So many anti-SWF posts

NMCKE · February 2019

SenzuDuck said:

@Nickenzie said:
Rebel_Raven said:

Nickenzie said:

Rebel_Raven said:

Nickenzie said:

RWoodrow said:

Nickenzie said:

DelsKibara said:

@Delfador said:

There are many very useful and beneficial threads but they get lost in this mess unfortunately.

I do know stuff like @Nickenzie 's threads gets washed up in a sea of complaints, when the stuff he has proposed would be amazing for the general QOL of the game.

I can't take all the credit, some of my ideas have been inspired by @weirdkid5 because I REAL feel like his suggestion will work to be honest!

SWF Changes:

Basically, we need two party queues for the solos and SWF. SWF cannot join solos queues and vice versa to keep things simple. Solos will have an easier time reaching their pip zone while SWF will have to do a little more to reach theirs because they are expected to do better with voice communication. The killer will be rewarded with more BP whenever they are going against a SWF to compensate for the potentially increased difficulty.

Done and queues will remain the same as normal because we aren't directly splitting the player base in half.

@Nickenzie What would prevent survivors from re-queing into the solo que over and over again until they got into a room with their friends like they did prior to the introduction of the SWF option?

Increase re-queue times when you dodge or leave a lobby.

First: 15 seconds
Second: 30 seconds
Third: 1 minute
Fourth: 5 minutes
Fifth: 10 minutes
Etc etc etc...

Super! Punish me because I don't want to get curb stomped when I pop on for a few, hopefully fair games.

Basically force me into mixed rank SWFs with a not even passable array of perks and addons so an SWF can feel oooh so accomplished when reds, purples, and greens stomp a casual.
Huzzah.

Let's punish everyone that just bought the game so they gotta face smurfs looking for easy games.

@Rebel_Raven
Translation: (Histrionics => English)
"Every SWF is a commando unit waiting to waste me including the SWF who just wanna chill with their friends. Furthermore, I'll get bullied by every SWF even through some of those games might be my fault due to my mistakes and not because they are a SWF. Nickenzie is a dirty tryhard sweaty survivor who wants smurfs to bully lower ranked players and want killers to suffer so he's also @SenzuDuck follower, ignore him!"

To recap: (Unpopular opinion) Not every SWF is a commando unit so please stop with the exaggeration that every SWF is one. Furthermore, I lose on average 1 in 10 SWF games (depip) because the majority aren't the depip squad. Lastly, I obviously don't advocate smurfs to bully lower levels so please do not put words into my mouth. If you disagree, perhaps tell me some things you'll change to make it better instead of assuming the absolute worst about me.

And you complain about me putting words in your mouth? Wow.
Just gunna disregard the first part as having taking this personally when I didn't intend it to be.
Sorry.
Not trying to be a dick, just willing to realize when I'm about to be screwed over, and say something about it.

Problem is figuring out which 1 of 1000 SWFs aren't sweaty swat teams.
Playing Russian roulette isn't so much fun when there's 5 chambers loaded, and you have to pull the trigger 6 times.

And let's not forget that most SWFs look for easier matches in low rank killers so they don't have to be quite the sweaty swat team.
And that the big issue is communication, and coordination and most any SWF can, and often do abuse it which is still a gigantic advantage no matter how much people want to down play it.

Oh wow, you don't have problems with SWF? How many lvl 3 perks do you have to pick from? How many high end addons, and offerings?
Got that great loadout, or two waiting?
You haven't been taking in my point if view.
It's a totally different experience vsing SWF when you're prepared compared to when you aren't, or can't be prepared.
It's like Tru3 playing perkless. Even he struggles. If a pretty good killer like him struggles with a less than adequate loadout, where the heck do you think the people who aren't as good are?
Are you overlooking the similarities in SWFs seeking easier killers to deal with vs killers depipping to look for easier survivors?

What do you think forcing players to play SWFs will do?
It will force killers to endure teams that are looking to bully less prepared killers. The gamble is really high, and not in favor of the killer.
So indirectly, that is advocating letting SWFs bully less prepared killers via basically forcing killers into games lest they get punished.

Some 70 percent of games have a SWF. Has lobby times at rank 1 sped up any? If not, then that means most SWFs are in lower ranks.
And since most of them want killers in their teens of rank, most of them are going to be closer to 15 than 5.

You want to stop dodging? The sooner killers are on par with communicating, and coordinating SWFs, the better.
If you need solo to be on par with SWF first, then hurry up on that.
If killers are going to be on par with SWF they need time to do the things they have to do, or to be more efficient at it like:
better tracking ability in general. Maybe bake in whispers? Make scratches, blood, and sound more useful? Instead of them being constantly damaged.
2 hooks to kill instead of 3, maybe?
Able to end chases faster. Faster bloodlust, maybe?
Fix huntress' hatchets to allow for more leniency in throwing over obstacles, or beside them.
Maybe appeal to people's inner mercenary, and give them bonus BP for the difficulty spike? I mean bare minimum, that?
Funnel SWFs into red, and purple ranks?
Increase mori frequency?
Increase high end addon frequency?
Lower stun duration, and/or weapon wiping time?
Let's get rid of the gaping huge safezone that is an open gate, or even the hatch.
Let's make killer perks a bit easier to get so people can build proper loadouts sooner? Less odds of people who are already at end game suggesting perks killers don't have.
There's always that secondary, well third objective since totems are usually secondary. The speed a coordinated group moves at is too damn fast, and the secondary is often optional.
I'm just spitballing here. Not super serious, but I don't ever remeber seeing you propose ideas on closing the gap between killers and swf.

Honestly, I was hoping you would give it some thought which is why I usually mention it in your threads on catching solo up to swf. You seem actually interested in making the game better, and I respect that.
You're not someone that just sits there telling people to git gud, or insulting people for not being good.
Doesn't mean much when they have RPGs to kill tanks with, and the people they're ragging on has squirt guns.

At least I'm not demanding the removal of swf, though?

Our DBD killers are pretty shite at killing people, bluntly. Especially when even the weakest of SWFs can have free aura reading, and map.
All the extra steps they have to take, all the time they need is the problem.

In short, to boost killers, we should look at games that have SWF, and Voice, and their killers. What do they have that ours don't?
Jason is basically all our best killers in one, and then some to deal with the speed of voice chat, and dealing with the distances necessary to travel.
And they just now got close to balance with the game.
Our killers need to be closer to where he is. Not completely there, but, well, killers have to be better killers.

You cannot force people to play a game that isn't fun/rewarding. You can't punish them into it.
You have to make it fun and/or rewarding again.

@Rebel_Raven
About the first part, I didn't mean that to be offensive in anyway, I was just summarizing everything you said about this quote below.

(Spoiler)

Basically your whole statement was exaggerated is my point and did you notice the same thing when I summarized everything you said? I basically said that not everything you mentioned is reality because that is the truth (more on that later). About the putting words in mouth thing, I don't know why but this statement probably hit me in the wrong way. "Let's punish everyone that just bought the game so they gotta face smurfs looking for easy games." I thought you was implying that I WANTED this to happen even through I obviously don't, so I took it as aggression. However, if you was not saying that, my apologies because I honestly thought you was saying that I wanted this to happen.

Now, about your quote, I'll say a few things! I'm not saying I never had a problem with SWF but I will say not as much as everyone else. I feel like the amount of SWF people lose to could have been prevented by simply learning why you lost (mistakes) than blaming something else. I use to do this a lot and once I realized this isn't the why to go about things, I started to improve my killer gameplay. Yes, there will be games where you're completely powerless because you're facing the depip squad but that's not every SWF game, get over it. You see where I'm coming from? Just try your best, learn, have a growth mindset and not fixed one, and improve your play style to get better at the game overall. Not saying your not good, I'm saying that you could get BETTER than what you're currently are, that's all. Now, if you have already done this... I'm really surprised by the amount of depip squads you run into because I rarely even do at rank 1. Finally, I did make some proposals but a lot of people got salty about it such as giving everyone voice communication, built-in Kindred, seeing auras of survivors who are in a chase, and etc. I'll post a few links of my proposals so you can take a look:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/30419/the-gap-between-solo-survivors-and-swf#latest
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/43880/there-is-only-one-way-swf-solo-q-survivors-gap#latest

Can we all just take a moment to realise @Rebel_Raven is the same guy who said he's stuck in rank 15 because of SWF while in the same thread saying he dodges SWF.

Dude makes problems where there isn't any just so he can argue.

That's okay if he's stuck at rank 15, not everyone is meant to be at rank 1 so there's no shame in him being a rank 15 killer! However, I do feel like a lot of people, not everyone, exaggerate how many SWF commando units their are in my opinion, this applies to every killer main regardless of their rank.

LegitAdventurer · February 2019

Swf is cheating just as much as camping and tunneling is cheating. It isnt. Both sides just invent this rulebook of what the other side is supposed too and not supposed to do. Its so annoying, just play the game and stop disconnecting because things don't go your way, yano?

Rebel_Raven · February 2019

Nickenzie said:

Rebel_Raven said:

Nickenzie said:

Rebel_Raven said:

Nickenzie said:

RWoodrow said:

Nickenzie said:

DelsKibara said:

@Delfador said:
There are many very useful and beneficial threads but they get lost in this mess unfortunately.

I do know stuff like @Nickenzie 's threads gets washed up in a sea of complaints, when the stuff he has proposed would be amazing for the general QOL of the game.

I can't take all the credit, some of my ideas have been inspired by @weirdkid5 because I REAL feel like his suggestion will work to be honest!

SWF Changes:

Basically, we need two party queues for the solos and SWF. SWF cannot join solos queues and vice versa to keep things simple. Solos will have an easier time reaching their pip zone while SWF will have to do a little more to reach theirs because they are expected to do better with voice communication. The killer will be rewarded with more BP whenever they are going against a SWF to compensate for the potentially increased difficulty.

Done and queues will remain the same as normal because we aren't directly splitting the player base in half.
@Nickenzie What would prevent survivors from re-queing into the solo que over and over again until they got into a room with their friends like they did prior to the introduction of the SWF option?

Increase re-queue times when you dodge or leave a lobby.

First: 15 seconds
Second: 30 seconds
Third: 1 minute
Fourth: 5 minutes
Fifth: 10 minutes
Etc etc etc...

Super! Punish me because I don't want to get curb stomped when I pop on for a few, hopefully fair games.

Basically force me into mixed rank SWFs with a not even passable array of perks and addons so an SWF can feel oooh so accomplished when reds, purples, and greens stomp a casual.
Huzzah.

Let's punish everyone that just bought the game so they gotta face smurfs looking for easy games.

@Rebel_Raven
Translation: (Histrionics => English)
"Every SWF is a commando unit waiting to waste me including the SWF who just wanna chill with their friends. Furthermore, I'll get bullied by every SWF even through some of those games might be my fault due to my mistakes and not because they are a SWF. Nickenzie is a dirty tryhard sweaty survivor who wants smurfs to bully lower ranked players and want killers to suffer so he's also @SenzuDuck follower, ignore him!"

To recap: (Unpopular opinion) Not every SWF is a commando unit so please stop with the exaggeration that every SWF is one. Furthermore, I lose on average 1 in 10 SWF games (depip) because the majority aren't the depip squad. Lastly, I obviously don't advocate smurfs to bully lower levels so please do not put words into my mouth. If you disagree, perhaps tell me some things you'll change to make it better instead of assuming the absolute worst about me.

And you complain about me putting words in your mouth? Wow.
Just gunna disregard the first part as having taking this personally when I didn't intend it to be.
Sorry.
Not trying to be a dick, just willing to realize when I'm about to be screwed over, and say something about it.

Problem is figuring out which 1 of 1000 SWFs aren't sweaty swat teams.
Playing Russian roulette isn't so much fun when there's 5 chambers loaded, and you have to pull the trigger 6 times.

And let's not forget that most SWFs look for easier matches in low rank killers so they don't have to be quite the sweaty swat team.
And that the big issue is communication, and coordination and most any SWF can, and often do abuse it which is still a gigantic advantage no matter how much people want to down play it.

Oh wow, you don't have problems with SWF? How many lvl 3 perks do you have to pick from? How many high end addons, and offerings?
Got that great loadout, or two waiting?
You haven't been taking in my point if view.
It's a totally different experience vsing SWF when you're prepared compared to when you aren't, or can't be prepared.
It's like Tru3 playing perkless. Even he struggles. If a pretty good killer like him struggles with a less than adequate loadout, where the heck do you think the people who aren't as good are?
Are you overlooking the similarities in SWFs seeking easier killers to deal with vs killers depipping to look for easier survivors?

What do you think forcing players to play SWFs will do?
It will force killers to endure teams that are looking to bully less prepared killers. The gamble is really high, and not in favor of the killer.
So indirectly, that is advocating letting SWFs bully less prepared killers via basically forcing killers into games lest they get punished.

Some 70 percent of games have a SWF. Has lobby times at rank 1 sped up any? If not, then that means most SWFs are in lower ranks.
And since most of them want killers in their teens of rank, most of them are going to be closer to 15 than 5.

You want to stop dodging? The sooner killers are on par with communicating, and coordinating SWFs, the better.
If you need solo to be on par with SWF first, then hurry up on that.
If killers are going to be on par with SWF they need time to do the things they have to do, or to be more efficient at it like:
better tracking ability in general. Maybe bake in whispers? Make scratches, blood, and sound more useful? Instead of them being constantly damaged.
2 hooks to kill instead of 3, maybe?
Able to end chases faster. Faster bloodlust, maybe?
Fix huntress' hatchets to allow for more leniency in throwing over obstacles, or beside them.
Maybe appeal to people's inner mercenary, and give them bonus BP for the difficulty spike? I mean bare minimum, that?
Funnel SWFs into red, and purple ranks?
Increase mori frequency?
Increase high end addon frequency?
Lower stun duration, and/or weapon wiping time?
Let's get rid of the gaping huge safezone that is an open gate, or even the hatch.
Let's make killer perks a bit easier to get so people can build proper loadouts sooner? Less odds of people who are already at end game suggesting perks killers don't have.
There's always that secondary, well third objective since totems are usually secondary. The speed a coordinated group moves at is too damn fast, and the secondary is often optional.
I'm just spitballing here. Not super serious, but I don't ever remeber seeing you propose ideas on closing the gap between killers and swf.

Honestly, I was hoping you would give it some thought which is why I usually mention it in your threads on catching solo up to swf. You seem actually interested in making the game better, and I respect that.
You're not someone that just sits there telling people to git gud, or insulting people for not being good.
Doesn't mean much when they have RPGs to kill tanks with, and the people they're ragging on has squirt guns.

At least I'm not demanding the removal of swf, though?

Our DBD killers are pretty shite at killing people, bluntly. Especially when even the weakest of SWFs can have free aura reading, and map.
All the extra steps they have to take, all the time they need is the problem.

In short, to boost killers, we should look at games that have SWF, and Voice, and their killers. What do they have that ours don't?
Jason is basically all our best killers in one, and then some to deal with the speed of voice chat, and dealing with the distances necessary to travel.
And they just now got close to balance with the game.
Our killers need to be closer to where he is. Not completely there, but, well, killers have to be better killers.

You cannot force people to play a game that isn't fun/rewarding. You can't punish them into it.
You have to make it fun and/or rewarding again.

@Rebel_Raven
About the first part, I didn't mean that to be offensive in anyway, I was just summarizing everything you said about this quote below.

"Super! Punish me because I don't want to get curb stomped when I pop on for a few, hopefully fair games.

Basically force me into mixed rank SWFs with a not even passable array of perks and addons so an SWF can feel oooh so accomplished when reds, purples, and greens stomp a casual.
Huzzah.

Let's punish everyone that just bought the game so they gotta face smurfs looking for easy games."

Basically your whole statement was exaggerated is my point and did you notice the same thing when I summarized everything you said? I basically said that not everything you mentioned is reality because that is the truth (more on that later). About the putting words in mouth thing, I don't know why but this statement probably hit me in the wrong way. "Let's punish everyone that just bought the game so they gotta face smurfs looking for easy games." I thought you was implying that I WANTED this to happen even through I obviously don't, so I took it as aggression. However, if you was not saying that, my apologies because I honestly thought you was saying that I wanted this to happen.

Now, about your quote, I'll say a few things! I'm not saying I never had a problem with SWF but I will say not as much as everyone else. I feel like the amount of SWF people lose to could have been prevented by simply learning why you lost (mistakes) than blaming something else. I use to do this a lot and once I realized this isn't the why to go about things, I started to improve my killer gameplay. Yes, there will be games where you're completely powerless because you're facing the depip squad but that's not every SWF game, get over it. You see where I'm coming from? Just try your best, learn, have a growth mindset and not fixed one, and improve your play style to get better at the game overall. Not saying your not good, I'm saying that you could get BETTER than what you're currently are, that's all. Now, if you have already done this... I'm really surprised by the amount of depip squads you run into because I rarely even do at rank 1. Finally, I did make some proposals but a lot of people got salty about it such as giving everyone voice communication, built-in Kindred, seeing auras of survivors who are in a chase, and etc. I'll post a few links of my proposals so you can take a look:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/30419/the-gap-between-solo-survivors-and-swf#latest
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/43880/there-is-only-one-way-swf-solo-q-survivors-gap#latest

But if you want that, or not, that is probably what will happen with your time penalty.
Swf is common. The odds of the time penalty going high enough and running into an SWF are not in the killers favor.
Especially on lower ranks.
Sooner or later the killer will have to settle on an SWF, and it could likely be a toxic one.
That is why I severely dislike your idea of stacking punishments for dodging.
A killer could dodge 3 toolboxes and a 2x2 swf group to end up with 4 meg swf with flashlights and no Franklin's demise.
Or a group with instaheals.

Maybe if we had some realistic way to tell how big of a threat a group is? I mentioned the SWF warning badge. Not so much as to tell who is SWF, but to give an idea of how sweaty they are.

It doesn't necessarily take a depip squad, you see. I don't have a huge arsenal to fight with, personally.
A lot of killers in the teens won't either.
It's why SWFs like targeting killers in the teens. We don't all play like tru3, or Monto, and we certainly don't have their arsenal. Easy easy games for them, but they sure take it seriously.
Again, Tru3 struggled when he went perkless. We aren't all as good as he is, and we usually have to make due with what ever perks we have.

It's not a matter of me losing, it's how much of a chance I really had, and how often I have a realistic chance.
All I want, all I ever really want out of DBD is fair trials.
Can we not pretend that an SWF using comms to coordinate is particularly fair?
I mean the SWFs I commonly run into are mixed colors, and use comms to their advantage.

I don't play hardcore.
Partly because SWFs are generally stacked, and there's not a whole lot of learning when they're thorougly immersed, or coordinated. Pretty sick of the imbalance. There's not a lot of learning in the imbalance.
Partly because I don't have time for it.
Getting good enough to bust SWFs with my limited arsenal isn't something I have time, or drive for.
Hell, I don't believe anyone would want to be in my shoes.
I don't have a full array of perks, the time/drive to grind them, etc.
I can do ok against a group of solos, and I certainly feel better about losing to them, but a coordinated SWF? Not so much. Expertly trading hooks, conga lines for taking hits, running to eachother for saves, having high rank ringers.
It's like I'm an unwitting participant in their combat training, and their grind for more BP at the cost of any fun I might have. It's just too much hassle. Even if I do good, I don't really feel good.

P.s. also taking a look at your threads/ideas!

gamerscrybecauseofme · February 2019

I think the term, "cheating" is the wrong word to use when it comes to SWF. Maybe people should associate the term, "unfair" instead. The reason I say this is because SWF have several perk abilities without using the actual perks. For example, they have Bond, Premonition, Spine Chill, Kindred, Window of Opportunity, Modified Boiled Over (body blocking), etc. Also the added fact that they can strategize loadout builds pre-game, know how many totems have been destroyed or if a Hex is in play without the game telling you, SWF can communicate through voice (no emotes) at an unlimited range throughout the map. It's these types of advantages that make people petition against SWF because it literally feels like a game cheat inside of a multiplayer game. I would like to reiterate that SWF tactics are legal (as stated by the devs) but it doesn't change the fact that it cheapens the co-op survival horror aspect of the game by taking away the fear of the unknown, the RNG aspect of the game, etc.

Basically, they have all the perks that would normally be used in a solo match up, without using a perk slot. There is absolutely no way I would use my normal SWF setup in a solo match and vise versa.

I only use tools and med kits in an swf squad, as it has much less chance of being wasted during a match (I am not gonna die on first hook and lose my purple #########, when I heal someone they're not going to sit the rest of the match out)

In SWF, I know I will get rescued efficiently from the hook, get healed/mended when I need, will have players distracting the killer when I get caught or an in a chase. All this is extremely powerful as a survivor.

When I compare that to a solo match up, most of the swf advantages disappear. I now have to run more team based perks, small game, kindred and premonition being my favourites, then self care as i need to heal as soon as I escape a killers terror radius.

I am rank 1 survivor (killer too) the kinds of players I swf with, literally bully killers. Torches, jukes, looping, body blocking, 360s for fun, distractions, leading the killer to useless parts of the map etc. When the squad is together, the killer might get a hook or 2, but no kills! The only reason, is because the mix of good players + communication = killer is now the hunted.

Something about SWF itself needs addressing. The Devs need to acknowledge just how many perks, being in an SWF squad actually gives survivors and balance towards killer gaining extra perk slots (literally, SWF players go into a match with 10 perks at least)

NathanExplosion · February 2019

@Nickenzie said:

@Rebel_Raven
Translation: (Histrionics => English)
"Every SWF is a commando unit waiting to waste me including the SWF who just wanna chill with their friends. Furthermore, I'll get bullied by every SWF even through some of those games might be my fault due to my mistakes and not because they are a SWF. Nickenzie is a dirty tryhard sweaty survivor who wants smurfs to bully lower ranked players and want killers to suffer so he's also @SenzuDuck follower, ignore him!"

To recap: (Unpopular opinion) Not every SWF is a commando unit so please stop with the exaggeration that every SWF is one. Furthermore, I lose on average 1 in 10 SWF games (depip) because the majority aren't the depip squad. Lastly, I obviously don't advocate smurfs to bully lower levels so please do not put words into my mouth. If you disagree, perhaps tell me some things you'll change to make it better instead of assuming the absolute worst about me.

Looks like you finally accepted all the survivors mains shenaningans.

If you can't beat them, join them i guess ?

LUL.

Yes we know :

"not all swf iz a SWAT team, u baby killer crybaby, SWF iz here to stay so suck it up !"

(To summarize all these posts)

Hope you enjoy the Lobby simulator too.

Because most killer players are not, and don't want to be the survivor's bitches, they will simply leave like it's already the case.

One can only endure a certain amount of bullshits, it's natural.

I guess survivors will finally be able to repair their generator in peace !

What ?

Wasn't the final goal ?

But why doing all this to... whatever ^^"

mintchapstick · February 2019

@fcc2014 said:

@mintchapstick said:

@PinkEricka said:
@mintchapstick If you see 4 toolboxes, just dodge or bring FD. lol.

I've only been playing killer for a couple of weeks,. I don't have FD & I try not to dodge lobbies because of the long wait for survivors, but.

You by not dodging are getting experience by playing all types. It sucks at first but you will get better because of it. You become more efficient as a killer.

Yeah, I'm definitely cognizant of that, but I think sometimes it can be easy to fall into a loop of dodging because sometimes it's just exhausting to think about playing against some teams? I've literally had days where people have loaded in and I've decided to go take a nap instead.

Stompa · February 2019

i gave swf second chances over and over, but all the bm, abuse, insult group invites, ddosd, doxing attempts threats etc got to a point where its flatout unhealty to host them. plus the event just brings out the worst out of ppl, these are my personal reasons not to host them. the whole balance issue asside.

just my 2 cents on the topic, i will dodge them just because i am fed up with them, even if this would mean 40 minutes queue time, and if dedicated servers arrive and i still cant opt them out; i will simply drop the game for good

weirdkid5 · February 2019

I come back and I see the usual weak ass arguments to continue to justify breaking the balance.

"Split the playerbase"

"Long queue times"

"nOt eVeRy sWf pLAyS lIkE tHiS"

I've already explained how you could make the dodge system work if you split the queues so that people stop dodging. I've also explained how I want the SWF mode to be a unique 5v5 experience, but all the SWF hand holders continue to clasp their ears with the same nonsense.

"I sHoUlnDT bE pUnIsHeD fOr pLaYinG wItH fRiEndS"

No, you should be punished for being a major contributing factor to why the game's balance is a complete shitshow.

SIlentCetra · February 2019

I can't help but wonder...why not just make a 4 stack of friends queue separately from those on solo? That would solve the problem right there. Give a boost to BP to incentivize killers to queue for the SWF option. Maybe, and this probably won't happen, because these devs are obviously money hungry (even moreso than EA), but give a small amount of premium currency that can be used to buy new killers IF said killer wins one of these matches. That would draw some killers to play SWF, allow those who want to play with friends to be able to do so, and just all around make a better experience for everyone.

On another note altogether. why the HELL are vital perks like BBQ Chili locked behind paywalls? That is beyond frustrating, because those of us who can't afford or don't want to support this idiotic world of microtransactions after paying full goddamn price for a game, can't have proper loadouts. Seriously, this is some EA level crap-they tried this ######### with BF2 and it backfired BADLY. Why does the DBD community let the devs get away with it?

SlothGirly · February 2019

@Poweas said:

@AlphaJackson said:
At this point I've given up complaning about SWF if it's a 2-3 man, I'll just play normally, if it's a 4 man I'll whip out the trusty ol' Insidious LF with IG and Agitation. If you can't beat the toxcicity... join it.

What if it's not a toxic SWF but they just look toxic.

Well then I'll just sit infront of ruin with the chainsaw reved if they look at it fine, if they walk near it fine, but if they touch it... they gon die.

Bravo0413 · February 2019

SWF is the reason that this game is as big as it is... I would not say that the game would have died but in no way would it be where it is today without SWF... and the game continues to grow... if this game added KWF (kill with friends) this game would grow even more...

That said SWF is unbalanced in the current state of the game... it's just..... how do you fix it without pissing off a lot players?

ArkhamRobot · February 2019

@JohnTed said:
Killers have already had a ton of overpower perks. BBQ, Ruin,
BBQ can also make killer earn more booldpoints. Comparing to We're Gonna Live Forever, it is totally insane to survivors.
SWF is the only approach to raise up the survival rate. Killer is too easy in this game.

SWF is an epic FAIL ! Just look at the MatchMaking of rank and toxicity from these chumps. It needs an overhaul.

Giddawid · February 2019

@KingB said:
The more threads there are the more the devs will listen. Persistence is key.

Sometimes, one good thread is all it takes; with a good discussion, the pros and cons, the change itself, pros and cons of the change, and a summary of why it would improve the game. Aim for quality over quantity.

And yes, we are always happy to listen to your feedback

Rebel_Raven · February 2019

Giddawid said:

@KingB said:
The more threads there are the more the devs will listen. Persistence is key.

Sometimes, one good thread is all it takes; with a good discussion, the pros and cons, the change itself, pros and cons of the change, and a summary of why it would improve the game. Aim for quality over quantity.

And yes, we are always happy to listen to your feedback

The problem is figuring out a battle plan, imo.

We've treaded over a lot of the same ideas time, and time again.
Swf filters, swf labels, extra blood points for killers facing swf, loss of perks, loss of performance, enhanced performance, etc.
We don't really know what to do to fix the problem, or even smooth things over temporarily since none of the ideas get used.
I can't imagine it's any easier on the dev team. We're all human.

I keep hearing the goal is ti bring Solo to SWF level, and then buff killers, but I never really see plans on how to buff killers.

We know the cons, though. SWF abuses SWF to gain an absurd amount of advantages through chat, abuse it to get matched against low rank killers, some of whom aren't equipped for fighting SWF, thus get easier games, among other issues.
Swf supporters talk like it should be the new baseline difficulty, and that killers should just play up to people playing an easier game, and breaking the game to get advantages the game isn't designed for them to have.

Until something is done, more and more killers are going to get the wake up call, and make more threads.
If nothing is done to benefit the killers regarding SWF, they will keep dodging, and eventually leave the game. Especially since SWF is getting more and more common.

Laakeri · February 2019

Giddawid said:

@KingB said:
The more threads there are the more the devs will listen. Persistence is key.

Sometimes, one good thread is all it takes; with a good discussion, the pros and cons, the change itself, pros and cons of the change, and a summary of why it would improve the game. Aim for quality over quantity.

And yes, we are always happy to listen to your feedback

Weirdkid5'd post had 90 pages on steam forums about SWF. If thats not enough feedback then I dont know what to say.

thesuicidefox · February 2019

I just want to say the almost everyone in this thread needs to learn how to edit quotes. These '5 page long/20 quotes included in a reply' comments makes me just not care to read ANYTHING you people write.

powerbats · February 2019

@Gorgonia said:
Iceman said:

@Gorgonia

The fact that various people are posting about it will help get the devs attention as far doing something about it. One person voice is not enough compared to two+. It may take a while but a little effort is better than no effort.

I mean yeah there are some post that are ridiculous but as long as they are suggesting ways to make the game better than I am fine with it.

If posts really suggested ways to make the game better I wouldn’t have written this. Most of it is ranting and selfish whining.

Agreed and most posts are simply rehashes of the same nonsense as if the people have nothing better to do or refuse to admit that perhaps they're part of the problem. The common theme is it's always a 4 man swf swat team with isnta heals/AD/DH?DS etc insert w/e other excuses here.

Yes they do exist but not to the extent that's complained about and I've run into far more solo swat teams and been part of same. Once the devs buff killers to where they're strong enough we'll still see the same complaints.

Actual good suggestions not one sided suggestions that're constructive are what's needed.

Tucking_Friggered · February 2019

@Victory said:

@Kamikaze_Rose said:
We don't like Cheat With Friends as much as you don't like hearing about Cheat With Friends, so the way I see it, we're all even.

Playing with your friends isn't cheating, I'm sorry you haven't any friends to play with. That is def not how you make any.

Killers can't form parties. We have plenty of friends in other killers. Try and make a real point next time.

Tucking_Friggered · February 2019

@Giddawid said:

@KingB said:
The more threads there are the more the devs will listen. Persistence is key.

Sometimes, one good thread is all it takes; with a good discussion, the pros and cons, the change itself, pros and cons of the change, and a summary of why it would improve the game. Aim for quality over quantity.

And yes, we are always happy to listen to your feedback

There is no way you said that with a straight face. I bet you had the office laughing like hyenas.

Gorgonia · February 2019

Giddawid said:

@KingB said:
The more threads there are the more the devs will listen. Persistence is key.

Sometimes, one good thread is all it takes; with a good discussion, the pros and cons, the change itself, pros and cons of the change, and a summary of why it would improve the game. Aim for quality over quantity.

And yes, we are always happy to listen to your feedback

So, how abour you finally address this issue? People have a lot of different ideas, good or not. Maybe try and consider working on this as a priority?

Warlock_2020 · February 2019

There is no easy fix for SWF. In and of itself, SWF is not toxic, nor a huge advantage. I destroy them on a regular basis with the Trapper using padded traps sometimes. If I can do it with Trapper, they can't be that great because I'm not a great killer and Trapper with padded traps is nothing to fear. That said, sure, there are those that are a biatch to face, just like there are some killers with certain perk builds that are tough. Spirit with prayer beads comes to mind.

The problem with any nerf in this game is that it hits disproportionately due to the variation in skill levels and how they impact the game. If you gave a 10% nerf across the board to all SWF action speeds, you would cause 80% of SWFs to get absolutely annihilated in 15 ranks of the game. Only 10% of the SWFs out there could handle that without breaking a sweat, the remaining 10% might find it a challenge.

Voice Comms - Most SWFs don't even use these correctly. They state crap that is obvious, "Its a Nurse!" Yeah? What gave that away, the sound of her screeching when she teleports? "Killer's chasing me!" Yeah, we noticed your icon was suddenly injured and you are running across the field. Heck, I've learned to use Comms against them. SWF member is looping me in a jungle gym and the rest are on a gen nearby. I hear the gen, but let the survivor loop me one more time and break line of sight before I peel off and grab one of the ones on the gen. I drop them to the ground and down a second. Just got 2 of them down because their buddy told them it was safe to keep working on that gen. Ooops! (I admit, this is not the norm, but there are some tricks that can be done.)

In all honesty, SWFs are not the overall problem. Most of the problem is in various perks, hit boxes, and how impactful a well organized group of survivors can be. Not sure how to fix that though, it is a glaring problem in the game and short of some full redesigns, or new game modes, there are not many options.

captainlongshlong · February 2019

@Warlock_2020 said:
There is no easy fix for SWF. In and of itself, SWF is not toxic, nor a huge advantage. I destroy them on a regular basis with the Trapper using padded traps sometimes. If I can do it with Trapper, they can't be that great because I'm not a great killer and Trapper with padded traps is nothing to fear. That said, sure, there are those that are a biatch to face, just like there are some killers with certain perk builds that are tough. Spirit with prayer beads comes to mind.

The problem with any nerf in this game is that it hits disproportionately due to the variation in skill levels and how they impact the game. If you gave a 10% nerf across the board to all SWF action speeds, you would cause 80% of SWFs to get absolutely annihilated in 15 ranks of the game. Only 10% of the SWFs out there could handle that without breaking a sweat, the remaining 10% might find it a challenge.

Voice Comms - Most SWFs don't even use these correctly. They state crap that is obvious, "Its a Nurse!" Yeah? What gave that away, the sound of her screeching when she teleports? "Killer's chasing me!" Yeah, we noticed your icon was suddenly injured and you are running across the field. Heck, I've learned to use Comms against them. SWF member is looping me in a jungle gym and the rest are on a gen nearby. I hear the gen, but let the survivor loop me one more time and break line of sight before I peel off and grab one of the ones on the gen. I drop them to the ground and down a second. Just got 2 of them down because their buddy told them it was safe to keep working on that gen. Ooops! (I admit, this is not the norm, but there are some tricks that can be done.)

In all honesty, SWFs are not the overall problem. Most of the problem is in various perks, hit boxes, and how impactful a well organized group of survivors can be. Not sure how to fix that though, it is a glaring problem in the game and short of some full redesigns, or new game modes, there are not many options.

At rank 1 the SWF groups I come up against clearly have a massive advantage. Not only are they decent individual players, but SWF also gives them the ability to to communicate verbally, strategise, bring complimenting perks, items, add ons to the game and use tactics that a non-SWF group would not use. As if it wasn't difficult enough to 4k at Rank 1.

SWF up until about Rank 5 is usually fine, but past that it's just breaks the game. It doesn't make any sense that in one game you can be playing against 4 skilled individual players and the next, you're playing against 4 skilled players playing as a team with voice communication. It's like going from normal difficulty to veteran for a killer.

SWF obviously doesn't make sense. Keep it in causal - it should have no place in ranked play.

Victory · February 2019

@Tucking_Friggered said:

@Victory said:

@Kamikaze_Rose said:
We don't like Cheat With Friends as much as you don't like hearing about Cheat With Friends, so the way I see it, we're all even.

Playing with your friends isn't cheating, I'm sorry you haven't any friends to play with. That is def not how you make any.

Killers can't form parties. We have plenty of friends in other killers. Try and make a real point next time.

Play survivor maybe? its 4v1. Survivors having friends isn't cheating thats the point, please read the statement before commenting. Killer isn't meant to, survivor is hence it being an actual FEATURE in the game, shocking.

Dolphin9192 · February 2019

@Victory said:

@Tucking_Friggered said:

@Victory said:

@Kamikaze_Rose said:
We don't like Cheat With Friends as much as you don't like hearing about Cheat With Friends, so the way I see it, we're all even.

Playing with your friends isn't cheating, I'm sorry you haven't any friends to play with. That is def not how you make any.

Killers can't form parties. We have plenty of friends in other killers. Try and make a real point next time.

Play survivor maybe? its 4v1. Survivors having friends isn't cheating thats the point, please read the statement before commenting. Killer isn't meant to, survivor is hence it being an actual FEATURE in the game, shocking.

No one ever said survivors having friends is cheating. SWF using voice comms is the cheat.

Tucking_Friggered · February 2019

@Victory said:

@Tucking_Friggered said:

@Victory said:

@Kamikaze_Rose said:
We don't like Cheat With Friends as much as you don't like hearing about Cheat With Friends, so the way I see it, we're all even.

Playing with your friends isn't cheating, I'm sorry you haven't any friends to play with. That is def not how you make any.

Killers can't form parties. We have plenty of friends in other killers. Try and make a real point next time.

Play survivor maybe? its 4v1. Survivors having friends isn't cheating thats the point, please read the statement before commenting. Killer isn't meant to, survivor is hence it being an actual FEATURE in the game, shocking.

Keep trying! You'll eventually understand the context of what you said and what I said.

AdánAR · February 2019

Some killers just can't stand go against SWF because they're not so skilled as killers. I go against SWF with my Spirit and i got 3/4 K. It's a matter of skill and use the right killer

Warlock_2020 · February 2019

@captainlongshlong said:

@Warlock_2020 said:
There is no easy fix for SWF. In and of itself, SWF is not toxic, nor a huge advantage. I destroy them on a regular basis with the Trapper using padded traps sometimes. If I can do it with Trapper, they can't be that great because I'm not a great killer and Trapper with padded traps is nothing to fear. That said, sure, there are those that are a biatch to face, just like there are some killers with certain perk builds that are tough. Spirit with prayer beads comes to mind.

The problem with any nerf in this game is that it hits disproportionately due to the variation in skill levels and how they impact the game. If you gave a 10% nerf across the board to all SWF action speeds, you would cause 80% of SWFs to get absolutely annihilated in 15 ranks of the game. Only 10% of the SWFs out there could handle that without breaking a sweat, the remaining 10% might find it a challenge.

Voice Comms - Most SWFs don't even use these correctly. They state crap that is obvious, "Its a Nurse!" Yeah? What gave that away, the sound of her screeching when she teleports? "Killer's chasing me!" Yeah, we noticed your icon was suddenly injured and you are running across the field. Heck, I've learned to use Comms against them. SWF member is looping me in a jungle gym and the rest are on a gen nearby. I hear the gen, but let the survivor loop me one more time and break line of sight before I peel off and grab one of the ones on the gen. I drop them to the ground and down a second. Just got 2 of them down because their buddy told them it was safe to keep working on that gen. Ooops! (I admit, this is not the norm, but there are some tricks that can be done.)

In all honesty, SWFs are not the overall problem. Most of the problem is in various perks, hit boxes, and how impactful a well organized group of survivors can be. Not sure how to fix that though, it is a glaring problem in the game and short of some full redesigns, or new game modes, there are not many options.

At rank 1 the SWF groups I come up against clearly have a massive advantage. Not only are they decent individual players, but SWF also gives them the ability to to communicate verbally, strategise, bring complimenting perks, items, add ons to the game and use tactics that a non-SWF group would not use. As if it wasn't difficult enough to 4k at Rank 1.

SWF up until about Rank 5 is usually fine, but past that it's just breaks the game. It doesn't make any sense that in one game you can be playing against 4 skilled individual players and the next, you're playing against 4 skilled players playing as a team with voice communication. It's like going from normal difficulty to veteran for a killer.

SWF obviously doesn't make sense. Keep it in causal - it should have no place in ranked play.

Ranked play has no meaning though. It is merely a number. I've seen the worst potatoes get Rank 1. Aside from that, 4k is not what the developers considered balanced. They stated their goal is 2k. Perhaps, SWF at rank 1 is more balanced than we think?

NoxiousOnnyyxx · February 2019

Because some killers can't handle a swf group. I'm not hating on them, it's just true.

ItsYourBoyGuzma · February 2019

Kamikaze_Rose said:

We don't like Cheat With Friends as much as you don't like hearing about Cheat With Friends, so the way I see it, we're all even.

Exactly

ItsYourBoyGuzma · February 2019

KingB said:

The more threads there are the more the devs will listen. Persistence is key.

I disagree, the devs will only listen if its in their best interests

NoShinyPony · February 2019

@KingB said:
@fcc2014 I dont dent solo players are underpowered against killers. The scale of balance is
1. Swf
2. Killers
3. Solo survivors.
I'm a p3 david and facing rank 7ish killers I play swf (without comms) and rarely get dodged. Last night out of 5 games 1 we got dodged and 1 was a dc at the start. The other 3 were normal games.

Playing killer is way harder than solo surv. If the solo survs know what they are doing, the killer still has a super hard time. And the solo survs don't even have to bring any 2nd-chance perks or items for that.

Of course, you'll lose games as a solo surv. But that usually happens because at least one or two survs were playing bad. It's not because the killer is so powerful.

NathanExplosion · February 2019

@Tucking_Friggered said:

@Giddawid said:

@KingB said:
The more threads there are the more the devs will listen. Persistence is key.

Sometimes, one good thread is all it takes; with a good discussion, the pros and cons, the change itself, pros and cons of the change, and a summary of why it would improve the game. Aim for quality over quantity.

And yes, we are always happy to listen to your feedback

There is no way you said that with a straight face. I bet you had the office laughing like hyenas.

Such respect for their paying customers LUL.

Swiftblade131 · February 2019

Maybe people are just getting sick of it?

Who'd have thought

NathanExplosion · February 2019

@Laakeri said:

Weirdkid5'd post had 90 pages on steam forums about SWF. If thats not enough feedback then I dont know what to say.

@Laakeri said:
Giddawid said:

@KingB said:

The more threads there are the more the devs will listen. Persistence is key.

Sometimes, one good thread is all it takes; with a good discussion, the pros and cons, the change itself, pros and cons of the change, and a summary of why it would improve the game. Aim for quality over quantity.

And yes, we are always happy to listen to your feedback

Weirdkid5'd post had 90 pages on steam forums about SWF. If thats not enough feedback then I dont know what to say.

The_Crusader · February 2019

The biggest issue, outside of toxicity is totems.

1 person finds it early, you chase them off, they tell their friends on the mic where it is and boom its gone during your first chase.

As if survivors spawning on it wasn't bad enough.

PiiFree · February 2019

Straight from Max Thompson Jr. diary I found in the Thompsons House;
................................................................................................
10th of February, 2019

Dear Diary
Today I wanted to get my last coin for the event cosmetics. I had a pretty rough workday already, lots of strangers showed up around my house and stole my stuff, broke my meathooks. So I thought I'll take a break from my daily business and go play survivor instead. Unfortunately, I figured that there were long waiting times and my fellow Killer friends often dodged, so after a while I decided to sacrifice myself once again and play Killer. As an experienced and confidend Killer, I never really pay attention to the lobby. This time it was a big mistake.

_I had almost forgotten how incredibly annoying SWFs can be, I even almost built up some sympathy towards them - but after a few minutes trying really hard to just get a few hooks, getting stabbed in my back not just once but four times, after they tried several times to make me blind and after they threw dozens of pallets in my face, I ran away from them. I just left. I couldn't take it anymore, my whole body hurt. _

I spend the next few minutes trying to avoid all contact with SWFs until I realized that pretty much EVERYONE is using SWF, so I gave up getting my coins and instead went over to my neighbour at Stardew Valley to drink a few bottles of whisky, hoping to calm down.

I think it broke something inside of me. Tomorrow has to be a better day....
................................................................................................

11th of February, 2019

...they found me again. Brb killing myself...
................................................................................................

NathanExplosion · February 2019

@PiiFree said:
Straight from Max Thompson Jr. diary I found in the Thompsons House

10th of February, 2019

Dear Diary
Today I wanted to get my last coin for the event cosmetics. I had a pretty rough workday already, lots of strangers showed up around my house and stole my stuff, broke my meathooks. So I thought I'll take a break from my daily business and go play survivor instead. Unfortunately, I figured that there were long waiting times and my fellow Killer friends often dodged, so after a while I decided to sacrifice myself once again and play Killer. As an experienced and confidend Killer, I never really pay attention to the lobby. This time it was a big mistake.

I had almost forgotten how incredibly annoying SWFs can be, I even almost built up some sympathy towards them - but after a few minutes trying really hard to just get a few hooks, getting stabbed in my back not just once but **four** times, after they tried several times to make me blind and after they threw dozens of pallets in my face, I ran away from them. I just left. I couldn't take it anymore, my whole body hurt.

I spend the next few minutes trying to avoid all contact with SWFs until I realized that pretty much EVERYONE is using SWF, so I gave up getting my coins and instead went over to my neighbour at Stardew Valley to drink a few bottles of whisky, hoping to calm down.

I think it broke something inside of me. Tomorrow has to be a better day.....
................................................................................................

11th of February, 2019

...they found me again. Brb killing myself...

That was so sad to read.

And so true...

You maybe want to put a quick end to this? Like most of us has already done ?

Victory · February 2019

@Tucking_Friggered said:

@Victory said:

@Tucking_Friggered said:

@Victory said:

@Kamikaze_Rose said:
We don't like Cheat With Friends as much as you don't like hearing about Cheat With Friends, so the way I see it, we're all even.

Playing with your friends isn't cheating, I'm sorry you haven't any friends to play with. That is def not how you make any.

Killers can't form parties. We have plenty of friends in other killers. Try and make a real point next time.

Play survivor maybe? its 4v1. Survivors having friends isn't cheating thats the point, please read the statement before commenting. Killer isn't meant to, survivor is hence it being an actual FEATURE in the game, shocking.

Keep trying! You'll eventually understand the context of what you said and what I said.

Glad you have no arguement left

Slayer · February 2019

PiiFree said:

@JohnTed said:
2 years, actually 110 hours in total.

Then it's no surprise that you think Ruin is OP.

I'll never stop saying this: Only bad Survivors are affected by Ruin.

While its true ruin still affects any kind of survivors you can still mess it up easily and doing gens is going to take longer especially if killer pressure gens

Slayer · February 2019

AdánAR said:

Some killers just can't stand go against SWF because they're not so skilled as killers. I go against SWF with my Spirit and i got 3/4 K. It's a matter of skill and use the right killer

Indeed. Just let killer know when he face swf let him prepare anti swf build . Killers have so many crutch addons , offerings(why nobody talks about that?) that they will crash any swf any day if they skilled enough.

Okapi · February 2019

@Slayer said:
Indeed. Just let killer know when he face swf let him prepare anti swf build . Killers have so many crutch addons , offerings(why nobody talks about that?) that they will crash any swf any day if they skilled enough.

If they did that survivors would complain about how they only face off against Nurses, Billys and Spirits. The solution to the SWF 'problem' is to add voice chat in-game and balance around that as the new baseline. Then the devs could add secondary objectives to extend the game, nerf Billy & Nurse, and buff every other killer.

powerbats · February 2019

@Okapi said:

@Slayer said:
Indeed. Just let killer know when he face swf let him prepare anti swf build . Killers have so many crutch addons , offerings(why nobody talks about that?) that they will crash any swf any day if they skilled enough.

If they did that survivors would complain about how they only face off against Nurses, Billys and Spirits. The solution to the SWF 'problem' is to add voice chat in-game and balance around that as the new baseline. Then the devs could add secondary objectives to extend the game, nerf Billy & Nurse, and buff every other killer.

Incorrect since most people aren't going to ue in game voice and listen to some screaming 12 year rant about not hook rushing to save them.

No one's going to use an in game function when they can use their own and talk shop with their friends, talk about work, school significant others etc.

There's a reason why the devs have never added this because they know the exact problems this would create F13 did it and look how that turned out.

Battlefield and COD have it and it's a toxic flamefest and people could just falsely report voice toxicity or be toxic knowing the odds are against them getting nailed.

Cymer · February 2019

The reason why so many are complaining about SWF isn't the SWFs themselves. SWFs are known to often use voice, what can give you an advantage over players without voice.
The devs will not react, because voice is something every player in theory has access to

You could in the pregame chat invite random players into your discord to use voice if you want
To set this up and join is easy and fast done. With the ready button the survivors as well the killer can delay the start of the match until everyone who would like to join voice has done so.

This fact alone is the reason why there will never be an official support for voice, because it is already here and everyone can decide to use it or not.

Another thing that people dislike and associate with SWFs are an increased level of toxicity towards fellow survivors outside the group and towards the killer.
Is it to show off in front of your friends, peer pressure or increased confidence because you know that someone potentially has your back.

Sorry no one wants to get bullied. That's why you also see so many posts about camping and tunneling.

Both tactics can be viable, but more often they are not. If I don't intentionally run a "camping build/basement build" I only "camp" when the survivors are swarming the poor guy on the hook. As with everything in life perception is everything and experience negative situations lingers on longer in our memories than good or neutral ones.

TL DR: no one likes to be bullied, left out or get the feeling of an unfair advantage.

So many anti-SWF posts

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