5 Reasons why Generators are now too Long
- They are the most boring part of the game, and the game should not have been updated in a way that amplifies it's worst qualities.
- There is nothing interesting about repairing generators which justifies their length. Compare Among Us, for example, where completing tasks actually involves a variety of challenges where you need to manipulate visual objects. DBD does not have any of this, and so the length is not justified by anything interesting.
- If the point was to make the game more balanced and easier for killers, other changes could have been made rather than one which makes the game more boring for survivors.
- (To the best of my knowledge) there is no publicly available data which can confirm or deny the fact that the game was ever survivor-sided to begin with. Survivors are now required to do extra time of the most boring part of the game for a reason that has never been publicly displayed through survivor vs. killer statistics.
- A ten second increase with the latest update is not a trivial difference. Most perks have effects that last for just a few seconds and make a drastic difference to the game.
Comments
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Normally I would disagree but most matches have been absolutely soul-crushing.
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This is not 5 reasons. Reason 1-4 are just different ways of saying gens are boring.
As for 4, I... I'm sorry, are you telling the developers, the people that have access to all the statistics, that there is no data that proves the kill rates were low? Especially when we don't even know their targeted goal?
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How are they boring? Maybe try hitting great skill checks if your attention span is less than 10 seconds.
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Bro no offense he saying its boring compared to chasing i guess
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Are you implying hitting great skill checks is in any way exciting or not boring?
and even then, skill checks are coming inconsistently, you can sit on a whole gen and may get only one or even no skill checks.
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Gens are the primary and only objective in the game, if you think gens are boring...play a different game?!
If gens are boring at 90 seconds, they were still boring to you at 80 seconds.
None of your reasons indicate on a BALANCE level that they should revert back to 80, just because you as an individual do not like doing gens does not mean that the game as a whole needs 3 gens being completed before the killer gets their first hook.
You are obsoletely correct, 10 seconds is not a trivial difference, because gens were absolutely and unequivocally being done far too quickly before this update.
Boredom is not a balance factor, and saying you're bored in 4 different ways is not a multifaceted reason as to why they should go back to 80 seconds.
CIV is a fun game, It's true i've played it! Maybe that's more your speed.
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To be fair, just because finishing generators is the main objective doesn’t make them exciting. Personally I play very little survivor mainly because it has so much downtime between doing generators, being on a hook and dying on the ground. Killer is much more consistently active role (unless you’re one of those players who likes to stand at a hook at Bubba for two minutes maybe? I don’t bother doing that though.)
I do agree that balance wise the 10 seconds made a noticeable difference in the kill rates and I don’t have a problem with that, especially as a killer main. 🙂 On the other hand I do get where the original poster is coming from in saying he would have preferred if the devs had come up with a way to achieve a similar kill rate by, say, increasing killer’s movement speeds by 5% across the board so they could get into chases and get downs more quickly. That kind of a change hypothetically would put more pressure on survivors doing the gens but do it in a way that their total time spent actually staring at a generator didn’t increase. Instead it would be an increase in the proportion of time you directly interact with the killer versus the time you spend on a gen not interacting with them.
It’s all academic though, 90 seconds is what we have, and it seems to be mostly balanced (the game went from being slightly survivor sided to slightly killer sided but still balanced in my opinion) so it’s not going to get reverted. Dong gens isn’t really my jam personally but obviously other people like it well enough so more power to them!
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What version are you playing where you don't get skill checks when repairing a gen? The only way this can happen is if you had 3 people on a gen with prove thyself or 4 on one gen.
Edit: wrong quote lmao
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3 includes information about the boringness of gens, but it isn't just 'a different way of saying' that they are boring.
1 states that the developers should not amplify the most boring part of the game
2 outlines what makes the gens boring.
As for 4, I'm obviously not saying the developers don't know. I'm saying WE don't know. I don't have access to the killer survivor win/loss data, and I would like if you could show it to me to prove why I should be doing this boring work in the game
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
How are they NOT boring? Really, do you think it is an exciting part of the game to sit and watch a progression bar creep upward for an entire minute and a half?
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Yes well I certainly am implying that hitting great skill checks is boring! What do you get out of it?? Seeing a milimeter of pixels populate your screen?
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Exactly, something that is the objective of the game shouldn't be so god damn boring! And why should I play a different game when I've put my money into this game that the developers have gone ahead and decided to make worse! I'm gonna complain about it unless I can get some sort of refund.
I don't understand your logic here whatsoever. If you have something that's boring, and then increase the necessity of doing that boring thing, that doesn't equal the same amount of boringness. That equals an increased amount of boringness.
The game seemed to be going fine for an entire 6 years at 80 seconds, so I think the burden of proof is on you to prove that increasing them makes it more balanced. Even so, something that involves increasing the amount of time spent on skill checks should not be done if other changes are able to be made.
You're also making it out as if I 'personally' have an issue with them. Please point me to the hoardes of people able and willing to say that Generators are by far the most fun part of the game!
Also, in the fourth paragraph, you wrote "obsoletely" when it's clear you meant to write "absolutely"...
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Okay? I am with you on this? That’s why I asked the other one if they are implying that great skill checks are not boring?
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It is hardly possible to change the mechanics of generators without destroying the game.
You forget that there are a lot of unique skills that have been crafted around generators.
What do you want to replace skill checks with?
Are you planning to update all skills related to generators?
It would also be necessary to update the other skills that can be associated with them.
Do you want survivors to pick up stacks to advance the progress bar?
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Maybe instead of repairing gens and watching a progress bar we should instead run around the map searching for generator parts and then come back to the generator and insert them into it to repair the thing if you can't handle 1m and 30s which often get's interrupted in some kind of way unless you are the most unlucky/lucky person in a match?
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
searching for gen parts has often been suggested - which at least would bring some kind of interaction and diversity in gameplay - though the devs have stated they tested this already and it didn’t result in a good way (but we don’t know how exactly they tried to implement it)
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
Then go do chases and unhook people or literally anything else except doing gens if you hate them so much. If you can't do the literal main objective of the game then maybe you shouldn't play it or play with bond, prove thyself and resilience. That's 24% less gen repair time even with 1 other person on a gen. After all you despise gens so much.
This game isn't chasing simulator 2022 or unhooking and healing people simulator 2022.
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
We do need other sort of interactions for Survivors. Doing just gens is indeed boring.
The ten second increase was a dumb change not by itself but because BHVR already buffed killers in the same patch and nerfed the distance survivors get when they are hit. So it's a triple buff in chases for killers : - faster swipe - faster kicking - survivors getting less distance; and THEN BHVR still touched the gens.
Its a bit too much. ESpecially Considering how Pain Res combines so well with DMS, considering Jolt has no cooldown anymore, considering Sadako has 2 good gen slowdown perks aswell. Pain Res is much better than Pop ever was, less effort required. Just put them in the "correct" hook...Yeah sometimes you won't make it to a Scourge hook but you're still getting high value of a simple JUST EQUIP IT Perk...
I understand kill rates were low and it demanded changes, it's obvious they were for majority of players, majority of players aren't Streamers who play the game for 8+ hours a day, BUT BHVR made the mistake of changing too manny things and we don't know how impactfull every single of them are on their own, we only know the results of when they are all combined.
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I never even said I hate or despite them so much. I just agreed that they are boring. Calm down 😅
this game is also not sitting in one spot the whole time doing nothing simulator as well.
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The game is balanced. Where did you get this unbalanced game thing from? Did you even boot up the game after the update?
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The game has never been Balanced and never will be. A 4v1 ratio is simply too much. If we had a bare bones Mode you'd understand that killer needs Perks, unless you're Nurse, because Nurse ignores Map Design for the most part, something no other killer can do.
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You can't propose a change to generator completion without thinking about the skills and mechanics (skill test) related to it.
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Then just bring it back down to 80 seconds. Change other things if you want, perks and whatever, but god why drag out the most tedious part of the game?
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You can't just suggest adding perks to counter a flaw to the base game. That is called a game design issue.
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Exactly. The reasons are just saying gens are boring, in essence. Even if you breakdown why detail by detail, they're still just saying gens are boring.
Would I like to see the data? Sure. Are we entitled to the data? No. Are they under any obligation to show it to use before making these decisions? No.
They don't owe us anything.
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Yea who doesn’t love holding a button for more than a minute then occasionally pressing another button so you don’t have to hold said button for longer. Woo exciting gameplay doing absolutely nothing for more than a minute straight. That’s what I paid $60 + DLC for
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Never thought I'd see dead by daylight compared to Among Us, but here we are.
I'm so so glad this game doesn't have voice chat.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx-0f_ymFuU
5 gens in less than 4 minutes at high MMR while immediately chased by a oni with lethal.
Making the gen shorter again will result in even less time to chase and again in builds with total slowdown.
But now pop is garbage and ruin is meh.
"(To the best of my knowledge) there is no publicly available data which can confirm or deny the fact that the game was ever survivor-sided to begin with. Survivors are now required to do extra time of the most boring part of the game for a reason that has never been publicly displayed through survivor vs. killer statistics."
BHVR said that killers weren't killing enought and they expect an average of 2 kills per match
"A ten second increase with the latest update is not a trivial difference. Most perks have effects that last for just a few seconds and make a drastic difference to the game."
It is a very major difference instead. On 5 gens it is 50 seconds more, like a no way out.
50 seconds you cannot hide and you have to work, differently from NWO.
10 seconds more per gen means you can manage to stop many gen before completed unless there is Prove thyself.
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Point 6: Skill checks were SUPPOSED to have a failure chance, which would organically increase the time it takes to do generators, effectively making them take longer than the 80 seconds they used to be. However, skill checks are a joke if you've played for any length of time, so gens fly and survivors have no challenge on their entire non-killer half of the game.
Point 7: Survivors had wildly over-ranked their MMR due to the State of the Game, and any time there is anything that makes the other side better, even by a little bit, they suddenly encounter a larger-than-normal number of losses, which makes them believe that there is some terrible game failure, not just that they're playing out of their league and need to down-rank to get balanced games again.
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Right, and "in essence" if my grandmother had wheels she would have been a bike.
Ok, but don't act as if "finally the game is balanced" when you have no way of proving me that it was ever unbalanced before or that it is more balanced now. The burden of proof is on you.
And if people really actually want one side or the other to "stop whining" about changes being made, the fastest way to do that is to demand the data be released. It would be a bit hard for people to be "whining" if they could see objectively that yes, the game is actually more fair now.
I'm saying outright that I simply don't believe it that the game was a) ever survivor-sided, b) is more balanced now. The people in this forum could very easily be a vocal minority. You could argue that if this is what the vocal people want, then sure, make the game that way, since it will increase net happiness, but then you have absolutely no right to claim it on the grounds of statistics.
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I don't think you're hearing me. Even if a killer misses out, they have still done stuff. They have chased, looked around. If a survivor is on a generator, they do nothing but tedious skill checks. This does not a fun game make.
If you want balance, why can't you change other things that don't involve survivors doing tedious work? Why are you so intent on making people suffer watching a progression bar crawl upward for a minute and a half?
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What you're saying is there's an arms race between survivor skill and killer skill. Fair enough, but you haven't given an explanation for why that should result in the most tedious part of the game being extended? Why not make other changes that don't induce game boredom??
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Just to say, Steam Charts has the average playerbase being the lowest its been in about 2 years. Everything, even 3 weeks on, is saying their "major shake up" patch was for the worse, not for the better.
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This is false.
The current playerbase is lower than june but higher than may.
Because it is not that easy.
In order to give survivor something to do you must completely change the game structure.
Because if you give them something to do with the current game rules they simply can ignore it.
Like totems and boons. Survs can simply ignore them and rush gens. That is exactly what happens and has happened before.
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I don't understand what you're saying because the entire game structure already was changed in a way that made generators longer. And it bears repeating: this extends and amplifies the most tedious part of the entire game.
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No. The game from the survivor perspective is:
Do 5 gens, open the gates, escape.
Simple as that, between a surv and the victory there are 5 gens and the gates, these are the mandatory tasks.
Not booning, not cleansing, not opening chests, not healing, not saving from hooks, these things may help but it depends.
Then, are the surv too quick?
SCENARIO 1
Ok, then you can make gen longer and / or the exit gate longer.
Simple and direct, make the game ALWAYS last longer.
SCENARIO 2
Alternatives are make healing longer and/or more difficult or unhooking longer or more difficult. More or less in the current game balance heal and unhook is something you always do. If a killer cannot wound and down and hook once he is still going to lose.
But this may be frustrating, may enhance the number of selfish players, if unhooking takes 20 seconds who is going to do that? You are going to finish the gen and every killer will become lethal as bubba while camping.
If healing requires 2 minutes noone is gonna heal ever, everyone is going to play the perks that allow to play wounded.
This is hard to balance and it is going to change the equilibrium of the game a lot.
SCENARIO 3
Add another task to the ones required in order to complete the game, like when you have the reverse bear trap on the head and you must remove them before escaping.
For example before repairing a gen you first must find the new parts in the chests and take them to the gen you want to repair to make the reparation possible.
THIS IS A HUGE CHANGE and completely changes the game structure and it is almost impossible to balance!
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Your entire argument here relies on 'balance' when you have no publicly available data to support that a) the game was unbalanced to begin with, or b) that the game has become more balanced as a result of increased generator length. You want me to just take the devs word for it? I don't think so.
My argument acknowledges that we don't know anything about balance but asks that we don't intentionally extend the most tedious part of the game. Make other changes instead. The three scenarios you've posited here don't say anything. You don't have any data to back up your argument, only anecdotes. It is objectively true that repairing generators is the most tedious part of the game, and I seriously challenge you to give me another more tedious example. Don't make the game more boring
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"Your entire argument here relies on 'balance' when you have no publicly available data to support that a) the game was unbalanced to begin with, or b) that the game has become more balanced as a result of increased generator length. You want me to just take the devs word for it? I don't think so."
Ok. Give me better data that the game now is more unbalanced. Give me better numbers than the ones provided by devs. More relaiable informations....
"My argument acknowledges that we don't know anything about balance but asks that we don't intentionally extend the most tedious part of the game. Make other changes instead."
Noone is arguing doing gens may be boring, but as i said, the "other changes are more dangerous for the balance of the game.
"It is objectively true that repairing generators is the most tedious part of the game, and I seriously challenge you to give me another more tedious example."
Making the unhook time longer. Do you know what is more boring than doing gens? Being hooked.
With unhook time longer unhooking while camped will be impossible and therefore every killer is going to camp.
Then you must endure on the hook to give time to your mates.
This is more boring than doing gens.
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One other thing, yes it is obviously true that doing generators is the main objective, not booning, cleansing, opening chests etc. But can't you see that obviously, doing all of those things are more fun than sitting and watching a progression bar for a minute and a half?
You need to go and find totems and chest like a little hunt. Healing has a sense of interaction and you can enjoy having helped another survivor. Healing yourself isn't fun, but at least it keeps you in the game and prevents the unfun act of being hooked.
Can you seriously not acknowledge the problem in emphasising the importance of doing generators when they are obviously the least fun thing to do in the game? And your answer to everything is to make this least fun part even longer??
WHY GOD WHY just please tell me I don't understand
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You don't seem to grasp the fact that this update was a massive change. Generators have never taken this long to complete. The burden of proof is on you to explain why this is a good idea, not on me.
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Sorry to cross post and add another comment, but I also have to respond: You ask me to show data to support my argument. If you would read what I wrote, I already said that I don't rely on that data to make my argument. My argument rests on the fact that doing generators is not fun, and is in fact tedious.
Arguing for the sake of 'balance' just seems to be a red herring to me. No one can support that argument either way, and the only thing we can do is demand the devs release that information. The only reason they would have to withhold that information would have to do with financial incentive.
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Man there must be some kind of misunderstanding and language barrier.
Maybe it is better if i repeat myself.
I said:
- 1) BHVR said that their number were proving killers weren't killing enough
- 2) 10 seconds more on a gen it is not trivial, it is a good enhancement
- 3) A game can still end in 4 minutes if the team is well cohordinated even 90 seconds gen
- 4) Making the gens last longer is the simplest and more direct solution
- 5) There is no doubt that, making the gens last longer make the game last longer.
- 6) Before 6.1.0 the games were too quick
These are the things i said.
You say that doing gens is boring. Well, ok, still we need to make the game longer than before the 6.1.0 and i doubt there is a simpler, more direct solution than making the gens 90 seconds.
BUT if you have a solution you can share it.
You cannot ask to remove it only because you are "bored" without giving an alternative. Guess what. Killers are bored to see the exit opened after 4 minutes.
I hope now i was able to explain myself.
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No, it is not reasonable to expect that extending game time is a good thing when this demands the majority of players do an increased duration of tedious tasks. I really don't see how you can expect that is a good argument.
You also seem to be confusing 'frustrating' with 'boring'. Sure, a killer might be frustrated from losing a match. Fair enough. This isn't the same as making them bored through needing to accomplish tedious tasks. I would not wish that on a killer even if it meant I won more games as a survivor, and if you were reasonable you should not wish the reverse, either.
Yes, BHVR said that, but instead of doing the reasonable thing and just showing the statistics, they withhold them and let the community bicker amongst themselves. The only reason I can see for withholding that information is that there is a financial incentive behind doing so.
And yes, I am perfectly entitled to ask to remove the extra ten seconds of gen speed if it means I am bored. This is a game. Games are meant to be fun.
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Man, if you not believe then you would have not believed tham even with the statistics telling they made the numbers up.
Instead of ask the game being reverted back use prove thyself.
That is wat killers did for 6 years, bring always 2-3 perks to make gen longer.
Now you can easily bring one if you are pissed off.
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"Man, if you not believe then you would have not believed tham even with the statistics telling they made the numbers up." Sorry but this is incoherent and I really don't understand what you mean here.
You shouldn't need to rely on perks in order to make the base game exciting and fun to play. How many hours does it take to prestige a Dwight? Your solution is to ask new players to play the game something like 10 hours before they can even have a chance at a mildly interesting game? Give me a break.
Nothing justifies adding 10 seconds to an already GRUELLING long progression bar and I can't for the life of me understand what is going on in your head to think this is normal
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"You shouldn't need to rely on perks in order to make the base game exciting and fun to play."
This is PRECISELY the reason perks exist. So a player can use them to customize the experience.
You should not just in case all the players use the same perks.
Like DS, BT, DH and Ruin/Pop/BBQ. But if you are pissed of flashlights this is the reason lightborne exist.
Or do you think that a killer can come here and ask the removal of flashlight because he is frustrated and he do not want to equip lightborn nor learn how to play around them?
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Exactly, to CUSTOMISE the experience! There is nothing custom about being REQUIRED to do something! Are you seriously thick in the head???
Perk slots don't exist so that you can insert the obligatory perk in there that means you can have a slightly less unenjoyable game (Prove Thyself, as per your suggestion). Perk slots exist so that you can mix and match your play style, not so that you have to use one specific perk.
When flashlight blinding lasts for 90 seconds instead of just 1 second, then you can come back here and make that argument. Otherwise what you are saying is so utterly facile and ridiculous it's making me think you are just a sore loser as killer who can't cope so badly that you want to bring down the entire game and force people to do boring tasks.
And for the love of god stop mixing up 'frustration' with 'boredom'. It is frustrating to get blinded by a flashlight. It is BORING to do generators. LEARN THE DIFFERENCE?!?!
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I reply only the first sentence because i do not want to get involved again in a discussion that has no reason to continue further
"Exactly, to CUSTOMISE the experience! There is nothing custom about being REQUIRED to do something! Are you seriously thick in the head???"
YOU ARE NOT REQUIRED
- You can play the boring part. Like a killer that hates flashlights but still take the risk, maybe facing the wall.
- You can find a way to avoid it. Like a killer player that only plays doctor and shock before picking up to not get flashed. Or a killer that focus on slug. Or play pig or onryo or pyramid to be able to not pick up survs.
- You can equip a perk or an object or whatever to skip it. Like a killer that equips franklyn or lightborne.
Or sure you can come here and say: i do not like this, it is "boring", "frustrating", "unfair", whatever, please remove it because i do not want to learn how to play around it neither i want to equip one perk even thou making the way i propose will force all the players to equip 2-3 slowdown perks.
This is the situation. You not like it? Well this is till the situation. Dot.
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Well I AM required to install a perk if i want less generator time because of this stupid god damned update! That should NOT be the case!
And you have not in any way shape or form acknowledged the fact that even when the killer loses, he is DOING something!? Generators involve sitting in the same place doing NOTHING!? That is the DEFINITION of boring!
Other changes should be made that do not require increasing the tedious aspects of the game! And I have every god damned right to complain about it. I loved this game and spent money on it now it is ruined. If you don't like me complaining then don't read or don't respond to what I write, but I'm not going to shut up about this because it is downright disgusting!!!
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Something that is boring for you may not be boring for others and viceversa.
And maybe the main issue for another player it is not the boring parts, maybe for him it is the unfair parts or the frustragint parts, or the unbalanced parts.
JUST MAYBE!
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