The problem with NOED [RANT]

@TeambossFloze said:
I applaud you for at least making an insightful well thought out post. Better than the usual tripe on here likg OMG NOED IS FOR NOOBS WTFBBQ!? - so kudos there. My only issue really is this generalised lambasting of people who choose to use a perk and being derogatory because of it. NOED in my opinion is easily countered and If dealt with cleverly isn't that much of an issue, just because it forces survives to maybe think twice about using their crutch perks and go for something different like Small Game. Talk to me about a perk that is uncounterable and lets discuss that instead.

Deadhard, DS, Balanced landing I suppose. Although Enduring counters DS, some killers don't run that perk. So its just a dice roll to see if the survivor can effectively use the perk to shift the chase. As for Deadhard and balanced landing they're just something you need to expect. I don't really see a counter to it but i could be wrong.

@TeambossFloze said:

@FireHazard said:

@TeambossFloze said:
I applaud you for at least making an insightful well thought out post. Better than the usual tripe on here likg OMG NOED IS FOR NOOBS WTFBBQ!? - so kudos there. My only issue really is this generalised lambasting of people who choose to use a perk and being derogatory because of it. NOED in my opinion is easily countered and If dealt with cleverly isn't that much of an issue, just because it forces survives to maybe think twice about using their crutch perks and go for something different like Small Game. Talk to me about a perk that is uncounterable and lets discuss that instead.

Deadhard, DS, Balanced landing I suppose. Although Enduring counters DS, some killers don't run that perk. So its just a dice roll to see if the survivor can effectively use the perk to shift the chase. As for Deadhard and balanced landing they're just something you need to expect. I don't really see a counter to it but i could be wrong.

Deadhard isn't an issue I don't think if the killer is patient enough to bait it out. Frenzy on Legion is pretty good for it, Doctor, Huntress ...although you have to have a pretty good bit of accuracy. Balanced landing...well I don't think there is any "particular" killer perk to counter...but I mean...how often is it used these days? I think its almost like the lottery of running Calm Spirit on the chance you may come up against a Doc or Slippery meat/small game for trapper etc..there is an element of chance for any perk that isn't a crutch one..but that only adds to the excitement for me. I ran Calm spirit for 8 matches straight just to stick it to a Doc main...didn't come across one...took it off ...next match..you guessed it..bloody Doc.

Its more common than you think actually, the round I was just in a few minutes ago has 2 people with balanced landing. Even sprint burst is not that uncommon to find, it just depends on what survivor you're facing and their play style really.

As for the two example you put, things like that usually happen to me also when i'm thinking of a counter for a specific killer. Where I make one up, and never come across said killer for like 5+ matches. unfortunately I'd assume that happens to most of us anyways.

@TeambossFloze said:

@FireHazard said:

@TeambossFloze said:

@FireHazard said:

@TeambossFloze said:
I applaud you for at least making an insightful well thought out post. Better than the usual tripe on here likg OMG NOED IS FOR NOOBS WTFBBQ!? - so kudos there. My only issue really is this generalised lambasting of people who choose to use a perk and being derogatory because of it. NOED in my opinion is easily countered and If dealt with cleverly isn't that much of an issue, just because it forces survives to maybe think twice about using their crutch perks and go for something different like Small Game. Talk to me about a perk that is uncounterable and lets discuss that instead.

Deadhard, DS, Balanced landing I suppose. Although Enduring counters DS, some killers don't run that perk. So its just a dice roll to see if the survivor can effectively use the perk to shift the chase. As for Deadhard and balanced landing they're just something you need to expect. I don't really see a counter to it but i could be wrong.

Deadhard isn't an issue I don't think if the killer is patient enough to bait it out. Frenzy on Legion is pretty good for it, Doctor, Huntress ...although you have to have a pretty good bit of accuracy. Balanced landing...well I don't think there is any "particular" killer perk to counter...but I mean...how often is it used these days? I think its almost like the lottery of running Calm Spirit on the chance you may come up against a Doc or Slippery meat/small game for trapper etc..there is an element of chance for any perk that isn't a crutch one..but that only adds to the excitement for me. I ran Calm spirit for 8 matches straight just to stick it to a Doc main...didn't come across one...took it off ...next match..you guessed it..bloody Doc.

Its more common than you think actually, the round I was just in a few minutes ago has 2 people with balanced landing. Even sprint burst is not that uncommon to find, it just depends on what survivor you're facing and their play style really.

As for the two example you put, things like that usually happen to me also when i'm thinking of a counter for a specific killer. Where I make one up, and never come across said killer for like 5+ matches. unfortunately I'd assume that happens to most of us anyways.

I do agree, I don't tend to see many Balanced landings myself - we can only go by what we see ourselves. Personally I'd run Small Game perk and just get them 5 totems then guaranteed NOED is gone. I think NOED is selected 75%? of the time or something? so it would make to be a pretty solid pick I think.

That or you can also use a map which is surprisingly helpful, it usually grabs any nearby totems you walk past so even if you miss one you can go open the map to go right back to said totem.

@ToxicFengM1n said:
wait, going off-topic here
I have several questions!

I'm not following, am I missing something here?

@NeoVid said:
NOED is a perk made for players who are expecting to do badly so they can salvage a game at the last moment. I don't think that's an especially bad thing, it basically makes it the killer counterpart to Decisive Strike.

Someone read the post for once. Yes its good for bad players and killers that need it which is OK. I consider it not OK if you for example you use nurse with NOED on top of bloodwarden and remember me. Its literal overkill ESPECIALLY if you already dominated the team before the last gen was even finished.

If you have all that to aid in your 4k it shows you're pretty sweaty for every possible kill. It seems a lot of people are just skimming through the post and leaving regurgitated comments.

@Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
I run NOED on almost all killers, even ones with instant down attacks like LF and Myers. Why? Just for end game shenanigans. I rarely even have to use it because most games are either 4k or hatch escape. But it’s nice to know that it’s possibly there. 

Theres a real simple way to avoid it. Cleanse the damn totems. I’m almost to the point of putting Detectives Hunch back on because my
random teammates refuse to do totems. Can’t count the amount of times recently that I’ve literally cleansed four totems and the killer has NOED because no one else could do one totem. At that point why would I blame the killer, it’s the survivors fault.

Yes, it is your teammates fault for not helping with getting rid of all the totems before they proc. Yet some entitled survivors still feel its OK to bash the team even though we all know you're dead on hook if NOEDs active.

Unless you get lucky and find it which rarely happens in my matches.

@CyanideCandy said:

@FireHazard said:

@NeoVid said:
NOED is a perk made for players who are expecting to do badly so they can salvage a game at the last moment. I don't think that's an especially bad thing, it basically makes it the killer counterpart to Decisive Strike.

Someone read the post for once. Yes its good for bad players and killers that need it which is OK. I consider it not OK if you for example you use nurse with NOED on top of bloodwarden and remember me. Its literal overkill ESPECIALLY if you already dominated the team before the last gen was even finished.

If you have all that to aid in your 4k it shows you're pretty sweaty for every possible kill. It seems a lot of people are just skimming through the post and leaving regurgitated comments.

Did you read my post by any chance? Because I did read your post all the way through and you didn't comment on mine like you have on quite a few others' responses. It's on the first page, close to the bottom if you missed it. I honestly want to know if you saw it at all. I hope you did since you've commented so many times on the post since then.TL/DR, my and a few people's problem with your post isn't even about your opinion on the perk but instead on you encouraging people to be toxic and treat each-other poorly because you don't like a perk they use.

You edited that part out and added a few exceptions and a comment at the end about the perk breeding toxicity when used by people who you believe don't need it, but your motivation is still clear as day in the post. You're not suggesting a change, you're not encouraging people not to rely on the perk or trying to suggest a more skillful alternative to them. You're calling them a noob, toxic, and in the way you typed the post the first time before rewording almost all of it, you called them garbage too. You're whining, and this entire post doesn't do anything besides add to the toxicity that you're blaming on killers using no-ed. Chastising people for playing in a way you don't like IS toxic.

I've tried to re-read all of your original post, the edited version, and even my own original comment before I typed this, but I check the forums when I'm about to go to bed, so as before I'm tired. If I'm missing something here, please feel free to tell me.

The main post was re-worked because in a previous comment I stated it was created out of salt and anger.

I agree that the original post was also hypocritical at stating the perk breeds toxicity while also being toxic myself. The main idea of the post itself was to just rant about its existence and how certain individuals use the perk knowing full well its overkill on certain characters that do not need it.

Its like for example putting it on nurse, if you're already so good at demolishing the team why would you also need NOED on top of that? To rub salt in the wound or something? And before you say the [Insert just cleanse every dull totem] meme i'm FULLY aware of this... The perk itself is fine in the hands of those who really need it against better players, and killers that need to to apply some pressure end game since they couldn't at the start of middle of it.

I just consider it not to be ok when its used by people who clearly don't need it on killers that never SHOULD use it.

@CyanideCandy said:

@FireHazard said:

@CyanideCandy said:

@FireHazard said:

@NeoVid said:
NOED is a perk made for players who are expecting to do badly so they can salvage a game at the last moment. I don't think that's an especially bad thing, it basically makes it the killer counterpart to Decisive Strike.

Someone read the post for once. Yes its good for bad players and killers that need it which is OK. I consider it not OK if you for example you use nurse with NOED on top of bloodwarden and remember me. Its literal overkill ESPECIALLY if you already dominated the team before the last gen was even finished.

If you have all that to aid in your 4k it shows you're pretty sweaty for every possible kill. It seems a lot of people are just skimming through the post and leaving regurgitated comments.

Did you read my post by any chance? Because I did read your post all the way through and you didn't comment on mine like you have on quite a few others' responses. It's on the first page, close to the bottom if you missed it. I honestly want to know if you saw it at all. I hope you did since you've commented so many times on the post since then.TL/DR, my and a few people's problem with your post isn't even about your opinion on the perk but instead on you encouraging people to be toxic and treat each-other poorly because you don't like a perk they use.

You edited that part out and added a few exceptions and a comment at the end about the perk breeding toxicity when used by people who you believe don't need it, but your motivation is still clear as day in the post. You're not suggesting a change, you're not encouraging people not to rely on the perk or trying to suggest a more skillful alternative to them. You're calling them a noob, toxic, and in the way you typed the post the first time before rewording almost all of it, you called them garbage too. You're whining, and this entire post doesn't do anything besides add to the toxicity that you're blaming on killers using no-ed. Chastising people for playing in a way you don't like IS toxic.

I've tried to re-read all of your original post, the edited version, and even my own original comment before I typed this, but I check the forums when I'm about to go to bed, so as before I'm tired. If I'm missing something here, please feel free to tell me.

The main post was re-worked because in a previous comment I stated it was created out of salt and anger.

I agree that the original post was also hypocritical at stating the perk breeds toxicity while also being toxic myself. The main idea of the post itself was to just rant about its existence and how certain individuals use the perk knowing full well its overkill on certain characters that do not need it.

Its like for example putting it on nurse, if you're already so good at demolishing the team why would you also need NOED on top of that? To rub salt in the wound or something? And before you say the [Insert just cleanse every dull totem] meme i'm FULLY aware of this... The perk itself is fine in the hands of those who really need it against better players, and killers that need to to apply some pressure end game since they couldn't at the start of middle of it.

I just consider it not to be ok when its used by people who clearly don't need it on killers that never SHOULD use it.

What is it that makes you so sure they don't need it? I get what you're implying but here's the problem. You may not think a hillybilly or a myers or so on need the perk and that it's overkill, but the killer may not think so. Just because they had a good match and no-ed popped at the end and gave them the last 2 kills doesn't mean EVERY match goes that well. For all you know, that killer might ordinarily get absolutely thrashed and just have had a good match this time. Or they just have the perk because they expect all the generators to pop before they can even get more than a handful of hooks.
With how fast they do pop why WOULDN'T you want to use a perk that gives you a chance to still get some kills? There's no way to know how a match is going to go before you're in it and if most killers get the same experience I have then they've had days where it's just back to back 4 man swf groups kitted out to the gills with every advantage they can get. I've more than once had a 4 man P3 claudette group where they ALL had decisive strike, one had a flashlight, another had a map and the other two had purple toolboxes.
Do you have a problem with perks like Franklin's demise if I ran it to deal with that? Nurse's calling because it doesn't let you heal willy nilly close to the killer? What about ruin? Most killers put a perk in their setup because they believe it's needed for one reason or another, and frankly with the prove thyself changes, I'd be more surprised if people did NOT start using post gen pop builds. It'd be stupid not to prepare for that outcome when the majority of matches, especially in high rank, the gens are done in under 5 minutes.
I won't sit here and pretend some people don't rely on no-ed too much and maybe should work on their skills, but at the end of the day using it alone doesn't dictate whether you're good or bad at the game. I've had no-ed on some of my builds because I just don't feel like being treated like a joke after the gens are finished, getting tea-bagged until I force them out.
Nothing you suggested or I did applies to every killer playing what you think should never use the perk in every match. You just assume it does and post about how much of a noob they are.

Don't you think if a killers getting 4k every match (for example) and still uses post-gen perks to make sure the team dies is not overkill? Or to the very least makes them look like an ass? When I say "noob" i'm really referring to them intentionally being toxic, and as such should be made fun of for it.

Of course they have the right to use any perks they want its their character, does that justify what they're doing though? No not really. Like for example, do you really need to punch someone in the face because they were being rude to you? You had the option to... but still choose not to because it wasn't the right way to handle the situation. In someones mind it may be, but in reality its not because it can bring on consequences.

If you assume its OK to play a 5 blink nurse for example while having blood warden, NOED, Remember me, and Ruin then somethings wrong here lmao.

@Orion said:

@FireHazard said:
Of course they have the right to use any perks they want its their character, does that justify what they're doing though? No not really.

Yes, it absolutely [BAD WORD] does. Who are you to tell someone else how to play the game they bought? Who are you to tell someone else which parts of the game they bought they're "allowed" to use? As long as they don't break the rules, they're justified in doing whatever they want, because that's the product they paid for. Who are you to say otherwise?

So what you're saying is, since I bought the game I can be an ######### to everyone I come across and be utterly toxic? And theirs justification for it? Sounds amazing.

@Orion said:

@FireHazard said:

@Orion said:

@FireHazard said:

@Orion said:

@FireHazard said:
Of course they have the right to use any perks they want its their character, does that justify what they're doing though? No not really.

Yes, it absolutely [BAD WORD] does. Who are you to tell someone else how to play the game they bought? Who are you to tell someone else which parts of the game they bought they're "allowed" to use? As long as they don't break the rules, they're justified in doing whatever they want, because that's the product they paid for. Who are you to say otherwise?

So what you're saying is, since I bought the game I can be an [BAD WORD] to everyone I come across and be utterly toxic? And theirs justification for it? Sounds amazing.

You'd be breaking the rules, so no. I should've known I should've added "as long as they don't break the rules" to every single point, just so you couldn't pretend you didn't read it.

No I read it, what you're clearly saying is if I wanted to I can be a knob to everyone I come across and just because I bought the game that will justify what i'm doing. The same can be said to people who know they don't need NOED but use it anyways despite it being obvious in the match that they don't.

I know that point flys past most your heads, but that's what the rants implying here. Idc if you're a rank 20 using it, or if you're a Freddy who uses it, or what have you. I care only when its on killers that DON'T need it but still have it on them because the killer knows it makes the survivors angry.

That's not what I said, so no, you either didn't read it or just didn't understand it. I don't know why you're pretending you did both.

Clearly I did since its calling out your point. "Who are you to tell someone else how to play the game they bought?" I don't I guess, I can't call out people who are being clearly toxic. I have no right to say that, I should just be a good boy and get demolished by a clearly broken build.