I think this patch shows a LOT about survivors
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Ah now I'd forgotten that vid. Good find.
It doesn't say much of anything though and again they chime in a lot to say that rank and MMR aren't related. So maybe if you pip it might take contribution into account, which I sincerely hope it does but for the most part its all just speculative opinion.
I guess the main thing they don't want is folks trying to game the system by knowing the exact parameters the make you rank up or down.
It's easier just to feed joe public an escapes and kills count line and when someone complains about being matched with ranks above or below them remind them that ranks plays no part in it.
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... Wow. No words. Wish Mandy or Peanits would get in here to clear this up - because if other people are as convinced as you are that would explain a lot of "but I'm high MMR" statements made on these forums.
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No it isn’t, it’s just common sense.
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NO ONE IS MANIPULATING THE STATS. STOP PUSHING THIS IGNORANT MEME THEORY.
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Right, entitlement through the roof. You have no argument because it's fact the Pip system exist as the measure of win or loss.
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Low killrates? Over 50% is more than enough. Some killers were even higher. If you think survivors were busted, there is no help, cause there was no evidence. The game is acutally the most unbalanced way since years, buffing one side to the top while trashing the other has nothing to do with balance anymore. stop being unreasonable.
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It was and probably still is heavily survivor sided when playing against a decent SWF team or at the highest levels of play.
The last time they released data it showed most hovering around 50% but that was averaged out at all ranks. Perhaps they took a look at high level play and saw the massive disparity there. Or the numbers dropped significantly at some point.
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Love how people just keep saying solo q sucks lol, it’s a team game. If you want solo q games go play single player. Multiplayer games require communications
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Who cares for less than 1% of the gameplay? This isnt a competitive game. Breaking the game for 99% just some people want to 4k in high MMR? Surely not.
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Facts are: killers never started dcing every single match or trying to ruin The entire game in some entitled whining protest. But survivors are doing that right now. That’s what the patch says
i 4k probably 90% of my games now and did as well pre patch. I only lose to VERY good swfs on comms, and even then they have to work for it
but the amount of teabagging clicking and “gg ex” these toxic players love to engage in doing made learning killer the single worst gaming experience of my life. Playing killer in this game (atleast prior to these buffs) was a pay your dues role point blank.
i had to learn to play better. Period. Against rude disrespectful scumbags pretty much all the time. Twabagging after they e already won, sore winners every game
last night I 4ked two games in a row. Both swfs that wanted to send me salt after
one had the audacity to call me a tunneler when I hooked every player 1-2 times before the first death happened with one gen left. Didn’t even know what the word meant. I played so well and really impressed someone watching me play, and couldn’t even get a single jerk to just say good game.
When I play survivor and the killer impresses me I always do. Hell I got hatch against a spirit (I do also play survivor and I ONLY solo q survivor before any of you ask if I play that side) and I messaged them to say they earned a 4k and I got lucky. We’ve been chatting a few days now. And I made a friend who I beat her whole team as legion on ormond. But 99% of these players who are protesting are toxic in game because they are toxic AS people. Period.
next game three Leon’s in the same stupid outfit running meganheals so I had to get triple the hits as usual. 4k @ 3 gens left. Tried bullying in game of course. I really want to stop being tilted and angry and “us vs then” so I tried to say “gg you guys played well it was impressive” and I get hit with “we weren’t even trying besides I didn’t ask you, was I taking a survey?”
the survivors in this game point blank just want a bully simulator. They do not care about the game and are willing to destroy it and burn it to the ground just to get their bully simulator back
I am SICK of WINNING and still being angry and tilted anyway. At least when I used to lose a lot as a new player I could remind myself I needed to improve
this patch doesn’t say anything new about survivors. They are the same they’ve always been but now instead of ruining the match they are ruining the entire game
would they like it if pre patch when they had a 5-15 minute queue time the killer just went afk all game or dced ? Nooooooo don’t be toxic to US we wanted to be toxic to YOU. And I know they didn’t because I’ve done it before. If I load in and four people are clicking and being jerks, I park my killer in a corner facing a wall to stop the flashlights and I open another game or a book. They aren’t playing to play the game they are playing to win, and chasing them and letting them goad is their win. The escape isn’t their win, tilting the killer is their definition of a win. So I don’t give it to them.
i WANT them to keep dcing and getting reported for dying in hook. Let them do it and get banned and those of us who actually enjoy what is an otherwise amazing game can go back to enjoying it.
tl;dr long rant, but op I’m sorry survivors haven’t been this way, are this way, and will continue to be this way. I spent the last six minutes this pretending there isn’t an us vs them mentality, trying to say gg and good luck gamers, complimenting people that win against me, doesn’t matter.
their goal is to ruin the game period. And they are succeeding
mi really wish it wasn’t this way. I love both sides of this game. But every single game I loaded into as survivor yesterday one of my teammates decided to taunt the killer, never did a gen, got tunneled out after GOADING the killer into doing it, then we had to sweat being a player down.
i finally just stopped caring recently and am just going for hatch and gate. Ow. Wut my but on gens and let the team figure it out. That spirit I got hatch against? Two players were on hook while I did the last gen and one sandbagged me in the match and got me on death hook when they hadn’t been hooked yet. So I left BITH of their toxic swf squad in hook and played for hatch. And I escaped. And that’s just the game now.
went for a save a million times this week just to have the player miss their skill checks on purpose while in running to them if not sandbag need after the unhook
so Idc if killers are camping and tunneling, the patch says a lot about survivors indeed. It says they deserve every single thing that killers or non toxic teammates do to them now.
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Ok, so let's balance the game around the 99% of the players. Let's look at the most recently released data then:
So, this data is from 2021-2022. We can likely assume that the kill rates either dropped below 50% pretty significantly, causing the devs to decide to buff killers as a whole, or that they shifted their idea of balance and are aiming for like a 60% kill rate or something else. Either way, if we look at this chart and want to balance for the "average player" looks like we need to:
Buff the nurse
Buff the twins.
Nerf plague
Nerf pig
Nerf trapper
Nerf myers.
Do you agree with all of those?
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Probably most people because of the way things were before, ended up in higher MMR than where they belong to. And now they get stomped because of that.
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Youre just assuming something changed. With no evidence. And youre doing exactly what the Devs did: looking at numbers with no reasoning, cause even your "proposals" make no sense.
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Those numbers are officially released numbers provided by the devs and include averages across all ranks. We must assume something changed, either the dev's mindset on what is balanced, or that kill rates went down, otherwise why would they do a buff to killers as a whole only 6 months later?
The data doesn't tell you exactly HOW you should do something, but it does point you in the right direction on stuff. If you see that a killer has a 100% win rate, wouldn't you say that killer probably needs to be nerfed in some way? Maybe you don't exactly know how, but you definitely know to look at that killer.
So my point still stands, if we want to balance around the "99%" then these are the things we must do. You can't have it both ways. If you only want to "balance around the 99%" when it benefits one side, then you show a clear bias.
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I play both sides and have close to 6000 hours. I kept track of my last 50 games rolling solo survivor. I escaped 2 out of 50. Not a euphoric feeling but I was tunneled much less and actually enjoyed the games. I am of the opinion that this being a horror game (it just is), that escape should be a rare event. It also made me ease up on the sweat when playing as killer. I am merciful when I can tell survivors are struggling or they don't often escape. I love the new patch but i am deathly afraid of what is going to happen to nurse.
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Mostly due to tunneling, no doubt. Nerfing killers creates more tunneling.
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Sounds like we need to nerf tunnelling, huh?
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I play both sides, and this was true for a few days. Now i am escaping probably 50% of my games or more when my team doesn't DC or intentionally give up.
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Tunneling isn't as much of a problem as camping is, which i'd argue needs to be looked at more. But the solution to one could be the solution to both.
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By buffing killers, yes. Most of the tunneling is due to overpowered mic players. Stronger killers will eventually make it so tunneling is unnecessary, although some will never get it as they play exclusively to make people mad.
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Well, that was already tried, and it didn't do jack to reduce tunnelling and it certainly didn't nerf tunnelling!
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Wow, I will have to see tonight. I still think 50% is too much though.
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you know not everyone swf on discord or in chat room with them.
they already buffed killer guess what tunneling and camping got worse why you think killer Q are so long they going to get long as time go by enjoy.
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You actually do understand how to analyze data the same way devs do: unreasonable.
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Meh, so much lack of ability (willingness) to adapt in this community. 4 v 1 will always be hard to balance but I think much of the problem is in the community, including killers. I'm a believer in minimal tinkering and folks learning to adapt. 2 escapes every game facilitated by a handful of EZ mode perks (both sides) is not really a challenge.
I can agree though, tunneling/camping should not be a formula for easy wins, nor should mics. Those two things being nerfed or solo players brought to the level of swf with far less incentive and viability for killer bad behavior, are what will make the game truly great.
Edit-the game is already great...I should have said greater...or something.
Post edited by Garboface on0 -
I'm simply pointing out the absurdity of the argument that we can't balance the game at high levels because "We need to balance around the 99%" If we balance around the 99% one way, we need to do it all ways. Otherwise you are just biased.
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I'm surprised mods leave this kind of toxic nonsense up. This serves nothing but to fill egos of the entitled.
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Let the straw manning begin
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Balancing around the 99% is fine as long as devs understand the underlying issues of their statistics. But they dont. And you make the same mistake just talking around numbers.
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Again, so you are saying the following statements:
- High level SWF players are fine, we can't balance around them because it'll hurt the 99%
- As such we need to buff nurse and twins, and nerf pig, myers, trapper, plague, because not doing so hurts the 99%.
If you agree to one of those statements you must agree to both. Because both would imply balance around the 99%. If you don't agree, fine, if you want to try and say 1 is good but the other isn't, then anything you say becomes invalid because it is filled with an obvious bias for one side.
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Killer requires no skill if you camp and tunnel. For now you have to be lot more skilled than killer to escape or killer has to make big mistakes. I haven't escaped agains't killer who was good after the patch if we don't count hatch. The thing is most killers are bad or just average.
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How often do you want to repeat yourself? And how often do you want to ignore my words?
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This is a common line around here.
"You can't balance around high level swf!"
"High level nurses can't keep getting away with it!"
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How often are you going to ignore what i am saying? All you said was "you are wrong" provide me evidence that i am wrong. If you believe we should balance for the 99%, then we should balance for all of them.
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What's funny is i don't disagree with the statement. What needs to be done first and foremost is to close the gap between solo queue and SWF, and then start balancing the game around that. We can fix SWF without hurting solo, just like we can buff solo without buffing SWF. And i don't even mean through like mechanics like "gens take longer in a SWF" But through actual in-game mechanics.
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Since nobody answered this I'll explain to you how it works.
The kill % statistics take into account ALL ranks. Believe it or not but majority of dbd players are casuals who will probably never play at the level where actual balance matters. Why? Because on low level killer is always going to be superior. Why? Because survivor are much harder to play for novice players who have no experience. Swinging your weapon at clueless surviviors is easier than looping.
If you were to take 5 people new to the game and tell them to play both sides against each other I'd bet most if not all games would end in 4k. And that's exactly why the kill rate is so high and why the kill rate argument is completly irrelevant here. Because what we talk about is balance and balance applies to players who know how to play.
Before the patch most of the killers playing against top level survivors would require actual survivor ######### ups to get 2k and to get a fabled 4k survivors would need to crash and burn, trip on their own legs and go afk for 1 min to eat nuggies (it's a joke, don't take this literally lol). No matter how good they actually are, they need survs to be bad to win. That's not balance.
And yes, nurse and blight are strong, but that's 2 out of what, 30 killers? If 7% of all killers are strong it doesn't make all killers strong.
Again - I could bet my arm that if you narrowed the stats down to the top level players (which is impossible because how do you actually determine who that is), you'd get kill rate at least below 50%, I'd guess probably even below 40%.
I'm not arguing that's how the game should be, I think a slight imbalance towards survivors is how the game will do best because casuals are still a majority of players and game needs those casuals to be invested, but saying that survivors want balance and that game was balanced before is laughable.
And no, I am not a killer main, I actually am survivor main who also get annnoyed by randoms running my games down and soloq being a huge pain. But I'm not blaming killers for being too strong, I blame fellow survivors who got used to being op and are being unable to adapt.
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I just want to say that this post is so true and perfect describes the dynamic of the game.
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Also, some of the kill rates would be higher than as well, but the amount of AFK killers I was going against to lower their MMR.
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I honestly do not mind killers being stronger, hell they are meant to be strong. The thing I hate in solo q is just lately people throwing on hooks, DCs and camping/tunnelling. It's my teammates I am been put with its awful.
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You can't blame these people, Survivors have been spoon fed since the game came out, you can't just take that away from them and not expect them to cry
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