The Amanda's Letter add-on for The Pig has been Kill Switched due to an issue with incorrect RBT count.
http://dbd.game/killswitch
A way to balance the Killer Instinct mechanic for overall game health with solo Q in mind (Legion)
Hi it's a simple post,
Killer instinct shouldn't proc on those who are in lockers, this doesn't effect those who use the effect on other killers like Pyramid Head, Sadako, Twins etc. I feel this is a change that could help solo queues deal with legion but also allow synergy with perks Iron Maiden to pressure those who choose to do so (you know their own perk).
I just think feral frenzy should only really be effective in a 4 hit if survivors are being greedy/altruistic trying to clump together, a survivor who recognises deep wounds and that feral frenzy is active should be able to hop in a locker and hide their killer instinct before he approaches, giving some kind of interaction to the power.
Its absurd there is little to no interaction with feral frenzy with how it is, this is coming from a Legion main, and would allow people to avoid the mending simulator situations by having more ways to avoid the power other than running.
That or make perks like distortion counter it but... I prefer the locker idea honestly.
Comments
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You can counter it with distance, knowing he is using his power. Though, there is a set of add ons that kind of eliminate that counter. Those add ons should probably get a nerf.
Although, you could always change killer instinct to aura reading haha. That would solve what you are targeting.
I don't think they can put 'killer instinct doesn't show whhen they are on lockers' only for legion. That creates a bizarre inconsistency.
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Just split up
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Yes, but it shows a flaw with the power in general, especially with those who can't know where legion is as they are solo and can't communicate... which is the point of this thread. Letting them hide and take a safer route should be an option, plus as I said it allows for Iron maiden to be used if legions so dislike this approach.
It shouldn't only be for legion, it should be applied to killer instinct in general as it doesn't affect the other usage of Killer instinct, standing in torment can't happen in a locker. revealing ghostface can't happen in a locker, Victor would proc before the survivor entered a locker. Condemned only functions when within the radius of a tv, and no one is likely to be in a locker hiding from her unless they are avoiding bbq.
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It's not always an option especially in solo queue.
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Running bond helps with knowing the direction. But yeah I guess you could do the blanket conceal in lockers. But, what is stopping everyone from jumping in a locker against legion? Oh he hit someone, let's all jump in a locker. Then Legion power is even more useless. As a killer, he is still low tier. You would need to buff him elsewhere if you made that change.
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No interaction with frenzy? There's more stuff you can do with it than many other killer powers. Count down from ten after the first hit. Know where your teammates are. A legion with five seconds in frenzy is gonna behave differently than one with two. Frenzy slashes can be juked.
As opposed to artist who you have to hope misses or leave the loop. Or dredge, leave the loop. Or nurse, die.
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soloQ us a reason why people lose.
soloQ is not a reason why you cant split up...
you see a teammate, you leave. There is no coordination needed as only you have to do an action.
It is not teamwork that is required to disable legion's 5th hit, 1 denied hit is enough. Sure a teammate can mend in the killers face but thats something else entirely.
Lockers hide auras not killer instinct.
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Legion power is far from useless lol, it's a powerful information tool which applies pressure and now can even instant down if survivors are too close. So if the survivor has time to react and hide in a locker they were probably far away enough to avoid the initial killer instinct radius anyways. He doesn't need buffs, if a killer instinct suddenly stopped you'd know to check a locker if you were aware of it and that's a free down as you can interact with lockers while in frenzy.
the fact there is no way to avoid giving the legion said info is the issue if you are aware of it.
Low tier doesnt mean he should stay badly designed, besides I'm certain he is middle of the pack these days, especially in the current update, everyone suffers against SWFs but they aren't the entire playerbase lol
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You say that when you need to make a save or gens are too close together because of bad map design. People are so ignorant to the many outliers DBD's RNG brings, the "StAy AwAY FroM EaCh OThEr" approach is a fingers in ear response honestly, it's not that easy especially when you're lacking the information.
Most of legions issues of being bad are due to bad map design, I'm talking from experience of both sides... you should not be going one side of the map to the next as legion to chain hits, that is absoloutly absurd.
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yea stating the argument of others in a sarcastic way is definitely a way to make a compelling argument
RNG sucks, yes but that goes both ways. Ever played legion on midwich? if 2 survivors are on the bottom floor and 2 on the top floor, you dont have a power. same with RPD but that map is just horrible. Ever played Legion on Eyrie of Crows? I have so far never had a single 5th hit there.
sure there are maps like Gideon Meat Plant or Shelter woods that are pretty small and really good for legion but for every rotten fields there is a arzarovs resting place or a suffocation bit, maps that are rectangles. You CANT TRAVERSE THEM UNLESS THERE IS A SURVIVOR IN THE MIDDLE. if there is nobody in the middle and even only one is on the other side it s impossible to get the 5th hit.
Sure this is again a lack of coordination as it is kinda impossible to ask everyone not to make a line for legion to just walk along. However this is just another reason to buff soloQ.
nerfing legion just because soloQ is miserable is not a good reason to nerf legion. Sure you nerfed Legion and he s no longer a problem in soloQ, what about the 50 billion other things that suck?
Sure you can nerf Legion and make him worthless against SWF and bad against soloQ people. Instead buffing SoloQ to be able to coordinate better would completely get rid of this issue. You could actually just split up and it would work + you d fix a lot of other issues with soloQ
this is a soloQ issue, not a legion issue imo
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Because you are the 2nd person to come in stating the obvious counter, it becomes a tad insufferable. Furthermore everyone forgets camping is very much an issue, which you can get 2 free hits off of and if you hooked them in the centre well the rest is unavoidable for survivors who aren't near said hook no matter how far they run as there is no room.
Yes I have tried playing legion on Midwich, you still know which gens they are working on thanks to feral frenzy and you can continue the chase and hopefully get a jolt to proc on both gens, so you do have a power... it's just you should not be always going for the 4 hit, this is the very issue with legion, people forget it's an information tool, allowing you to make choices in advance with predictions. So it's not an issue with his power, but an m1 killer issue, plus it's not always the be all and end all when you can just vault /fall if they were stacked in a convenient place. Upstairs to downstairs isn't an issue, its downstairs to upstairs which is, which is why chasing on the top floor first is the better choice as a Legion player.
As for the azarovs and suffocation pit, you should maybe not go for 4 hits all the time lmfao, people are so tunnel visioned on that part of the power when its not what its used for, thats just a bonus. They aren't in killer instinct? You know they are on the other side doing gens.
Solo Q does need buffs, but it doesn't mean Legion can't do with some changes also for the health of the game.
Thinking this is a nerf is an overeaction, it only affects those who are only going for the 4 hits who are insufferable as it is right now since the rework, also you are in the wrong thread if you want to bring attention to other solo queue issues, don't derail.
This wouldn't make him "worthless", and it wouldn't make him bad against solo Q either, it's targetting those who are playing him in an unbareable manner drawing matches out for a long period of time because they don't know when to commit to a chase, making the match insufferable for themselves and the other side. So no, "JuSt SpLiT uP" is still a ignorant response as quite clearly:
You are one of the legions that just try to go for 4 hits that I'm talking about lmao
Post edited by Rokku_Rorru on0 -
So basically nerf an aspect of legion's power which is already really weak so it's even less common to get value? You maybe get ~1-2 instadowns a game from it unless it's a huge map or survivors are severely misplaying.
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You are supposed to be unable to hide. That is literally the point, and it is balanced as is.
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It's literally too much in it's current form, and it's not healthy for the game, people coming in and not being constructive nor I feel play both against and as them. The power already voids windows and pallets, closes the gap between survivors. It's not a fun power to play against when certain addons are used. Everyone who has came in here are clearly Legion FoTMs.
The react part is currently not a thing, you can't react when using:
Smaller maps and objectives which are close together make this combo impossible to deal with, your only option in some cases is to take the hit and then not mend essentially wasting a ton of time for the duration of their power. sure they aren't fast enough to start with but they are already 115 so by 2nd hit you are at 5.2m/s.
Any of you saying the power is useless without the 4 hit down are unable to see the bigger picture. If a Legion chooses to cross the whole map to constantly reapply pressure a survivor should have the chance to respond in other ways than just holding W until there is no more room. It will be healthier for the game, and stop matches from taking a long time, and allow room for buffs elsewhere without making Legion annoying for everyone as an m1 simulator.
If a survivor is in a locker, they arent doing an objective, it makes the power something to respect, you have to stop what you are doing to avoid the down already, then the Legion will commit to the chase, it's better for their game flow.
Please do not contribute to this discussion if all you have to say is "it's balanced" you give no reason why and it's not helpful.
I play a lot of legion and Survivor, and I'm just trying to stop the current wave of Legions since the rework who are making games take 10 years to come to an end.
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It's not really the insta down which is the issue, more the fact people playing legion keep trying to go for insta downs and extending games to annoying lengths because of how easy it is to track survivors across the map currently. I don't want the instant down removed I just want survivors to have a way to react to the power and avoid the mend simulator which is currently happening from bad legions being encouraged with the carrot on the stick which is the chain hit down.
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Im sorry, but if Legion didnt get Killer's Instinct for people in lockers, then the Legion would be a made a horrible killer(s). Anytime anyone gets injured, people would just hide in lockers instantly.
Like you can physically see whenever Legion uses their power very clearly when people just start going into Deep Wound, typically it's best to space out and stuff. My only issue is Mural Sketch and Never Sleep Pills, but I typically follow teammates or the Legion and bodyblock while Im in Deep Wound to deny their power or make their job way harder.
Overall I think Legion are fine the way they are, the main issue is how uninformed people are with Legion, they dont really understand how to play against them so it makes the experience overall worse in SoloQ.
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They'd need quick and quiet for such a tactic to be effective, you'd be able to see the noise notification/killer instinct abruptly stopping. It's easy to tell when someone enters a locker in your radius as any killer. You should not be traversing long distances to stab ALL survivors period, it's not what should be encouraged.
Bodyblocking is hard to do as when you get hit the killer can phase through your body and they are faster than you so 9 times out 10 you can't if were close together.
Yes because not mending isn't really a intuitive way for survivors to interact is it? That's why making lockers more useful to survivors is a start especially after the recent nerfs to survivor, I can't count how many times back when I first started the game I'd find people in lockers as legion and I just felt bad for them, they had the right idea to hide from the killer but were punished for it.
After all if you guess right with lockers or catch on it's a free down anyways as you can open lockers mid feral frenzy, why make them more useless?
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Lockers are intended for a risk/reward system, their core design is to hide from the killer or waste the killer's time, however lockers by design arent an "end all be all" for hiding, the only hide Auras and slightly muffle grunts of pain. However Killer's Instinct BY DESIGN is suppose to counter it. Killer's Instinct provides rough information instead of a consistent amount, but is by design meant to counter things that would otherwise counter Aura Reading.
Legion isnt the only killer that gets Killer's Instinct from people in lockers (since Killer's Instinct at it's core is suppose to reveal people in lockers anyways, the only exception is that Twin's Killer Instinct is only hidden while crouched and is mechanically different to prevent camping); Victor (The Twins) gets it while being in an idle state, Artist gets for survivors within a locker that is within the flight path of Dire Crows, Nemesis Vaccine's still reveal people in lockers (even if incredibly niche), etc.
"Id find people in lockers as Legion and I felt bad for them", as unemphatic as this might seem, it's not your fault, they just need to learn how to play against Legion. If you are playing against people who hide in lockers against them, it's safe to say, they dont know how Legion mechanically works, and they need to take the time to learn (and trust me, with Thana Legion being meta, they are going to have plenty of time in a match to learn lol).
Also "They'd need Quick N Quiet for such a tactic to be effective" is a poor argument when most maps have enough space and time for you to hop in a locker and completely negate their power or deny the 4/5th hit by hiding, it's would be horrible design.
Also if you get grabbed from a locker you still deny everyone else getting injured and still give the Legion the "free down that was 100% totally unavoidable with no counterplay at all"... so why does it even matter anyways? Less pressure for the Legion, at least for Mural Sketch and Never Sleep Pill users.
"They are in a locker, therefore they arent doing the objective", if you are mending, you arent doing the objective either, and if you are, you are probably at risk of going down to Deep Wound. Dont make it seem like this is some positive revelation for the killer, it literally is just the exact same thing as playing normally, it just makes the gameplay more annoying for both sides.
When you play, you need to look at what risk is worth taking for the reward, and how much people can or will capitalize off of it, you do it without realizing it half the time, but sometimes you really need to look at the risk/reward of the situation to determine what to do. And that's the thing with Legion, Legion is full of risk/reward situations, and rather than creating a new mechanic to counter a mechanic for a killer's power that doesnt need to be tweaked, I would instead encourage the developers to better explain killers and maybe introduce a way of explaining and practicing killers to learn their powers. It removes a lot of the risk. It reduces the options of counterplay, and limits it to your entire team hiding in lockers for 10 seconds over and over. It is poor design.
Again, the issue isnt Legion at all, it's the lack of information on how to play against them.
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Just because something is by design, doesn't mean it can't be flawed or refined, Legion being able to have this information is causing the current m1 simulator we are in atm, it's by far the strongest part of the perk. Which I've repeated a few times now.
I don't think it would effect the other killers a great deal as I've said, in most cases killer instinct interacts they don't have time to get into a locker lol or make a noise notification, we already have idle crows for lockers and can hear survivors in them. I don't think it would be an issue to remove it.
It is unempathetic, a well designed killer should be easy to acknowledge how to play against them, not cryptic and I do feel some mechanics should be global an encouraged, as it stands Legion comes with a locker perk and doesn't even encourage survivors to go in them LMAO
It's not a poor arguement, it's a solid one, you'd see the killer instinct before it suddenly stopped if you could have capitalised off of it "By design" as you'd say... and how would it be horrible design if they aren't doing gens, its applying indirect pressure? it doesnt deny their power if you find them in the locker you got a reward from it.
But you can't mend if you need to wait out the duration of feral frenzy at risk of being hit a second time, and it's not the same as playing normally, because you can't currently play normally against current feral frenzy. Everyone running around waiting for the power to end, there needs to be more ways to end the power early.
I've already mentioned about the risk reward to legion, especially when it comes to information and what you do with it. So you are repeating that already, but the issue is people aren't calculating any risk atm, they are repeating the feral frenzy over and over until they finally get their 4 down and extending games to irritating amounts of time.
I am getting exhausted of repeating myself atm, seeing people come in as Legion Apologists instead of refining the killer is bugging me, there is an issue with legion, you just need to look at the general forums.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/337028/anyone-else-tired-of-legion
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/321714/legion-needs-to-be-changed-from-a-legion-main
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/322943/oof-legion
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/335502/legion
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/324449/legion
I'm tired of people like you pretending there isn't an issue, and coming up with zero solutions. lmao
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Just FYI quoting a bunch of threads complaining about something doesn’t actually mean there’s a problem. I can’t count how many threads there are of people who think slugging is unsportsmanlike or whatever for instance even though it’s not.
Legion is getting a lot of traction currently because they just happen to be really popular at the moment. But honestly the Legion Thana combo didn’t change all that much from what it was before the patch hit, it’s just being used more often now that Ruin is gone and because popularity feeds on itself. It may be that this combo is overpowered, but if so it was probably overpowered before but nobody complained about it too much. And if it’s not overpowered, but people just think the matches are “too long”, that’s not really a reason to nerf it.
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The solution is to literally hold w key as soon as you hear terror radius after a hit as that gives away you're on killer instinct. A bad legion going for instadowns the whole game should be an easy win lol. Legion's effectiveness is 100% based on how survivors play so why give them even more ways to deny his only strength which is getting lots of people injured.
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How is it not a reason to make a change if match stalling happens, many games change balance for this matter, it hurts game health for both sides, the power needs to see some changes as it's not fun to use or have it used against you.
Thanks for repeating what has already been stated even by myself, it's not a way to deny his strength at all it's a way to discourage a poor playstyle which is making playing DBD casually a nightmare atm for both the person using the power and those against it.
Please if you have any suggestions for the problem like how SekiSeki mentioned making it aura reading instead, can you do that or just not reply at all because it's far from constructive, because the whole split up idea has been mentioned already over and over and people already know this but it doesn't solve the issue this thread is targetting as it's not always an option.. I'd rather hear solutions to the game length issue of legion atm, and how annoying the power is to deal with.
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Really, really excessively long stalemates could be a reason, but there’s also quite a lot of exaggeration flying around.
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There is always exaggeration but some truth to the claims, I don't feel like doing changes like targeting deep wounds is the call here. There has to be a way to break the cycle of constant reapplying, especially with the changes to killer this patch, legion is in a much much better place. Of cours we could bring up SWFs but not a single killer is really exempt to dealing with them.
My suggestion is to target the strongest part of the power it's information without taking away the recent buffs (killer instinct), We also have changing it to Aura Reading as a suggestion from someone else. They are already incredibly easy to play and smother survivors with deep wounds, one simple change to lockers could help players encourage the Legion to resort to downing via m1 instead.
The likes of bond sometimes isn't helpful due to the blindness addon among other factors like third seal, so not even base kindred etc could help with said scenarios.
There has to be a way to deal with the overabundance of information Legion is supplied to make decisions off of.
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I literally fell asleep during a legion game last night. Was kind of late and we were 3 gened but we also had a boon. So it was just "tap the gen, get chased away and heal up at boon", rinse repeat. Legion is so stupid and boring to go against. For the survivors the power is dumb, you don't do anything just take the hit. Then outside of that it's an m1 killer. Then the games take forever because you are always mending and getting chased off of gens.
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Well that’s ######### and broken if you aren’t supposed to be hiding than what’s the point of even playing if the killer knows where you’re at all the time. You can’t mend or heal either or else he’ll know where to find you not to mention the abhorrent speed boost he gets like he wasn’t already fast enough. You killer mains make me question your intelligence. Playing against legion is horrendous. Splitting up doesn’t change things either. I think they should nerf his power
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