Feedback and Suggestions
Feedback and Suggestions
Prove thyself needs a nerf
Survivors are catching on and the 1st gen is often getting done before i can physically cross the map. After i get there, they all split up, i chase 1, but the next gen gets done in 30 seconds or so with the other 3 survivors on it.
Comments
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They took Mettle of Man, and now you want this?
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Survivors should play without perks.
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You are acting like they are related. I disagree pretty much with every change they announced in the last announcement.
Explain to me what a killer is supposed to do when they literally cannot cross the map fast enough to stop the first gen from being done?
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survs gen stacking at the start a the corner of the map is good for killer. if they spread out its harder to pressure all of them at once when they are in differnt corners of the map. PT is best used for hotly contested gens (middle gens and last/2nd last gen) as well as bp gain. If you see 4 survs together its a bonus for some killers as well
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So, you get there. Start chasing one, maybe land a hit or 2 on the others. And they all slam a different gen while you chase the other one. Even if the other one just holds w and doesn't use pallets, you are still gonna take 35-40 seconds to down them, pick them up and walk them to a hook. After which prove thyself and 3 other survivors have just finished another gen and are probably already working on the 3rd.
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Technically relevant I guess, prove thyself is one of the reason why balance sucks.
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thats why you spread pressure and use slowdown perks. and 1 hook at 2 gens complete (and using your logic all other gens are at 0% cuz they slamming all together on a single gen) usually leads to a 2k in my experience (a fair result). Once you start getting hooks 1 survivor will be off getting a save and you chase the other, leaving 1 survivor to go gens instead of 3-4. From there you can start tunneling
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Nah, they can keep Autodidact, No Mither and the new Calm Spirit.
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People always say "spread the pressure" If the survivor literally holds w, the amount of time the killer spends getting the hit is twice as long as the time it takes the survivor to heal and then they are back on a gen.
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getting a hit shouldnt last over 32 seconds. holding W only works against m1 low mobility killers (that admittedly need buffs), but those killers have ways to somewhat make up for it, like setup/stalk killers. even after a sprint burst gives 18m of free distance (hold W gives 12m in those 3 seconds) can be caught up by a noob standard 115% killer who doesnt know how to zone survivors within 3.91 and 2.61 seconds respectively. of course theres other factors (survs dont start running only when you breath in their face) but you should catch up to them within 10 seconds and there they are forced to start looping, where a successful mindgame will end them.
Also btw as for too many loops and pallets and too big map sizes thats just map issues not prove thyself. those are real issues that should be addressed
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I'm sorry friend but no. I am a killer main and as much as I despise seeing that perk it isn't as busted as you think
Many survivors don't realize you take an overall action economy debuff when you do gens together. It makes that ONE gen go faster, but it's still going slower than if you did two gens separately.
Prove thyself simply removes that penalty and adds the tiniest of buff. That 15% buff includes making up for the (I believe 8-10% debuff? I forget the exact number) that survivors receive for doing the gen together
If they actually did three separate gens while you were in chase you would be seeing things go even faster depending on your mmr and skill bracket.
Tl;dr prove thyself is a decent perk at best. Depending on the survivor communications and gen spawns it can both help and actually even hurt them so no it doesn't really need a nerf. It's fine where it is.
Then again as a killer main sure get rid of it Lmao. I can be honest about how it works but I still want to win lol
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prevent the last gen from being done instead.
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"That 15% buff includes making up for the (I believe 8-10% debuff? I forget the exact number) that survivors receive for doing the gen together"
It's 15%. Prove thyself just removes the co-op penalty, it doesn't make gens go faster at all.
As mentioned earlier in this thread, it's only good for securing hotly contested gens.
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Thankyou for the clarification. I knew the general concept but not the exact numbers. So again to the OP, provethyself really kind of helps you as killer at times. Having two survivors in the same spot is basically free real estate. Plus once you find and kick that gen, that means they weren't on two separate ones so its a risk of them losing more progress than had they been on two gens.
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Two survivors working on a gen together have a 15% debuff. Prove Thyself buffs survivor speed by 15%, but that 15% is not based on the original speed but on the debuffed speed, meaning repair is still slower than if each survivor were working individually. It's explained on the wiki:
https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Prove_Thyself
I'll try to sum it up in an easy to read way, and I apologize in advance if I fail.
One survivor working on a gen goes at a speed of 1.0 charges per second. Without Prove Thyself, two on a gen each go at 0.85 c/s, three at 0.7 c/s, and four at a horrible 0.55 c/s. When using Prove Thyself, if four survivors are on a single generator, each survivor on that gen goes at 0.8 c/s. If all four survivors were able to work at solo speed, it'd be a total of 4.0 c/s, but even with Prove Thyself it's 3.19 c/s.
Really, unless it's the final gen, survivors should never group up to be more than three on a gen together even when running Prove Thyself. They are losing so much time doing that.
In other words, you are not only right, but in fact the perk is even less not busted than you originally thought.
Edit: Apparently I'm terrible at proofreading when I have a headache.
Post edited by TragicSolitude on4 -
Just removing co-op penalty itself is already worth more than pure gen time tbh.
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Prove Thyself is more inefficient than splitting up on 3-4 different Generators
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That level of coordination suggests a swf team. PT is fine in solo games - depending on the killer and how much pressure they supply, you sometimes don't even get much PT value. It's great when you do, but not guaranteed.
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Largest map is Mother Dwelling of 12.000m. Which the is ~109 x 109 m
Killer with 110% speed will take 25sec. The time to work on a single Gen with all 4 survivors is 41sec.
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this
I'm mostly using it post patch just to get 10000 objective
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Discordance is a really good counter to it.
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No.
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This post is specifically about prove thyself and wiki states it takes 28 sec to finish a gen with PT, I think you just proved it's basically impossible to secure a gen.
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We have to accept RNG happens in game. I spawned in a gym, seeing a survivor in shack through the window within starting screen, starts chase under 10sec into the game.
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Not a fan that it's mandatory to run multiple regression perks. Considering survivors are all stacking gen speed builds, you're setting yourself up for failure by not blowing half your build on non engaging and fun perks. Now that as a killer you have to run regression perks, you're setting yourself for failure as a survivor for not having gen speed buffs. Vicious cycle...
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I think they will nerf it in 6.2.0 like BBQ (no BP-Bonus anymore).
Who wants to bet for this? :-)
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Survivors should spawn on the hook
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You specify what happens for you with the first couple gens, but according to the devs themselves the first few gens are supposed to go fast:
In terms of the game's power curve, it's expected the first couple gens go fast. 4 Survivors, one Killer... several chases to get one Survivor out. But as the number of gens to patrol decreases, it becomes easier for the Killer to patrol, and their power rises. As the Survivors die off, the Killer's power increases more as there are fewer Survivors to work on gens.
from this post: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/995830/#Comment_995830
For a long time a big complaint from killers has been that three gens pop by the time they get their first down. The devs have said that's by design, but even still they have just recently increased gen time by 10 seconds for each gen, and they made some changes to killers' basekit to shorten chases.
The game is designed to snowball on either side. A killer who doesn't pressure gens enough will suddenly see a bunch pop, but as most killers know killing one survivor can bring gen progression practically to a halt.
If three or four survivors get on a gen at the beginning of a match and pop it, it was probably some corner gen you couldn't defend well, anyway. I mean, most killers will check the important gens in the middle of the map first, and wherever you may start unless the survivors bring toolboxes and stuff to really speed it up you're going to be able to kick them off a center gen.
No matter what, even with Prove Thyself equipped, survivors do gens less efficiently when grouped up. If you need it, Discordance counters survivors working together, and Corrupt Intervention counters survivors working on far-off gens at the beginning of a match.
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Can't really say good design honestly.
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All of this, except the debuff is actually 15%, and because of how the math works out, deducting the 15% nerf and then adding the 15% buff afterwards, it doesn't actually fully reimburse it. That's why you still see a red progress bar with Prove Thyself, it's still about 0.5% less efficient than repairing a gen solo.
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I feel it allows survivors to focus down key generators too quickly allowing for easier pressure in the late game with further apart gens, it's mainly problematic when paired with toolboxes/BNP I feel similliar to when slowdown is stacked on a killer.
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After BHVR gutted nearly every decent survivor perk, and messed with perfectly fine perks (like Botany Knowledge) giving them downsides or penalty's for using them, AND increasing gen speeds, buffing a lot of gen regression killer perks, and making it almost impossible Solo Q's to even get to end game, you want more survivor nerfs?
I think we should all load into the matched slugged. Killers can leisurely pick us up and hook us. If someone runs Unbreakabill? There will be forum threads calling it the OP Meta.
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absolutely not. prove thyself is not as strong as people think and it's one of the few perks left that makes solo queue remotely bearable. just stop.
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No if prove thyself is meta just use discordance, most of us only use PT for bonus BP it's not even good
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So you want them to spread out and do gens? Hey you’ll get a hook before the first gens pop but then you lose 3 in the process after your second chase, Prove Thyself is helping you as killer. You contest a gen and 2 people now aren’t doing a gen and now your pressure doubles. What do you else do you want lol? You even get more if there’s 3 survivors. Prove Thyself is only good during 3 gens. Otherwise it’s slowing down gen progression.
It only takes like 7 - 8 seconds off a gen. Isint even enough to negate the patch 10 more seconds gens. Which you need 2 people constantly on 1 gen without it being interrupted.
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Since the increased use of Thana Prove Thyself brought more into matches to counter that perk.
Before the new Thana I didn't see Prove Thyself much in my games.
Maybe I'm delusional but it's possible that the use of this perk will be brought less after the new update.
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Without having WGLF for stacks anymore, I like running Prove Thyself just on the chance that I might be able to get 10k Objective Bloodpoints. I wish it boosted BP gain without the need for co-op; that requirement makes the perk way more useful in SWF than in solo queue, like so many other survivor perks.
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Leave prove thyself alone, MOM got an unnecessary nerf. And it wasn’t even a good perk to begin with.
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Survivors have perks. A few of them are useful. Better nerf them. Only trash for those pesky survivors.
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Your math is wrong about this. Let's say average killer terror radius of 32 meters. Lets say it takes you a few seconds to figure out where the killer is coming from. So now the killer is 24 meters away. You start running away. The killer moves at 4.6 m/s and the survivor runs at 4.0 m/s. That means every second the killer gains .6 meters. Lunge distance is 6 meters at the maximum range. So you need to get within 6 meters of the survivor. 24 - 6 = 18 meters. You need to cross 18 meters of distance. At gaining .6 meters per second. This takes 30 seconds to do, bloodlust does kick in at some point, but only shaves off a few seconds, so let's call it, 25 seconds. You land your hit. The post hit speed boost now lasts for 1.8 seconds, and the hit cooldown is 2.7 seconds. During that time the survivor moves 6.0 m/s for the speed boost. Holding w, they gain 14.4 meters of distance. To close the gap at absolute maximum range of 6 meters, you need to close the gap of 14.4 - 6 = 8.4 meters. Gaining .6 per second, this takes 14 seconds.
Just holding w takes up way more time then people realize.
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Are you really surprised that in less than one month the Killer mains are already sharpening their pitchforks and preparing their torches again? Im surprised there werent complains about Prove Thyself the very day 6.1 went live...
P.D. There is a point where people just have to admit they are bad at the game and live with it.
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Because survivors were still figuring out the meta. Also i don't think they should nerf mettle of man, but that isn't the point of this thread. Saying "They took mettle of man" is what we call "whataboutism" and is not constructive and is a logical fallacy that makes anything you say regarding that unsound.
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