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Patch 6.1.0 Midchapter Feedback
(Linking the patch notes for ease of reading). I'll address items in the order that they appear in the patch notes.
Content:
New Tome, new maze tiles: these are interesting and I'm overall content with the new tiles.
Gameplay:
Generators now take 90 seconds. As a baseline duration, I definitely feel this is good for the game overall.
However, gen slowdown perks like Dying Light, Thanatophobia, etc. can be truly oppressive. In a way that is not healthy for the game. I believe something should be done to have the effects of stacked gen slowdown be homogenized or reduced at max effect.
Kicking a generator for a mini-pop is great, this removes some uninteresting gameplay. Before if survivors knew they were ahead they could rotate on the last gen in your face, now survivors actually have meaningful decisions to make. It went from being a low-risk choice for survivors to having risk. Overall, the best singular change in the patch.
Bloodlust trigger changes. Bloodlust is still useless. Chases are so short now from other gameplay changes tier 1 is super rare. I still think it should be removed from "all killers" and possibly be unique to a small group of killers.
Sped up killer actions / Duration of Survivor Speed Boost: The changes to palette breaking are small and fantastic. The reduced hit cooldown is nice but feels over-done with the reduction in survivor speed boost post-hit.
Base-kit Borrowed Time: it's good for the game, not really changing the meta since BT was so common. But overall good.
Endurance is now cancelled by Conspicuous Actions. Conspicuous Actions are the band-aid fix, to the band-aid fix. Good for now but I'd prefer to see something down the road that is more intuitive.
Endurance doesn't protect a survivor in deep wound. This is an intuitive solution, long term it'll be good.
Killer Perks:
I think some of the gen slowdown buffs need to be reeled in. Scourge: Gift of Pain should be 8/10/12% for example, Thanatophobia should have stayed 4/4.5/5%. Most of the changes have been healthy for the meta though.
Survivor Perks:
We're really seeing how impactful Dead Hard was on the game-equilibrium. Chases feel on average are 20 seconds shorter. From having to wait Dead Hard out for 4-10 seconds and the additional 30 seconds that could be gained from a well-used Dead Hard.
Decisive Strike takes another hit and is just seen even less now.
Other Changes:
Relatively good, not much to write about.
Conclusions:
The buffs to killers are nice, but survivors need some modest buffs.
Some considerations are:
0) Add in mini-obsession tentacles for non-obsession survivors bridging the gap between solo-play and SWF. How impactful is it if all survivors can always see who is in chase from the HUD?
I personally believe this would be a great improvement to the game to supplement all the changes in 6.1.0.
1) Remove breakable walls from certain maps & Tiles. They're usually a waste of time or gutting a loop for survivors. "Oh, I'm near the wall I always have to break" or "Oh, there's that wall I'd have to be a fool to break."
2) Rethink where breakable walls are placed on buildings and maze tiles. Too often it's not a meaningful choice to make, as described above.
3) Remove bloodlust.
4) Give survivors back a 2 second speed boost after being hit.
Comments
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Add in mini-obsession tentacles for non-obsession survivors bridging the gap between solo-play and SWF. How impactful is it if all survivors can always see who is in chase from the HUD?
Damn that is a big one.
I agree with everything you've brought up, other than the bloodlust on specific killers. That would cause a lot of inconsistencies I feel. Either remove it or keep it, both work.
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I absolutely agree on the Breakable Walls implementation; I alots of the the wall placement favor the Survivor if left broken or favor the killer when left unbroken. Which to me, feels backwards logic; not to mention not all the lasted new maps have Killer Shack with no Breakable Wall, unlike Dead Dog Saloon. I feel like there should be no Walls at all; but instead gives Survivors the ability to build up Walls and possible pallets, along with a new item like a hammer to help build them up. It would waste Survivors time of Gens; in exchange to build strong and infinite loops.
Speaking of Bad Breakable Walls placement designs, more map tile Varations and less connecting Strong Map tiles connected to each other. I do not want to see Jungle Gyms be right now to killer shack, somr dead zone with good hiding place would be nice.
Gens speeds changes are nice, more nerfs to other regression perks for killer. Survivors need some nerfs to some meta perks still strong like Borrowed Time and Off the Record (I know the base kit changes, but a extra 15 seconds ans 80 seconds is bit excessive....) also some perks need to be buff back up, like Self Care and Iron Will. Just some minor reverts, as nerf stacking is much hard overkill to a useful perk; compared to other perks that is overperfoming. (Self Care VS. COH, Iron Will vs. Off the Record)
I think the update is great and I love to see more like it, just some elements that need addressing.
1.) Sole Que Buffs?
2.) More Map Balancing and Reworks
3.) Buffing Weak to Mediocre Killer's
4.) Nerfing/tweaking Stronger/Top tier Killers
5.) Camping/Tunneling will eventually become more fun and less viable; when all these things are addressed and Hooks are more of a priority, instead of Kills. I feel like Kills should give bonus, but really hooks give more points and better Score overhaul.
6.) CoH and Prove Thyself need proper nerfs, as they make gen rushing more common, and gives Self-Care on steroids... for your entire team, especially with Medkits (which is the most powerful Survivors item in the game)
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Oh, I forgot to add. Nothing in this patch addresses camping. Killers can just run gen regression, proxy/camp the hook, target the survivor who goes for the hook save.
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For survivors I think the two pieces of into that you need in SoloQ are: First is a soft Kindred effect that shows the aura of the killer if they're within a short distance of the hook, within direct LOS, and aren't Undetectable. Second is an indicator for what the survivors are doing, a little status indicator by their portrait showing if they're in chase, on a generator, crouching, healing, or cleansing as well as an icon for which item they're carrying.
Removing bloodlust would be bad as it's only something weaker killers ever benefit from, and to remove bloodlust would require them to retool every loop in the game and every future loop they ever make would need to be that much more playtested. Currently there's infinites or near infinites still in the game based off random generation or even some fixed structures.
I will say I think the "mini-pop" effect on generators should be a 5%, so it takes a survivor more time to repair it than it takes for the killer to kick it. Currently it's about even, which doesn't help that much.
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The game does not currently have infinites. The Entity will block a window/vault to prevent infinites.
I don't believe for a second that 'weaker' killers benefit from bloodlust. Bloodlust is a trap choice, the killer could have always done something differently. BHVR also will not need to retool every loop. In their own words, bloodlust almost never activated and, when it does, often leaves the killer in a bad spot. If it doesn't activate 90+% of the time, why would maze tiles need a rework? Maze tiles are designed for a game-state where bloodlust has no positive impact for the killer.
"Finally, we’ve tweaked Bloodlust to increase in power quicker than before. In most chases Bloodlust does not activate, though there are rare cases where it can be necessary. The long build up often leaves the Killer in a bad spot even if they eventually get a hit." - BHVR
Bloodlust creates an incentive for newer players to make poor choices. When that player doesn't even realize that as soon as a palette is broken bloodlust is gone. To keep bloodlust the player has to refuse to break palettes, which can frequently be a bad idea.
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''Give survivors back a 2 second speed boost after being hit'' Oh shift W nerfed? BUFF IT AGAIN
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I'm just going to leave this here I think a few simple changes can help solo Q until a bigger patch:
-DS revert to 5 seconds
-Thanatophobia 4% per stacks
-eruption/call of brine/overcharge doesn't stack anymore, force you to choose one
-probably revert bloodlust buffs too
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"Remove bloodlust"
4 maps: Garden of Joy, Haddonfield, Badham, and Grim Pantry (main building)
Fix those, then we can talk about removing Bloodlust.
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Do you really benefit from bloodlust on Garden of Joy, Haddonfield, Badham, and Grim Pantry? Is this a tool you use on those maps?
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Garden of Joy - Depends. If I'm 110, I'm screwed and avoid the main building like the plague. If I'm 115, it depends on how well they run the building. If poorly, then no. Decently? Yes, I often have to. If very well? It's an infinite that is impossible.
Haddonfield - 110? No. 115? If the buildings are ran well, then yes (thankfully, most don't know how).
Badham - I'm thinking of House of Pain specifically.
Grim Pantry - I've had people run those windows well enough to get T3 BL. It's annoying as it is infuriating.
Yes, the best move is often to drop chase and go. But sometimes, that's not an option; you need to commit to something eventually.
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This is where the discussion becomes fun.
Garden of Joy main building is definitely survivor-sided, but the rest of the map isn't. And, I'm going to compare this to a very similar main building that used to be just as problematic. That is Disturbed Ward, before breakable walls were added. Currently Disturbed Ward is a boring main building because it becomes "break the walls to kill the vaults." it's too strong of a breakable wall to pass on. In contrast Garden of Joy main building has no breakable walls. Both main buildings need changes. Overall bloodlust or not, survivors can waste a lot of time for the killer at Garden of Joy main building. It's a trap-choice to stay on a survivor in main, unless they're out of position.
However, both main buildings would be better if they had breakable walls located at points with meaningful decisions to make, not completely killing the loops, but also not having them be massive time sinks for the killer.
New Haddonfield, it's a decently 50/50 map now even if survivors know how to loop all the buildings you can push for a strong 3-gen. And as palettes disappear there are generous dead zones in the killer's favor. It's still a big map, so it's definitely hard to stop the survivors from getting the first two gens done. But bloodlust doesn't really impact any of this. If a killer does bloodlust a skilled survivor on this map for a hook, they are giving the survivors what they want. The survivors will get plenty of time to break up a 3 gen and have a stretched patrol route for the killer.
Badham (Springwood) - The whole Springwood realm is terribly designed. It's not just House of Pain. It's the issue that strong buildings frequently chain into each other, there are lots of palette tiles that can spawn with large rocks. If Springwood (the whole realm) was removed from DbD I would be happier as killer and survivor. Overall, I still feel bloodlust will mislead a killer from protecting a 3-gen on this map. Against great survivors, killers should protect a 3-gen on this realm and set up dead zones for end game. (Sometimes matches start off better than expected though, so always play it as it comes).
Grim Pantry main building I actually think is in a healthy spot. There is room for outplay on both sides, but the first level usually is complete RNG for killer/survivor-sided. So, it's a consistent upper level and a very chaotic lower level. While the rest of the map is easy for the killer to patrol.
All this being said, a lot of killers have powers that don't benefit from bloodlust at all:
[Trapper, Billy, Nurse, Hag, Doctor, Huntress, Bubba, Clown, Spirit, Legion, Plague, Demogorgon, Oni (powered up), Deathslinger, Executioner, Blight, Twins, Cenobite, Artist, Dredge]
Some benefit rarely (less than 5% of the time):
[Myers, Wraith, Pig, Oni (powerless), Nemesis, Onryo] 5.5 / 28 ~= 19% of killers
It's a mechanic that 5 killers might need on a minority of maps. But frequently it leaves them in a bad position strategically. (a total trap-choice).
Personally, I feel Bloodlust is a mechanic that has delayed adding in changes to the game that would actually benefit killers. (For example, a lot of the improvements we saw in the recent patch). If BHVR just dumps bloodlust it'll move game design over to more fun, engaging choices for both sides. Killers will learn better strategies faster and there'll be less incentive to tunnel in the game.
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There's so much here but I'm just going to mention breakable walls.
Look at a map like Badham preschool main building and it's clear you have a map where you never want to break the walls on the main building. That is really stupid. Huntress is forced to break the wall near the pallet by the car.
If breakable walls were really for the killer then a section of the fence by the main building would be a breakable wall.
Honestly I would like to see Breakable walls redone in a way where the killer can use the passage after breaking them and the survivor can't.
Also any time there is a breakable wall : it should be something the killer ALWAYS gets a benefit from breaking such as with Dead dog. The wall on the upper level that "closes" the window loop and the wall on the floor that closes the loop facing the main street are walls the killer needs to break.
Every other wall in that building is a "trap" and helps the survivor. There should be zero walls that can be broken that help survivors.
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Agreed, breakable walls shouldn't be a trap-choice for killers either.
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