proximity to hook penalty should be disabled in endgame
Off The Record and Decisive Strike get disabled in the endgame, but why is the penalty still a thing?
For the most part, hard camping is the only play a killer can make in the endgame due to the distance between hooks and the number of loops/pallets in between. Nothing wrong with hard camping in the endgame as survivors had a match and this play is like a match within the match, yet the killer can get punished by doing well here by this penalty.
The penalty should be disabled in the endgame and I've also heard that hard camping has increased since the mid-chapter release, so disabling it in the endgame does provide the option to massively increase the penalty during the match when hard camping shouldn't be done, granted BHVR doesn't want players hard camping which very much seems likely to me.
Comments
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No. Just don't camp. Lmao. Survivors have already had their most useful perks taken away as soon as the gate opens. There's no excuse.
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Camping in endgame is 100% justifiable though
You don't need an excuse, it's quite literally all you can do unless you want to give free rescues
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What do you expect the killer to do once the gens are done and especially if the gates are open and they have a survivor on the hook and no one else in sight? Just take a walk and take the L?
You got base kit Borrowed Time now. Dive in get that save from that camper! Who knows you might have fun, Entity forbid.
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I think it should be increased by 150%, and the survivor you camped should get awarded the blood for this fine.
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Killers just got ALLLLLLLL these buffs, survivors can no longer use DS or Off The Record after the gates are powered, and you're worried about a proximity bonus?
Hook someone and push the remaining survivors out the gate. It's simple. There's no excuse for camping unless survivors are griefing or farming a hook. And there's even less excuse now that you don't have to worry about DS.
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It's really not though. DS is no longer applicable. Keep downing survivors, use Blood Warden for the hits, or force them out. Or, and hear me out, win the match before the gates are powered since gen speeds have been slowed down per Killer Main™️ request. It's not that deep.
Imagine wasting your time playing Standing Still Because I Got 1k Simulator when you could be pursuing extra hits. Lmao.
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There is absolutely nothing wrong with securing a 1k out of a losing game
There's no gens to defend and gates get 99'd. Unless you're a high mobility killer, you aren't getting much more.
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win the match before the endgame? do you even play the game? do you realize how fast gens can be done before a killer can get 4 hooks never mind 8-12 hooks? new increased gen speed hasn't changed anything before you try and say that.
Most players on both sides actually enjoy the hard camping play in the endgame, it really is not a big deal and why proximity to hook penalty should be disabled in the endgame.
1k is still a loss but I have no issue camping as for me, I can maybe turn that 1k into a 2k for the draw and sometimes been able to turn it into a 3k for a win.
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There's also nothing wrong with accepting that you've lost, instead of try-harding just to get virtual points in a video game.
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Ahaha what???
"You've already lost, so let us rescue and all escape"
What kind of entitlement is that? I'm sorry but what
Camping 1 person out to get a kill is not tryharding, get a grip.
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After letting all 5 generators get done and the gates opening without getting a single kill, the game is pretty much lost. You have 2 options:
- Show good sportsmanship, still do your best without standing still in front of the hook
- Resort to face camping just to maybe get that 1k, and still lose the match.
I suppose it's a matter of maturity, some people realize games are just for fun and you don't win every match, while others just care about winning and can't accept a loss
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Good sportsmanship is playing to win until the game actually ends mate
Just giving up when all gens are done is anti-climatic and boring as hell. Both sides
It's not over until it's over. Be it 1k or 4 man out
I know being camped isn't fun but AT LEAST when it's in the endgame it's completely understandable and it shouldn't be stigmatised. It's not bad sportsmanship nor does it have anything to do with maturity.
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It's like you didn't even read my message.
I never said to give up.
You can try to get kills WITHOUT standing still 5 inches in front of the survivor on the hook.
You can keep trying with good sportsmanship instead of resorting to bad manners.
Imagine the opposite scenario, if the survivors lost hard:
Only 1 generator got done, 3 survivors got killed and the killer found and closed the hatch, and is chasing the final survivor.
Now, the survivor can also choose to be a good sport or a bad sport. You could keep trying to escape the killer and loop to the best of your ability... oooor you could run over to a pallet and start spam crouching to taunt the killer.
Like, you can be a good sport AND try your best, you don't have to resort to salty behavior and bad manners
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Implying securing a kill is bad sportsmanship comparable to tbagging
It's not
Especially not in the endgame
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Face camping is not the same as securing a kill.
If you do that against most experienced survivors, they'd force you to hit one of them while another one goes for the rescue, then body block for each other and everyone would escape 🙂
Face camping is 100% bad manners done by people who get salty and don't know how to properly play the game.
If you REALLY want to secure a kill you'd try to injure the other survivors and force them out of the gate.
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Face camping, proxy camping - this is just semantics
If all gens are done and I hook a dude, I'm not leaving the area until he's dead or someone trades
It's not BM or w/e. That's the gist of it and there's nothing wrong with it
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This. 100%.
Esp with unhook endurance now, facecamping is just a waste of time and a clown move.
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Yes, I play the game, and still manage to secure kills or end the game with good sportsmanship without facecamping. Facecamping is for zero-skill players who can't handle the loss of one hook and either don't have the ability to effectively end the match before the gates are open, or know they are unable to pursue any other remaining survivors. It's a garbage play and camping hook with more than 1 survivor remaining should absolutely be penalized. Period.
TL; DR learn how to control your maps with all these shiny new killer buffs y'all just got or take the L with grace and say your GGs.
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Face camping / Proxy camping are different things. ... Unless you're the kind of person who uses pledge and donate synonymously.
Nobody's expecting you to fully ignore the person on the hook. But the OP was talking about proximity penalty, implying close proximity to the hook.
You don't have to stand right next to a hook to proxy camp and keep track of what's happening over there. Depending on the killer, there are other more advantageous ways to position yourself and making sure the rescue is unsuccessful. ... Unless you're Bubba, then you just stand there. But that's why nobody likes Bubba.
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But you're still camping
Staring in the face or not
Yes they are different but it's the same goal: Securing a kill when all gens are done.
So again, I make the assertion camping in the endgame is perfectly fine and killers shouldn't be penalised for it nor is it bad sportsmanship.
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🤪 I give up with you.
Clearly you don't understand the difference between good and bad sportsmanship.
If you think two different methods are the same just because they share the same goal, then i don't know what to tell you.
If your goal is to become a millionaire, and you get a choice between earning it, or robbing a bank, surely you could distinguish which option is good and which option is bad.
Similarly, if your goal is to secure a 1k during endgame collapse, and your option is to either just stand 5 inches in front of the hook like a sack of salty potatoes, or tactically keeping an eye on the hooked person while searching the area for other survivors... in this case there's an option where you're just playing to the best of your abilities, and an option where you're just a salty poor sport.
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playing the game a way you specifically don't like = bad sportsmanship
give me a break
don't take getting camped so personally, the killer probably forgets you even exist after the match ends
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If the other three survivors are up, and the hook is not right next to the gates, going away to push people out the gate is asking for a survivor to go around you, unhook, and then run off somewhere to heal or beeline for the opposite gate while the ones at the gate try to hold your attention for as long as they possibly can. Guaranteed if they're on comms; in solo, it comes down to individual altruism or cowardice. Point is, if you leave the hook to do something that takes longer than ten seconds, you'd better get a down, because you've probably lost the one you had. And getting a down when the gates are 99ed/opened and everyone is hanging around them is not easy.
I'm not really fussed about kills one way or the other, but you're pushing an openly subpar, easier to counter strategy and then insulting people for sticking with what's more reliable. Telling a killer not to try and get a kill at the end is like telling a survivor not to try for hatch and to just stand there and take their L like a man instead. It's not reasonable to tell the other side they can't try to eke out what victories they can.
I look down on facecamping at every other point of the match, BM revenge aside, but c'mon. There's no other intelligent thing for the killer to do at that point.
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Yep.
Completely agree, well said
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I read your first line and rolled my eyes, that zero skill and good sportsmanship are reserved for killers that camp/tunnel when gens still to be done, in the endgame, survivors have had a match and their fun, I get kills as well by playing straight up and even 4k before the endgame. That doesn't mean I'm not wrong about the proximity to hook penalty needed disabled in the endgame, which is what this thread is mainly about.
I can't believe someone is actually arguing over such a simple change, the playing community is the reason why this game is in the shape it is and this mid-chapter release hasn't fixed anything.
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Playing ANY game involving other people, whether it's a video game, or a board game on family game night, and you act in a way that intentionally annoys the other participants due to your own behavior... that's the definition of poor sportsmanship.
It's easy for people like you to forget that everyone involved in a game is a person, trying to have a good time. Just because two people are on the opposite team doesn't mean they're enemies, and it doesn't mean it's alright to behave poorly
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"I'm the killer and I'm trying to make sure you die because all gens are done" = "I don't see you as a person, i'm intentionally trying to ruin your match"
Sound logic my guy. Talk about a reach
I don't care if being camped during endgame annoys you, I'm not doing it TO annoy you, I'm doing it to secure a kill out of a losing game. If you have a problem with it, don't get caught during endgame. Simple as
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You're 100% right if they had said there was nothing wrong with hard camping or tunnelling at any point in a match but they didn't.
They agreed with me that there was nothing wrong with camping/tunnelling in the endgame, there is NOTHING wrong with that, survivors have had their fun and this is a different style of play to round the match off.
Laluzi stated it perfectly above what were saying and why there is nothing wrong with hard camping in the endgame. I'm not saying it's OK for killer to face camp but being at the hook in the endgame is fine, it's legit the only play a killer has if there are 3+ survivors left in the match.
Also as a general reply and not to the above comment, there are 3 types of camping
1) face camping = killer stands in front of the hook and just stares at killer
2) hard camping = killer stands near the hook but is moving around keeping an eye out for other survivors
3) proxy camping = leaving the hook, coming back after not finding someone as they know someone going to unhook
I'm against face camping at all times, hard camping while gens are still to be done but not in the endgame, nothing wrong with proxy camping as long as you don't tunnel a person off-hook
Proximity to hook penalty should be disabled in endgame so it doesn't punish hard camping, but it should be increased to punish hard camping while gens still to be done.
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i have given you plenty of comparisons between trying to secure a kill with good behavior, and trying to do it with poor behavior.
I can only explain it to you, but I cannot understand it for you.
I never said I'm annoyed by getting face camped. I absolutely love it. Because I know I'll get away (as I explained earlier why face camping is a dumb tactic to begin with), and it's always funny to watch bad behavior fail when the other survivors come to the rescue 😀
But compared to you, I don't only look at things from my own perspective, and I'm aware that there are a lot of people who hate getting face camped.
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You're entitled to your opinion but I do not agree :)
I think that's all that really needs to be said
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you're right, I care about the enjoyment of everyone in games I play and not just my own, and you're entitled to disagree with that way of thinking 👌
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no need to say it out loud I'm sure we're all convinced
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Here is a actual scenario that just happend...
I just hooked someone and the gates have just been opened...
I now proximity camp the hook.
Survivor comes along and tries to unhook, i grab them and throw them on the floor, another comes along and tries the same thing immediately after i dropped the survivor, i get another grab and throw that survivor on the floor. I now chase the remaining survivor and get them too.
4K's.
Yet if i was "Mature" and "took the loss" i would of had zero kills.
Camping is and can be valid and those who moan about it are the actual ones who should "be mature and take the loss".
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Nothing like the "Force them out" with exit gates 99, and not knowing where the remaining survivors are. And people still dare to say that leaving a hook in the endgame isnt giving a free rescue
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Dang it's crazy how I'm not even going to bother reading any responses that condone camping outside of fighting an aggressive squad farming hook.
Anyway--
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yeah, you can turn a bad game into a really good game with strong endgame play, I went from 0 hooks to Adept Onryo and 4k but I also did really well with Shape and got 3 hook exchanges, but then got severely punished by the proximity to hook penalty and I'm bringing the thread back to that, after all, my suggestion is to remove that in the endgame but it going towards camping yes or no.
I never bothered reading your response due to my reaction to the first part of your response, how anyway can't see the difference between hard camping during the endgame and hard camping during the match is beyond me, but you being you, even if you're wrong.
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"But what about the enjoyment of xxx..?"
Listen, there's a big difference between someone directly causing grief to another person, and someone simply not enjoying a situation. You could not enjoy a situation for a multitude of reasons, and if that reason is simply that you're losing in a game, then there's nobody to blame. You win some, you lose some. But if you then decide to behave in a way that you know is hated by the other players of the game, then you are making a conscious decision to ruin the enjoyment of somebody else. You are the direct cause of grief in the other person. For example, survivors taunting or teabagging, killers face camping* or taking the game hostage. These are things people do despite knowing it will ruin enjoyment of someone else.
Do you see the difference here?
People with a bit a maturity can enjoy a game no matter if they win or lose. It is possible for all 5 players in a game of dbd to all have fun even tho one side has to lose. First step is to stop justifying bad manners and just try to play for fun, no matter if you win or lose.
*Note that when I say face camping, I am not talking about hard camping or proxy camping.
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If endgame camping is a problem, so is hatch escape.
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Don't care. If you have to camp for a kill, you don't deserve it. Period. Next.
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On topic: I would not expect BHVR to make any changes to the Emblem system especially now that it only affects Grade and not Rank.
However there is something you can do to lessen and possibly eliminate the penalty, and still be in close proximity to the hook. The wiki says this about the penalty:
- -3 points: deducted each second you are within moderate proximity (16 metres) to a hooked Survivor (only applied after 10 seconds)
- -7.5 points: deducted each second you are within extreme proximity (8 metres) to a hooked Survivor (only applied after 10 seconds)
So as long as you briefly go 16 metres from the hook every 10 seconds you will receive no penalties on your Chaser Emblem.
You've just been camping a little bit too hard, that's all. Have fun in the fog.
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I think hooked survivors should just die instantly once the EGC starts.
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That's not a bad idea.
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I mean at the very least it'd save the camping issue and make games end a bit sooner. Personally I'd prefer making the exit gates decay and re-close after a time so the killer can still do stuff in the end game, but either would be a solution to camping in end game.
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I don't know about that, I like that there are essentially 3 matches in 1, the jog to 1 gen, the sprint to do the last gen and the endgame play.
That idea would essentially end the endgame play of the killer defending a hook and survivors trying to save their teammate, something I think a lot of survivors and killer mains enjoy. It is good to have a variety of gameplay in a single match.
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Well, the alternative would to make the doors decay and/or close after like 30 seconds and require being opened again.
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I do think the endgame needs an update and an overhaul, but there is no issue with camping in the endgame in my opinion and that is why I think the proximity to hook penalty should be disabled in the endgame.
You're suggestions appear to be designed to eliminate camping in the endgame which I just can't get on board with.
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Well, camping's the weakest part of DBD, which is why giving killer more pressure during the end game would make the game more interesting rather than it becoming really boring once all the generators are done since either the survivors all leave or they try to rescue and potentially throw.
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Actually, there is a skill in camping in the endgame and it's not the weakest part of the game, I can understand thinking that when gens still to be done, as the killer knows that just standing at the hook will either
a) delay other survivors doing gens by trying to save the person on the hook
b) they get a free 2nd hook stage or kill.
A or B is free and it's weak.
It's different in the endgame because you don't have the safety net of gens still to be done, and you will have all remaining survivors' body blocking after unhooking. You have to track all remaining survivors and then you have to time when to hit one of them, so you have time to recover and still be able to get a down, therefore exchange a hook. There is also the tactic of trying to grab a survivor when they go to unhook which isn't an easy thing to time. If you make one mistake, then pretty much all remaining survivors are out and that is game over.
Also, as I said before, there really is no other option for the killer in the endgame, as typically exits are so far apart and usually, there are a bunch of pallets in the way, if you take time to break the pallet, its enough time for that survivor to reach an exit and certainly time for teammates to get in position to body block.
There really is a big difference in the mindset of a killer who camps when gens still to be done or a killer who camps in the endgame. Also, there is a lot of positive and strategic gameplay for both sides in endgame camping. With perks like DS being disabled and changes to NO ED, it has become even more interesting for survivors now.
lol sorry for the long post but my PC tied up rendering 3d images, so I had time to waste and figure I explain the strategy side of endgame camping.
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It makes sense. The killer only real objective is just secure any kill you can now. So no reason for a penalty.
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