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So many anti-SWF posts

2

Comments

  • RWoodrow
    RWoodrow Member Posts: 270
    @JohnTed SWF=Survive With Friends
  • NathanExplosion
    NathanExplosion Member Posts: 337

    @SenzuDuck said:

    And so what if they "have trouble" killing them? I have trouble killing solo players too, why should killing be a cake walk and surviving be impossible?

    you're acting as if working for your kills should be abolished and it should all be handed to you, it's utterly ridiculous.

    ^

    And this, kids, is called a strawman :D

  • JohnTed
    JohnTed Member Posts: 56
    edited February 2019

    Killers have already had a ton of overpower perks. BBQ, Ruin,
    BBQ can also make killer earn more booldpoints. Comparing to We're Gonna Live Forever, it is totally insane to survivors.
    SWF is the only approach to raise up the survival rate. Killer is too easy in this game.

  • Unnamed_Freak
    Unnamed_Freak Member Posts: 570

    @JohnTed said:
    Killers have already had a ton of overpower perks. BBQ, Ruin,
    BBQ can also make killer earn more booldpoints. Comparing to We're Gonna Live Forever, it is totally insane to survivors.
    SWF is the only approach to raise up the survival rate. Killer is too easy in this game.

    Ruin overpowered? Sir, how long do you play this game?

  • Seanzu
    Seanzu Member Posts: 7,525

    @NathanExplosion said:

    @SenzuDuck said:

    And so what if they "have trouble" killing them? I have trouble killing solo players too, why should killing be a cake walk and surviving be impossible?

    you're acting as if working for your kills should be abolished and it should all be handed to you, it's utterly ridiculous.

    ^

    And this, kids, is called a strawman :D

    I wish you guys had anything useful to say.

    This guy is complaining he can't kill "good survivors". If they are good at juking etc, why should they be killed?

    You guys are so blind to your biases it's insane.

  • Hoodied
    Hoodied Member Posts: 13,022

    @Kamikaze_Rose said:
    We don't like Cheat With Friends as much as you don't like hearing about Cheat With Friends, so the way I see it, we're all even.  :|

    Survive with friends is somehow cheating okay...lets just ignore alert with detecting the killer

  • Hoodied
    Hoodied Member Posts: 13,022

    @Master said:
    Axelson said:

    You hate SWF or you think its overpowered? Just learn how to play Nurse or start playing Legion, i always get 3k vs swf with Legion (3k because always the guy on the hook suicide to let his team mate to take the hatch) and sometimes even 4k. You don't want to play neither Nurse or Legion? Then deal with them, but after don't cry in the forums. I think that they are the only killers that can stop try-hard SWF.

    Well in that case either swf needs to be nerfed or all other killers have to get buffed 

    Sounds like 60% of this community

  • Boss
    Boss Member Posts: 13,616
    edited February 2019

    @OrionsFury4789 said:
    Boss said:

    @RWoodrow said:

    Nickenzie said:

    DelsKibara said:

@Delfador said:

There are many very useful and beneficial threads but they get lost in this mess unfortunately.



I do know stuff like @Nickenzie 's threads gets washed up in a sea of complaints, when the stuff he has proposed would be amazing for the general QOL of the game.



I can't take all the credit, some of my ideas have been inspired by @weirdkid5 because I REAL feel like his suggestion will work to be honest!

SWF Changes:

Basically, we need two party queues for the solos and SWF. SWF cannot join solos queues and vice versa to keep things simple. Solos will have an easier time reaching their pip zone while SWF will have to do a little more to reach theirs because they are expected to do better with voice communication. The killer will be rewarded with more BP whenever they are going against a SWF to compensate for the potentially increased difficulty.

Done and queues will remain the same as normal because we aren't directly splitting the player base in half.

    @Nickenzie What would prevent survivors from re-queing into the solo que over and over again until they got into a room with their friends like they did prior to the introduction of the SWF option?

    When the game detects frequent lobby dodges with the ping in the yellow or green, it will start punishing them for continuously doing so.

    Yea but you're totally fine with the killers that dodge for items or being Claudette right?

    Wrong.
    Don't assume out of the blue.

  • JohnTed
    JohnTed Member Posts: 56

    @Unnamed_Freak said:

    @JohnTed said:
    Killers have already had a ton of overpower perks. BBQ, Ruin,
    BBQ can also make killer earn more booldpoints. Comparing to We're Gonna Live Forever, it is totally insane to survivors.
    SWF is the only approach to raise up the survival rate. Killer is too easy in this game.

    Ruin overpowered? Sir, how long do you play this game?

    2 years.
    It depends on LUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I am always unlucky. I just tried 1 time to demolish totem at start. Most of the time, we demolished the totem at the end of the game.

  • JohnTed
    JohnTed Member Posts: 56
    edited February 2019

    @JohnTed said:

    @Unnamed_Freak said:

    @JohnTed said:
    Killers have already had a ton of overpower perks. BBQ, Ruin,
    BBQ can also make killer earn more booldpoints. Comparing to We're Gonna Live Forever, it is totally insane to survivors.
    SWF is the only approach to raise up the survival rate. Killer is too easy in this game.

    Ruin overpowered? Sir, how long do you play this game?

    2 years, actually 110 hours in total.

    It depends on LUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I am always unlucky. I just tried 1 time to demolish totem at start. Most of the time, we demolished the totem at the end of the game.

  • Hoodied
    Hoodied Member Posts: 13,022

    @JohnTed said:

    @Unnamed_Freak said:

    @JohnTed said:
    Killers have already had a ton of overpower perks. BBQ, Ruin,
    BBQ can also make killer earn more booldpoints. Comparing to We're Gonna Live Forever, it is totally insane to survivors.
    SWF is the only approach to raise up the survival rate. Killer is too easy in this game.

    Ruin overpowered? Sir, how long do you play this game?

    2 years.
    It depends on LUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I am always unlucky. I just tried 1 time to demolish totem at start. Most of the time, we demolished the totem at the end of the game.

    Ruin is not op, to be honest, its pretty weak and perks like discordance and thanatophobia out rank it, cause they cannot to taken down by a totem destroyed in the first 2 seconds of the match, not luck, also ruin is countered by stake-out and gen tapping, its not worth bringing, and console players can hit great skill checks easily, believe me, being rank 3 survivor on xbox, I hit greats commonly

  • PiiFree
    PiiFree Member Posts: 1,154

    @JohnTed said:
    2 years, actually 110 hours in total.

    Then it's no surprise that you think Ruin is OP.

    I'll never stop saying this: Only bad Survivors are affected by Ruin.

  • Dwight_Fairfield
    Dwight_Fairfield Member Posts: 7,096
    KingB said:
    The more threads there are the more the devs will listen. Persistence is key. 
    Yes its worked wonders for all the whining about DS.
  • Hoodied
    Hoodied Member Posts: 13,022

    @Dwight_Fairfield said:
    KingB said:

    The more threads there are the more the devs will listen. Persistence is key. 

    Yes its worked wonders for all the whining about DS.

    yeah nothing changed

  • lindechene
    lindechene Member Posts: 76
    edited February 2019

    tldr Version:

    A difficult choice needs to be made.

    Continue to support SWF game modes but then introduce respawns or other game mechanics so everyone can play for the whole round. = No permanent deaths.

    or

    Come to the conclusion that this specific horror 4vs1 genre relies on the basic idea that a survivor can die. Therefore it would be best to just support queues for solo players for new game modes.

    There can not be enough threads about SWF.

    For me the most important points are:

    1) Everyone could play solo

    All individual SWF players would have the ability to queue up as solo players.
    If SWF would not be supported for some new game modes "reasonable" people interested enough in the core mechanics of the game would simply go back to queuing up solo.
    Some may leave to play something else with their friends but certainly not everyone.

    2) If solo players and killers continue to be driven away the queue times will become longer

    The ability to play with your friends in a 4vs1 game depends that there is still one person playing solo.
    4 SWF - 1 solo Killer
    2 SWF - 2 SWF - 1 solo Killer
    3 SWF - 1 solo Killer - 1 solo Survivor
    2 SWF - 1 solo Killer - 2 solo Survivor

    **3) SWF fosters toxicity when one friend dies first and has to watch for the rest of the game

    Solo players can simply queue up again. SWF players dying are forced to watch and wait for the rest of the match.
    Combining 4vs 1 and SWF could work in a less frustrating way when everyone would be able to continue playing until the end of the round. As long as the objective of Killers remains to kill Survivors and they have no way to respawn this frustration of having to watch your teammates finish the game without you cannot be solved.

    4) Without SWF different game modes could be introduced that shift the available objective when the first survivor dies

    Progress made on generators would carry over to the next phase and less parts would required to be gathered by the three remaining survivors. etc.
    Solo survivors would appreciate longer matches where they get a new chance to escape when the first survivor dies.
    SWF players do not want that because then they would even have to wait longer until the next game starts.

    5) Balancing around solo players

    It can not be helped that some random people will find ways to invite other survivors into audio chats from the lobby. But just because some people will find ways to trick the system the solution is not to simply create the whole game around those.

    The game could be balanced for random solo survivors teamed up in order to survive the challenges ahead.

    6) There are enough other games out there who are intended to be played with your friends.

    People who want to play with friends have a huge selection of games to choose from.
    People who want to queue up as solo players with random strangers have not much choice.
    The survival horror based core mechanics of DbD could work best without voice communication.

    It probably would not work to remove SWF from the current existing "generator repair" game mode available now.
    What could work is to insist on solo queues for new game modes in the future.

  • PinkEricka
    PinkEricka Member Posts: 1,042
    mintchapstick said:

    @PinkEricka said:
    @Nickenzie Two separate party queues was already discussed a long time ago though. It would cause long wait times for SWF because no killers would want to go against them. They’ll look out for people loading in together and just dodge, same as always.

    SWF isn’t that hard to beat. I’ve seen plenty of ######### SWF teams plenty of times. I’ve yet to see this full blown out death squad that’s here to embarrass the killer.

    Really? Because I'm only on my third week of playing killer and I've seen them multiple times. The new death squad is a squad with like 4 toolboxes and prove thyself.

    On topic: I used to really like SWF, but then my friends moved onto better games and I switched to playing killer and realized how [BAD WORD] up SWF is.

    @mintchapstick If you see 4 toolboxes, just dodge or bring FD. lol.
  • Master
    Master Member Posts: 10,200

    @JohnTed said:

    @Unnamed_Freak said:

    @JohnTed said:
    Killers have already had a ton of overpower perks. BBQ, Ruin,
    BBQ can also make killer earn more booldpoints. Comparing to We're Gonna Live Forever, it is totally insane to survivors.
    SWF is the only approach to raise up the survival rate. Killer is too easy in this game.

    Ruin overpowered? Sir, how long do you play this game?

    2 years.
    It depends on LUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I am always unlucky. I just tried 1 time to demolish totem at start. Most of the time, we demolished the totem at the end of the game.

    Ruin doesnt depend on luck at all.
    Its literally a git gud issue until you hit the skillchecks

  • Gorgonia
    Gorgonia Member Posts: 1,607
    Master said:

    @JohnTed said:

    @Unnamed_Freak said:

    @JohnTed said:
    Killers have already had a ton of overpower perks. BBQ, Ruin,
    BBQ can also make killer earn more booldpoints. Comparing to We're Gonna Live Forever, it is totally insane to survivors.
    SWF is the only approach to raise up the survival rate. Killer is too easy in this game.

    Ruin overpowered? Sir, how long do you play this game?

    2 years.
    It depends on LUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I am always unlucky. I just tried 1 time to demolish totem at start. Most of the time, we demolished the totem at the end of the game.

    Ruin doesnt depend on luck at all.
    Its literally a git gud issue until you hit the skillchecks

    It can be hard on PS4 but you will get there with practice
  • LCGaster
    LCGaster Member Posts: 3,154

    Killer main right here. I don't have any problem with SWF, except the toxicity

  • TheBean
    TheBean Member Posts: 2,320

    @lindechene said:
    Come to the conclusion that this specific horror 4vs1 genre relies on the basic idea that a survivor can die. Therefore it would be best to just support queues for solo players for new game modes.

    A game that gets voted "Best Played With Friends".. after 2 years of release.... Shouldn't be making game modes that support playing with Friends?... but should take another route to make queues only for solo players?

    The Devs have not yet, after 2 years, released any game mode into the game.

    @lindechene said:
    1) Everyone could play solo

    All individual SWF players would have the ability to queue up as solo players.
    If SWF would not be supported for some new game modes "reasonable" people interested enough in the core mechanics of the game would simply go back to queuing up solo.
    Some may leave to play something else with their friends but certainly not everyone.

    Do you have any idea the amount of the community that play SWF? I don't know.. but the last time they released that stat is was about half. Which has probably increased since then.

    Skipping point 2.. nothing to be said there.

    @lindechene said:
    **3) SWF fosters toxicity when one friend dies first and has to watch for the rest of the game

    Solo players can simply queue up again. SWF players dying are forced to watch and wait for the rest of the match.
    Combining 4vs 1 and SWF could work in a less frustrating way when everyone would be able to continue playing until the end of the round. As long as the objective of Killers remains to kill Survivors and they have no way to respawn this frustration of having to watch your teammates finish the game without you cannot be solved.

    Too bad for the SWF player. Who cares if the SWF player who was killed has to wait. That is the price you pay when playing SWF. Don't play SWF if that is an issue. Sometimes the rest of your SWF party will just bail out of the match. The SWF player can queue up as solo and play another match while they wait, or get a sandwich.

    @lindechene said:
    4) Without SWF different game modes could be introduced that shift the available objective when the first survivor dies

    Progress made on generators would carry over to the next phase and less parts would required to be gathered by the three remaining survivors. etc.
    Solo survivors would appreciate longer matches where they get a new chance to escape when the first survivor dies.
    SWF players do not want that because then they would even have to wait longer until the next game starts.

    Would be nice to get some game modes... but after 2 years, I doubt the Devs are going to do any of this. However when Dedicated Servers come in... Maybe... But I'm not holding my breath. However solo queues won't work, unless the Devs make it so players can't see who is in their lobbies. To prevent players from dodging lobbies until they get their friends.

    @lindechene said:
    5) Balancing around solo players

    It can not be helped that some random people will find ways to invite other survivors into audio chats from the lobby. But just because some people will find ways to trick the system the solution is not to simply create the whole game around those.

    The game could be balanced for random solo survivors teamed up in order to survive the challenges ahead.

    So balance around solo players because?... They can't communicate in the lobby chat or add other players during the match in Steam and give out discord information for VOIP.

    So balance around solo?... When you admit that people will find ways to circumvent the rules so they can be on VOIP.

    So why not balance around players who are on VOIP?... Then buff solo players?

    @lindechene said:
    6) There are enough other games out there who are intended to be played with your friends.

    People who want to play with friends have a huge selection of games to choose from.
    People who want to queue up as solo players with random strangers have not much choice.
    The survival horror based core mechanics of DbD could work best without voice communication.

    So bascially.. if you want to play with your friends... Then just play another game?... So push back on more then half the DBD community and stop them from playing with their friends? So kill the game basically?

    One from BHVR who shall remain nameless told people to play another game when they were feeling burned out on DBD... Look what happened there... Now you want the Devs to officially tell everyone, if you want to play with a friend... Go play another game. Yeah... OK.

    @lindechene said:
    It probably would not work to remove SWF from the current existing "generator repair" game mode available now.
    What could work is to insist on solo queues for new game modes in the future.

    Getting rid of SWF won't work. Having solo queue game modes would be ok, if they prevented players from seeing who was in your lobby to prevent survivors from lobby dodging.

    However when the game gets voted.. Best Played With Friends... I don't think the Devs will be taking the approach of excluding friends from DBD. In fact... I could see them embracing it more fully. If you playerbase says they enjoy playing with their friends... Then why would you kick them in the teeth and not make heir game revolve around it.

  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 13,671
    edited February 2019

    @Nickenzie said:
    DelsKibara said:

    @Delfador said:

    There are many very useful and beneficial threads but they get lost in this mess unfortunately.

    I do know stuff like @Nickenzie 's threads gets washed up in a sea of complaints, when the stuff he has proposed would be amazing for the general QOL of the game.

    I can't take all the credit, some of my ideas have been inspired by @weirdkid5 because I REAL feel like his suggestion will work to be honest!

    SWF Changes:

    Basically, we need two party queues for the solos and SWF. SWF cannot join solos queues and vice versa to keep things simple. Solos will have an easier time reaching their pip zone while SWF will have to do a little more to reach theirs because they are expected to do better with voice communication. The killer will be rewarded with more BP whenever they are going against a SWF to compensate for the potentially increased difficulty.

    Done and queues will remain the same as normal because we aren't directly splitting the player base in half.

    Can the killer choose whether they go into the SWF or Solo que's and are they both ranked?

  • Rebel_Raven
    Rebel_Raven Member Posts: 1,775
    edited February 2019
    DelsKibara said:

    @SenzuDuck said:
    Don't worry about it - all the decent killers who don't care are playing the game.

    It's only the bad ones on the forum complaining about it honestly.

    That is something I noticed as well in the Steam forums actually.
    People who often cry about SWF being a problem often don't have the Rank 10 Killer or Survivor Achievements.
    Like, we get that you are frustrated, but why are you complaining about a feature in the game when you haven't even played enough to get the Rank 10 achievements on both sides?

    If I had to guess, it's because people use SWF as a way to depip without having to actually depip like a killer has to.
    They aim for people who haven't even reached rank 10 for easier games. Easy games even easier. 
    This makes them way more common than in the people beyond 10.
    This makes it more difficult for people to get BP to get the arsenal people take for granted when facing SWF.
    I mean even good, or great killers struggle without the right perks against SWF. What happens when someone is just average without the right perks?

    And because SWF can abuse matchmaking to get easier games, people woefully under prepared continually have to vs people with stacked loadouts,  the advantage of voice comms (aka numerous free perks), coordinated maneuvers, and so forth.

    Iirc, currently 70 percent of lobbies have at the minimum, 2 man SWF.
    The game is not balanced for SWF, but SWF is extremely common. 

    I think frustration might be an understatement. 
  • MhhBurgers
    MhhBurgers Member Posts: 1,758

    @Kamikaze_Rose said:
    We don't like Cheat With Friends as much as you don't like hearing about Cheat With Friends, so the way I see it, we're all even.  :|

    I will stop complaining about SWF once we get a 2 killer mode, which will probably be never since BHVR doesn't seem to be able to code something that a mobile game did.

  • lindechene
    lindechene Member Posts: 76

    Do you have any idea the amount of the community that play SWF? I don't know.. but the last time they released that stat is was about half. Which has probably increased since then.

    It does not matter how big the part of the community is that is currently playing SWF.
    ALL of them can queue up solo.

    However solo queues won't work, unless the Devs make it so players can't see who is in their lobbies. To prevent players from dodging lobbies until they get their friends.

    This whole practice of dodging loobies to "find" your friends only worked when DbD was released because in the beginning the player base was very small.

    With dedicated servers there could be a simple solution to that as well:

    Every time people dodge a lobby their priority in matchmaking gets lowered and a penalty queue time is added.

    So bascially.. if you want to play with your friends... Then just play another game?... So push back on more then half the DBD community and stop them from playing with their friends? So kill the game basically?

    Again, every single one of the SWF players can continue to play the game solo.

    My impression is:

    For new solo survivors it is not fun to play this game because they are outmatched not only in skill but also in perks, addons offerings. Instead of feeling part of a team they are just there to fill the empty slot so SWF teams can then farm them or leave them on the hook to die while they finish their generators.

    For new killers it is not fun to play this game because voice communications give away the killer location at any time and defeat the whole threat of not knowing where the killer is.

    If more and more solo killers and survivors leave then surely this game will be dead.

    IF the veterans want this game to survive then they should finally acknowledge that without solo players this game can not work.

  • mintchapstick
    mintchapstick Member Posts: 891

    @PinkEricka said:
    @mintchapstick If you see 4 toolboxes, just dodge or bring FD. lol.

    I've only been playing killer for a couple of weeks,. I don't have FD & I try not to dodge lobbies because of the long wait for survivors, but.

  • NMCKE
    NMCKE Member Posts: 8,243
    RWoodrow said:
    Nickenzie said:
    DelsKibara said:

    @Delfador said:
    There are many very useful and beneficial threads but they get lost in this mess unfortunately.

    I do know stuff like @Nickenzie 's threads gets washed up in a sea of complaints, when the stuff he has proposed would be amazing for the general QOL of the game.

    I can't take all the credit, some of my ideas have been inspired by @weirdkid5 because I REAL feel like his suggestion will work to be honest!

    SWF Changes:

    Basically, we need two party queues for the solos and SWF. SWF cannot join solos queues and vice versa to keep things simple. Solos will have an easier time reaching their pip zone while SWF will have to do a little more to reach theirs because they are expected to do better with voice communication. The killer will be rewarded with more BP whenever they are going against a SWF to compensate for the potentially increased difficulty.

    Done and queues will remain the same as normal because we aren't directly splitting the player base in half.
    @Nickenzie What would prevent survivors from re-queing into the solo que over and over again until they got into a room with their friends like they did prior to the introduction of the SWF option?
    Increase re-queue times when you dodge or leave a lobby.

    First: 15 seconds
    Second: 30 seconds
    Third: 1 minute
    Fourth: 5 minutes
    Fifth: 10 minutes
    Etc etc etc...
  • NathanExplosion
    NathanExplosion Member Posts: 337
    edited February 2019

    @Nickenzie said:

    Increase re-queue times when you dodge or leave a lobby.

    First: 15 seconds
    Second: 30 seconds
    Third: 1 minute
    Fourth: 5 minutes
    Fifth: 10 minutes
    Etc etc etc...

    You know what ?

    I actually think it could be good to add this into the game.

    Really, with this at least, the last few peoples willing to play killer would finally stop playing, and the Devs will maybe finally do something.

  • fcc2014
    fcc2014 Member Posts: 4,388

    @mintchapstick said:

    @PinkEricka said:
    @mintchapstick If you see 4 toolboxes, just dodge or bring FD. lol.

    I've only been playing killer for a couple of weeks,. I don't have FD & I try not to dodge lobbies because of the long wait for survivors, but.

    You by not dodging are getting experience by playing all types. It sucks at first but you will get better because of it. You become more efficient as a killer.

  • M_A_R_K_23
    M_A_R_K_23 Member Posts: 1
    AlphaJackson said:

    At this point I've given up complaning about SWF if it's a 2-3 man, I'll just play normally, if it's a 4 man I'll whip out the trusty ol' Insidious LF with IG and Agitation. If you can't beat the toxcicity... join it.


    Just play more aware of team plays like body blocking, pallet stuns FL saves ect. No need to play basment bubba just because of swf. You'll never get better at your normal playstyle doing that. Also how is playing in a SWF group toxic? I understand players in swf can be or do toxic things but so can solos.

  • KingB
    KingB Member Posts: 747
    @fcc2014 I never said delete swf. I'm saying it's broken in its current state and killers stand little chance against co-coordinated swf groups. How about if players also git gud and stop relying on crutch perks and voice comms? 
  • AlwaysInAGoodShape
    AlwaysInAGoodShape Member Posts: 1,301
    edited February 2019

    @Gorgonia said:
    It is not actually cheating. You are not abusing a forbidden feature or an exploit.

    If we legalise everything, we no longer have to worry about criminals breaking the law (;

    Edit: In games like Town of Salem, they actually ban for using 3rd party software, and yes, they have a friend inviting system there too! The question is; would that be the right approach for DBD?

  • fcc2014
    fcc2014 Member Posts: 4,388

    @KingB said:
    @fcc2014 I never said delete swf. I'm saying it's broken in its current state and killers stand little chance against co-coordinated swf groups. How about if players also git gud and stop relying on crutch perks and voice comms? 

    those "crutch perks' and voice comms have been around for 2 years as have swf. Pretty sure they are not going anywhere. Adapt or Die. Play more killer and more variety of lobbies. Coordinated swf groups are fewer and far between than people want to admit.

  • Gorgonia
    Gorgonia Member Posts: 1,607
    AlwaysInAGoodShape said:

    @Gorgonia said:
    It is not actually cheating. You are not abusing a forbidden feature or an exploit.

    If we legalise everything, we no longer have to worry about criminals breaking the law (;

    Edit: In games like Town of Salem, they actually ban for using 3rd party software, and yes, they have a friend inviting system there too! The question is; would that be the right approach for DBD?

    You can make voice chats on your phone now
  • KingB
    KingB Member Posts: 747
    @fcc2014 That doesn't mean it's any less broken. They aren't and shouldn't be removed entirely. They should either be nerfed or killers should be given compensation to compete. If devs allow the imbalance to remain for so long wouldnt logic dictate people would want to avoid it eventually? Instead of worrying about lobby dodging we should worry about why people dodge the lobbies in the first place. 
  • fcc2014
    fcc2014 Member Posts: 4,388

    @KingB said:
    @fcc2014 That doesn't mean it's any less broken. They aren't and shouldn't be removed entirely. They should either be nerfed or killers should be given compensation to compete. If devs allow the imbalance to remain for so long wouldnt logic dictate people would want to avoid it eventually? Instead of worrying about lobby dodging we should worry about why people dodge the lobbies in the first place. 

    Solo players need to be buffed to swf as far as have access to the same amount of info and Killers need to be adjusted accordingly through Buff to perks, addons, offerings and even potentially additional perk slots or maybe have built in perks like NOED, Blood Warden, Monstrous Shrine. Players Lobby dodge for ridiculous reasons. When the game came out on PS4 in the first month I was P3 and could never wear it for months because i got dodged. I wasn't in swf. i just solo qued sometimes the first or second in and i got dodged. People dodge flashlights, toolboxes, medkits etc. Survivors dc when the killer burns a secret offering.

  • Poweas
    Poweas Member Posts: 5,873

    @AlphaJackson said:
    At this point I've given up complaning about SWF if it's a 2-3 man, I'll just play normally, if it's a 4 man I'll whip out the trusty ol' Insidious LF with IG and Agitation. If you can't beat the toxcicity... join it.

    What if it's not a toxic SWF but they just look toxic.

  • KingB
    KingB Member Posts: 747
    @fcc2014 I dont dent solo players are underpowered against killers. The scale of balance is 
    1. Swf
    2. Killers
    3. Solo survivors. 
    I'm a p3 david and facing rank 7ish killers I play swf (without comms) and rarely get dodged. Last night out of 5 games 1 we got dodged and 1 was a dc at the start. The other 3 were normal games. 
  • NMCKE
    NMCKE Member Posts: 8,243
    Rebel_Raven said:
    Nickenzie said:
    RWoodrow said:
    Nickenzie said:
    DelsKibara said:

    @Delfador said:
    There are many very useful and beneficial threads but they get lost in this mess unfortunately.

    I do know stuff like @Nickenzie 's threads gets washed up in a sea of complaints, when the stuff he has proposed would be amazing for the general QOL of the game.

    I can't take all the credit, some of my ideas have been inspired by @weirdkid5 because I REAL feel like his suggestion will work to be honest!

    SWF Changes:

    Basically, we need two party queues for the solos and SWF. SWF cannot join solos queues and vice versa to keep things simple. Solos will have an easier time reaching their pip zone while SWF will have to do a little more to reach theirs because they are expected to do better with voice communication. The killer will be rewarded with more BP whenever they are going against a SWF to compensate for the potentially increased difficulty.

    Done and queues will remain the same as normal because we aren't directly splitting the player base in half.
    @Nickenzie What would prevent survivors from re-queing into the solo que over and over again until they got into a room with their friends like they did prior to the introduction of the SWF option?
    Increase re-queue times when you dodge or leave a lobby.

    First: 15 seconds
    Second: 30 seconds
    Third: 1 minute
    Fourth: 5 minutes
    Fifth: 10 minutes
    Etc etc etc...
    Super! Punish me because I don't want to get curb stomped when I pop on for a few, hopefully fair games.

    Basically force me into mixed rank SWFs with a not even passable array of perks and addons so an SWF can feel oooh so accomplished when reds, purples, and greens stomp a casual.
    Huzzah.

    Let's punish everyone that just bought the game so they gotta face smurfs looking for easy games. 
    @Rebel_Raven
    Translation: (Histrionics => English)
    "Every SWF is a commando unit waiting to waste me including the SWF who just wanna chill with their friends. Furthermore, I'll get bullied by every SWF even through some of those games might be my fault due to my mistakes and not because they are a SWF. Nickenzie is a dirty tryhard sweaty survivor who wants smurfs to bully lower ranked players and want killers to suffer so he's also @SenzuDuck follower, ignore him!"

    To recap: (Unpopular opinion) Not every SWF is a commando unit so please stop with the exaggeration that every SWF is one. Furthermore, I lose on average 1 in 10 SWF games (depip) because the majority aren't the depip squad. Lastly, I obviously don't advocate smurfs to bully lower levels so please do not put words into my mouth. If you disagree, perhaps tell me some things you'll change to make it better instead of assuming the absolute worst about me.
  • DarkWo1f997
    DarkWo1f997 Member Posts: 1,532
    It’ll blow over eventually... probably... maybe... hopefully. 
  • Rebel_Raven
    Rebel_Raven Member Posts: 1,775
    edited February 2019
    @Nickenzie
    Continuing from my previous post:

    Hell, in addition, maybe we can make a way to sort how sweaty SWFs are?
    Maybe make am SWF badge/emblem?
    Survivors in SWF get a badge based on how quick the game goes, or how well they score, or both.
    It persists.

    This leads into a badge average. The killer can see this. If the badge average isn't appalling, they play. If it is, they dodge.
    Less dodging, and less odds of the killer getting mauled.

    Killers can get a badge based on their scores against SWFs, and it could become behind the scenes match making.

    Sure, SWFs would have to find some new way to bully low rank killers, but it would lead to more even matches.

  • Carpemortum
    Carpemortum Member Posts: 4,506
    Rebel_Raven said:
    Nickenzie said:
    Rebel_Raven said:
    Nickenzie said:
    RWoodrow said:
    Nickenzie said:
    DelsKibara said:

    @Delfador said:
    There are many very useful and beneficial threads but they get lost in this mess unfortunately.

    I do know stuff like @Nickenzie 's threads gets washed up in a sea of complaints, when the stuff he has proposed would be amazing for the general QOL of the game.

    I can't take all the credit, some of my ideas have been inspired by @weirdkid5 because I REAL feel like his suggestion will work to be honest!

    SWF Changes:

    Basically, we need two party queues for the solos and SWF. SWF cannot join solos queues and vice versa to keep things simple. Solos will have an easier time reaching their pip zone while SWF will have to do a little more to reach theirs because they are expected to do better with voice communication. The killer will be rewarded with more BP whenever they are going against a SWF to compensate for the potentially increased difficulty.

    Done and queues will remain the same as normal because we aren't directly splitting the player base in half.
    @Nickenzie What would prevent survivors from re-queing into the solo que over and over again until they got into a room with their friends like they did prior to the introduction of the SWF option?
    Increase re-queue times when you dodge or leave a lobby.

    First: 15 seconds
    Second: 30 seconds
    Third: 1 minute
    Fourth: 5 minutes
    Fifth: 10 minutes
    Etc etc etc...
    Super! Punish me because I don't want to get curb stomped when I pop on for a few, hopefully fair games.

    Basically force me into mixed rank SWFs with a not even passable array of perks and addons so an SWF can feel oooh so accomplished when reds, purples, and greens stomp a casual.
    Huzzah.

    Let's punish everyone that just bought the game so they gotta face smurfs looking for easy games. 
    @Rebel_Raven
    Translation: (Histrionics => English)
    "Every SWF is a commando unit waiting to waste me including the SWF who just wanna chill with their friends. Furthermore, I'll get bullied by every SWF even through some of those games might be my fault due to my mistakes and not because they are a SWF. Nickenzie is a dirty tryhard sweaty survivor who wants smurfs to bully lower ranked players and want killers to suffer so he's also @SenzuDuck follower, ignore him!"

    To recap: (Unpopular opinion) Not every SWF is a commando unit so please stop with the exaggeration that every SWF is one. Furthermore, I lose on average 1 in 10 SWF games (depip) because the majority aren't the depip squad. Lastly, I obviously don't advocate smurfs to bully lower levels so please do not put words into my mouth. If you disagree, perhaps tell me some things you'll change to make it better instead of assuming the absolute worst about me.

    And you complain about me putting words in your mouth? Wow.
    Just gunna disregard the first part as having taking this personally when I didn't intend it to be.
    Sorry.
    Not trying to be a dick, just willing to realize when I'm about to be screwed over, and say something about it.

    Problem is figuring out which 1 of 1000 SWFs aren't sweaty swat teams. 
    Playing Russian roulette isn't so much fun when there's 5 chambers loaded, and you have to pull the trigger 6 times. 

    And let's not forget that most SWFs look for easier matches in low rank killers so they don't have to be quite the sweaty swat team.
    And that the big issue is communication, and coordination and most any SWF can, and often do abuse it which is still a gigantic advantage no matter how much people want to down play it.

    Oh wow, you don't have problems with SWF? How many lvl 3 perks do you have to pick from? How many high end addons, and offerings?  
    Got that great loadout, or two waiting?
    You haven't been taking in my point if view.
    It's a totally different experience vsing SWF when you're prepared compared to when you aren't, or can't be prepared. 
    It's like Tru3 playing perkless. Even he struggles. If a pretty good killer like him struggles with a less than adequate loadout, where the heck do you think the people who aren't as good are?
    Are you overlooking the similarities in SWFs seeking easier killers to deal with vs killers depipping to look for easier survivors?

    What do you think forcing players to play SWFs will do?
    It will force killers to endure teams that are looking to bully less prepared killers. The gamble is really high, and not in favor of the killer.
    So indirectly, that is advocating letting SWFs bully less prepared killers via basically forcing killers into games lest they get punished.

    Some 70 percent of games have a SWF. Has lobby times at rank 1 sped up any? If not, then that means most SWFs are in lower ranks.
    And since most of them want killers in their teens of rank, most of them are going to be closer to 15 than 5.

    You want to stop dodging? The sooner killers are on par with communicating, and coordinating SWFs, the better. 
    If you need solo to be on par with SWF first, then hurry up on that.
    If killers are going to be on par with SWF they need time to do the things they have to do, or to be more efficient at it like:
    better tracking ability in general. Maybe bake in whispers? Make scratches, blood, and sound more useful? Instead of them being constantly damaged.
    2 hooks to kill instead of 3, maybe?
    Able to end chases faster. Faster bloodlust, maybe?
    Fix huntress' hatchets to allow for more leniency in throwing over obstacles, or beside them.
    Maybe appeal to people's inner mercenary, and give them bonus BP for the difficulty spike? I mean bare minimum, that? 
    Funnel SWFs into red, and purple ranks?
    Increase mori frequency? 
    Increase high end addon frequency?
    Lower stun duration, and/or weapon wiping time?
    Let's get rid of the gaping huge safezone that is an open gate, or even the hatch.
    Let's make killer perks a bit easier to get so people can build proper loadouts sooner? Less odds of people who are already at end game suggesting perks killers don't have.
    There's always that secondary, well third objective since totems are usually secondary. The speed a coordinated group moves at is too damn fast, and the secondary is often optional. 
    I'm just spitballing here. Not super serious, but I don't ever remeber seeing you propose ideas on closing the gap between killers and swf.

    Honestly, I was hoping you would give it some thought which is why I usually mention it in your threads on catching solo up to swf. You seem actually interested in making the game better, and I respect that.
    You're not someone that just sits there telling people to git gud, or insulting people for not being good.
    Doesn't mean much when they have RPGs to kill tanks with, and the people they're ragging on has squirt guns.

    At least I'm not demanding the removal of swf, though?

    Our DBD killers are pretty shite at killing people, bluntly. Especially when even the weakest of SWFs can have free aura reading, and map.
    All the extra steps they have to take, all the time they need is the problem. 

    In short, to boost killers, we should look at games that have SWF, and Voice, and their killers. What do they have that ours don't? 
    Jason is basically all our best killers in one, and then some to deal with the speed of voice chat, and dealing with the distances necessary to travel.
    And they just now got close to balance with the game. 
    Our killers need to be closer to where he is. Not completely there, but, well, killers have to be better killers.

    You cannot force people to play a game that isn't fun/rewarding. You can't punish them into it.
    You have to make it fun and/or rewarding again.
    That novel though. Games really not that bad. If SWF are so terrible, play them and move on. You cant win every game. Even if prepared. 

    Also you cant tell people what is or isnt fun. I enjoy a challenge. It's fun to see your shortcomings and learn new things/ways to play. 

    But some people just want ez mode.
  • Rebel_Raven
    Rebel_Raven Member Posts: 1,775
    Carpemortum said:
    Rebel_Raven said:
    Nickenzie said:
    Rebel_Raven said:
    Nickenzie said:
    RWoodrow said:
    Nickenzie said:
    DelsKibara said:

    @Delfador said:
    There are many very useful and beneficial threads but they get lost in this mess unfortunately.

    I do know stuff like @Nickenzie 's threads gets washed up in a sea of complaints, when the stuff he has proposed would be amazing for the general QOL of the game.

    I can't take all the credit, some of my ideas have been inspired by @weirdkid5 because I REAL feel like his suggestion will work to be honest!

    SWF Changes:

    Basically, we need two party queues for the solos and SWF. SWF cannot join solos queues and vice versa to keep things simple. Solos will have an easier time reaching their pip zone while SWF will have to do a little more to reach theirs because they are expected to do better with voice communication. The killer will be rewarded with more BP whenever they are going against a SWF to compensate for the potentially increased difficulty.

    Done and queues will remain the same as normal because we aren't directly splitting the player base in half.
    @Nickenzie What would prevent survivors from re-queing into the solo que over and over again until they got into a room with their friends like they did prior to the introduction of the SWF option?
    Increase re-queue times when you dodge or leave a lobby.

    First: 15 seconds
    Second: 30 seconds
    Third: 1 minute
    Fourth: 5 minutes
    Fifth: 10 minutes
    Etc etc etc...
    Super! Punish me because I don't want to get curb stomped when I pop on for a few, hopefully fair games.

    Basically force me into mixed rank SWFs with a not even passable array of perks and addons so an SWF can feel oooh so accomplished when reds, purples, and greens stomp a casual.
    Huzzah.

    Let's punish everyone that just bought the game so they gotta face smurfs looking for easy games. 
    @Rebel_Raven
    Translation: (Histrionics => English)
    "Every SWF is a commando unit waiting to waste me including the SWF who just wanna chill with their friends. Furthermore, I'll get bullied by every SWF even through some of those games might be my fault due to my mistakes and not because they are a SWF. Nickenzie is a dirty tryhard sweaty survivor who wants smurfs to bully lower ranked players and want killers to suffer so he's also @SenzuDuck follower, ignore him!"

    To recap: (Unpopular opinion) Not every SWF is a commando unit so please stop with the exaggeration that every SWF is one. Furthermore, I lose on average 1 in 10 SWF games (depip) because the majority aren't the depip squad. Lastly, I obviously don't advocate smurfs to bully lower levels so please do not put words into my mouth. If you disagree, perhaps tell me some things you'll change to make it better instead of assuming the absolute worst about me.

    And you complain about me putting words in your mouth? Wow.
    Just gunna disregard the first part as having taking this personally when I didn't intend it to be.
    Sorry.
    Not trying to be a dick, just willing to realize when I'm about to be screwed over, and say something about it.

    Problem is figuring out which 1 of 1000 SWFs aren't sweaty swat teams. 
    Playing Russian roulette isn't so much fun when there's 5 chambers loaded, and you have to pull the trigger 6 times. 

    And let's not forget that most SWFs look for easier matches in low rank killers so they don't have to be quite the sweaty swat team.
    And that the big issue is communication, and coordination and most any SWF can, and often do abuse it which is still a gigantic advantage no matter how much people want to down play it.

    Oh wow, you don't have problems with SWF? How many lvl 3 perks do you have to pick from? How many high end addons, and offerings?  
    Got that great loadout, or two waiting?
    You haven't been taking in my point if view.
    It's a totally different experience vsing SWF when you're prepared compared to when you aren't, or can't be prepared. 
    It's like Tru3 playing perkless. Even he struggles. If a pretty good killer like him struggles with a less than adequate loadout, where the heck do you think the people who aren't as good are?
    Are you overlooking the similarities in SWFs seeking easier killers to deal with vs killers depipping to look for easier survivors?

    What do you think forcing players to play SWFs will do?
    It will force killers to endure teams that are looking to bully less prepared killers. The gamble is really high, and not in favor of the killer.
    So indirectly, that is advocating letting SWFs bully less prepared killers via basically forcing killers into games lest they get punished.

    Some 70 percent of games have a SWF. Has lobby times at rank 1 sped up any? If not, then that means most SWFs are in lower ranks.
    And since most of them want killers in their teens of rank, most of them are going to be closer to 15 than 5.

    You want to stop dodging? The sooner killers are on par with communicating, and coordinating SWFs, the better. 
    If you need solo to be on par with SWF first, then hurry up on that.
    If killers are going to be on par with SWF they need time to do the things they have to do, or to be more efficient at it like:
    better tracking ability in general. Maybe bake in whispers? Make scratches, blood, and sound more useful? Instead of them being constantly damaged.
    2 hooks to kill instead of 3, maybe?
    Able to end chases faster. Faster bloodlust, maybe?
    Fix huntress' hatchets to allow for more leniency in throwing over obstacles, or beside them.
    Maybe appeal to people's inner mercenary, and give them bonus BP for the difficulty spike? I mean bare minimum, that? 
    Funnel SWFs into red, and purple ranks?
    Increase mori frequency? 
    Increase high end addon frequency?
    Lower stun duration, and/or weapon wiping time?
    Let's get rid of the gaping huge safezone that is an open gate, or even the hatch.
    Let's make killer perks a bit easier to get so people can build proper loadouts sooner? Less odds of people who are already at end game suggesting perks killers don't have.
    There's always that secondary, well third objective since totems are usually secondary. The speed a coordinated group moves at is too damn fast, and the secondary is often optional. 
    I'm just spitballing here. Not super serious, but I don't ever remeber seeing you propose ideas on closing the gap between killers and swf.

    Honestly, I was hoping you would give it some thought which is why I usually mention it in your threads on catching solo up to swf. You seem actually interested in making the game better, and I respect that.
    You're not someone that just sits there telling people to git gud, or insulting people for not being good.
    Doesn't mean much when they have RPGs to kill tanks with, and the people they're ragging on has squirt guns.

    At least I'm not demanding the removal of swf, though?

    Our DBD killers are pretty shite at killing people, bluntly. Especially when even the weakest of SWFs can have free aura reading, and map.
    All the extra steps they have to take, all the time they need is the problem. 

    In short, to boost killers, we should look at games that have SWF, and Voice, and their killers. What do they have that ours don't? 
    Jason is basically all our best killers in one, and then some to deal with the speed of voice chat, and dealing with the distances necessary to travel.
    And they just now got close to balance with the game. 
    Our killers need to be closer to where he is. Not completely there, but, well, killers have to be better killers.

    You cannot force people to play a game that isn't fun/rewarding. You can't punish them into it.
    You have to make it fun and/or rewarding again.
    That novel though. Games really not that bad. If SWF are so terrible, play them and move on. You cant win every game. Even if prepared. 

    Also you cant tell people what is or isnt fun. I enjoy a challenge. It's fun to see your shortcomings and learn new things/ways to play. 

    But some people just want ez mode.
    You basically told me what's fun and isn't fun in telling me to just play them anyhow.

    You do not get it. SWF is alarmingly common. There's no occasional game, it's more often than not. 

    I want a fair game, not an easy one.
    And it's pretty ironic trying to call me out on wanting an easier game when SWFs generally get those by default, and game the system to get even easier games.
    SWF is often not fair because the game isn't balanced for them abusing things like SWF to make voice chat easier to set up, and coordination.

    I'm not telling you to stop playing SWFs. Hell, I'm not telling you how to play, nor do I give a damn 
    You're the one looking to tell me what to do.
  • scorpio
    scorpio Member Posts: 364

    I could say the same for all the posts about camping/tunneling. There is A LOT of repetition on these boards.

  • NMCKE
    NMCKE Member Posts: 8,243
    Rebel_Raven said:
    Nickenzie said:
    Rebel_Raven said:
    Nickenzie said:
    RWoodrow said:
    Nickenzie said:
    DelsKibara said:

    @Delfador said:
    There are many very useful and beneficial threads but they get lost in this mess unfortunately.

    I do know stuff like @Nickenzie 's threads gets washed up in a sea of complaints, when the stuff he has proposed would be amazing for the general QOL of the game.

    I can't take all the credit, some of my ideas have been inspired by @weirdkid5 because I REAL feel like his suggestion will work to be honest!

    SWF Changes:

    Basically, we need two party queues for the solos and SWF. SWF cannot join solos queues and vice versa to keep things simple. Solos will have an easier time reaching their pip zone while SWF will have to do a little more to reach theirs because they are expected to do better with voice communication. The killer will be rewarded with more BP whenever they are going against a SWF to compensate for the potentially increased difficulty.

    Done and queues will remain the same as normal because we aren't directly splitting the player base in half.
    @Nickenzie What would prevent survivors from re-queing into the solo que over and over again until they got into a room with their friends like they did prior to the introduction of the SWF option?
    Increase re-queue times when you dodge or leave a lobby.

    First: 15 seconds
    Second: 30 seconds
    Third: 1 minute
    Fourth: 5 minutes
    Fifth: 10 minutes
    Etc etc etc...
    Super! Punish me because I don't want to get curb stomped when I pop on for a few, hopefully fair games.

    Basically force me into mixed rank SWFs with a not even passable array of perks and addons so an SWF can feel oooh so accomplished when reds, purples, and greens stomp a casual.
    Huzzah.

    Let's punish everyone that just bought the game so they gotta face smurfs looking for easy games. 
    @Rebel_Raven
    Translation: (Histrionics => English)
    "Every SWF is a commando unit waiting to waste me including the SWF who just wanna chill with their friends. Furthermore, I'll get bullied by every SWF even through some of those games might be my fault due to my mistakes and not because they are a SWF. Nickenzie is a dirty tryhard sweaty survivor who wants smurfs to bully lower ranked players and want killers to suffer so he's also @SenzuDuck follower, ignore him!"

    To recap: (Unpopular opinion) Not every SWF is a commando unit so please stop with the exaggeration that every SWF is one. Furthermore, I lose on average 1 in 10 SWF games (depip) because the majority aren't the depip squad. Lastly, I obviously don't advocate smurfs to bully lower levels so please do not put words into my mouth. If you disagree, perhaps tell me some things you'll change to make it better instead of assuming the absolute worst about me.

    And you complain about me putting words in your mouth? Wow.
    Just gunna disregard the first part as having taking this personally when I didn't intend it to be.
    Sorry.
    Not trying to be a dick, just willing to realize when I'm about to be screwed over, and say something about it.

    Problem is figuring out which 1 of 1000 SWFs aren't sweaty swat teams. 
    Playing Russian roulette isn't so much fun when there's 5 chambers loaded, and you have to pull the trigger 6 times. 

    And let's not forget that most SWFs look for easier matches in low rank killers so they don't have to be quite the sweaty swat team.
    And that the big issue is communication, and coordination and most any SWF can, and often do abuse it which is still a gigantic advantage no matter how much people want to down play it.

    Oh wow, you don't have problems with SWF? How many lvl 3 perks do you have to pick from? How many high end addons, and offerings?  
    Got that great loadout, or two waiting?
    You haven't been taking in my point if view.
    It's a totally different experience vsing SWF when you're prepared compared to when you aren't, or can't be prepared. 
    It's like Tru3 playing perkless. Even he struggles. If a pretty good killer like him struggles with a less than adequate loadout, where the heck do you think the people who aren't as good are?
    Are you overlooking the similarities in SWFs seeking easier killers to deal with vs killers depipping to look for easier survivors?

    What do you think forcing players to play SWFs will do?
    It will force killers to endure teams that are looking to bully less prepared killers. The gamble is really high, and not in favor of the killer.
    So indirectly, that is advocating letting SWFs bully less prepared killers via basically forcing killers into games lest they get punished.

    Some 70 percent of games have a SWF. Has lobby times at rank 1 sped up any? If not, then that means most SWFs are in lower ranks.
    And since most of them want killers in their teens of rank, most of them are going to be closer to 15 than 5.

    You want to stop dodging? The sooner killers are on par with communicating, and coordinating SWFs, the better. 
    If you need solo to be on par with SWF first, then hurry up on that.
    If killers are going to be on par with SWF they need time to do the things they have to do, or to be more efficient at it like:
    better tracking ability in general. Maybe bake in whispers? Make scratches, blood, and sound more useful? Instead of them being constantly damaged.
    2 hooks to kill instead of 3, maybe?
    Able to end chases faster. Faster bloodlust, maybe?
    Fix huntress' hatchets to allow for more leniency in throwing over obstacles, or beside them.
    Maybe appeal to people's inner mercenary, and give them bonus BP for the difficulty spike? I mean bare minimum, that? 
    Funnel SWFs into red, and purple ranks?
    Increase mori frequency? 
    Increase high end addon frequency?
    Lower stun duration, and/or weapon wiping time?
    Let's get rid of the gaping huge safezone that is an open gate, or even the hatch.
    Let's make killer perks a bit easier to get so people can build proper loadouts sooner? Less odds of people who are already at end game suggesting perks killers don't have.
    There's always that secondary, well third objective since totems are usually secondary. The speed a coordinated group moves at is too damn fast, and the secondary is often optional. 
    I'm just spitballing here. Not super serious, but I don't ever remeber seeing you propose ideas on closing the gap between killers and swf.

    Honestly, I was hoping you would give it some thought which is why I usually mention it in your threads on catching solo up to swf. You seem actually interested in making the game better, and I respect that.
    You're not someone that just sits there telling people to git gud, or insulting people for not being good.
    Doesn't mean much when they have RPGs to kill tanks with, and the people they're ragging on has squirt guns.

    At least I'm not demanding the removal of swf, though?

    Our DBD killers are pretty shite at killing people, bluntly. Especially when even the weakest of SWFs can have free aura reading, and map.
    All the extra steps they have to take, all the time they need is the problem. 

    In short, to boost killers, we should look at games that have SWF, and Voice, and their killers. What do they have that ours don't? 
    Jason is basically all our best killers in one, and then some to deal with the speed of voice chat, and dealing with the distances necessary to travel.
    And they just now got close to balance with the game. 
    Our killers need to be closer to where he is. Not completely there, but, well, killers have to be better killers.

    You cannot force people to play a game that isn't fun/rewarding. You can't punish them into it.
    You have to make it fun and/or rewarding again.
    @Rebel_Raven
     About the first part, I didn't mean that to be offensive in anyway, I was just summarizing everything you said about this quote below.

    "Super! Punish me because I don't want to get curb stomped when I pop on for a few, hopefully fair games.

    Basically force me into mixed rank SWFs with a not even passable array of perks and addons so an SWF can feel oooh so accomplished when reds, purples, and greens stomp a casual.
    Huzzah.

    Let's punish everyone that just bought the game so they gotta face smurfs looking for easy games."

    Basically your whole statement was exaggerated is my point and did you notice the same thing when I summarized everything you said? I basically said that not everything you mentioned is reality because that is the truth (more on that later). About the putting words in mouth thing, I don't know why but this statement probably hit me in the wrong way. "Let's punish everyone that just bought the game so they gotta face smurfs looking for easy games." I thought you was implying that I WANTED this to happen even through I obviously don't, so I took it as aggression. However, if you was not saying that, my apologies because I honestly thought you was saying that I wanted this to happen.

    Now, about your quote, I'll say a few things! I'm not saying I never had a problem with SWF but I will say not as much as everyone else. I feel like the amount of SWF people lose to could have been prevented by simply learning why you lost (mistakes) than blaming something else. I use to do this a lot and once I realized this isn't the why to go about things, I started to improve my killer gameplay. Yes, there will be games where you're completely powerless because you're facing the depip squad but that's not every SWF game, get over it. You see where I'm coming from? Just try your best, learn, have a growth mindset and not fixed one, and improve your play style to get better at the game overall. Not saying your not good, I'm saying that you could get BETTER than what you're currently are, that's all. Now, if you have already done this... I'm really surprised by the amount of depip squads you run into because I rarely even do at rank 1. Finally, I did make some proposals but a lot of people got salty about it such as giving everyone voice communication, built-in Kindred, seeing auras of survivors who are in a chase, and etc. I'll post a few links of my proposals so you can take a look:
    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/30419/the-gap-between-solo-survivors-and-swf#latest
    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/43880/there-is-only-one-way-swf-solo-q-survivors-gap#latest
  • Seanzu
    Seanzu Member Posts: 7,525

    @Nickenzie said:
    Rebel_Raven said:


    Nickenzie said:


    Rebel_Raven said:


    Nickenzie said:


    RWoodrow said:


    Nickenzie said:


    DelsKibara said:

    @Delfador said:

    There are many very useful and beneficial threads but they get lost in this mess unfortunately.

    I do know stuff like @Nickenzie 's threads gets washed up in a sea of complaints, when the stuff he has proposed would be amazing for the general QOL of the game.

    I can't take all the credit, some of my ideas have been inspired by @weirdkid5 because I REAL feel like his suggestion will work to be honest!

    SWF Changes:

    Basically, we need two party queues for the solos and SWF. SWF cannot join solos queues and vice versa to keep things simple. Solos will have an easier time reaching their pip zone while SWF will have to do a little more to reach theirs because they are expected to do better with voice communication. The killer will be rewarded with more BP whenever they are going against a SWF to compensate for the potentially increased difficulty.

    Done and queues will remain the same as normal because we aren't directly splitting the player base in half.

    @Nickenzie What would prevent survivors from re-queing into the solo que over and over again until they got into a room with their friends like they did prior to the introduction of the SWF option?

    Increase re-queue times when you dodge or leave a lobby.

    First: 15 seconds
    Second: 30 seconds
    Third: 1 minute
    Fourth: 5 minutes
    Fifth: 10 minutes
    Etc etc etc...

    Super! Punish me because I don't want to get curb stomped when I pop on for a few, hopefully fair games.

    Basically force me into mixed rank SWFs with a not even passable array of perks and addons so an SWF can feel oooh so accomplished when reds, purples, and greens stomp a casual.
    Huzzah.

    Let's punish everyone that just bought the game so they gotta face smurfs looking for easy games. 

    @Rebel_Raven
    Translation: (Histrionics => English)
    "Every SWF is a commando unit waiting to waste me including the SWF who just wanna chill with their friends. Furthermore, I'll get bullied by every SWF even through some of those games might be my fault due to my mistakes and not because they are a SWF. Nickenzie is a dirty tryhard sweaty survivor who wants smurfs to bully lower ranked players and want killers to suffer so he's also @SenzuDuck follower, ignore him!"

    To recap: (Unpopular opinion) Not every SWF is a commando unit so please stop with the exaggeration that every SWF is one. Furthermore, I lose on average 1 in 10 SWF games (depip) because the majority aren't the depip squad. Lastly, I obviously don't advocate smurfs to bully lower levels so please do not put words into my mouth. If you disagree, perhaps tell me some things you'll change to make it better instead of assuming the absolute worst about me.

    And you complain about me putting words in your mouth? Wow.
    Just gunna disregard the first part as having taking this personally when I didn't intend it to be.
    Sorry.
    Not trying to be a dick, just willing to realize when I'm about to be screwed over, and say something about it.

    Problem is figuring out which 1 of 1000 SWFs aren't sweaty swat teams. 
    Playing Russian roulette isn't so much fun when there's 5 chambers loaded, and you have to pull the trigger 6 times. 

    And let's not forget that most SWFs look for easier matches in low rank killers so they don't have to be quite the sweaty swat team.
    And that the big issue is communication, and coordination and most any SWF can, and often do abuse it which is still a gigantic advantage no matter how much people want to down play it.

    Oh wow, you don't have problems with SWF? How many lvl 3 perks do you have to pick from? How many high end addons, and offerings?  
    Got that great loadout, or two waiting?
    You haven't been taking in my point if view.
    It's a totally different experience vsing SWF when you're prepared compared to when you aren't, or can't be prepared. 
    It's like Tru3 playing perkless. Even he struggles. If a pretty good killer like him struggles with a less than adequate loadout, where the heck do you think the people who aren't as good are?
    Are you overlooking the similarities in SWFs seeking easier killers to deal with vs killers depipping to look for easier survivors?

    What do you think forcing players to play SWFs will do?
    It will force killers to endure teams that are looking to bully less prepared killers. The gamble is really high, and not in favor of the killer.
    So indirectly, that is advocating letting SWFs bully less prepared killers via basically forcing killers into games lest they get punished.

    Some 70 percent of games have a SWF. Has lobby times at rank 1 sped up any? If not, then that means most SWFs are in lower ranks.
    And since most of them want killers in their teens of rank, most of them are going to be closer to 15 than 5.

    You want to stop dodging? The sooner killers are on par with communicating, and coordinating SWFs, the better. 
    If you need solo to be on par with SWF first, then hurry up on that.
    If killers are going to be on par with SWF they need time to do the things they have to do, or to be more efficient at it like:
    better tracking ability in general. Maybe bake in whispers? Make scratches, blood, and sound more useful? Instead of them being constantly damaged.
    2 hooks to kill instead of 3, maybe?
    Able to end chases faster. Faster bloodlust, maybe?
    Fix huntress' hatchets to allow for more leniency in throwing over obstacles, or beside them.
    Maybe appeal to people's inner mercenary, and give them bonus BP for the difficulty spike? I mean bare minimum, that? 
    Funnel SWFs into red, and purple ranks?
    Increase mori frequency? 
    Increase high end addon frequency?
    Lower stun duration, and/or weapon wiping time?
    Let's get rid of the gaping huge safezone that is an open gate, or even the hatch.
    Let's make killer perks a bit easier to get so people can build proper loadouts sooner? Less odds of people who are already at end game suggesting perks killers don't have.
    There's always that secondary, well third objective since totems are usually secondary. The speed a coordinated group moves at is too damn fast, and the secondary is often optional. 
    I'm just spitballing here. Not super serious, but I don't ever remeber seeing you propose ideas on closing the gap between killers and swf.

    Honestly, I was hoping you would give it some thought which is why I usually mention it in your threads on catching solo up to swf. You seem actually interested in making the game better, and I respect that.
    You're not someone that just sits there telling people to git gud, or insulting people for not being good.
    Doesn't mean much when they have RPGs to kill tanks with, and the people they're ragging on has squirt guns.

    At least I'm not demanding the removal of swf, though?

    Our DBD killers are pretty shite at killing people, bluntly. Especially when even the weakest of SWFs can have free aura reading, and map.
    All the extra steps they have to take, all the time they need is the problem. 

    In short, to boost killers, we should look at games that have SWF, and Voice, and their killers. What do they have that ours don't? 
    Jason is basically all our best killers in one, and then some to deal with the speed of voice chat, and dealing with the distances necessary to travel.
    And they just now got close to balance with the game. 
    Our killers need to be closer to where he is. Not completely there, but, well, killers have to be better killers.

    You cannot force people to play a game that isn't fun/rewarding. You can't punish them into it.
    You have to make it fun and/or rewarding again.

    @Rebel_Raven
     About the first part, I didn't mean that to be offensive in anyway, I was just summarizing everything you said about this quote below.

    (Spoiler)

    Basically your whole statement was exaggerated is my point and did you notice the same thing when I summarized everything you said? I basically said that not everything you mentioned is reality because that is the truth (more on that later). About the putting words in mouth thing, I don't know why but this statement probably hit me in the wrong way. "Let's punish everyone that just bought the game so they gotta face smurfs looking for easy games." I thought you was implying that I WANTED this to happen even through I obviously don't, so I took it as aggression. However, if you was not saying that, my apologies because I honestly thought you was saying that I wanted this to happen.

    Now, about your quote, I'll say a few things! I'm not saying I never had a problem with SWF but I will say not as much as everyone else. I feel like the amount of SWF people lose to could have been prevented by simply learning why you lost (mistakes) than blaming something else. I use to do this a lot and once I realized this isn't the why to go about things, I started to improve my killer gameplay. Yes, there will be games where you're completely powerless because you're facing the depip squad but that's not every SWF game, get over it. You see where I'm coming from? Just try your best, learn, have a growth mindset and not fixed one, and improve your play style to get better at the game overall. Not saying your not good, I'm saying that you could get BETTER than what you're currently are, that's all. Now, if you have already done this... I'm really surprised by the amount of depip squads you run into because I rarely even do at rank 1. Finally, I did make some proposals but a lot of people got salty about it such as giving everyone voice communication, built-in Kindred, seeing auras of survivors who are in a chase, and etc. I'll post a few links of my proposals so you can take a look:
    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/30419/the-gap-between-solo-survivors-and-swf#latest
    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/43880/there-is-only-one-way-swf-solo-q-survivors-gap#latest

    Can we all just take a moment to realise @Rebel_Raven is the same guy who said he's stuck in rank 15 because of SWF while in the same thread saying he dodges SWF.

    Dude makes problems where there isn't any just so he can argue.