So many anti-SWF posts
I'm not saying swf doesn't have an advantage over the killer, at least most of the time, but do we really need 1000 posts about the same topic?
We are all allowed to tell our story, yet the story is uninteresting when we all tell the same story over and over again.
If you want to have SWF addressed, come up with interesting proposals, don't rant about how much you hate the game and blah blah blah... you might as well save it, we have heard about it, read about it more than a hundred times already.
And if you still want to talk about it and rant, there are hundreds of open posts about the same #########. Use your comment powers, they are really useful sometimes. Entitled whiners are always ignored. Be more intelligent if you want to put your ideas across.
love xx
Comments
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We don't like Cheat With Friends as much as you don't like hearing about Cheat With Friends, so the way I see it, we're all even.
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The problem with complaints about SWF is it discounts the fact that most of them are worse than solo survivors. Much as psychological studies have shown, we are impressed upon more by those traumatic, or more frustrating events and often see them as the norm.
I've been keeping track of as many matches as I can to see how many have either 2 swf groups or one of 3 or more. Easily 70% of matches in rank 8-12 range have them. I 3-4k most of them, but when you get that tight squad, it is tough! I'm happy with a 2k in those. I've honestly stopped fretting over them as much and almost enjoy those challenges now. I try to use them to get better.
To sum up, SWF is not the big bad we make it out to be (except perhaps at red ranks) and punishing them across the board will greatly damage the game, being that most are casuals that already get destroyed. Squashing the largest section of players to appease the smallest section is bad management. If we are to better balance that top end, then the answer lies in making tweaks based on red rank SWF groups.7 -
The more threads there are the more the devs will listen. Persistence is key.20
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The squeaky wheel gets greased (eventually... unless the owner just ignores it until it breaks).
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I never said I don’t like hearing about it. I have myself commented on how it should be changed in several posts. All I’m saying is that whining won’t progress as respected concern. People read people whining and move on.Kamikaze_Rose said:We don't like Cheat With Friends as much as you don't like hearing about Cheat With Friends, so the way I see it, we're all even.4 -
@Kamikaze_Rose said:
We don't like Cheat With Friends as much as you don't like hearing about Cheat With Friends, so the way I see it, we're all even.Playing with your friends isn't cheating, I'm sorry you haven't any friends to play with. That is def not how you make any.
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Don't worry about it - all the decent killers who don't care are playing the game.
It's only the bad ones on the forum complaining about it honestly.
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Lame and overused comeback. In any event, it is cheating, since the game isn't balanced around it.Victory said:@Kamikaze_Rose said:
We don't like Cheat With Friends as much as you don't like hearing about Cheat With Friends, so the way I see it, we're all even.Playing with your friends isn't cheating, I'm sorry you haven't any friends to play with. That is def not how you make any.
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It is not actually cheating. You are not abusing a forbidden feature or an exploit.10
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@SenzuDuck said:
Don't worry about it - all the decent killers who don't care are playing the game.It's only the bad ones on the forum complaining about it honestly.
That is something I noticed as well in the Steam forums actually.
People who often cry about SWF being a problem often don't have the Rank 10 Killer or Survivor Achievements.
Like, we get that you are frustrated, but why are you complaining about a feature in the game when you haven't even played enough to get the Rank 10 achievements on both sides?3 -
@Victory said:
@Kamikaze_Rose said:
We don't like Cheat With Friends as much as you don't like hearing about Cheat With Friends, so the way I see it, we're all even.Playing with your friends isn't cheating, I'm sorry you haven't any friends to play with. That is def not how you make any.
I think the term, "cheating" is the wrong word to use when it comes to SWF. Maybe people should associate the term, "unfair" instead. The reason I say this is because SWF have several perk abilities without using the actual perks. For example, they have Bond, Premonition, Spine Chill, Kindred, Window of Opportunity, Modified Boiled Over (body blocking), etc. Also the added fact that they can strategize loadout builds pre-game, know how many totems have been destroyed or if a Hex is in play without the game telling you, SWF can communicate through voice (no emotes) at an unlimited range throughout the map. It's these types of advantages that make people petition against SWF because it literally feels like a game cheat inside of a multiplayer game. I would like to reiterate that SWF tactics are legal (as stated by the devs) but it doesn't change the fact that it cheapens the co-op survival horror aspect of the game by taking away the fear of the unknown, the RNG aspect of the game, etc.
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Fine, it's unfair, then.βLAKE said:@Victory said:
@Kamikaze_Rose said:
We don't like Cheat With Friends as much as you don't like hearing about Cheat With Friends, so the way I see it, we're all even.Playing with your friends isn't cheating, I'm sorry you haven't any friends to play with. That is def not how you make any.
I think the term, "cheating" is the wrong word to use when it comes to SWF. Maybe people should associate the term, "unfair" instead. The reason I say this is because SWF have several perk abilities without using the actual perks. For example, they have Bond, Premonition, Spine Chill, Kindred, Window of Opportunity, Modified Boiled Over (body blocking), etc. Also the added fact that they can strategize loadout builds pre-game, know how many totems have been destroyed or if a Hex is in play without the game telling you, SWF can communicate through voice (no emotes) at an unlimited range throughout the map. It's these types of advantages that make people petition against SWF because it literally feels like a game cheat inside of a multiplayer game. I would like to reiterate that SWF tactics are legal (as stated by the devs) but it doesn't change the fact that it cheapens the co-op survival horror aspect of the game by taking away the fear of the unknown, the RNG aspect of the game, etc.
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If you cut out all the threads about SWF, camping, tunneling, overpowered perks, how every killer is both overpowered and underpowered, event whining, how toxic and/or salty the player base is, and BVHR sucks posts then you wouldn't even have forums.
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@Dreamnomad said:
If you cut out all the threads about SWF, camping, tunneling, overpowered perks, how every killer is both overpowered and underpowered, event whining, how toxic and/or salty the player base is, and BVHR sucks posts then you wouldn't even have forums.You should see the Steam Forums, it's literally only just that.
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You should just ignore those threads honestly. If you want to participate in so badly, you can always leave a comment and don't respond it later.
I do that to several type of threads. I don't even take a look at camping, tunneling, genrushing, remove DS and NOED, nurse is OP threads. Same ######### over and over again. People have the right to talk about it and there is not much reason to tell people to not talk about it.
The thing that they should do is to create pinned threads where people talk about hot topics like camping or SWF etc.
There are many very useful and beneficial threads but they get lost in this mess unfortunately.
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@Gorgonia
The fact that various people are posting about it will help get the devs attention as far doing something about it. One person voice is not enough compared to two+. It may take a while but a little effort is better than no effort.
I mean yeah there are some post that are ridiculous but as long as they are suggesting ways to make the game better than I am fine with it.2 -
@Delfador said:
There are many very useful and beneficial threads but they get lost in this mess unfortunately.I do know stuff like @Nickenzie 's threads gets washed up in a sea of complaints, when the stuff he has proposed would be amazing for the general QOL of the game.
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That’s another thing. Useful threads get lost in meaningless rantsDelfador said:You should just ignore those threads honestly. If you want to participate in so badly, you can always leave a comment and don't respond it later.
I do that to several type of threads. I don't even take a look at camping, tunneling, genrushing, remove DS and NOED, nurse is OP threads. Same ######### over and over again. People have the right to talk about it and there is not much reason to tell people to not talk about it.
The thing that they should do is to create pinned threads where people talk about hot topics like camping or SWF etc.
There are many very useful and beneficial threads but they get lost in this mess unfortunately.
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If posts really suggested ways to make the game better I wouldn’t have written this. Most of it is ranting and selfish whining.Iceman said:@Gorgonia
The fact that various people are posting about it will help get the devs attention as far doing something about it. One person voice is not enough compared to two+. It may take a while but a little effort is better than no effort.
I mean yeah there are some post that are ridiculous but as long as they are suggesting ways to make the game better than I am fine with it.1 -
I used to hate facing swf, and then I got better. I am not saying that I dont get wrecked by some groups, but there is no game ever made where I will be the best always. There will always be those who are better, in everything.
But you learn, and thats just that.
I got into this game by playing with my brother, and no, we dont use party chats (ps4), because that is not the reason we play it together. But this is a fun party game too, my friends and I never use voice chat, but to take away the ability to play with your friends, no thanks. I am a solo survivor 85% of the time, but those 15% with my brother or friends, is the most fun times ever. Not because we are toxic or epic in any way, we die as much as we survive....
Yes, some groups abuse it, I know, I face them every day (thats why I save my moris
)
But they far from ruin my game experience, because most of the time, they just think they are amazing and the matches are over quickly. Some matches makes me wanna pull my hair out and scream every bad word in every language I know, but after cracking up a new cold Monster and getting some fresh air, you realize that it was one bad apple in a huge bowl of better ones.
Everyhing got better after I realized that I am no gaming god that needs to win every time. Some games I rule, and some games I stand in the corner, hoping they will leave me alone 5 -
You hate SWF or you think its overpowered? Just learn how to play Nurse or start playing Legion, i always get 3k vs swf with Legion (3k because always the guy on the hook suicide to let his team mate to take the hatch) and sometimes even 4k. You don't want to play neither Nurse or Legion? Then deal with them, but after don't cry in the forums. I think that they are the only killers that can stop try-hard SWF.
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There are to many threads complaining about SWF. Let's open a new one, where I complain about the complaining.9
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We even need more threads such that sth finally happens after 3 years.Gorgonia said:I'm not saying swf doesn't have an advantage over the killer, at least most of the time, but do we really need 1000 posts about the same topic?
We are all allowed to tell our story, yet the story is uninteresting when we all tell the same story over and over again.
If you want to have SWF addressed, come up with interesting proposals, don't rant about how much you hate the game and blah blah blah... you might as well save it, we have heard about it, read about it more than a hundred times already.
And if you still want to talk about it and rant, there are hundreds of open posts about the same #########. Use your comment powers, they are really useful sometimes. Entitled whiners are always ignored. Be more intelligent if you want to put your ideas across.
love xx
Apparently we need to spam more, I will open another one later this day
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Well in that case either swf needs to be nerfed or all other killers have to get buffedAxelson said:You hate SWF or you think its overpowered? Just learn how to play Nurse or start playing Legion, i always get 3k vs swf with Legion (3k because always the guy on the hook suicide to let his team mate to take the hatch) and sometimes even 4k. You don't want to play neither Nurse or Legion? Then deal with them, but after don't cry in the forums. I think that they are the only killers that can stop try-hard SWF.
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I can't take all the credit, some of my ideas have been inspired by @weirdkid5 because I REAL feel like his suggestion will work to be honest!DelsKibara said:@Delfador said:
There are many very useful and beneficial threads but they get lost in this mess unfortunately.I do know stuff like @Nickenzie 's threads gets washed up in a sea of complaints, when the stuff he has proposed would be amazing for the general QOL of the game.
SWF Changes:
Basically, we need two party queues for the solos and SWF. SWF cannot join solos queues and vice versa to keep things simple. Solos will have an easier time reaching their pip zone while SWF will have to do a little more to reach theirs because they are expected to do better with voice communication. The killer will be rewarded with more BP whenever they are going against a SWF to compensate for the potentially increased difficulty.
Done and queues will remain the same as normal because we aren't directly splitting the player base in half.4 -
@Nickenzie said:
DelsKibara said:@Delfador said:
There are many very useful and beneficial threads but they get lost in this mess unfortunately.
I do know stuff like @Nickenzie 's threads gets washed up in a sea of complaints, when the stuff he has proposed would be amazing for the general QOL of the game.
I can't take all the credit, some of my ideas have been inspired by @weirdkid5 because I REAL feel like his suggestion will work to be honest!
SWF Changes:
Basically, we need two party queues for the solos and SWF. SWF cannot join solos queues and vice versa to keep things simple. Solos will have an easier time reaching their pip zone while SWF will have to do a little more to reach theirs because they are expected to do better with voice communication. The killer will be rewarded with more BP whenever they are going against a SWF to compensate for the potentially increased difficulty.
Done and queues will remain the same as normal because we aren't directly splitting the player base in half.
I can live with that. +1
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“cheating” but it’s a game mode..... ok.Kamikaze_Rose said:We don't like Cheat With Friends as much as you don't like hearing about Cheat With Friends, so the way I see it, we're all even.1 -
@Nickenzie Two separate party queues was already discussed a long time ago though. It would cause long wait times for SWF because no killers would want to go against them. They’ll look out for people loading in together and just dodge, same as always.Nickenzie said:
I can't take all the credit, some of my ideas have been inspired by @weirdkid5 because I REAL feel like his suggestion will work to be honest!DelsKibara said:@Delfador said:
There are many very useful and beneficial threads but they get lost in this mess unfortunately.I do know stuff like @Nickenzie 's threads gets washed up in a sea of complaints, when the stuff he has proposed would be amazing for the general QOL of the game.
SWF Changes:
Basically, we need two party queues for the solos and SWF. SWF cannot join solos queues and vice versa to keep things simple. Solos will have an easier time reaching their pip zone while SWF will have to do a little more to reach theirs because they are expected to do better with voice communication. The killer will be rewarded with more BP whenever they are going against a SWF to compensate for the potentially increased difficulty.
Done and queues will remain the same as normal because we aren't directly splitting the player base in half.
SWF isn’t that hard to beat. I’ve seen plenty of ######### SWF teams plenty of times. I’ve yet to see this full blown out death squad that’s here to embarrass the killer.1 -
@SenzuDuck said:
Don't worry about it - all the decent killers who don't care are playing the game.It's only the bad ones on the forum complaining about it honestly.
I don't agree with this. Even great killers can have problems killing SWF survivors if they know what they are doing (especially in red ranks). I am rank 3 survivor and rank 3 killer. If I get put in a game as killer against a good SWF team then I am lucky to get 1 or maybe 2 kills. The games are just very frustrating at times.
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At this point I've given up complaning about SWF if it's a 2-3 man, I'll just play normally, if it's a 4 man I'll whip out the trusty ol' Insidious LF with IG and Agitation. If you can't beat the toxcicity... join it.
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I mean yeah, making proposals would be better.
But anyone here knows SWF reels in that sweet money from Survivors.
No way are they gonna touch that mode for a long time, they're buffing solo Survivors...someday...1 -
@PinkEricka said:
@Nickenzie Two separate party queues was already discussed a long time ago though. It would cause long wait times for SWF because no killers would want to go against them. They’ll look out for people loading in together and just dodge, same as always.SWF isn’t that hard to beat. I’ve seen plenty of ######### SWF teams plenty of times. I’ve yet to see this full blown out death squad that’s here to embarrass the killer.
Really? Because I'm only on my third week of playing killer and I've seen them multiple times. The new death squad is a squad with like 4 toolboxes and prove thyself.
On topic: I used to really like SWF, but then my friends moved onto better games and I switched to playing killer and realized how ######### up SWF is.
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@Gorgonia said:
I'm not saying swf doesn't have an advantage over the killer, at least most of the time, but do we really need 1000 posts about the same topic?We are all allowed to tell our story, yet the story is uninteresting when we all tell the same story over and over again.
If you want to have SWF addressed, come up with interesting proposals, don't rant about how much you hate the game and blah blah blah... you might as well save it, we have heard about it, read about it more than a hundred times already.
And if you still want to talk about it and rant, there are hundreds of open posts about the same #########. Use your comment powers, they are really useful sometimes. Entitled whiners are always ignored. Be more intelligent if you want to put your ideas across.
love xx
I recommend watching Marths De Pip Squad Games on YoTube. He is kinda proof that with excellent exchange of information about where the killer is on the map it's almost impossible to even get one kill. And he plays 100 games to proof it.
Yesterday I had many of these games in red ranks. One swf timed Adrenaline perfectly to up 3 dying survivors at the same time. It was ridiculous, they all escaped with ease. The higher up you are the better they can loop. If you're unlucky all 4 of them can easily waste your time long enough to de pip you. To me the game is in a horrible horrible state.
Also some people here say Survivors have a 50% escape rate (idk where they have those numbers from) but the problem is that the communication creates a huge gap between SWF and non-SWF. If it's 50%, but 70% are SWF and 30% non-SWF so on average it's 50%...well, that doesn't make the game any better. It just shows that having both groups in the same pool is a bad idea. Especially in an asymmetrical environment. And it ends up in either super easy or super hard games for the killer.
If two groups of people would play a Call of Duty match you can still have a healthy ranking system with voice com. since it can still be 4 vs. 4 with the same game rules, it's symmetrical.
Post edited by IceD34ler on4 -
Agreed, @IceD34ler!
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Didnt weirdkid5's post have like 90 pages of feedback and devs ignored it? Feedback has been given, but devs refuse to do anything.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/381210/discussions/0/1480982338956455265/
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The question is how much of it is really SWF?
Nobody is denying that SWF have an advantage due to the co-ordination they have, however I'm sure we've all had a thousand games where the killer goes on a salty rant at the end about us being a 4 man swf even though we were playing solo.
I think they should show who was SWF at the end just so we can really see how common 3-4 man swf really is and how effective it is. Maybe some of the comments about it would decrease? Because right now it feels like people blame sll of their worst losses on swf even though that might not be the case.
Regardless, toxicity is definitely more of an issue with swf.3 -
@DelsKibara said:
@SenzuDuck said:
Don't worry about it - all the decent killers who don't care are playing the game.It's only the bad ones on the forum complaining about it honestly.
That is something I noticed as well in the Steam forums actually.
People who often cry about SWF being a problem often don't have the Rank 10 Killer or Survivor Achievements.
Like, we get that you are frustrated, but why are you complaining about a feature in the game when you haven't even played enough to get the Rank 10 achievements on both sides?Don't confuse SWF with Voice Communication.
SWF is a feature. Voice communication isn't.
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@PinkEricka said:
Kamikaze_Rose said:We don't like Cheat With Friends as much as you don't like hearing about Cheat With Friends, so the way I see it, we're all even.
“cheating” but it’s a game mode..... ok.
I think he means using voice comunication, not the game mode itself.
Anyway, it's unfair, not cheating.2 -
@IamFran said:
@PinkEricka said:
Kamikaze_Rose said:We don't like Cheat With Friends as much as you don't like hearing about Cheat With Friends, so the way I see it, we're all even.
“cheating” but it’s a game mode..... ok.
I think he means using voice comunication, not the game mode itself.
Anyway, it's unfair, not cheating.Lol, UWF, Unfair With Friends.
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@Nickenzie What would prevent survivors from re-queing into the solo que over and over again until they got into a room with their friends like they did prior to the introduction of the SWF option?Nickenzie said:
I can't take all the credit, some of my ideas have been inspired by @weirdkid5 because I REAL feel like his suggestion will work to be honest!DelsKibara said:@Delfador said:
There are many very useful and beneficial threads but they get lost in this mess unfortunately.I do know stuff like @Nickenzie 's threads gets washed up in a sea of complaints, when the stuff he has proposed would be amazing for the general QOL of the game.
SWF Changes:
Basically, we need two party queues for the solos and SWF. SWF cannot join solos queues and vice versa to keep things simple. Solos will have an easier time reaching their pip zone while SWF will have to do a little more to reach theirs because they are expected to do better with voice communication. The killer will be rewarded with more BP whenever they are going against a SWF to compensate for the potentially increased difficulty.
Done and queues will remain the same as normal because we aren't directly splitting the player base in half.1 -
@RWoodrow said:
Nickenzie said:
DelsKibara said:@Delfador said:
There are many very useful and beneficial threads but they get lost in this mess unfortunately.
I do know stuff like @Nickenzie 's threads gets washed up in a sea of complaints, when the stuff he has proposed would be amazing for the general QOL of the game.
I can't take all the credit, some of my ideas have been inspired by @weirdkid5 because I REAL feel like his suggestion will work to be honest!
SWF Changes:
Basically, we need two party queues for the solos and SWF. SWF cannot join solos queues and vice versa to keep things simple. Solos will have an easier time reaching their pip zone while SWF will have to do a little more to reach theirs because they are expected to do better with voice communication. The killer will be rewarded with more BP whenever they are going against a SWF to compensate for the potentially increased difficulty.
Done and queues will remain the same as normal because we aren't directly splitting the player base in half.
@Nickenzie What would prevent survivors from re-queing into the solo que over and over again until they got into a room with their friends like they did prior to the introduction of the SWF option?
When the game detects frequent lobby dodges with the ping in the yellow or green, it will start punishing them for continuously doing so.
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It's almost like killers have tools to their disposal to actively avoid SWF if it triggers them so much. Not to mention they have an even easier time doing it now because killer queues are so short while survivor queue times are longer
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Yea but you're totally fine with the killers that dodge for items or being Claudette right? I had someone just tell me yesterday if two toolboxes entered a lobby they were gone lmao the devs have stated SWF was always intended it's the voice communication that's broken, I think it should be like Friday with built in comms where you can talk to your team when you're within a certain meter range but can't when you're far away from them, the killers and survivors can't communicate though because it would make for an extremely more toxic environment than it is now and I don't think it's a good ideaBoss said:@RWoodrow said:
Nickenzie said:
DelsKibara said:@Delfador said:
There are many very useful and beneficial threads but they get lost in this mess unfortunately.
I do know stuff like @Nickenzie 's threads gets washed up in a sea of complaints, when the stuff he has proposed would be amazing for the general QOL of the game.
I can't take all the credit, some of my ideas have been inspired by @weirdkid5 because I REAL feel like his suggestion will work to be honest!
SWF Changes:
Basically, we need two party queues for the solos and SWF. SWF cannot join solos queues and vice versa to keep things simple. Solos will have an easier time reaching their pip zone while SWF will have to do a little more to reach theirs because they are expected to do better with voice communication. The killer will be rewarded with more BP whenever they are going against a SWF to compensate for the potentially increased difficulty.
Done and queues will remain the same as normal because we aren't directly splitting the player base in half.
@Nickenzie What would prevent survivors from re-queing into the solo que over and over again until they got into a room with their friends like they did prior to the introduction of the SWF option?
When the game detects frequent lobby dodges with the ping in the yellow or green, it will start punishing them for continuously doing so.
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I hate SWF not because hey are annoyingly hard to fight but because they try their hardest to be toxic.
in this game i was playing huntress and i just camped one survivor because everybody was trying to rescue him
t
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Nothings going to change if we don't express our concerns about the game. The SWF issue is actively being ignored, Until there's an official statement saying they are working on balancing SWF and how, expect these threads to keep popping up.
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@Gorgonia said:
I'm not saying swf doesn't have an advantage over the killer, at least most of the time, but do we really need 1000 posts about the same topic?We are all allowed to tell our story, yet the story is uninteresting when we all tell the same story over and over again.
If you want to have SWF addressed, come up with interesting proposals, don't rant about how much you hate the game and blah blah blah... you might as well save it, we have heard about it, read about it more than a hundred times already.
And if you still want to talk about it and rant, there are hundreds of open posts about the same #########. Use your comment powers, they are really useful sometimes. Entitled whiners are always ignored. Be more intelligent if you want to put your ideas across.
love xx
the solution is an option for matchmaking in SWF only (+25% BP)
I DO like playing against SWF since it is more challenging and they take higher risk
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@IronKnight55 said:
@SenzuDuck said:
Don't worry about it - all the decent killers who don't care are playing the game.It's only the bad ones on the forum complaining about it honestly.
I don't agree with this. Even great killers can have problems killing SWF survivors if they know what they are doing (especially in red ranks). I am rank 3 survivor and rank 3 killer. If I get put in a game as killer against a good SWF team then I am lucky to get 1 or maybe 2 kills. The games are just very frustrating at times.
And so what if they "have trouble" killing them? I have trouble killing solo players too, why should killing be a cake walk and surviving be impossible?
you're acting as if working for your kills should be abolished and it should all be handed to you, it's utterly ridiculous.
and you not being able to get one or two kills has nothing to with SWF.
If a survivor runs you the entire game they'd have done that with solo anyway, stop acting as if SWF lets people loop better.
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Sorry, what is SWF???
0
