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Good job, BHVR, you completely obliterated Thanatophobia
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Two things to keep in mind about the new version of Thana. The gen speed isn't the only slowdown the perk is based around, but also healing time. Taking one person off a gen for 16 seconds to heal is time that gen doesn't progress at all. And that assumes there's already a boon/medkit at hand. Booning or finding a second survivor or med kit takes even more time on top of that.
Second is that the current Thana introduces a game design choice that encourages the killer not to tunnel one player out as fast as possible. As soon as someone dies, you lose out on the maximum strength of the perk. I think this is a healthy design decision for the game.
Alternately, having the penalty be linear, like 5.5% per or in your example a flat number of seconds, is far less noticeable between 3 and 4 survivors remaining. But literally everything in the game is 25% slower once one person is dead. So tunneling one survivor an out and then keeping the remaining three injured alone takes one perk slot for effectively 40% slowdown.
The new version is much healthier overall. Thana only works of it's a niche perk. If everyone runs (the old version of) it, then they effectively made gens take 115 seconds base kit, which is what we saw for two weeks. At that point, either Thana gets nerfed, or base gen speeds get reduced. Even for killers, this is the better option.
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Overzealous is an 8% if you cleanse a totem. What about make the perk increase gen speed to 20% if you cleanse 2 totems? Same as you want to thanatophobia
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Yes they killed the perk on all killers but Legion and Plague, when they should have done the opposite. Would even have been better to deactivate the perk whenever 4 survivors are injured instead rather than the change they made.
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You talk like 115 sec is over huge,but it's only when 1 surv is on it. And usually, you are 2 or three on one gen.
The ones who absolutely need time to play are killers, not survs, this is why we use slow gen perks, for having time to do our job, at least enough to not be utterly humiliated vs rush gens comps.
You talk about fun, so, i will talk about it too, as a main killer, being bullied by survs in so many ways is not fun you know ? When you got a stupid hard game, you got like even or less than 3 hooks, it's not fun you know ? You easily forgot that goods survs can buy a ton of time in chase, and the time you finally got one, 3 gens are done.
So, be polite, don't talk like 115sec is horrible, you are just whining. And don't forget one of the basic plan with the big uptdate was to slow the gens and balance the chases to give more time to killers to play. And in this way, i can clearly tell the difference before/after, the game is finaly funny/funnier for killers at high mmr. But damn, waiting so much years for that...
Circle of healing is still a problem tho.
Anyway, for me, the huge nerf of thana is just a result of surv whine, not more. If the numbers were too high, just nerf a little, 5.5 is too much ? go 4. end of story.
As someone who don't use totems because totems are ######### who got destroyed too fast, sawing your perks being destroyed is stupid, yay, i lost 3 perks in less than 1min, so fun...all of this to say thana is cool when you don't use totems, but now, it's pure garbage.
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Kinda funny how they went from buffing an already good perk that nobody asked buffs for to suddenly destroying it all in the mere span of 2 weeks. BHVR game designers truly have no idea what they're doing.
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Just the main idea of getting reworded when doing a goal is a great way a perk could become strong. Its all about the main idea.
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Killers were already camping hard even with the Thana buff
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I didn't quite understand everything in your post. The second point is something really good to know, and I hadn't thought about that, so thanks. The first though...I don't really understand, healing happens at anytime, no? It's not something that comes with thana, and thana actually doesn't affect those speeds either, so...it feels like a constant for most situations, I would expect anyway.
Also I don't really understand the numbers between it being 25% slower? 90+9.45s isn't 25%. I also don't understand the 40% either.
I am completely not arguing for 115s (base kit? you mean after four worked for hits, no?), but current is 108s for 4, and 95.4s for 3. In comparison the 3.5% is 102.6s for 4, 99.45s for 3, etc.
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Oh no! You still got camping, tunneling and slugging basekit.
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The thana need will definitely sooth the survivors who keep DCing against legion and plague right?
Right?
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I saw so much survivors ragequit for little to no reasons or just because they wanted to bully you and they got counter bullied, it's not an argument for me.
There is a bias here, because it's like survs have the right to act the worst possible against a killer, but if the reverse happen and give surv a good challenge, it's the end of the world...
Also, about the camping stuff, it's a strategy, some abuse it, but it can be a strategy, at end game for sample, it's the only valid strategy but survs complain anyway.
Like tunneling, it can be a strategy too, when you got wrecked, gens are done too fast, it can be useful to do a tunnel or a camp, to force survs taking risks at protecting others, it give you a good breath to catch the time you couldn't have before and it can give you some hooks. Basically a strat to rebalance the trial you are in.
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They nerfed Thana mostly because of Legion and Plague.
And the only killers you still get value out of Thana are... Legion and Plague. GJ, BHVR.
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True, healing is always an option, but Thana encourages survivors to prioritize healing. There are some times where it's better to stay injured, and perks that only work while you're injured (Resilience and DH). Even the psychological idea of seeing a "red slow" gen bar will cause some people to spend 16 seconds healing themselves to save maybe 10 seconds added by that Thana stack on a generator.
The 25% slower isn't an actual "slowdown," but an effect of tunneling. If one survivor dies, then the survivor team only has 3 players to progress the game instead of 4.
Put another way, let's say you have three injured survivors and one is tunneled out immediately. With the 6.1.0 Thana,
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I think the end of your post was cut off, but thanks for explaining the 25%. I do agree one person being quickly killed is quite a crippling blow to a team, probably over and above the 25% idea, simply because you can't be in four different places at once, so the killer has less to track making it much more dangerous. Though I guess that's a discussion for another place.
I will say, I usually heal almost immediately and heal anyone in my vicinity, if I can, and...tbh the red slow bar shows up so dang often in game, I'm kind of inured to it now. It doesn't even show a yellow bar any more while two people are on it, which I can't say I like very much.
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Congratulations, you stated the entire point of this thread while missing it completely. We’re “crying” about the nerf precisely because of that reason: it was only really good on two killers, even pre-nerf. I never wanted the previous buff it got in the first place - now, because of that and the survivors subsequent crying about it, it has been nerfed to uselessness on all but two of the killers, and even on those two just one (ONE) survivor needs to heal and you’re back down to a paltry 6% debuff (something very easily done against Plague with the cleansing), making it almost not work a perk slot.
I also love survivor mains are coming in here calling calling killer mains hypocrites for telling survivors to adapt and “git gud” before, ignoring the fact that they themselves are hypocrites for doing the exact same thing now…
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No idea where you’re getting that 10s added. A single stack is worth less than 2s, and four is worth more than 10 - which may sound like it’s feeding into your argument, except it’s not. Do you know how hard it is to keep all four survivors injured? And your argument about the slowdown that naturally occurs when stopping to heal (which I will admit, is an excellent point that should be taken into consideration) fails to take into consideration that the killer also needs to take time to run around and injure everyone. If they stop doing that to down and hook a survivor instead, that’s plenty of time for other injured survivors to heal up…or the survivors can just eat that 1.8 – 5.4 second slowdown from the new Thana. The slowdown that of course ignores all other perks, including survivor perks and items, not to mention survivors simply working together on gens.
The reality is, Thana didn’t do as much as people like to think it did, and if it hadn’t gotten a buff, I wouldn’t at all be surprised if people had ignored it as much as before the update. Before this nerf, you needed to keep as many survivors as you could injured at all times to get the most bang for your buck out of it, but at least you got something for an injury. Now you need to keep ALL survivors injured at all times to even make it worth the slot. Three injuries now (quite difficult on most killers) grants only 1% more than a single injury before, 4% less than two injuries before. It is a massive nerf to Thana, and it feels like a slap in the face after the Devs were the ones who buffed it in the first place despite the fact nobody was asking for it.
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Of course they are hypocrites, they are 4times more than us, so they are the money of BHVR, it's sad, but it's a fact than they are the littles favorites of BHVR. The last big patch was absolutely incredible and unexpected in this point of view, nerfing survs and buffing killers, a somewhat balance.
I said somewhat for a tons of reason i will not mention here, but can we talk about Prove Thyself ? and the over powerful healing boon ? PT was already strong before, but now, he is over taken, this totaly counter the increased time for gen, they didn't even nerfed this abused perk, cut it by half at least for god sake ! But hey dare to wreck thana uh ? Hypocrites, nerfing survs and buffing killers (in a balance way) is SO reverse of thers usuals that they already attack us again, survs are they little precious money.
We, killers, are always the ones who are going to suffer, because if the game is starting to be a survival game for survs, and not a bully the killer game, they will whine till they got what they want, and because we live in a victimizing society, it work...
I have an impression that the queues for killers are longer since the patch, i wonder if some survivors deserted the game ? It will explain the nerf of thana a way more than mere numbers (who are, in this case, stupid because of PT and boon)
If it's the case, and knowing BHVR prefers survs in an obvious way, it will explain everything about this hyperfast nerf.
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I just found this forum post, in 2023 after playing plauge with the perk. literally pressed about it rn.
I just played as The plauge, I used thantophobia, face the darkness, discordance(genius perk to use on her, considering infecting as much ppl as possible is ideal, and infecting anything ppl are focused on)
and corrupt intervention.
(I was also using both "objects infected longer" addons.
Literally ALL ROUND the survivors didn't cure themselves, and were injured all round from being infected.
Any discordance notifications (which were VERY few in number in the round) I would deal with swiftly, get all survivors off the gens even without discordance notifs, etc.
Meanwhile with all that AND thantophobia with all survivors injured all round, it literally felt like they got the gens done at the same exact speed as without it.
I'm honestly just in awe about how ######### the perk is.
Like if that's with the plague, who can get all survivors injured at once many times, surely, imagine trying to use the perk on any other killer. (don't, its garbage, unless used on oni with nurses calling and hemorrhage maybe)
All round, apparently a 12% penalty to repairs, yet they singlehandedly got gens done alone all injured and while I was patroling all gens. makes no sense.
How can a perk be so garbage and broken?? Clearly 12% penalty isn't enough, cause it literally didn't feel different from regular gen repair speed AT ALL. The best it could maybe do is create the idea for some players that its necessary to heal up before repairing, slowing them more, but clearly these players were experienced enough to realise it literally doesn't matter, the perk is useless.
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Thana should've been deleted and reworked to completely new perk, I can't believe anyone who thought it DO work on current state.
It's literally a waste of slot.
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Not reworked, just brought back to how it used be. Nobody ever asked for a buff to this perk (wouldn't surprise me if BHVR wanted to kill the perk from the get-go but needed a pretext...).
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The perk was totally fine before, even on plague and legion. Now it’s trash for everyone.
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I don’t know why this thread was necrobumped, but I’m just gonna express my opinion: This was literally one of the stupidest nerfs they’ve ever done, even dumber than the Eruption nerf since that one deserved a nerf, while Thana didn’t. Perk was insanely overrated and overused after its buff, and instead of ignoring the complaints and just letting the hype settle down on its own, they gave in and completely ruined it for everyone, including the only two killers it was good on. Even if you really want to argue that a nerf was necessary, I don’t understand why they couldn’t have just lowered the numbers to 4% instead of this crap they call a perk. Completely unplayable post nerf, and it’s a damn shame. I’d love if they could revert this, but survivor mains would never allow that.
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