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“Just learn to loop without Dead Hard”
Nobody, not a single person is complaining about DH when talking about how horrible the SoloQ is experience is. We get it it was OP, it was nerfed, please move on. I’ve seen this reply almost every time anyone talks about how bad SoloQ feels with the new changes. DH was not even mentioned in the conversation topic why bring it up?
Comments
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Also the people who talk about SoloQ don’t even use DH, it seems like people just want to push this imaginary narrative.
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Uh, because it's implied and survivors don't want to admit they were using dh as a crutch. What do you think the problem is? Spoiler, I don't think there's a problem.
Post edited by EQWashu on16 -
Funny thing is, I didn't even remember Deadhard was nerfed. I was too busy being upset that 99% of reworked perks are absolute dumpster trash useless F tier
"Pharmacy" OmegaLOL
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I kinda wish it kept its original effect, but the extra medkits would be a bonus
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What is implied? SoloQ objectively got worse, the weakest role in the game. That’s like saying a killer is using crutches if they run any character who isin’t an M1 killer. Extremely hypocritical.
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Game was survivor sided. Devs specifically said kill rates were too low. How exactly did you THINK they were gonna handle this problem, give killers bots to kill? Nah, the game was gonna get harder for weak survivors. They were very clear about this.
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They said average Kill rates were 2K. Literally even? Are killers supposed to win every single e match?
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Killer is supposed to be the power role. Devs have said that.
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Gicing the killer buffs is fine. That again is not the problem or even what my post was about. Wakening the weakest role in the game is NOT good balancing. It’s insensitiving SWF, the booygman to every single killer apparently. They’re literally doing the “nerf pig” meme but with SoloQ, and even harder and weaker role than killer
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Never said it wasn’t. SoloQ is not tho. When in my post did I say the buff was not fine? I said SoloQ feels horrible but for some reason you guys assume that I don’t like the killer buffs.
Post edited by EQWashu on3 -
That devs have also said that kill = skill, and compared it to a game of hockey. What’s your point? We’re talking about fair balance changes.
Power Role? How come they haven’t touched SWF, the most powerful role in the game then? Contradictory ain’t it
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Pharmacy is decent. Now you can get multiple green medkits. Of course, you could just bring one of your own instead.
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Yeah, solo queue sucks. I say this as someone who exclusively plays survivor solo. Literally any buff to killer would hurt solo queue.
There are features coming such as the hud update design specifically to help bridge the gap between solos and SWFs.
But... how did solo queue get noticeably worse? Because DS is nerfed? Not really, since Off the Record does the same thing, can be used twice, last longer, can't be outslugged, etc.
Killers camping and tunneling? I figured that's par for the course. 90 sec gens makes it a little worse, but games don't feel much longer since the pre nerf regression perks were stronger and made games feel about the same.
What kills it for me is that every game, there's a baby that just quits at the slightest inconvenience. I had someone give up against a Myers running no slowdowns. Not camping, tunneling, or even his BS add-ons. Just giving up cuz they went down.
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It got worse because killers are actually decent lol. The baby survivors now get hard punished and the good survivors can’t do ######### unless they loop for 5 gens. Since gens take longer you can’t make up for your team being bad. SoloQ just highlights how bad MMR is.
Post edited by EQWashu on7 -
Solo queue has always been a problem, just the problems of it are even more on display now since the changes of this patch. I don't think anyone believes the killer buffs should be reverted. They were a necessary change that buffs the killers in a way that all of them now stand a chance for the most part on most maps. The problem is that buffing killers without also buffing solo queue information in a way that puts them on par with swf means that solo queue is going to suffer way more than before for a long time until those solo queue buffs come. I hope the devs see what is going on with solo queue matches and which killers and perks are over-performing or under-performing and make changes for them all at the same time instead of one after the other. The sooner, the better.
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But i must be a goblin and hoard them
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If it wasn't DH, then what exactly has changed with the latest patch that made soloQ so much more miserable than it was before?
SoloQ has always been a cointoss on whether your team is able to do the most basic tasks required from them or not, that hasn't changed. 10 additional seconds on a gen don't really matter when you are the only one doing them, you won't finish anyway. So that has stayed the same.
And if you're going to point towards chases and people going down immediately now, then I'll simply point back to Dead Hard. The crutch is gone and many can't really play without it, which shows. People that soley relied on chases and ignored away every other aspect of this game are suddenly a lot worse than before, as they don't know how to stealth, do gens efficiently or loop properly (without DH) - which, sadly, is a lot of the players. So the amount of Survivors not actually doing a whole lot for you in soloQ matches has increased due to the DH nerf. They will get back to where they were and be a useful part of the team again eventually, but before that they will, you guessed it, have to learn to loop without DH or adapt in a different way.
Is soloQ in a bad spot? Sure, I'm not denying that. But it has been in said bad spot for about 6 years now and has repeatedly been neglected by the Devs. That is not a good thing, but it is not like that was new with this update either.
And Killers certainly needed the buffs, they were in a miserable spot before as well - and it is not their fault that the Devs don't seem give a damn about the soloQ experience.
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Solo que is fine, so many are blowing the changes out of proportion. Outside of the heavily relied upon dh, I can't seem to find a reason why some think the game is much more difficult now.
Seems the go to argument is solo sucks because teammates. Well that's not a issue of balance in regards to your individual capabilities as a survivor, but is a reflection of the sbmm affecting games.
I find solo is still fun to play and the changes have not made performing actions more difficult.
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My frustration has nothing to do with Dead Hard. Matchmaking for solo queue is worse than it has ever been. The games aren't even winnable most of the time because teammates are clueless to the point that they're starting chases at the gen they're working on and then also dying at the gen in progress. The killer has 4 or 5 hooks on teammates before a gen is completed and I haven't even seen the killer yet. There's literally nothing I can do to overcome that as a player. And it's doubly frustrating as a survivor who was above the soft cap as recently as the Dredge update. I can't climb in MMR. I can't get better solo teammates. There's literally nothing I can do to win these games.
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I know most people here aren't complaining about just Dead Hard, but there are actually a few ones still complaining about it and repeating the old "DH was perfectly fine, just bait it out" bs.
But generalizations are bad and these clearly don't represent the majority at all.
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Killer's meta perks will always be Gen slowdown. It doesnt matter how strong other perks are that help killers to find survivors fast, down fast. The chase will eventually become easy hit when survivors no more have any resource because the match is too long.
Survivor's meta is about preventing themselves getting tunneled out of a match quickly, which is BT/DS. Unbreakable is god like when paired with DS, but its very situational without. DH should not exist.
With the patch, DH dead, DS dead which lead to Unbreakable hard to make used, the only thing left for survivors is BT.
Ruin, Pop, Corrupted are all heavily nerfed, but the other Gen slow down perks buffed to equally old Meta. Which is why Solo makes complain about.
Remember when BT, OTR, 1sec DH into Mom? Remember how Killers complained about it?
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“Just learn to loop without Dead Hard” - anti-loop killer Main
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Then they will lose people and revenue. Its already almost 5 minute queue for killer and its only gonna get worse as more casual and new players leave. Queues will continue to get worse until killers are waiting 20 minutes just to get paired with SWF parties. What killers don't understand is that 70% if not more of their games are against solo queues which are objectively easier to win against because of lack of communication and bad match making pairing.
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Why do people keep contradicting themselves. If solo queue has always been bad then DH wasn't the issue.
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So you're saying you want to hold the devs hostage. Either buff survivors so they have the easy life again or you're gonna take your money and run.
That's not how it works, chief. They try to make a balanced game. You can play it or leave. You got used to your crouch spam and bully squads and now things got a LITTLE harder and you wanna run away scared. Not our prob.
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No one said anything about holding the devs hostage. That's such a stupid remark. People will leave the game and then they will sell less cosmetics and dlc. Why the hell would any casual or new player want to stick around to spend money if every game is a loss? Wait until all the killers are running into nothing but SWF. Like I said killer queues are getting longer every day because people are leaving. Less people means less revenue. Please by all means you you keep spending your 10 buck every tome and that will keep them in business. Fact is most games killer gets paired against are solo queues which were already easy to win against.
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It's called balance, kid.
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The problem is actually: They did too many changes too fast.
They should have done EITHER the gen progress rework OR the killer buffs.
They changed too much too quickly to tell if either one would have the desired effect. You can't use PTB and internal testing as much as they do because with PTB you don't have a lot of people with lower amounts of hours actually playing/testing the PTB. The results were extremely skewed towards more hardcore players at the highest MMR because that is the bulk of who tests the PTB... the hardcore players - meanwhile the other 60% of moderate players and 35% of casual players are affected by the changes as a result of the hardcore players testing. The game should not be focused on the abilities of the top 5% of players, but rather the middle range of casual/moderate players.
Had they simply done the killer changes or the gen changes - gathered data for 6-8 weeks and moved forward from there I think the game would have ended up more balanced. I have a strong feeling there will be an update to a lot of these changes in the near future- whether it be to the killer changes, gen changes, or a combination of both. I think this update was SLIGHTLY heavy handed and we will see a more moderate "fix" soon-ish.
I will say as both a survivor and killer - I have noticed a visible increase in survivors giving up (DC or letting themselves die) after first down/hook more than I had previously noted. I collect data on EVERY match I play whether killer or survivor and the DC rate pre-patch was 15.2% and in the past 3 days it has increased to 18.8%. While that may seem like a small increase - it truly is not small. This of course compounds the problems the other survivors face when trying to actually play/escape which exacerbates the feeling of feeling powerless and that the changes were too "killer sided."
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"if it wasn't DH, then what exactly changed?"
Literally everything. Go read the patch notes. For example:
- • Cooldown time after a successful hit has been reduced to 2.7 seconds (was 3 seconds)
- • Duration of the Survivor speed boost when hit has been reduced to 1.8 seconds (was 2 seconds)
The developers are mesesing with numbers that were perfectly fine before. Someone carefully balanced these numbers way back then, and now the game is suffering from developers messing with numbers to see what happens. My bet is that they didn't calculate how the numbers would affect the game.
Even with the base-kit borrowed time, you now can't escape the basement from certain killers. Huntress, for example, can now hit you with a hatchet from melee distance (so close that you're touching her), which triggers built-in borrowed time, and the survivor's speed boost from getting hit isn't enough to get away from a melee swing 2 seconds later.
This can be done by the Huntress if she stands at the very top of the basement stairs in killer shack. Even tho she hits you at the top of the stairs, she'll hit you a 2nd time before you reach the window vault.
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Because they don't want to mention that not only was dh nerfed but killers were made stronger in chase AND gen speeds got increased AND all the other survivor perks got changed into being even more situational and borderline useless.
I can loop without DH just fine. Looping without a reliable perk to help in chases AND having the killer literally faster at everything in chase AND making the main objective take longer while none of the killer meta got significantly reworked to balance any of that? Yeah let's pretend that even makes sense.
Im sorry but SB, lithe and balanced are garbage. Boons also got nerfed in this patch because gens take longer so the 14 seconds to bless a totem are really only giving a killer free gen pressure.
At this point you might as well play without any perks, there's no perk or combo of perks that are going to help in any way reliably.
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Soloq is fine. At least it’s not a balance question. Since in most soloq teams there is almost always one or two weak links that completely throw the game but at point they deserve to lose so I don’t see the issue.
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They didn't say anything about the HUD update when they described their plans for the year during the anniversary stream, so I think it is not coming (at least for a year).
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Accidentally replied to my own comment I have butter fingers we’re not gonna talk about it lol
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They could just remove DH, and disable DS in end game. That "Slightly low killrate" would be fixed right there.
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Oh DH isn't the main issue at all. I never said that, nor was it the point I was making.
The point I was making is, that soloQ has been in a rough spot before the update as well and not a whole lot about that has changed - yet tons of people love overreacting and saying it was significantly worse than before, when it's still pretty much the same: a coinflip on whether you get good or bad teammates.
However, the DH nerf DOES provide an explanation to why it might be more common to see bad teammates now than before the update, that is the only point in which it actually comes in.
I don't see how those statements contradict each other tbh.
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No, I think they're currently shooting for 55-60% kill rates, slightly over half, but the actual kill rate recently was around 50%.
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Which is wild. Considering 50/50 is a balanced experience
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Yes you got a nerf to shift + W-ing.
Killers also got a slight buff to their pallet breaking speed, which you forgot to mention.
Neither of those are nerfs I have necessarily been noticing in my Survivor games yet though - might just be because I focus more on looping Killers around windows, using pallets sparely and not being a shift + W holder.
Also, no I don't think it was "perfectly fine" that a Survivor could get hit and just run across the entire map before the Killer could catch up to them again. As for your camping scenario, sure camping is stronger now and I don't agree with it being that strong either. But I genuinely have to question why you would pull someone off the hook right in the Killers face in the first place, especially with someone like Trickster, Bubba or Huntress who are known to be able to harshly punish that.
I know this is a hard concept for many to understand, but have you ever stopped and thought about maybe not unhooking someone when the Killer is right next to the hook? Especially in the case of a basement play? That is a death sentence and it honestly should be, it's a HUGE misplay on your (the Survivor teams) part.
But then once again, this is 100% not new to soloQ. Teammates making horrible decisions that get the team killed are pretty common there and they have been since long before the update dropped.
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It is related to DH. May you like it or not.
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And what do you have to say to the people who never touched DH before the latch who are also criticizing the difficulty of Solo Q?
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“SoloQ is fine” - No regular SoloQ player in the history of every
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what are you rambling on about? Running across the entire map from the speed boost after getting hit?
And nice wall of text based 100% on assumptions. there's no point in responding when you've already made up scenarios in your head beforehand.
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That you have 3 team mates. And those 3 guys might be ex DH users. Simple.
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... but you're the one that came up with the scenario?
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They may be changing their goal to be more like “the gates are open almost 50% of the time” versus “the average kill rate is 50%”. Note that the latter would imply that 1-3 kills are the most common result and so the gates would be open in most matches, not just half the time. But if they have shifted to “the gates are open half the time” then that would mean the kill rates would be over 50% since half the matches would end in 3-4 kills (the average kill rate would be more like 2.25 or 56%).
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You had an entire rant about unhooking right in front of the killer. I said no such thing. Either you're trying to respond to someone else or you just filled in 90% gaps that didn't exist.
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You literally said "Even with the base-kit borrowed time, you now can't escape the basement from certain killers" (and then had two entire paragraphs about this that I won't quote here) - please enlighten me, in which scenario that doesn't involve the Killer being close by to the hook by the time the unhook happens does this apply then?
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talking to you is pointless, as you either didn't read my original message or you draw conclusions that aren't there. I said the huntress was at the top of the basement stairs when the hit occurred, meaning that the unhook happened with the huntress NOT being in the basement, but she was close enough to the killer shack to be able to get back there by the time the unhooked survivor made it to the top of the stairs. (surprise surprise, a tunneling killer!)
How you manage to have a rant about unhooking right in front of the killer from that is pretty impressive, and even more idiotic to clam that the previous 2 seconds of speed boost after a hit was enough to "run across the entire map".
It also amazes me that you start ranting about "shift + W holders" from this. What are people supposed to do after being hit? Stop running and just stand there? Shift + W tactic refers to just running away from the killer the moment you see them, often already when they are in a distance. How you manage to relate this to the nerfed speed boost not being long enough (against certain killer) to get away from having 2 health states taken away in quick succession is beyond me.
Conclusion: You do not use logic, you're just here to argue and post dumb assumptions. Have a good day ma'am.
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I also noticed a HUGE influx of people killing themselves on first hook. Thats what sucked most recently
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Well if one is complaining about soloq, it's pretty obvious that is caused by DH nerf.
There is 3 other people in your teams and 70% of them used dead hard.
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