wouldn't know if it was used or not. It would be really problematic for killers who have predictable projectiles and would be really easy to use DH on. Demogorgon, Huntress and Blight just to name a few.
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It's better in some situations but worse in others IMO.
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They said there'll be an animation for it.
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I think it does tell you. They responded to someone's tweet asking about it and they said it will let the Killer know when they use it.
I can't remember who's tweet though. Sorry.
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The perk still takes zero skill for the survivors that can dead hard on reaction to the killer pressing M1.
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Okay so I guess it is weaker...? I don't know then, I would have to wait and see.
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I can already see how this would be a problem. Against killers with ranged abilities it would still be a third health state. All a survivor would have to do is just brute force their way through a chase with them. They could use DH right as they vault a window or drop a pallet and the killer couldn't really do anything.
As for if killers get close to m1 them it would just be a very annoying guessing game. Unless I am mistaken this would be pure guessing of when to use DH.
Also, it would still do the same thing. A killer would get close to a survivor about to use a window or pallet, and they could swing and hit the survivor as they use DH right before they get to the pallet.
Also also, stealth killers would have a much tougher time getting survivors who are injured. Stealth killers rely on already injured survivors and if dead hard was a thing then survivors would stay injured and whenever a killer surprises them they could just press m1 to deny them of a quick down.
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Isn't a survivor reacting to a killer's M1 animation skill?
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Not in any meaningful sense. And it certainly isn’t enough skill to justify a free speed boost for anyone that can do this.
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Imagine a survivor hearing a hatchet being thrown, they hit dead hard on reaction, and now they get a speed boost instead of a small dash.
Dead hard should give endurance, but not a free speed boost if they get an endurance hit.
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I'm gonna say you sound a little bit biased on this one.
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Knowing when to camp and tunnel takes skill, do you think those things should never be nerfed because they take skill? It technically takes skill for Blight to “hug tech”. Does that mean that shouldn’t get nerfed either?
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Yeah, I don't really know if this is a Dead Hard nerf. It's a sidegrade, maybe. All of the situations where the survivor could use it to reach a safe spot... can't they still do that? I guess if it's a window, you can wait it out and then hit them through the vault, but pallets are still lose-lose and dead harding through killer powers is even stronger now.
I don't see DH's usage decreasing because of this, is the thing.
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You said the perk takes zero skill. Are you agreeing now that it does take more than zero skill?
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Borrowed Time 2.0
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No, I’m doubling down and saying it takes zero meaningful skill. I’m not playing these word games with you.
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And that's exactly why you sound biased.
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I don’t care what you think.
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I see it as a nerf because, with current DH, what negative effect do you have with your third health state? None.
With proposed DH what negative effect do you have after? Deep Wound. At the very least, you got a slow down out of it.
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No problem, you do you.
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I can't tell for sure how good it'll truly be. But the issue is this: DH has been the biggest problem regarding the current Meta. The smartest thing would have been to downright GUT the perk, make it as niche as Smash Hit, and then consider buffing it in another patch. I think it's VERY important to see what a Meta would be without DH or a perk that resembles it, like this one. Again, playing it safe when they try to be daring in other areas. Very strange.
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i dont understand this update but if there is a video there will be better explanation
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Deep Wound is pretty negligible. It doesn't hamper a skilled survivor's ability to loop in any way, which is really all that matters if you're continuing to chase them (which you generally should after you've gotten someone to spend their Dead Hard.)
If I could verse current Dead Hard distance and no Deep Wound, or a 3rd hit's worth of distance and Deep Wound, I'll pick option 1 any day.
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I just love the fact this was pretty much the exact change to DH I posted in a thread a few months back in these very forums. I like the idea of this change, just find it interesting I haven't received my check yet 🤔
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Yea, I’m with you on this one. This will take some skill & a lot of luck to time a swing with a 1 second window, on these servers. We’re still getting hit through windows & pallets and we’re supposed to guess that accurately? I guess I need to see it in action first, before passing judgment. But imo, it really sounds like a useless perk as of right about now. And I’m more upset at that, then DH itself getting changed. I’m not a DH user (only have it on two builds & forget to use it 90% of the time), but I think the way it was nerfed was all wrong. I always said nerfing the distance would make it useless. It was the iFrames that needed to go. Y’all remember “exhausted on the floor?” That showed how effective not having iFrames was. You had to have skill to know your tiles and gain distance ahead of time. You couldn’t get a 2 for 1 by baiting a missed swing AND gaining distance. That bug had your ass laying on the floor exhausted, because the killer hit you mid animation. It is what it is, though. Everyone will learn to adapt.
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They will still be able to do this though, right? Won't running with 1 second of BT cover the distance of old DH anyway? So it's really not that different, if not better? And it would mean you have the choice of pulling the pallet or just taking a hit and saving the pallet whilst you run to a safer loop (if hit)?
WORST thing is (for killers at least), I'm guessing they will NOT have any indication on whether a survivor has used their DH or not. So right now you can bait out a DH right? Well with the new DH you will never know if they really used it or not. That's a scary thought.
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This is overall a good change for Dead Hard. Say goodbye to survivors using it to safely reach a pallet or a vault they wouldn'tve made without it.
If they time it right now, you can leave them to chase a different survivor while that injured survivor now has to mend, and then heal.
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The thing is that when you are DHing for distance, you are both getting closer to the pallet AND further from the Killer, who now has to close the gap caused by the DH. Now, you are not gaining any distance from the Killer, who can now potentially reach you AND hit you before you make it to the pallet.
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Honestly if it has an animation to let the killer know what's about to happen I'm fine with the new version. The worse aspect of the perk was the distance that made safe unsafe spots.
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I am okay with this, the new iteration will at least require the surv to time the use for it to have value. No more just hitting E to get to that window or pallet, which was by far my biggest gripe. Perfectly timing it isn't as easy a many think, and waiting it out/baiting will make it essentially useless a pretty large percentage of the time (I am assuming the killer will also have an indication when the surv has used it and failed as well).
It will still serve its intended purpose, but isn't nearly as much as a brain dead bailout.
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You can DH and vault the window, killer hits you and you get endurance just like that.
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It's an on command borrowed time with a speed burst, obviously we won't know until the PTB comes out, but I would GUESS that this wasn't really a nerf and more so a BUFF.
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Nobody will react to a M1 at the closest range
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It's confirmed there will be an animation.
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Fully agreed, deadhard change will make it an actual good perk for people who master the timing, altho some interactions with certain killers should be looked at like removing tricksters full laceration meter or and I can be wrong if some legion addons still make deep wound go down with hits, since it would be BS to get a perfect dh and legion just downs you.
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But then they have to mend, so they lose a bit of time.
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At this point, just remove the perk entirely or they should give to it only the iframes or dash when activated. For non-noobs survivors hitting and timing that 1 second is not hard and getting free sprint burst and endurance? Devs are so wild. And most of dead hard users are even bad at the game, that's not even a joke...
As i said and how devs themselves said, players should not depend on perks to play and win the game. Do you all see the chart with this perk having A STRAIGHT line from mmr 200 to mmr 2000, like its 100% being used? That is wild.
I'm very sick to see this trash perk every god damn game, 3 or 4 of them, we have 7 pages of perks, but guess what, currently we see only 10 perks.
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I will take the mend instead of the hook
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by animation, they mean that the survivor glows in white when dead hard is active, kinda like when you hit the survivor during borrow time. it will be similar to how white appearance that survivors showcase when in dredge's nightfall ability.
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its an improvement(so...nerf). no i frames, and you gotta actually reach the pallet first.
i still think itll be very good, it just might need time to marinate
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Will it have an animation that will alert the killer before they start to lunge? If the killer doesn't see an animation, then are they safe to lunge?
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It's still going to be a decent perk, just not as oppressive as before. The fact that it no longer gives distance makes it a bit easier to mindgame and counter, will eat a bit of time for mending purposes and also means that you can't eat powers.
We'll see how it plays on the PTB. The goal is to reign it in slightly, not destroy it (ala Spinechill).
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There’s no Deep Wound in the new Dead Hard.
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