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There is a reason that Decisive Strike is 3 seconds now...
And it's not because the developers decided to just nerf the perk without reason.
Those of you whom take just a few seconds to look up the history of the perk's changes will clearly see that Decisive Strike was buffed to 5 seconds simply due to the fact that Enduring was able to work against the Perk.
Then Enduring got changed to where it cannot work with said perk anymore, and the change ultimately remained despite the promise it would eventually get reverted.
Now, as of 6.1.0, the change was reverted and thus Decisive Strike lasts 3 seconds like it originally did.
So to those of you whom are complaining that this Perk is now useless against tunneling, do realize that this change was meant to happen back in 2019 at the very least, but was belated for reasons unclear.
The 5 seconds to 3 seconds change was always meant to happen for years. It finally happened, so don't be complaining about it. Instead, if you're going to use Decisive Strike, pay attention to where you intend to go, and maybe it'll save your ass.
Just don't rely on the perk as a crutch at this point and you'll be able to make use out of it still.
Comments
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So before it required a perk slot to make it 3 seconds and now it doesn't. Yeah, totally no reason to complain.
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So you know you could use this perk before being hooked also?
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And?
This was in version 2.6.3, before the conspicuous action nerf. Yes, the five second stun would've been a problem at that point, DS legitimately made survivors untouchable while they worked on gens.
But in 4.6, it was nerfed to only work if the survivor hadn't contributed to the team since the last unhook. That was a gargantuan nerf.
Yes, a five second stun is a problem on a perk that is either going to fire, or going to produce, effectively, up to 60 seconds of gen progress that the killer can't contest.
It is not a problem on a perk that only ever functions if the killer deliberately chooses to make it.
'It was supposed to go back to 3 seconds!' is just complete blindness to the actual balance and design of the perk. 3 second DS with the conspicuous action limitation and EGC ban is a joke. It'll hardly ever fire, and now when it does, it'll carry no value. Who would use a perk like that?
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Actually, I'm fairly certain that just like Self Care, it was nerfed for no other reason than to make it worse so that the usage would drop. The only important factor in most of these changes was making them used less often, regardless of reasons they were used in the first place.
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and? it's been 5 seconds for 3 years and it's shown that decisive is ok with a 5 second stun
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So what? Just because it was buffed to 5 seconds because of Enduring doesn't mean it needed to be changed back to 3. It's a bad perk now.
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The perk, which helps against tunnelling is crutch perk now. But killer slowdown perks are not crutch, they are alright!
What i can say, enjoy with longer killer queues.
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Survivor: I need DS or I just get tunneled straight out of the game and leave with 7k bloodpoints.
Killer: stop relying on crutch perks!
Survivor: okay, so why do you run three slowdown perks?
Killer: I NEED slowdown or the now 90 second gens still go too fast!
Survivor: so would you say you're crutching on them?
Killer: it's totally different! I swear!
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Yes, DS is one of those Perks. Iron Will another, one of the Nerfs would have been enough. They could have just disabled it while exhausted, this would mean that you cannot run Iron Will and Exhaustion Perks together if you want usage of both, which would be a big trade off.
Ruin is another one. Disabling it when a Survivor is dead would have been a fair Nerf, at this point the Killer would have a lot of pressure and does not need Ruin anymore while it would become a bit more bearable to play a 3v1 with a bunch of Gens to go for the Survivors. But the Regression-Nerf outright killed the Perk (it would have killed the Perk without the Perk being disabled after a dead Survivor as well).
So, yeah, DS is one of those Perks which just got nerfed to change the Meta. There were barely any complains about it after it disables after progressing the game by any means. And it should have been buffed in its Anti-Tunneling aspect if they decided to disable it in Endgame, yet they just destroyed it so that they can say that they changed the Meta.
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Ok, so explain what to do against Nurse, Blight, Spirit (I'm sorry my darling love, I'm sure you'll understand that I need to not be bias for the sake of conversation, but I still love you more than anyone, please forgive me), Billy, Artist, Huntress, and Pyramid Head when you only have 3 seconds. It was completely fine at 5 seconds. All it needed was the end game nerf, that's it.
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Guy looks at perk history only when it benefits his argument but ignores the history that's against his argument.... Smh bro
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Don't forget Demogorgon
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True
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DS was fine at 5 seconds.
It made sense for it to be 3 seconds when there were old instant heals, horrific chain tiles, enormous maps, god windows, ect.
It no longer does. Most Killers do not give a single ######### about a 3 second stun.
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There are better perks to run over DS now, 5 seconds would make it competitive, but even then I don't know if I would run it. The fact it is 3 seconds, definitely makes it a no brainer.
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Lol, you're missing a BIG piece.
DS's stun used to increase based on the perk's tier: 3 seconds at lvl1, 4 seconds at lvl2, 5 seconds at lvl3.
Then they decided to remove the interaction with enduring because using a 3 seconds DS againts Enduring meant that the killer was recovering from the stun while the survivor was locked in the DS animation.
You LITERALLY had the time do take 3 steps, and the killer could hit you again. LITERALLY.
Plus yeah, DS was always active, you could use it even if you hadn't been hooked and it didn't disable.
Post edited by Lycidas on2 -
All of this. Even against "regular" killers -- Pigs, Trappers, etc. -- 3 seconds is barely any time at all. If the idea behind DS is for it to be an anti-tunnelling perk (which it definitely turned into over time), then the current nerf to it made it basically unusable (especially when OTR is a thing).
I'd argue that, while the end game change was warranted, it should activate on both hook states and not just one, especially if the devs are going to leave it at the 3 second stun time. As is, all it seems the devs did was to nuke a perk just to say that they did so, without really giving much thought behind if it even needed to be changed at all.
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Punishing the tunnel broke chases at 5 seconds. 3 seconds just extends them.
Tunneling and camping got indirectly buffed this patch.
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That could have been an additional intention, but not the main reason why they nerfed it. They saw the perk reworks--and by extent the desire to make them less useful--as a secondary reason to finally revert the change that they made to Decisive Strike three years ago.
We finally got the reversion that was promised, regardless of the reasoning behind it.
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Tunneling got indirectly buffed. Camping got directly buffed. There isn't a single change that negatively impacted camping, but nearly everything from shorter chases, longer gen times, BBQ incentive to leave the hook removed, monstrous shrine making the basement stronger, etc. all contribute to a huge buff to camping.
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With the conspicuous action change DS could stun the killer for 10 seconds and it'd be fine. Hell, make triggering DS uninstall the game on the killer's computer and I'd be OK with it.
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To be fair the killers who dont care about the 3 sec stun also didnt care about the 5 sec stun.
As an example i typically try to play fair killer more than less. I will generally slug at 5 gens if your on death hook, and typically tunnel by accident or if you piss me off. If you pissed me off i couldnt care less about your ds, I am gonna tunnel straight through that.
As for the 3 vs 5 sec debate i will say both sides have merit however by changing the perk and reducing its effectiveness (its not worthless, but because of the drop animation maybe 4 sec would be more appropriate), once the dust settles and data is collected we may see other changes to prevent tunnelling at a base level.
For instance extending the base borrowed time or adding a no exhaustion 2 second sprintburst before the haste kicks in or losing collision with the killer for a few seconds, or 10 seconds of no pain noise, blood, scratch marks and maybe increasing the visability/time to disappear of the unhookers scratch marks.
Several of these things are already happening with current perks so we can see the effectiveness of them
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I am one of those killer and feel it should be reverted.
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I cared enough about a 5 second stun before 6.1.0 enough to try to counter it.
After, 6.1.0 and chasing down survivors after eating through their endurance if I pick up and get stunned it's like "Oh they have DS" and most often I down them again in under 10 seconds because they just don't have a chance to get anywhere. Most often I am playing Bubba.
They tried 3 second DS in 2.6.0 and it lasted until 2.6.3, they should know it's bad. Even though Enduring affected it back then not every killer was running Enduring.
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This cannot be true. BHVR told us they knew DS was used so often to help survivors avoid being tunneled out of a game early.
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who cares, 5 seconds wasnt even that bad
i literally dont care if they revert back to the 5 second change. All I want is to keep the change where it doesn't work end game, that's it.
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With DS deactivating entirely once all gens are done, it would make some sense to revert the stun to 5. Anyone playing killer no longer has that concern that a survivor will use DS for a cheap escape, and if DS is used to deter the act of tunnelling, then it needs to be a viable anti-tunnel perk. I've not used it, but have faced it as killer and it's just a mild inconvenience. Those extra couple of seconds do punish the killer for being greedy, so I'd certainly be for that returning (but keep the deactivation after the final gen - that's a good change).
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It must suck that a get out of jail for free card isn't enough to escape the killer.
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It was nerfed again because of the meta and because a bunch of killers feel they are entitled to get a hook if they got someone down. That's why they also complain about bodyblock, flashlight saves, etc. They make their downed state hooked transition harder.
If only pallet saves worked as intended (the save fails most of the time even when you get the stun points), they would complain about that as well.
Also, 3 seconds is nothing. And 3 seconds is the gross stun, the net stun is pretty much below 2.
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Nah, it was nerfed to prevent free escapes, as they stated. I do not believe they are lying. Heck, barely any killers ever even complained about DS; I was like the only one here and I do not feel entitled to hook if I get a down. No idea where you are getting that from. I have literally never seen that attitude, ever. Not even from the most stereotypical of killer mains.
I think you are just mistiming the stun. There are iframes until the pickup has completed.
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If it was only an issue of a free escape from the trial, nerfing it at EGC would have been enough. But the cry over the "DS only helps you escape a chase I already won" has been repeated for years.
Haven't really seen a post from you against it, but we get posts against survivor mechanics to prevent the killer from hooking or getting to the hook every week.
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Preventing it from working once the gates are powered was the only change it needed to prevent the "free" escapes. Those "free" escapes being when a survivor being downed within crawling distance of getting out an open gate before their DS timer ran out.
The nerf from 5 to 3 seconds of stun time was an arbitrary nerf designed to reduce its usage rate. A horrible change which greatly reduces it's effectiveness at punishing and deterring tunneling.
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