The new Thana nerf is completely meaningless
The problem of thana has always been its use on certain few killers (Legion,Plague) who could gain a huge advantage from it, while for all other killers the perk was completely OK.
Now the situation is comical, the perk has been nerfed for every other killers except for the above ones because a 2% speed action penalty is ridicoulous and you hardly have all the survivors injured at the same time.
For Legion and Plague nothing has changed: healing ("cleansing") against Plague is a terrible countemeasures to drop thana effect as you are literraly giving her a strongest power. Healing against Legion is more reasonable but let's not forget that it has the add-on that inflicts the broken effect for 60 seconds (not to mention the fact that every legion has sloppy butcher in 70% of cases)
Thana needed a rework, but that was definitely not what was intended
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Doesn't the Broken Add-Ons only activate if you mend yourself? Can't you just get a teammate to mend you and then heal up, nullifying Thanataphobia?
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The existence of counterplay doesn't change the fact that this change means Thana will only be run on the two killers who were specifically called out in the update as being problematic when using it. BHVR took a perk that everyone could use, but a couple killers abused, and made it into a perk only those two killers will ever use, and one of them barely cares about the change at all.
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They did goof that one up. I mean, it's about as well handled as Mettle of Man, so at least they are consistent in their decision-making.
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It makes zero sense. It's now useless on every killer except for the two killers it was already problematic on, in which case it's pretty much unchanged given how those killers play. Like...I *guess* it won't be fully active all the time in some cases, but still. Just, why?
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It will still suck on Legion/Plague. They are reducing its effectiveness by an almost 3 to 1 ratio. The slowdown you get from injuring one survivor now, will require having 3 injured survivors to make up the difference. Not to mention, if a survivor dies, you are capped at 6% slowdown (vs 16.5% now). This is basically what they did with the ruin nerf. The slowdown will be so minimal that it won't be worth wasting the perk slot for.
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Exactly this. It will be less effective if you waste time healing against Legion and less effective if you cleanse against Plague. However, if only one Survivor cleanses against Plague, everyone basically has to cleanse.
I really dont understand their thought process by making the Perk super-bad on basically every Killer EXCEPT those where it was problematic.
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Choose to not cleanse is a stategy, and it's the most efficient. What does "boring" have to do with it?
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This nerf will achieve 2 things:
- reduce the popularity of Legion and Plague (we´ll be less likely to face them)
- reduce the lethality of those 2 killers, since its effect is non existant unless all 4 survivors are injured (dead doesn´t count as injured).
So a success i guess.
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I don't think Thana was originally a problem. It seemed to rarely get picked, and it didn't seem too oppressive. But then it got a double buff with the value per stack being increased, on top of the gen time increase. The multiplicative factor of those buffs swung it out of the park.
Just put Thana's value per stack back to what it was, first. If it's still oppressive then, adjust from there.
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As someone who plays a lot of Plague, having my power a lot vs. having the whole team broken is six of one, half a dozen of the other, imo.
It's a strategy, but I don't think not cleansing the obvious play many people think it is.
And let's be honest, most Legions don't get 4 hits/everyone injured at the same time that often.
But I also I don't think Thana was that big a deal. Annoying, but certainly not oppressive.
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Choosing to not cleanse is a strategy, but it's not the most efficient strategy against a Plague all of the time. You don't want everyone on the team cleansing right off the get-go at every available opportunity, sure -- that's bad strategy -- but unless everyone on the team is a God-tier looper, a team that chooses to not cleanse until the very end of the match is essentially giving the Plague permanent one-shot capabiity for the entirety of the match, and it's an easy way to end up all dead in a hurry against a good Plague. A lot of Plagues bring an Apple add-on for the additional fountain, so everyone not cleansing doesn't even deny her their power either in many instances.
I have a LOT of matches I've won as Plague where a whole team stayed broken and I snowballed like crazy to get the win before they could do anything to stop it. Matches that I've won because one survivor cleansed (usually in a place where a gen was already done, making that fountain inconvienent to get to) -- aren't even close to that number.
ETA: So far as Legion goes, if the survivors are smart -- even if they're not part of a SWF -- they'll stay separated against a Legion, the easiest counter to their power, and making it difficult for them to get everyone injured. If a Legion is trying to get everyone injured constantly, then they're not getting people down. Those games will be tedious, but winnable if the Legion isn't actually hooking anyone. If they can get all four injured, keep them all injured, AND get hooks against survivors who are spreading out across the map -- then either the survivors just aren't good, or the Legion is a God-level player, or both -- and that match was going to end up a 4K regardless.
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What are you talking about, this is a perfect change if you ask me. This perk is no longer busted against solo Q because as long as one person heals its not much of a problem.
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I don't understand why they didn't just nerf it to 4% per stack. At 16% max it's on par with Gift of Pain.
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I guess all the crying survivors were loud enough to be heard from Canada
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Well needed. Entitled killers need to just learn to adapt. Obviously they were boosted and are just upset they can't push E to win anymore.
See how annoying that can be?
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honestly, I'm okay with that because I was tired of seeing literally ever killer running Thana. that perk is annoying as hell and i hope they kill it so i only see it when I see a Legion (although I also hope to never see Legions)
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Dying Light is now a better slow down for all other killers besides plague and legion lmao
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Thana is useless once again. Well done, devs
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Thanataphobia wasn't ok for most killers it was bad on most killers. Now it's still bad on most killers but it is easier to deal with. With plague you just need 1 person to cleanse and you only get a 6% slowdown, with legion you only have to have one person healed. I would say this change make thanataphobia kinda useless on everyone except plague.
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When one survivor is dead, you DON'T NEED a 16.5% decrease. With 3 survs left, one is hanging, one is chased, one has to rescue. No one left to do a gen anyway. And if they manage to do the remaining gens and get out with just 3 ppl, the killer misplayed massively.
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The way I see it, the perk was okay on all killers and busted on Legion and Plague. Whatever nerf or rework they had planned would always have destroyed it on all killers to make it just okay on Legion and Plague.
Like, I don't see how they could have changed this perk to make it okay on Legion and Plague and still useable on everyone else.
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Out of curiosity, how would YOU change Thana to be still strong for any other killer but not as problematic with legion and plague?
Issue is, there's no easy solution to achieve this. Making it stronger for the other killers makes it stronger for Legion/Plague as well. Nerfing it for Legion/Plague likely nerfs it for all other killers as well.
What is your NICE AND EASY solution for this?
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I dont really have a NICE AND EASY solution for this. But it is also not my Job to provide them. In the end, it will probably be a full Rework.
But the thing is, if many players can tell that the solution they went for is bad, this means that the Devs themselves did think even less about it than those players figuring it out (minutes after reading the Patchnotes).
In general, a Perk which is only useful on a very small amount of Killers and useless on every other Killer is just very, very bad. And this is what Thana has become - it is STILL oppressive on Legion and Plague, but now you will not see it on any other Killer in the game.
Again, I dont have a NICE AND EASY solution, but probably a full Rework. But in general, Slowdowns should be capped at some point so that you cannot stack Slowdowns and have Gens take way above 2 minutes. But this again is a Job for those who actually make money with the game.
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I agree it may need a rework, but thats nothing for a hotfix patch. The perk needed some quick numbers change, and it got it.
I don't think that change is bad, btw, I actually like it! Bc. it gives a counterplay, or tradeoff, to the perk. You as a survivor can drastically reduce it's effectiveness by healing (wasting time against legion) or cleansing (giving Plague corrupt fountain). I guess thats the main point of the change, giving the players some kind of counter to the perk.
"In general, a Perk which is only useful on a very small amount of Killers and useless on every other Killer is just very, very bad."
Why is it bad? Some killers synergize more with perks than others. M1 perks in general. BBQs aura is good with fast killers, but meaningless with slow ones. Auras in general can be hit or miss with Spirit, since she cannot see them in phase. TR perks are bad with stealth killers, and meaningful with big TR killers (Myers EW3, Doctor). Oblivious effects are bad with Legion. Nurses calling is dead perk with Plague. Many perks do not proc when controlling victor. Hoarder works for Pinhead and maybe Nemesis (do his chests count for hoarder? Never tried that...).
There are so many limitations for killer and perk combinations, why is thana doing the same such a big deal?
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It is totally fine that some Perks are only really useful on some Killers. However, it should not be the case that a Perk gets changed into a way that it ends up like this. Then it should be reworked.
"There are so many limitations for killer and perk combinations, why is thana doing the same such a big deal?"
The thing is that Thana was complained about mainly for Legion and Plague, since those keep you injured and on top of the increase to 90 seconds per Gen, it means that the outcome could be pretty oppressive (almost 2 minutes per Gen with Thana alone). However, the Devs did not address this, instead they made the Perk bad for every other Killer.
Nobody complains about having a Debuff against the other 28 Killers, since against those, it at least makes sense to heal.
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"It is totally fine that some Perks are only really useful on some Killers. However, it should not be the case that a Perk gets changed into a way that it ends up like this. Then it should be reworked."
I totally agree it should be reworked, but like I pointed out, it's a hotfix patch, full reworks are not to be expected. So a numbers change has to suffice for now.
"The thing is that Thana was complained about mainly for Legion and Plague, since those keep you injured and on top of the increase to 90 seconds per Gen, it means that the outcome could be pretty oppressive (almost 2 minutes per Gen with Thana alone). However, the Devs did not address this, instead they made the Perk bad for every other Killer."
I disagree, for one they decreased the rate in all situations, for all killers, including Legion/Plague. For two, the new "formula" allows to counter/tradeoff the biggest slowdown. Before, when all were injured, healing one would "only" account for 5.5% reduction, more or less neglectable. Now, healing one reduces the slowdown by staggering 14%!
If anything, I feel Thana might be even too weak, even for Legion / Plague to use. There's always some claudette self caring through mangled against Legion (sadly), or someone brings a boon and it's a constant shift between healthy and injured. So Legion could have a hard time keeping all four injured. Same goes for Plague, if players wisen up and use the fountains strategically, instead of avoiding them like the plague (pun not intended), it may be hard for her to have full thana stacks as well. In contrast to Legion, she cannot use her power to find the remaining survivor(s) not infected.
"Nobody complains about having a Debuff against the other 28 Killers, since against those, it at least makes sense to heal."
Oh, there are so many ppl even in this thread complaining hard that the perk will be useless on all other killers.
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It's cute how people think thanat is still viable on legion. It's not.
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