Scott Jund's take on being tunneled

Exactly that! It feels like a lot of effort when you know you're probably not going to escape anyway. Plus, being tunelled is just unfun, especially when killers do it straight off the back of a unhook. You don't even have time to heal and reset, and when the killer finally sacrifices you you wonder why they threw a whole match just to get you out of the game.

I have respect for scott and he's a funny man. This opinion though has been the toughest take ever. I don't think most can get on board with it.

Perfectly explained!

Also to Scott's point, yes being chased can be fun and in the long run, you will learn from it. However, when this is happening games in a row because this tactic is now very easy and common it ruins all the fun. It's no fun leaving match after match getting face-camped and then being tunneled to death, with the killer literally ignoring the other survivors. Nor is it fun to have the absolute bare minimum of BP's because you spent getting chased all game long and barely did any of the other side objectives to earn as much BP as possible.

It's true that if you're being tunneled and killed early it's likely that you're not very good. My response is...so what? Should having one bad player on a team doom the rest of the survivors to certain defeat? This isn't Dota. We're all here to have a good time.

Incentives should be aligned so that the most effective way to play is also fair. Right now the best strategy for a killer who wants to win is to pick out the weakest survivor and get them out of the game as fast as possible. Nobody feels good about that, not even most killers. Flashlight-clicking neon-clothed survivors who love being chased are not the ones complaining on the forums, and they are a small minority of the player base.

@Gindaen

Again, I don't personally find chases to be the fun-est part of the game. I was speaking for the sake of argument.

And I agree with most of the changes made to killer for this patch, even with the present consequences.

I do however, think that Behavior should have taken more dramatic steps to handle camping and tunneling alongside these changes. So that even with a multitude of killer buffs, the game remains fun for all most of the time.

My teammates have been going down so fast it feels like they must all be throwing. I rarely have LOS on the chase, so I can't imagine that is whats happening, but boy is it a struggle. Far too many games I've played where the killer has 5-6 hooks and I've yet to complete a single generator.

I wasn't defending it, I do agree that incentives would be nice, the only thing that kept me plaing survivor in the first days was the bp bonus now I don't even bother.

I don't think it's just here, tho

Did you seriously ignore everything else in their reply, including the explanation for why they said looping was an exploit, just to go for this?

While I agree with the general sentiment of "being repeatedly chased is good if you enjoy chases and you should enjoy chases if you play DbD because that is its most exciting and engaging gameplay aspect" and have argued as much myself in the past, I see multiple issues with his take here.

First, he glosses over the fact that being tunnelled right off hook regularly does not provide the tunnelled survivor with an actual chase. He mentions Nurse with stacked range add-ons as if that were the only instance where a survivor can't do much of anything to prevent ending right back up on the hook, but there's a ton of scenarios that result in the same thing, taking much of any agency and interactiveness out of the equation:

• For one thing, the unhooked survivor is injured, which already puts them at a tremendous disadvantage in a chase scenario as opposed to starting a chase healthy. Not only are they leaving pools of blood and sending out cries of pain with which the killer can track them, making mindgames and stealth-jukes much less feasible, but they obviously cannot take a hit without going down, and this absence of having what is usually a built-in Exhaustion perk in the form of the hit sprint and killer hit slowdown as well as just the leeway to take more risks due to having a "free" hit is significant.
• If the tunnelled survivor does not have Off The Record equipped (or the unhooking survivor Borrowed Time), it is often incredibly easy for the killer to simply wait out the 5 seconds of base Endurance and down the survivor then, bodyblocking them to keep them from getting anywhere if need be. 5 * 4 meter is only 20m, that can already be dicey in terms of finding a (safe) window or pallet in general (all the more so given that the killer will be riding your back), but you have to add on top of this the fact that survivors will usually be hooked close to where they went down, i. e. where they likely already used pallets. Then apart from basic bodyblocking, there are killer abilities that can further make these 5 seconds irrelevant, such as Clown's bottles, Slinger's spear, Pinhead's chains. And of course, for the years and years prior to the recent update these 5 seconds of base Endurance didn't even exist.
• If the survivor does have OTR/the unhooker BT, it's also not like the distance gained from that hit will reliably result in a fair chase scenario. Even against a pure M1 killer, that is merely ~14m distance to catch up over. Now consider the killer having Save The Best For Last, which can cut the distance down further by a good 4m. The tunnelled survivor in this scenario is rarely getting anywhere, and depending on the hook location is just guaranteed to go down again.
• Then there's a plethora of killer abilities that will make the distance gained from the Endurance hit matter even less. Nurse obviously doesn't care about that distance whatsoever. Neither does Blight. Spirit can catch up quickly too. Huntress can just hatchet the survivor first, and then M1 them seconds later. Clown can gas the hook, hit the unhooked survivor and then gas them again, also catching up to them in seconds. If Plague has Corrupt Purge, the unhooked survivor is not getting anywhere. Same for Oni in Blood Fury. Leatherface can potentially eat Endurance and down the survivor in 1 chainsaw attack. Trickster melts through Endurance. Legion can use Feral Frenzy to stab the survivor, catch up to them, and cancel Frenzy. Slinger and Pyramid Head can get them on range. Twins just send out Victor. And so on.

So already it is obvious that equating "tunnelling" with "repeated chase scenarios" is dishonest. It's odd that Scott does this so casually here, given that "farming off hook" has been a longstanding meme about one of the worst offenders in terms of bad game design with DbD.

Next, he doesn't consider the fact that you yourself might not and very regularly in fact will not be the player that is getting tunnelled. So by his own argument, if being chased is the thing you should want most out of this game, the killer literally refusing to chase anyone but one survivor until they are dead is obviously not good for the game. But more than that, even if you yourself are good at chases, your random teammates regularly absolutely will not be. And so even ignoring that even a good player regularly cannot do much of anything to prevent going down again shortly after having been unhooked, a not-good player will get tunnelled out very quickly. And if you are left with 3 survivors and only few gens done, the chances of success collapse. Which leads me to my next point:

Losing isn't fun. Scott might actually not care about himself and other players in his survivor games dying, but he does care about killing survivors in his killer matches. So the concept of caring about winning and not liking losing is not foreign to him. Tunnelling is an issue for many people because either they themselves die to it quickly, or their teammates do, which then also often seals their own fate. Tunnelling is a very effective killing strategy, alongside camping it is in fact the most effective killing strategy, it is objectively optimal gameplay if your goal is to kill as many survivors as possible as reliably as possible, and tournament play too makes this very obvious. I'm not sure why Scott pretends like it isn't, surely he is aware of the DoucheBat series, or of course of his own NegaScott thing, where they will camp and tunnel with a vengeance and win even more decisively than they otherwise already most of the time do, 4ks at 4-5 gens galore. The argument then of course is that tunnelling (and camping) is simply too effective a strategy from the public match perspective where random survivors get absolutely demolished by it constantly, most of all solo survivors of course.

Sure you can say "just enjoy the chases even if you die and lose", and sure for some people (including myself, if only to certain extents) that's fair enough, but that's just not what most people want, they actually want to escape, and they get frustrated if they die all the time. Particularly so of course if it's to camping and tunnelling, which often simply do not leave much in the way of player agency or any gameplay altogether for the player on the receiving end. Which is even more understandably frustrating for players that do not play this game for a living and can't just go to their next match in their 8-hour playing session, but where those terrible games are among the few rounds they might get to play at all.

Lastly, he says there's nothing that can really be done about tunnelling that wouldn't upset the basic game balance of the killer being able to secure at least 1 kill on someone. Of course, as he also mentions there could be fundamental changes to the game that do achieve this (such as making it so the killer simply wins by getting X amount of hooks, and nobody getting sacrificed until that amount is reached), but there's absolutely things that can be done to make tunnelling (and camping) less effective of a strategy, and if that does upset the game balance, provide compensatory buffs to other aspects of killer gameplay. Decisive Strike could do something again, for one thing. The unhook Endurance could last 10-20 seconds, and even be replaced with the unhook invincibility, such that a tunnelled survivor has both that and the Endurance from OTR. Unhooked survivors could be healthy. The unhook Haste could last 60 seconds. Gen repair speeds could be increased whenever the killer is chasing the survivor most recently unhooked, and decreased whenever they are chasing anyone else. The aura of the most-recently-unhooked survivor could be revealed to all other survivors for as long as they are injured, enabling those other survivors to take hits for them, lure the killer away from them, heal them, position for save plays (e. g. flashlight/pallet/sabo saves). Remove hook grabs. Basekit Kindred. Increase gen repair speeds if the killer is within a certain range of a hooked survivor, and decrease them if the killer is chasing any survivor while another survivor is hooked, with that decrease in repair speed getting greater the farer away from the hook that chase is happening. Give killers power-ups based on how many survivors have hook states, and power-downs if a survivor is sacrificed with none (or only one) of the other survivors having hook states. These powers could apply to movement speed, pallet breaking and window vaulting speeds, hit recovery times, gen regression, information provided, and so on. As could any general killer buffs shipped to compensate for any of these or other camp/tunnel nerfs.

You put yourself under the lights you are bound to get scrutiny from the comunity, its like being a political comentator and not expecting people supporting/criticizing your positions.