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IW was buffed because of Spirit
Iron Will was buffed as a nerf to Spirit. Is this not going to recreate a problem that was already fixed once?
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I don't think so. The problem with old Spirit is that a survivor couldn't tell where the Spirit was coming from. Iron Will allowed a survivor to cut off their sounds as well so that a Spirit did not know where they were going as well. Due to her phasing sound now being directional, it's only fair that a Spirit should have the information of where a survivor is as well. This way allows both sides to act on the information that they have present.
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No because Spirit got nerfed. IW was stupid and never should’ve completely silenced injured survivors regardless of whether spirit existed or not.
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The IW change is ultimately healthier (although I do not know why it has an exhaustion requirement tied to it), because it makes it easier to balance the game around survivors not being completely silent while injured. Now we don't have to factor that survivors either make sound or don't make sound, it's yes they make sound.
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No. You can tell where spirit is now. Outside of MDR spirit is mostly fine even with the iron will change.
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because...?
That's what the perk does. I don't really see why this shouldn't be.
As a killer main, yeah that's frustrating to lose sight of survivors. But that's not the end of the world. I sometimes lose survivors because of many other perks. That's why they're called perks. It's supposed to do something.
25% of grunts of pain is exactly the same as 100. It's very easy to hear survivors with No Mither and it shouldn't be.
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Because sound is a core part of the game and shouldn’t be able to be permanently hidden with the only prerequisite being to be injured. Being injured is supposed to be unappealing and the perk completely removed one of the largest downsides to being injured, while also making other perks that silenced grunts of pain not worth running because they had more restrictions than IW did.
In the case of spirit it acts as a hard counter to a power based on using the environment and sounds to catch survivors. And if you said “well doesn’t cherry blossom kinda do the opposite in a way?” yes it does and that addon shouldn’t exist either.
That said, IW may have been overnerfed, but time will tell.
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I still don't exactly see how it is overpowered. It removes ONE part of tracking (still, scratch marks, pools of blood and footstep sounds). The only thing I agree with that I've seen mentionned arround here is that IW shouldn't remove the breathing mechanic from being healthy (since, how it is, you do less sound when injured than when healthy when running IW).
Also if the biggest downside of being injured was really grunts of pain, No Mither would see play outside of No Mither challenges.
The worst part of being injured is going in the dying state after one hit.
This game needs diversity. We can't entirely remove a perk just because it does what it's supposed to do.
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Nah, I think perks that completely remove a form of tracking are nonsense. Exceptions being perks like Lucky Break which have a cooldown attached to them, those can be powerful because they are ultimately temporary.
Further the person you quoted didn't say it was the biggest downsides, they said it was ONE of the biggest downsides, and it is. If you get hit, you should be punished for doing so in ways beyond just going down in one hit, like blood trails. The killer already demonstrated they did one of the most important things they need to do, that being finding the Survivor and landing the hit to begin with, and from there things should get easier rather then harder.
Likewise, just saying the game needs diversity isn't a valid form of argumentation imo. Plenty of perks do what they are supposed to do but that doesn't mean they're healthy(Knockout comes to mind, which for some reason was buffed.) we can't just dump wildly unbalanced perks into a blender and hope things turn out 'okay' at the end of the day just because we want more build options.
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Iron Will has always been balanced. Removing one part of tracking isn't OP or unhealthy. There are counterplay to it (as mentionned, footsteps, scratch marks and pool of bloods).
Lucky break is already currently better than IW (but harder to use and attached to a cooldown, but still, you are God for a minute).
New Lucky break is miles and miles better than current IW.
You think that a perk that helps with being stealthy is nonsense. Other people think slowdown perks are all nonsense for killers. Other people think DS was nonsense. Other people think Lithe is nonsense. Other people think Head On is nonsense. And yet again other people think Devour Hope is absolutely Overpowered.
That's nothing but opinions. if you don't like the perk, don't play it. If you don't know how to face it as killer, then learn. I can track survivors with Iron Will. It's not that hard. The perk honestly isn't that amazing against good killers. It's also very map dependant because if map doesn't allow you to hide being structures, the perk is useless.
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There is literally no counterplay to it, that's the problem with the perk. The entire point is that one method of tracking is removed completely, and the one method you would think would counter it(Stridor) does nothing because zero multiplied by ten is still zero.
Also i'm just going to get this out of the way: 'That's just your opinion man.' isn't a valid counterpoint. The universe has a lot of things we have opinions about but that doesn't change the hard reality that Iron Will just removes one form of tracking entirely. Just because you can still use other forms of tracking doesn't mean it's countered, only circumvented. There is zero interactivity, you can do nothing about it, all you can do is figure out ways to work around it's existence.
I'll also say: I'v killed plenty of survivors with Iron Will, i'v killed an entire team of survivors using Meta Perks with nothing but Monstrous Shrine, Gift of Pain, Darkness Revealed, and Iron Maiden. But accomplishing that task doesn't mean I think those perks are any less stupid, if anything realizing how those perks could not be countered without certain other perks(if at all.) only made me view them with more contempt.
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Your arguement targets the wrong thing.
Iron Will was considered the best because it could do a lot of things for a "low" price. Be stealthy while outside of the chase and be elusive on certain high wall loops.
If you're running Lucky Break you would still run Iron Will just because that makes you "invisible". It probably still is possible with changes to IW, but less consistent.
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Iron Will was not buffed because of Spirit. It's an annoying myth that has no basis besides Stridor having been common on her.
It was buffed because Stridor was countering perks it was never meant to (namely Self-Preservation and Bite the Bullet) due to how volume was calculated. They changed the calculation to keep things consistent so there's not a laundry list of exceptions.
Spirit had nothing to do with it. It's a myth perpetrated by the community.
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The problem is Iron Will is needed for certain survivors such as Ash and Jeff. Plus why shouldn't survivors have the ability to escape the killer every once in a while. Without it, survivors will never be able to escape a killer.
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There's a lot of plays you can make with IW, that you can't make any other way. Like switching back, hiding in a corner during a loop, window and pallet switchbacks, etc. It removes the ability for survivors to do things they normally can't do. I am totally against remove survivor options and this removes a lot of survivor options.
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Well, first, I've played quite a few multiplayer online competitive games, and pickrates really don't always reflect winrates. (yet a lot of developpers consider pickrates as the God statistics that prove something is good or bad, and in a lot of games, they will nerf top picked stuff into uselessness, or buff low picked stuff into being OP because they were never OP or UP).
Self care being a prime example of that, it's not a strong perk, it's arguably a weak perk now because of sloppy butcher. But it's a convenient perk for solo players.
iron Will isn't weak. I didnt say that. It's a good perk. I actuallyu don't mind making it disabled when exhausted. But if it's not at 100%, it litterally does nothing.
Why is it played that much? It litterally does what it does no matter what. It's a simple perk effective at what it does and it doesn't require any additional input from its user. It's also extremely strong for beginners. I see a lot of survivors try to hide without it because, as a survivor, it can easily feel like you're quiet, when in the killer pespective, you're not, because the killer doesn't hear the terror radius. Iron Will fixes one of the biggest mistakes beginners can do.
But overall, it just allows to evade more efficiently. Other perks do that, some even better (Lucky break, quick and quiet, Boon: Shadowstep). But they require playing around it.
A Perk like Iron Will will ALWAYS be either trash, or see high pickrates. Just like self care. You can't balance it because it will always be attractive.
Developers, in general, should aim at making perks balanced, rather than aim at stopping survivors for playing a perk just because too many play it.
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Developers, in general, should aim at making perks balanced, rather than aim at stopping survivors for playing a perk just because too many play it.
This.
There's reasons perks like Self Care are used so much, it's because it fixes a game play issue for solo queue that no other single perk will do as effectively.
Iron Will is another perk that is the only perk that does what it does. If Iron Will was nerfed, but another perk that made you silent was buffed, it would be a different story.
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I'm not under the impression that Iron Will was buffed because of Spirit. They said it was to make the modifier math consistent. It probably had some special code that they wanted to internally clean up and it had an outward effect on the game.
They probably thought, "This won't be that big of a deal." Then they saw it affected pick rates to a large extent.
I think the nerf will mostly kill the perk and it seems a bit extreme since Iron Will was mostly useless outside of tier 3 (similar to Whispers), but I guess they'll find that out when they see the usage rate plummet? If they wanted to make you not completely silent, but also not completely useless, I'd probably guess 70/80/90 would be better numbers.
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If they had made it so survivors breathe normally while injured with IW instead, I would’ve been fine with that. Because that at least gives you something.
Also I didn’t say it was THE biggest downside of being injured, it’s just one of them. No Mither is obviously terrible.
Yes the game needs diversity. But as long as IW remained unchanged you would never see hardly any diversity in perks in that department other than maybe the occasional Lucky Break.
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If they had made it so survivors breathe normally while injured with IW instead, I would’ve been fine with that. Because that at least gives you something.Yes, that wouldve been a fair change. Not really a big nerf but at least you wouldn't be stealthier when injured.
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There should be another perk that makes you silent and gives you something. Maybe Lucky Break could make you silent and if you get hit, then you get the other benefits like normal. There really needs to be another perk that does what IW does.
I wouldn't mind the developers getting rid of IW and put it on several other stealth perks. Maybe Lucky Break, Parental Guidance and other stealth perks. That way you can choose why flavor of IW you get.
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