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why does nobody mindgame anymore??
something ive noticed alot recently is that killers arent moonwalking or hiding their red stain in chase anymore??
just seems weird since when i first started, mindgaming has always been a thing consistently in my matches but for the past i dunno 6 months it feels like i havent seen a killer actively do it in a match.
to the killer mains, is it pointless to try to mindgame?
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Because strongest mind-game counter is still in game, Dead Hard. Killer outplays you, click E to safety.
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EEEEEEEEEEEE
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Can't really mindgame someone that just runs from pallet to pallet.
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I can't mindgame notorious W Shifters.
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People got too used to every killer having anti-loop at basekit so they don't have to anymore, and so survivors adapted to begin holding W and chaining tiles much more than looping a single one meaning they became less effective. It's seemingly a relic only players from before year 4 know how to do and when to do it.
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Most of the time people who want to play a tile have DH, and when they don't, they W the heck out of there most of the time. A lot of holding W these days.
We'll see how that changes over the few weeks after the update and the death of DH sets in.
Personally, I find the 1v1 at tiles get tedious after a while, unless you're at low MMR, both parties know the mindgames, and it just becomes a matter of who makes the first wrong prediction. I'll usually try a couple mindgames, but I'm not going to waste a ton of time at a tile, especially if the team is pushing gens.
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I dunno man. Take a look at the 2 latest maps and maybe u will find the answer. Is it broken main buildings? Is it an abundance of safe and god loops? Or maybe is it IW and DH punishing the killer for outplaying? I dunno
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cause the majority of chase gameplay these days are shift + w, every time u try it, people will just move over to another tile, it's not worth the risk of losing your track on them.
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As others have said, the risk for mind gaming rather then brute forcing is high. Due to this as killer, you should only mind game rarely so you catch people off guard.
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Survivors stopped so I stopped.
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There is no reward to it. Why would I want to play a mindgame I could lose (or get cheated out of with a perk like Dead Hard), when I can just kick your pallet and? I'd rather lose 3 seconds of chase time than 10+. The risk is not worth it. I mess up a mind game, you get a whole tile of distance. Not worth it.
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Old e key (dead hard) has made it to risky to mindgame. You lose a lot of time just to bait out an exhaustion perk so onga bungaing thrpugh pallets is your bedt shot to get anything. Some are gonna lament dead hard and in someway i do. But after it got "more consistent" the perk became a massive nusciance actively discouraging the fun part of dbd chases the mindgames.
My strategy with bubba used to be red stain hiding moon walking and all that jazz but now i dont even bother with my m1 unless there way out in a dead zone. Most of the way i play tiles is forcing pallets and creating dead zones.
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As fair play Killer who chase other and let unhooked healed before back to the game. Im glad DH go, I cant stand people having 3rd heal stage every chase.
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Yeah, it's not because of dead hard. I am so glad dead hard is gone but that is not the reason for the lack of mindgaming. I still mindgame myself, but a good majority of the time, I am at the tile alone because the survivor just went to the next one. It is a little sad but I get it. A large factor of fun in the game are the mindgames.
To look at the differently, account for leaving the tile as another possible option, try to mindgame so they leave the tile. I'll always throw in mindgames, just because that is what makes the game fun.
Some windows on some maps, I completely agree. New Haddonfield and Garden of Joy kind of highlight it.
I see people saying there is no reward to it, mindgaming, these aren't the same people complaining that gens are too slow right? If you kick every pallet, you are going to lose.
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The counter to most killers is predropping pallets and holding W. There is not counterplay from the killer side unless they play nurse or blight. I heard the new Haddonfield was supposed to be more balanced after the update, but my experience was just as miserable as before. There still are a lot of god pallets and a lot of strong af windows along with houses of pain. Ig the only good that came of it was the removal of the 100m long fences
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because nobody likes playing guess games apparently
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The thing is that it's generally more time effective to brute foce the pallet instead of going around the corner with a moonwalk to find out that the survivor left the loop to the next tile losing more time and not getting rid of any resources. With that pallet still up they can bounce between those two loops untell you force one of the pallets.
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If it is a strong pallet with windows nearby to combine loops, sure. But you should not go and break every pallet. Plenty of them you can play, even after dropped.
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What do you mean "nobody"?
I've "always" been doing it and a lot of the killers I verse are doing it too.
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Safe loops can not be played around once the pallet has been dropped and on most maps safe loop vastly out number unsafe loops. Yes you really shouldn't be breaking unsafe pallets or pallets that survivors drop and take off but if your at a safe loop and the pallet gets dropped your only chance of catching that survivor is bl 2 or 3 and you have probably lost the game at that point.
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its more like if you guess wrong, you are downed and then camped to death. The consequences of being wrong are very high. Plus many (all?) recent killers have very strong anti loop toolkit. As a survivor, if my chances of survival are low by looping I'll predrop and run to next tile. This keeps me playing the game longer. I don't like hanging on a hook, its boring.
There are some tiles that I always loop at because I can with some success like the saloon in dead dawg, but most killers will hardly enter that building for exactly the reason I like it. It makes sense Killers can win the game if they just ignore that one building. Let the survivors have it, there's only one generator there.
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Yeah, it is good change. It punished killer for playing good and rewarded survivor for their mistake.
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I hope I get you as my killer then. So friendly 🙃
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You might see more of it with iron will and holding W getting nerfed. There's no mindgames to be had when the survivor is running in a straight line and instadropping, as for iron will you can moonwalk all you like around tiles but they ran off ten minutes ago
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I dont use any 2nd chance for 2 years, its easy to get me for any killers.
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I personally haven't seen or done less of it.
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I still see it sometimes and I still mindgame, it’s just harder when survivors like to hold W the first chance they get especially when you basically have to against certain killers.
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Because antiloop killers and bloodlust
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Pretty much, I did it a lot more when I first started, now almost every chase immediately turns into tile chaining or a flat out W chase across the entire map. To the point where a surv who actually plays a tile surprises me so much I botch it.
And the ones who still do it tend to be long timers who are really good at it, and I drop pretty quickly.
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Basically mind games are getting less relevant game wise.
Most loops you can see through or over, or have a single way to run them and those that don't have a pretty standard play that most experienced players know or chain into other loops making mind games again kinda irrelevant.
This makes mind games are a bit of a gamble, there is nothing wrong with that but when missing a mind game is only mildly costly to survivors while being extremely costly to killers it plays less of a role in killer chases. This is before you factor in something like DH where you win the mind game but still suffer the costly miss.
About the only real value I get outa moonwalking these days is the backward bubba saw and even then I generally know where the survivor is when I do that so I'm only moonwalking to catch them with the saw.
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Pretty much this. Looping has pretty much become a relic because of all the anti-loop killers that have been introduced. It's unfortunately because it just dumbs down the game.
Also, why worry about how long a chase takes, because you can just face-camp or tunnel a survivor out at gen 5. If survivors don't have 3 gens done by the time you tunnel someone out, then you've won the game.
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I have no idea what mindgame, moonwalking, tile or any of these other dbd terms mean. Is there a dictionary of unnecessary reference words online somewhere that I could read so that I could decipher what the heck people are referring to in proper English?
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Mindgame: using obstacles that obscure you in a chase to feign a different direction and catch the other side off-guard. e.g. look like your running one way behind a wall, stop and go the other way, while you're hidden.
Moonwalking: walking backwards as a killer around the edge of a loop so that you don't give yourself away with your red stain.
Tile... seriously? This you must be aware of. Each map is made of tiles, each 'loop' structure is a tile.
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Thank you very much!
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I can’t speak for anybody else but I mindgame all the time.
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How does giving killers equal agency in loops dumb down the game? there are many positions that not only cannot be mindgamed, but are also a guaranteed bloodlust reset as well as distance gain (forced pallet breaks) if killers specifically don't have a way to get around them. The problem is the same as it has always been, with map design itself.
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Dumbing down the game is making every new Killer completely anti-loop so the only option you have as survivor is to hold-w. Being able to run a survivor down and face camp them out of the game and win when you really didn't do anything is dumbing down the game.
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Not looping definitely makes the game more boring, but the "dumbing down" is marginal. Even at top level, looping isn't the game of 4D galaxy brain chess some make it out to be. More like a series of coin flips.
If DbD ever gets an overhaul or new iteration, I'd like to see a new mechanic that isn't "dance around a loop" or "flee in a straight line until the killer runs you down". What that might look like I don't know, but I do feel like DbD feels pretty binary most days.
And sure you can tunnel or face camp, but most actually don't, really.
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Oh, i didnt realize they went back and gave anti-loop to all the M1 killers. also facecamping has literally nothing to do with the complexity of chases, if anything its a symptom of how bad many chase positions are that it would be considered necessary even at high skilled play.
If anything, survivors needing to make a read on whether to stay at a loop or break away from it while the killer slows down to set up their anti-loop (artist and dredge especially) adds MORE layers than removes them.
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When you remove options, like looping and mind-gaming, then it's dumbing down pretty bad. Especially when this game use to be all about mind-gaming.
You may be coming from this from a killer perspective and from a killer perspective the game is very immersive. There's a lot of stuff you can do as killer. However, if you played survivor significantly, you would notice that survivor options to do stuff have been removed. Mind-gaming has been removed, being immersive has been removed, perk variety has been reduced. It's almost become a game of hold-w for survivors.
As for camping and tunneling from gen 5. I see it about 1 in every 4 games or 1 in every 3. Not sure if you consider that rare or not.
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The amount of survivor options is plenty as long as you actually understand loops and tiles themselves. While there are occasionally dead zones, there are far less than you might think. Windows is absolutely amazing at all levels of skill for routing chases in advance and making sure you approach that unseeable window at a proper angle to get a fast vault, or knowing whether or not that pallet around the corner has been used by a previous survivor. It even helps you route chases in a way that spreads out pallet usage in order to prevent leaving deadzones for others. This combined with the absurd amount of counterplay possible with most killers (including anti-loop ones) gives you a lot more potential as a survivor than you might think.
Every time I play killer its pretty much exclusively to get a daily out of the way. and every time I do, I'm learning more about how to counter that killer and how to be more efficient as survivor based on what i get matched up against.
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I play the game at almost an even 50/50 split (probably like 60/40 in favor of surv over the past year or so), so I feel like I come at this from a balanced perspective. I agree that many options have been removed against certain killers. Most of the killer roster you can still treat as you always have. There are maybe 5-6 killers who I feel like I have to abandon loops against.
I also feel like people get stuck in a blanket approach to how they play; like "I have to do the W thing because anti-loop" and carry that into games where they really don't have to. Conversely, I see killer players who will try to force killers weak in chase into looping scenarios instead of doing what works for that killer, because they play with a one size fits all mindset.
Sometimes a match centers on the 1v1, sometimes it shouldn't.
RE: camping/tunneling, as a survivor, I see what I consider to be camping maybe one out of every 10 games. Full on, blatant facecamping like once a week (or more depending on the number of Bubbas I draw). Tunneling is more common, but still only in a minority of the games I play.
Granted different people will define these terms differently, and I tend to think that survs with little or no killer experience legit feel much of the time like they're being camped/tunneled when they really aren't.
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gens flying so fast, there is no time to mindgame!
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Similar to what GoodBoyKaru said, half of the killer roster (specifically the newer killers) have some sort of anti-loop in their power. And because of that, there's no need to try and mindgame survivors. In response, survivors learned to hold W since it's proven to be more effective against anti-loop killers.
But something else I've noticed is the amount of people that complain about w-keying, almost as if that's not the counter to most of the killers in this game.
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Out of curiosity (since it seems to be a point of debate), which killers do people feel like they have to W key? For me it's a minority:
Don't really even try to loop, or only briefly:
Artist, Executioner, Nurse, Doctor, and maybe Nemesis
Loop only on certain maps with high walled loops:
Huntress, Slinger, Trickster
I'm on the fence about Dredge, but the rest I feel can be looped consistently
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fair enough lol
i feel so dumb not noticing this ://
especially since ive been playing regularly again for a while
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yeah i understand most tiles arent even tall enough to hide the killer alone!! lol
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in most loops mindgaming is actually pointless, it matters for some tile but that's it.
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i like the way you play
yes the "feeling" of the game is different and saturated.
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artist & dredge come to the top of my head.
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