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My Thoughts on “Conspicuous Actions”
I absolutely think the deactivation of any perk for a “conspicuous action” is crap.
For a survivor, it can easily be translated to “either get tunneled or make yourself lose by not being able to perform any of the objectives needed to progress towards escaping.” Many will argue “well, if you can do something then you’re not being tunneled” but that’s simply not true. Me tapping a gen doesn’t mean the killer isn’t chasing me or hasn’t used their stealth to hide around the corner just to down me again and hook me with no consequences. This defeats the purpose of Killers having any accountability for being toxic.
I was so excited for the huge perk rework and all of the things mentioned at the 6th anniversary, but I absolutely hate playing the game now. I mean, HATE, playing. Often times there is TOO much being done at once towards either side before you can take the time to evaluate the single change you’re making.
Example: increasing gen completion time while buffing an excessive amount of regression perks.
Example #2: increasing Killer’s M1 recovery while decreasing Survivors speed boost from a hit and buffing bloodlust.
The examples don’t stop there. It’s an ongoing list. Bottom line, what Killer perks are turned off or deactivated by a Killer simply playing the game? Name one… There aren’t any because that’s ridiculous, but it continues to happen to Survivors and I am over it.
PS: Can we talk about how a camping Bubba continues to be the only Killer who is unaffected by the base kit BT and can down both Survivors immediately.
Comments
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(I think your first example has a typo in it, since they decreased the speed of gens and not increased it)
To be fair, Ruin gets deactivated when a survivor dies, but the perk was pretty much already ruined before it (pun intended). No other killer perk comes to mind that gets deactivated midgame on its own.
I really hate the conspicuous actions as well though.
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It is not toxic for a killer to down someone they see repairing a generator, it is however very dumb to punish a killer for doing that very thing which is his job
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While I can understand your frustration, the groundwork for "conspicious actions" was added back in the days when people would use old, old DS to basically do anything they want with a big 1min safety net below their buttocks, ie they could repair gens, then run circles around the killer and get their attention, get chased and then go down, stunning the killer and getting away. It was pure madness.
And because DS needed SUUUUUCH a long list of actions that made it deactivate, they just called it a day and gave this list a keyword, namely "conspicuous actions". This had the added benefit of making other perks use this mechanic without setting up entirely new rules or confusing players.
But lets see, what killer perks are there, whoms use you could potentially lose entirely? Well, chiefly ALL hex perks, which is already a pretty big class. All hex perks have the inherent potential of being cleansed within seconds of the trial starting, while sometimes not being that strong themselves.
Blood Warden is a fun and actually cool perk that gets hard countered by a technique that nearly every survivor uses every game without any detrimental effect, ie 99%ing the exit gates.
Corrupt Intervention - sometimes the survivors just sit it out and then you waste an entire perk slot for nothing.
Coup de Grace - you cant "activate" the perk, its automatically used up every time you lunge, potentially wasting all that extra range.
There are probably more, but hex perks alone are already in a pretty sad state right now.l
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I hear you, but on the other hand it was the offensive use of DS that led us to this place. Survivors shouldn't to just be invincible and able to do objectives right in the killer's face. It pushes beyond the realm of "anti tunnel". I think that running/being healed/self healing being the only allowable actions fits with "anti-tunnel".
Maybe actions could be allowed again if you reach a certain distance from the killer (like the other side of the map)? But to be able to get unhooked and drop right on a nearby gen/totem/etc.? Yeah, no. It's to help you get away, so get away.
I also don't think tapping gens should be a thing. Gens are not a game of tag; I think stopping regression should require at least a few seconds of interaction.
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The only reason DS was abused is because it was the only successful perk to counter tunneling. The fact that there has never been a punishment for tunneling/ camping is insane to me. It’s overused because of the number of Killers who are toxic. The fact is, even when DS was the way it was, Killers still polish you for using it by continuing to camp you and they catch up quicker because of bloodlust buff, decreased stun time & Survivor recovery speed.
I understand how frustrating it is to have DS used, but the bottom line with my frustration is that there continues to be an absence of consequences for tunneling/ camping gameplay.
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Conspicuous Actions are fine
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Anti-tunneling perks prevent tunneling. If you are performing a conspicuous action, you are not being tunneled, therefore the anti-tunnel perk disappears.
It sounds like it makes sense, because it does.
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I see what you mean with Hex perks, but there is Undying that gives you a second chance for your Hexes. Also, when someone takes time to do the Hex perk, that goes in your favor because that’s more time they’re not doing a gen (i.e. not contributing towards getting out of the trial).
Bloodwarden, can be activating by forcing someone out of exit gates while you have someone downed. You can also waste Survivor’s time until the end Game collapse is well past the point of them being able to escape when it is activated. Lastly, you can open the gate yourself to increase the chance of using it.
Point is, I don’t see any perks listed that the Killer themselves can deactivate by progressing towards a win.
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For perks like ds and otr, then deactivating is fine because they are defensive perks.
What's questionable is MoM getting this treatment.
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The only thing I find really annoying is that BT technically got a slight nerf because of this new interaction. I was put in a situation where two teammates were in basement in end game, so I ran down saved the one and then the unhooked survivor saved the other, but because of the new interaction, the BT deactivated as they saved the other survivor.
In the old version of BT before the patch, this interaction would have let the two unhooked survivor escape the basement for my hook trade. I understand that the basekit BT shouldn't allow this to happen, but I was running the perk as well (my end game survivor build). It just feels kind of bad that an old interaction that used to result in a favorable situation has now been destroyed as well. I would understand having the basekit BT deactivate upon unhooking someone else, but not when someone brings the perk.
My only problem with conspicuous actions would be with the new MoM interaction and the interaction when someone gets the BT effect from the perk. Conspicuous actions are needed, it's just sad that they generalized this term to make it easier to attach to perks, but in the process changed old interactions.
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Ruin now deactivates when you eliminate a survivor.
Corrupt Intervention now deactivates when you down a survivor.
Thanatophobia now loses 75% of it's effect when you eliminate the first survivor (used to be 25% per survivor)
But that's just nitpicking.
The most telling thing here is how you refer to camping and tunneling as toxic behaviours that must be stopped.
This alone says everything about the type of player you are, namely one that's bever played killer.
Camping and tunneling can be toxic, if they're carried out very early in the game or if they target an individual for a toxic reason, but alone they cover a wide range of behaviours and tactics that are largely all fair and legit strategies.
Most obviously is that at endgame, when all gens are repaired, the killer has no secondary objectives left. When the exits are powered, all forms of camping and tunneling are entirely fair game. Hence why survivors second chance perks deactivate.
Not only is the behaviour they're targetting fair game at that point, but the act of gaining a second chance becomes infinitely more powerful, as you're not simply securing a few seconds to escape a chase and stay in the game, you're securing an escape entirely.
Second chance perks at end game are far more powerful, yet their purpose as anti-camp/tunnel measures is not necessary.
And for the rest of the game, it is absolutely true that if you have time to further your objectives, you're not being camped or tunneled.
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So, you want perks that provide you with a shield from the killer while you work on gens? Because the perks that use this mechanic do just that, they give you a shield and it is on you to determine whether you are safe enough or not to drop it.
If you don't like them, use different ones and yet they are seen as great perks by many... Because they are strong even with the restrictions.
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The point of the Conspicuous Action perks is to give you a chance to bet a safe distance from the killer to get yourself healed before resuming your normal routine. The most obvious way to tell if you feel safe enough that you’re not actively still being chased is monitoring when you take certain actions that require you to sit still. So yeah, if you stop to cleanse a totem or repair a generator you aren’t “being tunneled” and the effects can be turned off, nothing wrong with that.
”But what about if I want to tap a generator midchase to stabilize it?” Honestly the whole thing where survivors can instantly slap the top of a generator and it magically stop regressing is really silly, I kind of wish it wasn’t a thing. You should only be able to stabilize a generator after at least a modest, say, two second start time. Being able to do it literally midchase just looks dumb. If a side effect of Conspicous Actions is fewer survivors Fonzie slapping generators I’m all for it.
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I was waiting for someone to say that I’ve never played Killer - surprised it took this long. I actually have and do play Killer, but my thoughts on tunneling and camping remain the same. Now, I wouldn’t call end game camping toxic because there’s nothing else for you to do. I also wouldn’t call it camping if all the other Survivors are looping you in front of the hooked Survivor either… Because at some point, that Survivor has to realize they’re hurting more than helping.
As a whole, I still say tunneling and camping are toxic and should have some negative repercussion.
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Don't tap gens mid chase if you need the health state, and look around the area a bit instead of hopping right on a gen against a stealth killer if you don't know where they are and haven't healed up yet. If you have time to reset, you aren't being tunneled, you don't get a "Nuh-uh you can't touch me" forcefield so you can do gens with impunity just for being unhooked.
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I would assume you are in a low mmr. Every killer in the game can ignore base kit bt. Frankly base kit bt does absolutely nothing and is encouraging unsafe unhooks, thereby encouraging camping. It either needs buffing or removing.
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They didn't buff a single regression perk except jolt.
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And Eruption, and Overcharge, and Thana (initially)
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Thana isn't regression.
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It didn't frustrate me personally because I don't tunnel. But because it was so widely used, you had to assume everyone had it, which made the smart play to re-down someone and pick them up so they use it and make it unavailable in the late game. So in an odd way, it also contributed a bit to the problem it was trying to solve. Now with it shut down in end game (good change) that isn't an issue, but we got the stupid stun duration nerf.
And again, being able to get unhooked and just do anything with impunity for 60 seconds isn't acceptable. It's a non-starter.
What I would do to DS now is keep the conspicuous actions trigger, and not just restore the stun duration, but increase it to 7 seconds. Beyond that you're only affecting tunnelers who are gonna tunnel you no matter what.
And I know people are sick of hearing it, but there is no punishment strong enough to keep someone dedicated to the tunnel from tunneling. If someone decides they want you gone and will throw the game to get it done, there's nothing for that.
Like now, if you're running BT on top of basekit BT and the killer tunnels you through that, you're not talking about someone who is going to be dissuaded by anything BHVR can realistically add. Unfortunately tunneling and camping are more of a player problem than a game design problem, and there's not much you can do to really clamp down on it without busting the game.
I'm not saying nothing should be done, because something should. But I think buffing the DS stun duration probably going to be as effect as anything is ever going to be, because there's a line beyond which it simply won't make a difference what you do.
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Basekit BT is best used as a supplement, not a replacement. It stacks wit things. Run regular BT on top of it, that's actually pretty strong.
It should probably be buffed, but why would you want to remove something that's only additive? Out of protest?
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