General Discussions
General Discussions
The nerfed Speed boost and Attack cooldown Decrease makes me worried.
Comments
-
Good luck getting a hook trade now on someone who has 8 stacks of STBFL.
4 -
Why make rescues even more difficult? You know camping is an issue, and now it's even easier? People only hook trade to save someone before they die or reach the second stage of the sacrificial sequence. It's not something most want to do, and now that is made harder to achieve.
8 -
Yeah your stopping one gen while 3 others are zooming its 5 secs shaved off the gen still not worth kicking without kick perks
0 -
You know looping is really the best part about survivor gameplay right?
2 -
could just solve this by making unhooking someone faster, as in give it some more speed to exactly compensate for how much hit cooldown the killer has now, making it practically the same.
0 -
Ruin was already garbage and required another perk to make it not get deleted in 10 seconds. Nobody cares about ruin because almost nobody was using it.
The changes to Pop are absolutely brutal. Right now you pop a get at 50% and it goes to 25% progress. You just wasted 20 seconds of a survivor's time by spending 2 seconds. Kick a 50% generator after the change and you remove 11.6 seconds of progress by kicking a generator for 2 seconds. To put this into perspective: Imagine if DH were only giving a 0.5 seconds of endurance.
Meanwhile Survivors get 5 seconds of BT basekit. Killers get 2.5 % pop built in - which is a 90% nerf to how the perk works. So why isn't borrowed time base kit not 90% nerfed? Basekit borrowed time of 1.2 seconds would totally suck. That's what you're giving killers and it is a complete joke.
Killers are designed to fail. Why? Because pallet saves, flashlight blinds and body blocking the hook didnt get changed. If any one of those three things happen you lose a minimum of 20 seconds of progress. Does the killer get any compensation? No. Remember too that 1 second of the killer's time is worth 3x as much for survivors assuming one is being chased.
DBD should have some kind of base kit protection for killers after downing a survivor. It should be a mechanic that only functions if the survivors are ahead or equal to the killer's progress. In short if the number of hooks is less than or equal to the number of generators completed then the entity automatically block all pallets within 8m of where the survivor fell for 10 seconds; in addition the killer will be immune to flashlights during this time.
Can we have that instead of a 2.5% pop for kicking generators? Because what you gave killers is a complete joke.
1 -
It was fun, a long time ago. Not fun anymore since so many killers are antiloop now. Its more beneficial to run away from a loop to a dead zone, that's how strong antiloop powers are (at least in the hands of competent killer players). Most loops you can run max twice but somehow killer players seem to have forgotten how to run lots of loops to their benefit. These kind of good killer players are silently laughing at this update and will start to get 5 kills in a game.
0 -
except you are not meant to hook trade on someone who has 8 stacks of STBFL anyway.
0 -
And people like you who just shift W are why people just play Nurse and Blight. It's beyond stupid to mindless follow survivors when you can zoom right up to them.
It's a shame all killers dont have some kind of sprint they can use out of chase.
1 -
Its strange to hear Survivors main complain mainly about tunneling & camping. While Killers complain about body block, demands vault block...
2 -
Why do people complain about getting tunneled then?
0 -
I'm more concern of the changes not doing enough really for killer.
Killer changes are very safe. 2.5% for generator kicking is laughable. its too little of a number to make much difference. when a killer goes to kick a generator, they're at 0% efficiency in term of killing survivors. across 3 other survivors working on generators, its still net-negative to kick a generator.
tier 1 brutal strength is ineffective. 10% will not punish survivors for using pallets at all. they'll still link every pallet on the map with ease. 10% speed down and 10% cooldown is also really safe numbers that are unlikely to make killers more deadly in a chase.
On other hand, the survivor changes are extremely very impactful. Base-kit BT is pretty powerful effect. The meta perk BT grants 7% haste for 15 seconds after an unhook is pretty big as well. They also got off the record, a perk that grants 80 seconds of endurence. The perk as bonus also grants additional benefits in form of immunity to aura reading and Iron will for 80 seconds. Nothing in killer perk changes have as much impact as this.
Killer changes are extremely safe... while survivor changes are.... well... not safe at all.
1 -
Id say that on paper Bubba sounds fine, a killer being able to instadown when coming close, being able to hit multiple survivors when they happen to be in reach, breaking pallets while recieving a stun, hitting objects and revving too much causes a tantrum. Compared to a lot of killers, that's not too bad.
Untill you realize he can use this ability near hooked survivors, and that this ability basically ignores Endurance.
Bubba isn't a busted killer as a whole, but he certainly has one of the most busted mechanics currently in the game.
2 -
Play Killer. Else don't complain.
0 -
So ur one of those
I'm a Trickster main
0 -
Except the reverse is true.
The 2.5% was added to counter gentapping. Demanding a compensation for survivors working on multiple generators at the same time is ridiculous. Survivors do not win once the last generator is finished. The 2.5%(+increased kicking speed) is plenty to not only counter gentapping, but punish it. Over the course of 5 gens, yeah, kicking a gen isnt gonna be worth it, but when there is 1 gen left, that 2.5% instantly removes 2 seconds of progression. Excluding any secondary effects.
Then the kicking speed, while also making the kicking of generators faster, getting rid of pallets 10% faster might not sound like much, but on the grand scale, you'd remove 10% of the pallets for free compared to now. Then the 10% animation reduction, might not sound like much on every single instance, but over the course of 10 hits, that's an entire hit saved in terms of wasted time. Same for survivors gaining distance, that 10% might easily be the difference between reaching a pallet and dropping it, or being downed. 10% is not "safe". It's a huge amount.
Then you have survivors, well, the expected BT basekit was 12 seconds Endurance. Survivors only got 5. That's nothing. That 7% speedboost? Over the course of 15 seconds is barely noticeable, but noticeable enough so killers don't need to count. A survivor suddenly slowing down in speed out of nowhere? Endurance is over. For a patch that is supposed to counteract tunneling and camping, that's a very safe basekit mechanic. Off The Record is only unsafe in the EGC, the rest of the game, it's basically the "don't tunnel me, you'll regret it"-perk. And since gens were upped with 10 seconds, perks like Gift of Pain and Thana having their effects buffed very significantly (20% on 80 seconds makes a gen last 100 seconds. 22% on 90 seconds makes a gen last 115 seconds, that's a big difference).
Let alone that there is nothing done to combat camping, even though that was promised. Heck, with the longer generator speeds, but perks like deadlock significantly reducing the ability to actually finish generators, especially when not on Comms, makes camping quite powerful.
The only reason that makes me think that you think the changes for killers are safe and survivor changes are not, is because you expect the "balance" of the game to be 3 kills before gens are finished. If you go with the perspective that the game is supposed to end with 2 alive, 2 dead, on average, then you can see that your perspective is quite twisted. You would want survivors to have the capability of finishing 1 generator each before one of them dies. And you would want the killer to kill 1 survivor before gens are finished, preferably with 6 hooks total, 3 on 1(dead) and the remaining 3 spread out as 1-1-1 or 2-1-0. Since, for the sake of survivor gameplay, you're not supposed to tunnel whenever you can, they have implemented measures that make it easy for you to pick up chase with someone else. This is also the reason why DS was reduced to 3 seconds for no real reason, because that way you can pick up chase with someone else faster. That's not what it's going to be used for, but that is the intent.
So really, claiming it's amazing for survivors, when they get a huge nerf in terms of cooperation, and meh for killers when they are receiving the biggest buff in dbd history is pretty entitled.
5 -
- “Nobody used Ruin” is objectively wrong. It was the third or fourth most used perk at high MMR if you look at the perk usage chart the devs posted, something like 35% of high rank killers use it. It definitely won’t be used as much now though, it got nerfed pretty massively.
- 10 seconds extra base time on every generator is very significant. I’m not sure why you’re focussing on the 2.5% from kicks which is a side bonus to killers and not the 10 seconds which is much bigger by far. Just ask yourself how many times you’ve been moving toward a gen and it’s completed before you get there. With 10 extra seconds you’d reach all those gens in time.
6 -
yea thats why i uninstalled cause its getting nerfed to the ground.
0 -
I never complain about tunneling i love it its the camping thats boring for me.
0 -
If a Survivor runs in a str8 line after getting basic attacked it currently takes ~26.6 seconds to catch up to them, with these buffs it will take ~24 seconds. That is ~96 meters for just shift W. Not sure these buffs solve anything, but we will see! I am hopeful.
0 -
Depends, I think a killer tunneling ay five gens is cringe and I accept people complaining about it.
But I also know tunneling mid to late game is very necessary, and I hope most people understand it can be necessary.
0 -
You know what's funny? Despite those changes, blood lust is still going to be a thing lol.
4 -
Tier one should maybe still be a thing. but tier 2 and 3 can go
4 -
Just not reality. Otz tested killer changes with perks.
well, the expected BT basekit was 12 seconds Endurance. Survivors only got 5. That's nothing. That 7% speedboost? Over the course of 15 seconds is barely noticeable, but noticeable enough so killers don't need to count. A survivor suddenly slowing down in speed out of nowhere? Endurance is over. For a patch that is supposed to counteract tunneling and camping, that's a very safe basekit mechanic. Off The Record is only unsafe in the EGC, the rest of the game, it's basically the "don't tunnel me, you'll regret it
As I said, the changes on survivor to discourage camping and tunneling are really effective. BT is objectively stronger post-patch. Off the record grants endurance effect which discourages the killer to go after the survivor as they have to hit the survivor twice to down them as opposed to going after the unhooker who is injured.
Survivors only received two notable changes, but their changes are spot on.
The killer changes on other hand were suppose to increase their potency in the chase. Otz played pinhead and clown to test changes. He got like 5 hooks with pinhead. With clown, he got 2 hooks(9:46) within 5 generators. 2.5% generator regression is great. 10% on pallet breaks, recovery and speed boost loss are correct changes. but the numbers are too low, too safe numbers.
Maybe if the numbers were like all doubled, it would help more. At least they acknowledge the killers having poor chases and generator being a problem. silver lining i guess?
The most scary aspect of their dev update was that apparently, they said kill-rates are lower than expected. in case you aren't aware, The dev balance this game on 50% kill-rate, you know, 2 kills. lower than expected means that killer get less than two kills.
I assume they're talking about high MMR killer vs high MMR Survivor. it doesn't make too much sense for low MMR/weak survivors to be thrashing high MMR killer players.
Conclusively, as I said in my opening post. I was more concerned about the changes doing too little. I guess I was more correct than I wanted to be.
2 -
Oh no, you are not aware of the killrates. Look back on the introduction of the SBMM: "survivors will escape roughly 50% of their games, killers, well, a bit different, but they should be killing a bit more than half". The killrates posted were 2.2 kills on average. That killrate is lower than they expected, but still higher than 2. On average, since most killers can basically guarantee 1 kill, their average is 2.5(10/4) where survivors range from everyone dying and everyone escaping, so 2 on average (10/5). Also note that they didn't mention that the escaperates for individual survivors were higher than expected. Which means that on a large scale, survivors were dying half the time on average. Normally you'd expect that number to be the same, but that is assuming both sides are being played equally. It's perfectly possible for the escaperates to be fine while killrates are not due to having disproportionate players.
As for Otz's builds, well, they weren't meta. I'd say that you should look at Dowsey this time, as Dowsey has been experimenting more with the new meta, where Otz has been trying out perks that would benefit from the speed changes in theory, but don't really.
Forced Penance with Thanatophobia alone slows down games massively. Add Pentimento to it, then Ruin or Call of Brine, and it's quite easy to guarantee kills. Just force a 3-gen around Ruin, Thana makes them want to cleanse it very early on, giving space for Pentimento, which slows the game down to 160 seconds for solo gens.
It's gonna be a bit of a boring meta if endurance remains stackable and the slowdown perks aren't adjusted
0 -
The changes are great and i love them! its gonna help m1 killers to catch up A BIT faster after the hit. This change counters Shift W which is amazing!
1 -
it's gonna be a bit of a boring meta if endurance remains stackable and the slowdown perks aren't adjusted
second chances and slowdown perks. sounds like something about dbd that never changes. I'm just saying base-kit wise, the game hasn't changed for either side.
0 -
basekit wise there is a lot of things that changed: if your teammate doesnt run BT, you still have some time to get out. There is a 11% basekit slowdown on gens. This gives quite a bit of time. The cooldown and animation speedups are going to be more significant than people think.
As for second chance perks, well, the other solution would be to make it impossible to hook the same survivor more than once in a row, which is extremely abusable. The second chance perks HAVE to be in the game. The slowdown perks dont neccesarily have to be in the game. In fact, my preferred basekit killer mechanic is -12% movement speed and -20% wiggle time if the killer is tunneling(based on the most recent survivor that has been unhooked), but +12% movementspeed if the killer isnt tunneling. So the best strategy would be to hook survivor a, then b, once survivor b has been unhooked, survivor A would be very easily put back on a hook. You can ignore conspicious actions for this, since in most cases, -12% and -20% are not really going to impact the ability to hook, it just slows you down a little bit. It also means that as long as you are slowed down, another survivor is on the hook, which also slows down the game. So it would be beneficial for you to hook someone else as it speeds up the ability to get back in chase. Which is what all other mechanics also are for. They dont really speed up a single chase, but they do make it faster for you to pick up the next chase.
0 -
if it's actually a problem, maybe it would be worth instead making killers fasting during the attack cooldown recovery. less strength in camping scenarios, but more distance making for actual chases?
0 -
" Just force a 3-gen around Ruin, Thana makes them want to cleanse it very early on, giving space for Pentimento, which slows the game down to 160 seconds for solo gens."
How are you supposed to force a 3-gen around Ruin when it vanished after the first kill? If you're down to 4 gens done but no kills yet the game's pretty much over, killer lost.
1 -
You literally ignored half of the comment. You force a 3 gen by patrolling the area, having Thana makes survivors want to cleanse it asap, which is a good thing, because then you can place Pentimento in its place. Since it's a 3 gen region, they would have to come to you. Thana slows them down even further and since you're patrolling the gens, they can't afford to keep healing. The more they heal, the more time you have to chase. If they stop healing, it takes 18 seconds to cleanse the totem. But since everyone is injured, your chases are going to be significantly shorter.
And creating a 3-gen isn't about losing 4 gens. It's about ensuring 3 specific gens do not get fixed. You can create a 3-gen when there are 5 gens remaining.
0 -
U can still trade hooks, the reduced cooldown is barely 2 stacks of Save the Best for Last, the perk itself goes up to 8, so the change helps, but not as much as ur worried.
I feel the changes are a way to make M1 killers a liiiiitle bit more viable overall. The state they are in rn is not amazing tbh
0 -
I mean you can do that currently in current live servers. Am I missing something? I never seen anyone really use hex:pento or call of brine outside of meme streamer youtube videos. thano is pretty much only used on legion, so its more of legion buff rather than anything else. he's apparently perceived as weak or something.
0 -
Well, yeah, but you can do that through different reasons. Right now you can do it through Ruin alone as Ruin grants 200% regression. Call of Brine sucks right now because of Pop, Ruin and Pain Resonance literally doing everything Call of Brine can do, except better. Pentimento is quite good, but you'd have to get rid of totems through some means. But even with all the current perks, because gens "only" take 80 seconds, you could work on 2 at the same time if 1 survivor is dead, then have one at 80% after Pain Res, unhook the hooked surv asap while another is being chased, go back to the gen that is now at 70% and finish it before the killer can pull another Pain Res, even if you have current Thana or Pentimento applied.
After the changes, you would be at 70%, then have that drop to about 66% if Ruin is still active, and Thana or Pentimento is powerful enough on its own to prevent that generator from reaching 100%, because it has 10 charges more.
As for Legion, well, he's not really weak, especially not after his rework. There are some maps that he currently underperforms on, but that's more a map issue than his design issue. Most veteran players actually tend to put Legion on the top of C-tier(which by any means, cant be called weak) or the bottom of B-tier. "weak" killers are killers who are stuck in D-tier. C-tier and up are more than viable enough to not need any buffs.
0 -
it's a joke even the worst killer players deserve free kills if they can hold W and left click apparently, then people complain about survivors holding W
0 -
If you have to bloodlust everyone to get downs, you're only getting a kill if a.) survivors don't know what gens are or b.) you're Bubba.
Bloodlust takes so much time to activate that you've pretty much lost the chase anyway, even when you do get the hit. It's a patch mechanic for unbalanced loops and window chains. NOED was far more of a "free kills for bad killers" mechanic than bloodlust ever was, and that one did get a nerf this go-around.
0 -
I am worried about panzer survivors tanking 3-5 hits on a Chase
1 -
panzermensch for days
0 -
in 3 generator strategies, the way survivors counter-play 3 generator strategies go on 2 further generators and progress the generator until the killer comes close to the survivor. if they hit the survivor, survivors can sprint burst away and heal. the killer cannot follow because the other survivors would be able to progress the other generator. the chase for the killer takes too long.
overall gameplay loop for survivor in 3 generator is progress gens->get hit->heal, repeat till all generator are done. this works because when survivor progress a generator, say even 25%, in 80 sec gen, these 20 seconds of progress take 80 seconds to regress. 80 sec is eternity in dbd terms. survivor can keep progressing the generator while the killer at base-kit regress at 400% speed.
conclusively, you can progress like 25% of generator, get hit, heal and even if the killer kicks a generator, the generator will not regress very much, maybe it will be at 20%(as said this is 400% slower regress than 1 survivor progressing generators). you can just keep doing this until you get to 100% generator progression. it doesn't matter for how long generator take, just that the killer does not regress them faster than the survivor progresses them.
i'm not sure how thano or hex:penti have anything to do with 3 gens. the generator could take 100 seconds and this dynamic for 3 gens would not change. it would just take longer break 3 gen, but 3 gen would be broken just by progression vs regression values. Pop also does not matter because pop requires hooks and there are no hooks in this gameplay. Ruin matters, but its hex totem, meaning it can be broken. Ruin is dying anyway next patch so you won't have to worry about it.
new overcharge and call of brine are over-time regression perks and these perks unlike pop do not require a hook, so yes these perks might create 3 gen scenarios where killer regress faster than survivor progress. call of brine is pretty slow regression and I don't really see this perk at all currently. Overcharge is only perk I'm worried about in new chapter patch for killer. it does take 30 seconds for regress to reach 400% but its still 400% regression which is a lot in regards to 3 gen killer gameplay. I guess we'll just have to see effectiveness of this. if 3 gen overcharge is as effective as I imagine it to be, than the perk will just get nerfed probably. Likely to take say 45-60 seconds to get 400% regression.
this gameplay for survivor in regards 3 gens is incredibly boring. its not effective at all for killer. the killer will lose. it just that it takes a while for killer to lose. Just extends the game for no reason at all. I'm not sure how a killer could play matches like this because its also very boring for the killer. Hostage 3 generator gameplay as killer is almost as boring as insidious basement bubba for me personally.
0 -
I've mentioned this many times, if they want less camping they should absolutely buff time on hook to 80 seconds. It makes sense now that gens take longer.
If chases really are finished faster, and gens are slower, killers now have time to go for more chases, so camping won't be as much of a necessity to win against the strongest survivors.
1 -
Currently, hooks take TWO MINUTES to perform a sacrifice. Each stage takes 60 seconds. Are you suggesting 80 second hook stages for a total time of 1 minute and 40 seconds??
0
