How to Fix the Camping / Tunneling Issue

@Master said:
How long will the survivor be on the hook until they lose another life?

What happens to all the mechanic designed for camping, take leatherface or insidious for example?

There is no time limit for losing another life. There is no struggle phase either. The player on the hook either has to wait until another survivor frees them or they manage to struggle free. The first attempt to struggle free has a base chance of 0% success and each attempt after increases the chance by 1%. Each attempt would take approximately 4 seconds. If no one rescues the survivor they would eventually get themselves free. There is a random factor here, but on average it would take around a minute to free themselves. Most of the time they would be rescued before that point.

Leatherface could continue being Leatherface. He doesn't HAVE to camp to be relevant. There would be no change to insidious either. The killer can stand still and have no terror radius any time they want. Camp a gen, camp an exit gate, camp a chest, camp a high traffic point, whatever. Is it a smart strategy? No.

@DemonDaddy said:
Yeah that idea sounds like a completely diferrent mode of play, one that only pressures the killer more with time management. Also think survivors should stick with the current 1 life, only granting additional chances with smart play. Getting found is as much a factor in this as having teammates deterred from a save.

It would probably be smart to introduce it as an alternate game mode. Give players time to adjust to the idea and work out any balance issues. It would be a massive change. No doubt about it.

@AlexAnarchy said:
Camping and tunneling are not against the rules, thus not an issue that needs fixing, get over it.

You're funny. According to the million or so posts crying about camping and tunneling on the forums it is an issue. Yes. I fully realize that camping and tunneling isn't "against the rules". I've done my share of both. And probably a few other people's share as well. But I try not to be "that guy" anymore. The majority of my games are as a killer, but I've played enough as a survivor to recognize how obnoxious the playstyle is.

It just isn't fun for survivors. Since 80% of the players in a given game are survivors if they aren't having fun then the long term health of the game is in jeopardy. Since camping is the #1 issue survivors have and tunneling is the #2 issue survivors have then addressing those issues is a good idea. And it isn't like I haven't considered the position of killers. The time survivors spend in the ghost world in addition to the time it takes to get off the hook and healed back up gives the killer time to actually chase and hunt. There are also a lot of different aspects to the system that can be tweaked if it proves to be too much in one sides favor.

@AlexAnarchy said:
Not against the rules, ofc survivors hate it cuz it makes them die and lose, Old News, survivors hate getting killed period.

Out of curiosity, did you even read my post or are you basing all your replies off the subject line alone? Because if you did then you would realize that I'm not saying that the killer should always lose and the survivors always win. I'm trying to recommend something this is fair to everyone. So if you think my idea is unfair, what specifically about it would be unfair?

@Ower said:

1st of all, welcome to the forums. Now let's address some of your responses.

There's nothing to fix. Camping and Tunneling are already punished by allowing your teammates to freely do objectives and\or escape. killers are also further punished by poor points\bp and likely De-pip meaning you'll never rank up playing this way.

This is one of those fallacies that killer mains like to propagate. Killers camp for a reason. It works. If camping and tunneling was naturally punished by survivors pushing objectives unchallenged then killers wouldn't do it. And yet, killers continue to camp and tunnel. That says something doesn't it?

This post is 100% a survivor only player trying to make the game EZMOAD for survivors. You're not entitled to be unhooked, healed up and get another chance escape.

This is a comical assumption on your part. The vast majority of my game time is played as a killer. But unlike many players, I am able to look at the bigger picture.

@Orion said:

@Dreamnomad said:
This is one of those fallacies that killer mains like to propagate. Killers camp for a reason. It works. If camping and tunneling was naturally punished by survivors pushing objectives unchallenged then killers wouldn't do it. And yet, killers continue to camp and tunnel. That says something doesn't it?

Yes. It says that survivors aren't pushing objectives unchallenged. Instead, they try to force unhooks.

Unless we are talking about SWF then the survivors that were working on generators need to get off the generator and run half way across the map to verify whether the killer is camping or not. The survivor will need to spend a few seconds assessing whether they can safely get the unhook or not. Then the survivor will need to run halfway across the map again to get back on their generator.

All that time spent on a failed rescue attempt isn't punishing the killer at all. Giving up one or two generators for a secured kill is well worth it to the killer anyway just because of how snowbally this game is. All of this is assuming the survivors are willing to give up on each other for the larger strategic objectives. This is also depending on the hooked survivor not just suiciding on hook because they aren't having fun.

So again, I assert that killers camp for a reason. Because it works. The fairy tale that survivors can effectively punish a camping killer by pushing objectives is just that. A fairy tale. Even if the survivors are on board with that strategy, best case scenario the killer still kills two survivors and everyone gets horrible bloodpoints for the game.

@Orion said:

@Dreamnomad said:

@Orion said:

@Dreamnomad said:
This is one of those fallacies that killer mains like to propagate. Killers camp for a reason. It works. If camping and tunneling was naturally punished by survivors pushing objectives unchallenged then killers wouldn't do it. And yet, killers continue to camp and tunnel. That says something doesn't it?

Yes. It says that survivors aren't pushing objectives unchallenged. Instead, they try to force unhooks.

Unless we are talking about SWF then the survivors that were working on generators need to get off the generator and run half way across the map to verify whether the killer is camping or not. The survivor will need to spend a few seconds assessing whether they can safely get the unhook or not. Then the survivor will need to run halfway across the map again to get back on their generator.

All that time spent on a failed rescue attempt isn't punishing the killer at all. Giving up one or two generators for a secured kill is well worth it to the killer anyway just because of how snowbally this game is. All of this is assuming the survivors are willing to give up on each other for the larger strategic objectives. This is also depending on the hooked survivor not just suiciding on hook because they aren't having fun.

So again, I assert that killers camp for a reason. Because it works. The fairy tale that survivors can effectively punish a camping killer by pushing objectives is just that. A fairy tale. Even if the survivors are on board with that strategy, best case scenario the killer still kills two survivors and everyone gets horrible bloodpoints for the game.

Camping takes two minutes to kill someone, not including the time spent on the chase, which can take up to 3 generators. If two more generators pop at that point, the killer gets one kill (if that, since there's always BT). If more than one survivor dies to camping, it's because they fed the camper. It's that simple.

Survivors suiciding on the hook is not relevant because it's still feeding.

Survivors are the ones who make camping worthwhile. They've always done so, hence the epidemic. Killers should not be punished for the survivors' bad decisions.

Lastly, if the killer gets two kills, then by the devs' definition, it's a balanced strategy.

That is exactly the fantasy that killer mains like to spread. The first four months that I played this game, I spent as a camping/tunneling killer. I'm talking literally hundreds of games of camping/tunneling. This is a subject that I have vasts amounts of experience in. This was when I didn't have all killers perks unlocked and at rank 3. And I still easily got and maintained rank 1 using this basic strategy. This was over a year ago when the game was much more difficult for killers as well. There have been many killer buffs and survivor nerfs in the last year.

Why did I do all that camping and tunneling? Because it worked. Pure and simple. This hypothetical scenario that the survivors would punish me just didn't happen. Or at the least it was unbelievably rare. So at the risk of repeating myself I say again that killers camp for a reason. If survivors are incapable of punishing killers for camping then there is no reason for killers to stop. It is obviously something that ruins the experience of the game for many players so it is a problem. One that can be solved fairly for both sides.

@DudeDelicious said:
Malicore said:

Camping and tunnelling are for scrub killers and desperate ones i main the nurse a hard killer and can still get 4k without those weak strategys and honestly Camping only helps them get more work done anyway it's foolish

There’s nothing scrubby about killers that choose to tunnel. It’s a valid and smart strategy. 

Yeah, it really isn't the killers fault that camping and tunneling are optimal strategies. Calling killers names for not following made up rules isn't fair.

@Orion said:

@Dreamnomad said:

@Orion said:

@Dreamnomad said:

@Orion said:

@Dreamnomad said:
This is one of those fallacies that killer mains like to propagate. Killers camp for a reason. It works. If camping and tunneling was naturally punished by survivors pushing objectives unchallenged then killers wouldn't do it. And yet, killers continue to camp and tunnel. That says something doesn't it?

Yes. It says that survivors aren't pushing objectives unchallenged. Instead, they try to force unhooks.

Unless we are talking about SWF then the survivors that were working on generators need to get off the generator and run half way across the map to verify whether the killer is camping or not. The survivor will need to spend a few seconds assessing whether they can safely get the unhook or not. Then the survivor will need to run halfway across the map again to get back on their generator.

All that time spent on a failed rescue attempt isn't punishing the killer at all. Giving up one or two generators for a secured kill is well worth it to the killer anyway just because of how snowbally this game is. All of this is assuming the survivors are willing to give up on each other for the larger strategic objectives. This is also depending on the hooked survivor not just suiciding on hook because they aren't having fun.

So again, I assert that killers camp for a reason. Because it works. The fairy tale that survivors can effectively punish a camping killer by pushing objectives is just that. A fairy tale. Even if the survivors are on board with that strategy, best case scenario the killer still kills two survivors and everyone gets horrible bloodpoints for the game.

Camping takes two minutes to kill someone, not including the time spent on the chase, which can take up to 3 generators. If two more generators pop at that point, the killer gets one kill (if that, since there's always BT). If more than one survivor dies to camping, it's because they fed the camper. It's that simple.

Survivors suiciding on the hook is not relevant because it's still feeding.

Survivors are the ones who make camping worthwhile. They've always done so, hence the epidemic. Killers should not be punished for the survivors' bad decisions.

Lastly, if the killer gets two kills, then by the devs' definition, it's a balanced strategy.

That is exactly the fantasy that killer mains like to spread. The first four months that I played this game, I spent as a camping/tunneling killer. I'm talking literally hundreds of games of camping/tunneling. This is a subject that I have vasts amounts of experience in. This was when I didn't have all killers perks unlocked and at rank 3. And I still easily got and maintained rank 1 using this basic strategy. This was over a year ago when the game was much more difficult for killers as well. There have been many killer buffs and survivor nerfs in the last year.

Why did I do all that camping and tunneling? Because it worked. Pure and simple. This hypothetical scenario that the survivors would punish me just didn't happen. Or at the least it was unbelievably rare. So at the risk of repeating myself I say again that killers camp for a reason. If survivors are incapable of punishing killers for camping then there is no reason for killers to stop. It is obviously something that ruins the experience of the game for many players so it is a problem. One that can be solved fairly for both sides.

Survivors are not incapable of punishing camping; they are unwilling to do so, period.

Allow me to present a different argument to you. You are saying that Camping is a survivor made problem. If survivors stopped feeding camping killers then killers wouldn't camp. Here is my counter argument. War is a human made problem. If humans just stopped fighting then there would be no war. Unlike your argument which is debatable anyway, mine is an inherently true statement.

Every human on the planet with the capacity to understand it knows it to be true. If we all want a world without war then we just have to stop fighting. It's so simple right? And yet even though we all know this to be true and the solution is so simple there will continue to be wars. Why is that? The answer is because the statement ignores all the complexities of the situation.

Just like your position ignores all the complexities of the game that we know as Dead By Daylight. There are a lot of variables that you simply choose to ignore because it is counter to your argument. It is not as simple as you make it out to be. Humans are no more able to end all wars than survivors are able to consistently punish killers for camping.

@Master said:

@Dreamnomad said:

@Orion said:

@Dreamnomad said:

@Orion said:

@Dreamnomad said:
This is one of those fallacies that killer mains like to propagate. Killers camp for a reason. It works. If camping and tunneling was naturally punished by survivors pushing objectives unchallenged then killers wouldn't do it. And yet, killers continue to camp and tunnel. That says something doesn't it?

Yes. It says that survivors aren't pushing objectives unchallenged. Instead, they try to force unhooks.

Unless we are talking about SWF then the survivors that were working on generators need to get off the generator and run half way across the map to verify whether the killer is camping or not. The survivor will need to spend a few seconds assessing whether they can safely get the unhook or not. Then the survivor will need to run halfway across the map again to get back on their generator.

All that time spent on a failed rescue attempt isn't punishing the killer at all. Giving up one or two generators for a secured kill is well worth it to the killer anyway just because of how snowbally this game is. All of this is assuming the survivors are willing to give up on each other for the larger strategic objectives. This is also depending on the hooked survivor not just suiciding on hook because they aren't having fun.

So again, I assert that killers camp for a reason. Because it works. The fairy tale that survivors can effectively punish a camping killer by pushing objectives is just that. A fairy tale. Even if the survivors are on board with that strategy, best case scenario the killer still kills two survivors and everyone gets horrible bloodpoints for the game.

Camping takes two minutes to kill someone, not including the time spent on the chase, which can take up to 3 generators. If two more generators pop at that point, the killer gets one kill (if that, since there's always BT). If more than one survivor dies to camping, it's because they fed the camper. It's that simple.

Survivors suiciding on the hook is not relevant because it's still feeding.

Survivors are the ones who make camping worthwhile. They've always done so, hence the epidemic. Killers should not be punished for the survivors' bad decisions.

Lastly, if the killer gets two kills, then by the devs' definition, it's a balanced strategy.

That is exactly the fantasy that killer mains like to spread. The first four months that I played this game, I spent as a camping/tunneling killer. I'm talking literally hundreds of games of camping/tunneling. This is a subject that I have vasts amounts of experience in. This was when I didn't have all killers perks unlocked and at rank 3. And I still easily got and maintained rank 1 using this basic strategy. This was over a year ago when the game was much more difficult for killers as well. There have been many killer buffs and survivor nerfs in the last year.

Why did I do all that camping and tunneling? Because it worked. Pure and simple. This hypothetical scenario that the survivors would punish me just didn't happen. Or at the least it was unbelievably rare. So at the risk of repeating myself I say again that killers camp for a reason. If survivors are incapable of punishing killers for camping then there is no reason for killers to stop. It is obviously something that ruins the experience of the game for many players so it is a problem. One that can be solved fairly for both sides.

Tunneling is just playing optimally, just like survivor tunnel gens.
camping is just a bad strategy, that you managed to climb to rank 1 with it shows how broken the ranking system is.

It doesn't matter what the ranking system is like when you can get 3-4 kills just about every game. Tunneling is optimal. I agree. You're wrong about camping being bad strategy though. The results are clear on that. It works. Pure and simple. It is a strategy that has been around since day 1 and is still widely used. Killers past the noob ranks wouldn't do it if it didn't work.