New deadhard have a potential to kill the game.
Many players or i can even say majority of players anticipated the meta change only to see the deadhard nerfed into the absolute ground.
Instead we got something that sounds so extremely terrifying and only ptb will tell if it was a ''Nerf or rather a ''buff''.
Don't be surprised and shocked IF new dead hard turns out to be stronger or even at the same level as it is right now and killer players will leave the game in MASSES.
I really don't wanna another boil over or old legion situation when the game will be simply unplayable for couple of weeks until devs fix the problem.
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Wasn't the issue Dead Harding for distance?? They literally got rid of that. What else do you want them to do?
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They got rid of the aspect of Dead Hard that removed any and all killer player agency (DHFD) and replaced it with something reliant on hit validation. Plus it's a nerf so people will stop using it even if it's still good out of instinct because they cannot fathom something remaining good after a nerf. So it's an absolute win here
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If new DH is broken enough to kill the game then one of 2 things will happen.
- It's so OP that they will give it the old MoM or patch 1.9.2 treatment(destroy it) and we wont have to worry about it
- It kills the game and we all migrate to VHS
Win/win :P
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Rework it completely. Press E to get distance and press E to dodge the killers hit is equally ridiculous also perk is still gonna be overused...
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What was gonna kill the game was obviously BS dead hard for distance where the killer couldn't do anything about it. Now that it doesn't give distance and an endurance WITH an animation that means someone can't pop it before a vault and just get through scott free and a speed boost.
Overall stronger vs blight and nurse or any killer that really has to telegraph their swings/hits but worse against m1 killers.
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They buffed that part by allowing survivors to move freely and giving them distance upon hit.
But then no way it can get to live servers anyway, we really don't need much concern.
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Old Dead Hard: 0.5 second window
New Dead Hard: 1 second window
Old Dead Hard: 6m travel distance
New Dead Hard: 12m travel distance
Old Dead Hard: Straight-line movement that could run into walls or corners if not aimed correctly
New Dead Hard: Full control over your character's movements
Old Dead Hard: Able to make it to pallets but prevented you from vaulting
New Dead Hard: Able to make it to pallets AND vaults
Old Dead Hard: Movement only
New Dead Hard: Free range of motion under the invulnerable status, including uninterruptable unhooking
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It's literally one second of endurance with an animation y'all gotta stop being so dramatic lol
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They want you to start the game on hook so they can just win without doing anything.
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Next DLC will have a perk called Will to Live and it will literally just be current Dead Hard lol
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SPRINT BURST EFFECT?? Y'all gotta be trolling now I'm convinced.
That part like I'm so confused like these ppl will complain about something, get what they want, then complain some more.
Literally 1 second of endurance. They can't bait out one single second of endurance it's crazy.
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Who says you have full control of your movements?
For all we know the animation that plays is the survivor stopping and bracing for impact. Not moving at all for a second
Untill we see it in action nobody knows how good it will be
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I like the Dead Hard rework.
The new Dead Hard is weaker against weak killers and stronger against Nurse and Blight, specially Nurse.
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unless that animation locks survivors in place, whether you accept it or not it's literal 1 seconds of free distance.
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At least there is no mention of immobilization.
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Let’s just wait until the PTB next week. Some are interpreting it as something scary, others like myself see it as something practically useless, that only skilled players will benefit from. Question is, is it worth a perk slot for those players?
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Must be fun pulling that much **** out of your ***
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It's just a fact based on how it's worded in official text though.
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No, it's a bunch of assumptions.
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Don't forget that DH will be a true Skill Based perk. Time it wrong then they still get hit and hurt
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It's literally an information that is given to us, there is nothing beside "it gives endurance", even the visual cue is not there.
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Wonder if after getting the endurance hit, that perk that lets you run faster for 2 extra seconds would also work, same with otr hit
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it's not a nerf, it's a rework... a bad one i might add since this is overall a buff (before once they used dead hard to reach a pallet they were forced at least to throw it, now they can avoid to waste the pallet and they'll also get a mini sprint burst for being hitted)... it's nerfed only aganist certain killers (i'm thinking about trapper since you can't avoid his traps anymore, deathslinger since he can wait the second thanks to his reel and legion since he will apply directly deep wound with feral frenzy)
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The main issue with DH was the 'for distance' problem. Whilst the new DH has the potential to give survivors a brief speed boost, it requires meticulous timing - not like old DH where any mistake could be negated by pressing E. Please remember, the new DH only provides 1 second of endurance, this is such a small window of time and it would have to be timed perfectly with a killers M1.
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Yes it is
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1 second of literal invincibility is A LOT while in chase though.
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Trapper, Slinger and Doctor are three characters that will perform much better against new Dead Hard.
Still baffling that a perk that people complained was giving survivors a free third health state now literally gives a free third health state. But we'll have to wait and see. Issue is this will mean you STILL have to breathe down the survivors neck before you attack. Removing Dead Hard would mean killers can actually swing their weapon to get hits again. It's so frustrating to have to wait every single time someone is injured. We can only hope it's mediocre and thus not run all that often. Then it'll be tolerable.
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You literally have to be jocking right right???
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Changing dead hard to do anything different than "press button to dash forward" is probably not going to sit well with a lot of people. Survivors are used to this and have been for a long time now. I suppose in time some players will get used to the new DH and maybe even like it but I don't think most survivors who used DH always are going to like this. Its going to be interesting to see how players react once/if it makes it into the game especially after seeing initial reaction to just the mention of the change. My guess is a lot of survivors are going to be very upset about it. Will they be upset enough to not play the game anymore? Maybe for some, but I think its too early to tell until these changes make it into the game.
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I mean old freddy got changed and his playrate skyrockted. If it stronger people wont mind. The reality is dead hard is gonna be weaker for most medium to low skill players. For excelent players it will be much stronger.
Think of the survivors who can consistently hit dead hard the minute enter .5 seconds of attacking. It really depend on how generous one second is and how it measure up to a killers swing.
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You can't use it for distance anymore it's fine, we'll see more exhaustion perks now sprint burst, lithe, overcome instead of DH everysingle game
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I really do hope so. The main issue i guess is that deadhard is stupidly overused and im really worried that's not going to change after this update.
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You guys do realize that weapon cleansing got shortens? And the sprint boost after a hit got lowered?
Yeah now u can vault and unhook while close to a killer but still requires optimal timing.
And I read something about breathing the neck of the surv? Well tbh you should not be 10 miles away for a hit anyway.
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I suggest a cooldown of 300 seconds after use Dead hard xD
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Well, not really.
You can activate it for one second, the killer will see the animation and know if they hit you right then you'll get a free hit, a burst of speed, and they go into their melee cooldown.
So if you can just keep moving during this one second then you can still use it to get 4 meters of distance to a vault or pallet that you wouldn't have been able to get otherwise.
Now if they make it so you're locked into the animation and you can't drop a pallet or vault while its active, then that would be fine.
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"New Dead Hard: 12m travel distance"
Am I missing something here? New Dead Hard gives you no speed boost unless you time the Endurance hit correctly. So just using DH and not succeeding on that timing means your travel distance just normal Survivor run speed for 1 second (which I believe is 4 meters.)
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As worded, it doesn't immobilize the survivor. I highly doubt that it immobilizes the survivor due to BHVR's track record.
The problem here is that DH was THE most oppressive and overused perk in the entire game. Nothing else even came close. People were expecting it to be nerfed in the same way that the killer perks were nerfed: OBJECTIVELY nerfed in a manner where there is no room for debate about whether or not testing in the PTB will determine if the change is a buff/sidegrade/nerf. We expected changes to dead hard where there would be zero room to interrupt the change as anything other than a blanket nerf with no upside, and the only debate is whether or not people will keep using it post-nerf or not.
edit:
and don't forget how much of a HUGE buff this is for the subtle hackers out there with the auto-deadhards.
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The thing I came to realize about the change to Dead Hard is it's, at least on paper, exactly the kind of change I'd advocated for. Basically you get the distance if, and only if, you actually block a hit with it.
I've never minded the I-Frames aspect as I considered "take/evade a hit that would otherwise down you" was part of the perk's very premise (ex: the flavor text references how you know how to take a beating).
The perk is no longer a "Press E to Outplay", as in this case it now actually is an outplay. You do it right, you take that hit, presumably go into Deep Wounds, and get your post-hit speed burst (which itself has been nerfed, I feel should be mentioned), do it wrong, you go down.
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"Dead Hard will now provide the Endurance effect for 1 second when activated. If you time it right, you’ll prevent the hit and gain a movement speed boost. "
There is nothing in the wording that i see that suggest how mobile you are while using it. Untill we see it could literally be anything.
We know there is an animation so it is safe to assume that they can't do anything during it. The only annoying thing i can see is that pallets become 50/50 if it works like i think it does
Personally i am glad it didn't get gutted. I want the annoying aspect of it gone but there are enough barely usefull perks in the game.
It is true that the auto dead hard thing is a bit concerning.
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That bit there, "Until we see it, it could literally be anything" is entirely the problem. There shouldn't be any guessing here. That's a problem in and of itself. We have the most problematic perk in the game and nobody knows if it's actually nerfed or just sidegraded. We have a high likelihood that the meta-shifting patch will fail in its goals of shaking up the meta. Killers will keep spamming slowdown perks, likely different ones since their flagship slowdown perks were universally kneecapped, but still slowdown. There is no question of waiting around for the PTB to learn whether or not corrupt/ruin/Pop/pain res are weaker than their live incarnations or not. Simply a question of whether they're still playable or whether they've been consigned to the dustbin.
Things probably won't change on the survivor side of things. The go-to meta build was pretty much DH/DS/BT and filler slot. They get a second filler slot now to increase their flexibility since BT is going nowhere at all since it was made basekit. DS was outright superseded by off the record doing DS's job but better. DH might not be going anywhere since on paper its change is so milquetoast that nobody is actually certain if is weaker or not. There's just a wishy-washy "well, maybe the way it works on the PTB will be a bit weaker than people think that it will be from the wording" bit of ambiguity.
That wish-washy ambiguity is what's causing such intense concern when the perk in question, Deadhard, was THE biggest problem child in the entire game.
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Nah we just don't want one survivor perk to be "press E for free win even if you stop to teabag"
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They are using the optimal situation.
If used properly, the old DH only gave a 4m burst of movement.
In the right hands, the survivor will gain 1.8s of 50% Haste - gaining up to 6m/s for 1.8s - which is about 12m.
If you use DH perfectly today and the killer misses - they enter a 1.5s recovery animation and you gain 4m distance.
If you use DH perfectly after this patch and the killer hits you - they enter a 2.8s recovery animation and you gain 12m distance.
The killer experiences nearly twice the slowdown and the survivor covers three times as much distance.
This makes the perk much, much stronger numerically - and triggering it will not be outstandingly difficult, as most survivors have an approximate time that they will get hit by creating a threat to end the chase (Vault - throwing a pallet - Conspicuous action - body blocking)
In theory, not as good.
In practice - much better.
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Yes, but due to the inability to just use it freely to dash to a pallet or vault point, the "optimal situation" now has a tighter window. I could be wrong here, but I think in practice, DH simply whiffs more often (while also having a bigger payoff if it connects).
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It is not at all a tighter window. Where it used to be a 'Use either right when you're about to get hit, or as you're approaching a loop interaction to gain distance, it's precisely the same here.
Use DH in the open to save yourself | Still works exactly the same, new version is patently better in the open - if you bait out the hit, higher numbers reward you.
Use DH at a loop while the killer draws close to extend the loop | Still works exactly the same, if you're about to lose the loop - press E to flip the killer the bird, if they hit you - you can rush to another loop altogether. This may fail at times, but it's highly reliable.
Use DH at a window to bait the miss | Can't do this anymore - as there are no I frames.
Use DH to get to a pallet safely | Still works exactly the same, instead of gaining 4m in 0.5s, the player has 1s of invulnerability and gain 4m in 1 second. It's effectively the same dash at half speed. The killer cannot hit you before you get to the pallet, and once on the other side - the pallet can be dropped safely. The killer must either give you a hit/speed boost and preserve the pallet, let you throw the pallet and stun them, or disengage and surrender the loop. Exactly the same.
Use DH before vaulting to ensure a safe vault. | Works even better now, one used to need to calculate distance to get to the vault faster - a mistimed DH will have the character bunch up against the window and eat a rebuttal attack, and even on a successful interaction, the player does not gain any momentum on the other side of the window. However, now the player is doubly fortified. If they press E before approaching the window - there's precious nothing the killer can do to stop them. Hitting the survivor will confer Deep Wounds and give them a substantial speed boost on the other side of their vault, waiting out the timer allows the survivor to safely vault away, and forfeiting the chase simply isn't a 'counter' to pressing E.
It's not a tighter window - you press the button at the same exact times and it's going to work effectively the same.
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"It is not at all a tighter window. Where it used to be a 'Use either right when you're about to get hit, or as you're approaching a loop interaction to gain distance, it's precisely the same here."
It's not. You're not gaining distance when using it while approaching a loop. You are, at best, moving at the exact same speed as you would while running. You can still use it JUST as you're about to reach the pallet to make it safely, but because you're not getting a dash, the window IS tighter.
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I do not think you're understanding.
Survivors move at 4m/s - that's 4 meters in 1 second.
Dead Hard grants 4m worth of movement.
If you press the E key at the exact same location as you previously would have with DH - you approach the pallet with Endurance and close the exact same amount of distance safely.
So long as there is a vault or a pallet at the tail end of that 1 second duration, there's nothing that can be done about the activation of the perk.
When survivors use Dead Hard to dash for a pallet, they do so safely - closing 4m of distance where the killer cannot stop them, and then throw the pallet.
When a survivor approaches that situation now, they do the exact same thing: Approach the pallet - press E when about 4m away - throw the pallet down upon reaching it.
The window is not tighter - the window is precisely the same: 4m from the pallet.
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When you currently Dead Hard, you are actively gaining distance away from the Killer, who now has to spend additional time to close that extra distance. That is not the case with the new Dead Hard. You are no longer getting closer to the pallet faster than the Killer can move. THAT is the difference.
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It is exactly the case, and I don't understand why you are not getting this.
Old DH ferries you safely 4m - the killer cannot hit you.
New DH ferries you safely 4m - the killer cannot hit you.
If the killer swings with old DH, 1.5s animation.
If the killer swings with new DH, 2.8s animation.
You are no longer dashing super quick over the 4m, but you have guaranteed safety for the next 4m.
You are traveling the same distance with safety.
Using the perk 8m or 6m from the pallet may no longer work, granted - as killers can now wait that out and hit before the pallet - but at the prime location to use DH for a pallet, the interaction is effectively unchanged.
Vaults, however, are greatly buffed - as survivors are given a generous speed boost afterwards, half of Lithe and a free health state.
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On paper, new Dead Hard doesn't bother me too much as it boils down to the change I personally advocated: You get the extra distance if, and only if, you take the hit.
As noted, you can buy yourself at least a second if you use it tactically, and I'm not sure how problematic that will be in practice.
The main thing is the worst of the "press E to outplay" is gone. If you use Dead Hard at the right time and either take a hit that would down you or make the Killer hesitate in a crucial moment, that seems like an actual, legit outplay.
You can say it rewards bad play or covers for mistakes, but some perks do have that effect (Technician, Bite the Bullet, Corrective Action, Unrelenting, and some Killer addons line the Nurse's wooden rocking horse)
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"Using the perk 8m or 6m from the pallet may no longer work, granted - as killers can now wait that out and hit before the pallet"
Ergo, the window is now tighter. Case closed.
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