Maybe Some Survivors need to "Get Good"
Here we go, time for me to share my input on this patch.
As a person who mainly plays soloq survivor, I can definitely feel a difference in my games. It doesn't necessarily feel like the gen I'm sitting on takes forever or that my personal chases are worse, but the overall game dynamic feels a little off.
I was fortunate enough yesterday to get a good mix of killers and not face forever legion/plague, so I got a good grasp of what an average game might be in this new patch.
A lot of the games that I had, I end up dying in the end, which before the patch, my escape rate was more a 50/50 chance (depending how risky I wanted to be for EGC saves). Now, I'm not entirely upset about this, I was a little bummed last night because I had many games where I knew pre-patch the game wouldn't have ended in a 4k.
The grievances I feel is that the overall game pacing has changed so that survivors definitely have less time to do things. Now, this isn't a bad thing because BHVR wanted to raise the kill rates, so making it harder for survivors to get everything done with 4 survivors alive is a good thing towards that goal.
What I mean about the pacing being different is that by the time end game hits (if it does), there was usually 1 person dead, 1 on hook (person in chase while last gen poppped), and then 2 survivors free. I was usually injured because I found in a lot of my games there wasn't time to heal, which then left us in a situation where we either had to choose gates, heal and go for the save, or split up and maybe hook trade if we had states left. Usually this would result in either a 4k by the killer or only a 1 man out because the killer would pressure the gate and chase one of us letting the other escape. I would say, this scenario was the average game I would have, which feels as if it is designed to only have 1 survivor escape maybe 2 if the killer decides to camp the hook. Usually before, there was a high chance we could get the 3 man out, or at least have enough time to hook trade, get the doors, and reset. Now since the games are a little more closer, there aren't those extra hooks states at the end game for that wiggle room of time.
There were a couple observations that I made that could cause this phenomena to happen or explain why it is harder for survivors right now and how it might not be permanent at all.
- 1: Survivors aren't used to being in chase with the killer without dead hard or aren't used to them getting a quicker blood lust (not forcing the killer to break the pallet to get rid of it as soon).
- 2: Eruption really hurts soloq.
- 3: Low Morale/Ineffecieny
- 4: People aren't used to having to hook trade with the new cooldown time.
So, for the first point. In a lot of my games, my teammates were going down pretty quickly where I would barely get half a gen completed by the time they went down. This was not the case in the previous patch, and I feel like it might be the people who were reliant on having dead hard extend their chase. They just need to adjust and "get good" which will take a little time for them to rememorize how to run loops without getting hit. This didn't effect me personally because I never ran dead hard and usually don't run exhaustion perks, so chase is about the same for me.
Eruption definitely hurt some of my games. I started running rookie spirit just so I could maybe save regressing generators and see what the killer was kicking. Although I know the killer kicked a gen, I don't know when my survivor teammates would actually go down. Having generators take longer, plus me not being able to progress anything for 25 seconds hurts a lot. I can't work on gens and I can't reset myself and heal. Although eruption does have a cooldown, the coooldown is only 30 seconds, so you can basically always apply eruption on gens and if survivors are hit by it, the gen won't gain enough progress to be significant.
This third point also doesn't help when survivors just "give up" because they aren't winning. These games are going to be close, so close that most games might only have 1-2 survivors who get the chance to escape. Having survivors either throw by running to the killer, suiciding on hook, or just wandering around not sitting on gens is basically handing a 4k to the killer. The games will be close and you probably won't get out, but if you decide to stop trying, then it ruins it for the team and you're just sealing your fate. Maybe that one survivor who hasn't gotten chased yet is a god in chase and you should be on a gen instead of opening a chest or cleansing a dull.
I had a bunch of games where survivors get grabbed during the unhook/hook trade. This was because of either STBFL which is now easier to deny unhooks because you have a couple stacks built in base kit or they just hesitated for a split second which was okay before but now you can't. Puts everyone in a really bad spot and usually it was game over at that point.
I still had a couple games where the killer was bad and we got a 4 man out, but those were because I think the killer was kinda thrown into a game they weren't supposed to get (I had to wait for survivor games quite a bit). I still was able to have good chases that would bring back the game. I was able to have some good chases that would allow 2 gens to pop and then I would get hooked. It just wasn't enough in some games when my teammates would go down quickly.
I feel like, as survivors improve in chase without using dead hard, then escape rates will go back up a little. There is the other scenario where then more experienced survivors have their mmr drop so then they are paired with people who give them more a 50/50 escape rate, which just causes mmr to have a deflated survivor skill level so that will be interesting.
TLDR; Survivors need time to adjust in chase where they have to loop without having dead hard. It's going to be rough for survivors for a bit, but most likely will go back to having better average escape rates for those who can loop.
Comments
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What time do I need to adjust if my perk build before the patch was already kindred, bond, inner strength and lithe?
Because the issue is not the dead hard nerf, I'm fine with that.
The issue is everything else on the killer side got buffed and only thing survivors got to compensate was a useless 5 second bt.
29 -
Makes sense.
It's matches both my experience as survivor and as killer.
Hopefully the adaptation will not take long.
3 -
The BT has saved my ass multiple times in Solo Q.
7 -
Basekit BT hasnt done anything for me, killers still camp and tunnel.
Just yesterday I had to get a Lisa out of the basement with the basekit BT and she couldnt even get up the stairs almost.
3 -
They said themselves they wanted killers to be fearful and dominant.
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You see, you're part of the population that didn't rely on dead hard to extend a chase, so that means you have to wait until your teammates are better at chase or at least get used to the changes. So with that in mind, time would become undefined and another way to describe undefined would be infinite. Thus, time to play killer.
The issue is a small byproduct of the dead hard nerf because dead hard being nerfed means that some survivors who were mediocre but good with the perk can't buy you time. With killers given more time and buffed a lot of aspects that save them time, it means that survivors have to do a lot when their teammates can't hold their own.
7 -
They're still not fearful, they're just boring and annoying to face.
Only fearful thing about going against plague/legion now is not being tunneled so I cant go faster to the next game.
7 -
I honestly haven't really noticed a difference I played a few solos and then teamed up with some friends for the rest of the night and I didn't notice any issue at all, I guess there are some people based off of the posts here on the forums that are having a big problem with their crutches gone, I've been running resilience, adrenaline, prove thyself and a random 4th perk
2 -
So me as someone with thousands of hours need to wait for the 20-100 hour players I'm getting in my lobbies to get better?
Me having to wait for other players to get better isnt a fix.
10 -
Maybe killer got more buffs than you because they needed it?
3 -
And solo q doesnt need it? Ok fam sure thing.
I'm sure nurse and blight also needed those buffs real badly.
10 -
Boring is more like it.
People are suiciding rather than face the monotony of Plague and Legion.
3 -
I've noticed that Prove Thyself definitely helps the gens go along and I think the games where I had it, they went better, or at least we got to end game. I played a few games duo, which didn't feel too different, but most of my commentary was on my soloq experience which was definitely different. It wasn't catastrophic as people are saying, but I can definitely notice the killers are a little more powerful.
I only played 1 killer game for a daily/getting the daily xp bonus and I 4k at 5 gens. They got two close to being done but that's it. Pre-patch those gens would have popped. It was the Game and I was playing Artist, so maybe you could say I had the advantage there already and they gave up once everyone was 1 hooked with no gens finished, but yeah.
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My last game last night was against a basement-insidious-Billy... who would have said?
1 -
Solo ques problem is bad teammates. You can't buff that because if they git gud, they will be too strong. Plus there's no patch that can make an unskilled player good. You can give them all the tools in the world. It won't help them until they learn to use them.
3 -
Basekit kindred would change things big time... most of the issues you see are people leaving gens to go save someone when the killer is camping... and it's all 3 survs at the same time. That's when you know they don't play together.
6 -
Solo Q problem is not only bad team mates.
It's the lack of information and having to use perks for it, not giving us enough freedom to try other perks.
Kindred basekit would already be a big help, same with the icons for survivor icons. This would only buff solo q.
2 -
I agree, but at this point, I don't think BHVR will be doing anything significant enough until whatever time period they deem as enough time for people to adjust is surpassed. Let's just hope that things get better because I would love to not die because the team made one mistake in end game.
The request I would have right now is changing eruption to either have a little lower incapacitated effect or a little longer cooldown or both. Eruption makes soloq suffer much more than swf.
0 -
When I solo I almost always bring kindred and my randoms still refuse to do gens when I'm being camped.
Again, we can give them all the tools but nothing gets done until they learn how to use them.
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See that is my problem with this mentality is the "i agree this is bad but bhvr".
Killers complained everyday about things and got them changed, so why is it not ok for solo q survivors to also complain about things that aren't ok? Instead, we get other people just telling us to "get good".
6 -
There's nothing to adjust to against the forever builds that killers are capable off in this patch. A 3 gen run is now a zero gen run when you factor in Thana+10 seconds base. I ran a Pinhead an entire lap around Shelter Woods for zero gens, and it wasn't for lack of trying on my teammates' part. A killer can now play awful and still beat objectively better players. This is what balancing around low level play looks like.
You don't fix the balance by negating the skill of one side because the other side couldn't be expected to play well. If killers were struggling before the patch, there were probably massive issues with their gameplay unless they were playing mid to low tier killers. And yes, killer feels better after the patch, but survivors straight up gave up in my games after a gen or two, and I was on Pig/Clown.
3 -
It may be too early to tell for sure but it's not looking good for overall balance, from games I've played camping and tunneling are 100% worse now, some things are overtuned too like 10 stacks stbfl or forever legion. Killers needed a buff but they should have done all these changes more slowly they overdid it
2 -
Sure, but at least let me use something instead of kindred so i can do gens faster myself, or so I can unhook myself etc.
1 -
I've had some very questionable teammates in a few of my matches. I had a David DC becuase I didn't heal him under hook when I knew the killer would be coming back. I think a lot of players aren't really trying right now.
Then again if they weren't competent against a sweaty nurse before then there's no chance they can handle her now.
0 -
Yeah, I hate the whole get good argument for survivors. It has a small point because yes, if you don't have many hours in the game and don't understand perks/interactions, then you'll have to learn like anything else in life. But, telling someone to get good when they have to work in a team with 3 other random people isn't entirely logical. I can "get good" as much as I want but if my team are weaker than there's nothing I can do with that sentiment. For killers, it always different because there is an "I' in team since the killer doesn't rely on anyone else.
Hence the big difference between killers getting called out for skill issue/get good instead of survivors getting called out to get good for having a bad team. Oh well, I'm not one to complain to get things changed when it comes to things like this, but I definitely support your sentiments. Guess we'll just wait another year until they tackle soloq QoL.
3 -
I tend to run we'll make it for healing people I save quickly. I forget the name but when the RE chapter released and I was lvling Jill. I liked her perk that healed me by like 50% when I was pulled off a hook.
0 -
No you see, buffs for me but not for thee.
1 -
Sure, I'll run we'll make it for saving people, and then who heals me? That's why I have to use inner strength.
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Yeah, I think the only killer that I crushed in a game yesterday was Onryo. I was running Quick n Quiet, Balanced, Vigil, and Dance with me. All other killers had a decent chance to win (I saw most of the rooster yesterday).
Surprisingly, I didn't have one killer camp yesterday, hence why I felt compelled to actually create a discussion since my experience was a bunch of games that didn't use this tactic that would almost guarantee 2k-3k pre-patch. Even when most killers weren't camping or tunnelling, they were still able to win, so yeah, killer is a bit more powerful.
0 -
If you hate the whole argument, why are you using it in this thread? At least from reading it, that's what it was about?
2 -
I too run inner str or pharmacy for that reason.
1 -
I'm not sure that's true. If in the next couple of days survivor frustration peaks, and online player numbers tank. They may roll back some or all of the changes. There business is in keeping people happy and having fun and that only works if both sides keep playing.
I've played around 2500 hours, probably 2k as survivor and 500 as killer. My experience with this patch has been terrible as survivor. I often solo, or duo and I consider myself an average player. I can loop a killer for 40 seconds or 3 seconds. Since the patch I have yet to escape...which isn't the most important thing of course. I haven't felt like escape was ever even possible and that drains the fun rapidly.
I'm sitting here reading the forums and looking for something to play in my steam library because facing this game at the moment is not something I'm willing or desire to do.
7 -
Playing the Game today, suvivors without deadhard is running like a chicken with their head cut off.
Dont event loop and drop every pallet any chance they get. Pre drop. 8 meter from killer drop. What the hell.
With the new change, the dev is intended for killer to run more than gen slow down perk, info perk, utility perk is become more useful now.
1 -
Pharmacy is useless in solo q now, they nerfed it.
1 -
Oh? What they do to it?
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I personally think DH is getting too much credit. It was a strong perk when used correctly but not many did that. I'm a survivor main but when I played killer the average DH user bought themselves maybe three seconds. Maybe high MMR reached a pallet. But people are forgetting that on top of DH nerfs killers got basekit buffs in every aspect of chase and survivors even got a nerf to distance when getting hit. Only a small handful of people got to play PTB so these are NEW changes for a lot of people. That pallet you might have made before the speed boost nerf, probably not making it any more. Killer throws on enduring or Brutal Strength means they're breaking a pallet faster than they used to and you don't have time to make it to another loop. Killer lands a hit, you get caught on all the trash devs put on loops nowadays and killer completes the swipe and hits you again. Don't get me started on STBFL. But anyway, the adjustment will take time. Not everyone used DH, and even less correctly.
3 -
They made so you only get medkits from a chest after you're injured.
By the time you're injured, all chests have been opened already by everyone else.
1 -
You have to be injured, though you can get 3 Green medkit while doing so. It destroy my Chest build, since I will always get a Green medkit with addons and give to a teammate.
As for the OP, most survivor just want a fair match, make 6 Gen if they want to, but no survivor want to be out of the game in 3min. The new patch is just buff up tunnel & camping. Its not about skill issue or anything.
4 -
That kind of sounds redundant. Why does bhvr nerf weak perks hardly anyone is using /sigh
1 -
By the way, it was on the "buffs" section.
2 -
Honestly as a very average killer main, I’m happy with all the buffs but also very sympathetic to solo survivors as that’s how I play when I do venture to the other side. IMO the first hook stage timer should be increased and honestly I wouldn’t even oppose a base-kit DS at this point- something like it’s active for 30 seconds after being unhooked. Base-kit kindred is a must going forward and I wouldn’t care if the hook timer stopped if a killer is within a certain distance of the hooked player without another survivor present would also be fine with me. Yes, Kinship exists but honestly that’s not a good solution to the problem of camping as in that scenario you have a minimum of two people off gens.
As you said the key issue is a lack of information. If the devs are balancing around SWF, you can’t just balance killer around that, you have to balance the whole game and that includes solo players. My build as a solo always revolves around Bond, Kindred, BT, We’ll Make It, Prove Thyself and a perk that highlights a generator I’m working on because I want to help my teammates out as much as possible. But it’s still frustrating to have to bring info perks for stuff SWF gets for free. And I’m left with no counter to tunnelling and camping.
1 -
Killers also got told to "git gud" a lot.
Things didn't change because killers complained, things changed because killers weren't playing the game anymore. It took months of the game bleeding players for BHVR to actually take their earplugs out. But I'm sure that's the narrative those type of survivor mains will push.
Considering the survivor ques were minuets long while killer ques were instant yesterday for the majority of players, it doesn't seem like survivor is hurting that much at all. But its still too early to say, survs need to adapt to both the new survivor meta, which appears to be endurance at this time, as well as the new killer changes.
Solo que needs pings at least tho.
1 -
Just because people are starving for bloodpoints doesnt mean survivor is ok.
0 -
The problem with this game is the devs underestimate (or they’re wilfully ignorant) to how much a lot of players only care about winning. I know that anyone who has paid money for the game can play how they want but honestly it would be nice if people on both sides could use a little etiquette and try and play in the right sport. Instead people are now stacking four slowdown perks on top of the base game changes in order to win the game by a war of attrition.
I would never want the devs to categorise the perks as it should be up to each player to create their build but I do not believe the devs want players using four slowdown perks as their build. The whole point of increasing base Gen times and the other killer buffs was surely to lower the need for a slowdown meta.
0 -
Killer made more BP before and that didn't make the ques minuets long. People wont play the unfun role for BP.
0 -
I disagree.
My survivor queues before were always instant and killer took 3-5 minutes.
Queue times has nothing to do with fun. It has to do with servers and timezones.
4 -
well thats great for you but for the vast majority that wasnt/is not the case.
0 -
I needed a catchy title 😅 but...
It was more just responding to killers saying that yes, survivors need to "get good" since the patch just dropped yesterday and people have to learn everything over again. Kind of stating and listing what survivors need to improve at for this patch and that the game has kind of changed so that killers have more power. There are some things that survivors still need to get better at because killers were buffed so interactions are affected, but not everything can be chalked up to the get good argument.
I mainly hate the whole argument when you attack one person telling them to get good when clearly it isn't a skill issue for that one person. They get screwed over by teammates or other forces. I've seen you a lot on the forums, so I know that you have a lot of playtime, hence why I can understand your frustrations as a veteran player. I also didn't want to make a post that just devolved into killer mains telling me to get good (if I say it first than they can't also use it as an argument.)
0 -
It took 4 years of killers leaving to get DS fixed.
1 -
I think you misspelled “Git”. 😉
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