Can someone explain to me why hooks can get permanently destroyed?
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And then they go to the same spot again since they know you can't hook them there...
Happens more times than I would like.
If you don't want to get bleed out, don't wiggle out. The killer has control over the situation so it makes sense to them to chose the option with the least amount of risk to get their rewards. You can make a choice between going through things on the hard way or the easy way.
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If they go back to the spot I understand you but most of the time the killer dont even try one time..
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Its funny that some killers rather let someone bled out before even trying to hook on another location.
Its a good game mechanic, and it should rather engage killers to play better.
Or just add 2 gens more ingame so survivors cant 3 gen anymore and you can have your hook respawns, no problem.
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Because maybe they know they can't make it to a hook, therefore it makes sense to let them bleed out since it is the most risk-free course of action?
Also, 3 gens can be countered by brute force and good coordination. Keep yourself and your team healthy and go do a gen to break the setup, if the killer hits you, use your speed boost to get to the other side of the map. If the killer commits to you, then waste as much time as you can and let your teammates finish the gen, if the killer doesn't decide to chase you, then heal, rinse and repeat. Since the killer's base regression is 1/4 of the survivor's repair speed, survivors win the dispute of regression vs repairing. It may take some time to break a 3 gen, but ultimately competent survivors win that dispute.
If the killer committed to the 3 gen from the get-go, then he pretty much gave up on the other 4 gens, so you should brute force only one gen which is completely manageable.
Hook dead zones aren't counterable nor avoidable on some maps, due to bad hook spawns. If a hook is destroyed permanently and the survivor keeps going to that same spot, your only option is to bleed them out and you can't brute force it since it all depends on them. As I said, it is just a time-wasting mechanic.
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Absolutely not. Killers should not be expected or shamed into making poor game decisions, when the survivors are actively trying to force the killer into these situations.
Toxic behavior is survivors that wiggle when they know there aren't any hooks in the area, and then complain if the killer drops them and lets them bleed out.
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4 generators left, 3 Survivors dead
How dare you wiggle when I can't make it to a hook you get to bleed out!!!!!
This is your fault!!!!
Post edited by Evokexsand on1 -
Bruh, you are going to die either way, the killer has already won, it is literally up to you to decide if you want the fast way or the slow way. You don't have to be smart to realize that.
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Sorry are 3.75/4 average kill rates not high enough for you post update? Do survivors get a 0.00001% chance they'll get downed in a hook dead space lmao these entitled killer mains
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I'm gunna be honest I just don't care about this, if the survivor struggles out hurray for them like, I don't need to be sweating my mind out for the 4k or anything.
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Not even to mention how they still haven't changed the color of Call of Brine and Eruption so it doesn't override Surveillance and Discordance. Killers still need a lot of QoL changes tbh.
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You're not listening, to what I'm saying or to what you're saying. Killers don't just get a 3-gen. Even if the killer plans one from the very beginning of the game, things almost always go wrong like one of the gens getting done or not enough pallets there getting broken, even though they tried to prevent those things from happening. Believe me, I've tried it.
Managing hooks is completely different from pallets. Hooks are not a resource, but they're an objective. If you don't have access to your objective, you can't end the game in the intended way, and instead have to resort to having everyone bleed out, in which case perks like Unbreakable, Soul Guard, and even No Mither make it impossible to win in that way. Survivors, even when 3-genned and pallet dead zoned, are not incapable of winning the way they're supposed to: doing gens to power the exits. But on top of that, they can also just let each other die and wait for hatch, which is also not how they're supposed to win, even though the devs disagree. Having bad gens doesn't mean you can't do them, but having no hooks around means you can't hook anybody.
The killer is not always at fault for anything that happens in the game.
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I guarantee you the devs did not create DBD wanting killers to manage where exactly they hook people; they were to simply do it. They allowed all hooks being destroyed permanently, but surely we can chalk that up to an oversight. Killers manage hooks by keep track of how many times they've hooked each person, and if they have any scourge hooks. Otherwise, it's overcomplicating the role to the point of hilarity for no real reason at all. It's like if survivors could only work on 1 or 2 of the last 3 gens because they did too many in one area earlier in the game.
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Well obviously hooks are a resource or we wouldnt be having this discussion.
I was playing several matches tonight and there were a few times i didnt go for the closest hook because i didnt wanna create a deadzone. The hooks you lose due to sacrifices are the ones you choose outside of someone suiciding on first hook, and even then you have to realize that anytime you hook you're risking losing that hook.
If your not okay with losing a hook you may need to slug or go for one slightly farther away, its something you have to build into your game mentality just like as a survivor with gens i usually dont do the first gen i see i go central i try to get a sense of the map and try to identify a 3 gen early.
I agree that killers are not always at fault with everything but as I have stated before hook deadzones are 100% the killers fault just like 3gens are 100% the survivors fault. Suggesting any other blame scheme is 100% hypocritical.
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So I spent 20-60 seconds to down 1 survivor, only to slug them and let them get picked up, because I might lose a hook later? C'mon man. I'm done with this.
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It's trying to shoehorn in another layer of skill where there's no need for it. The killer should not have that many decisions to make after downing somebody and picking them up. They should just hook someone and continue playing. Survivors do not get punished for doing too many gens near an exit gate by having only 1 get powered in endgame.
Making the killer guard 5 gens at the end is absolutely bonkers. Players are only human.
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Resourcemanagement is an elemental part of this game. This also includes hooks.
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I'd say, sure make it so death hooks respawn, but at the same time add 2 more gens to the game. If killers don't have to properly manage their game, neither should survivors.
As a killer, I am always aware of my hooks because I don't want to create a dead zone. In most maps even the one you listed you can always carry a survivor to at least 2 hooks. A close one and a further away one. If you're playing killer you should always aim to carry a survivor to a hook in the middle of the map. You never know if they are going to die on it. It's best to save those edge hooks for the end of the game. Basically, get better map awareness.
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The difference is that the punishment for those things are completely different. If you don't manage your 3 gen you may lose the game, but if you create a hook dead zone as killer you won't lose the game, you will simply have to leave the survivor to bleed out since you have nowhere to hook. It is not like you will lose the game because of a dead zone, on the contrary, it is most likely that you have already won before it even becomes a factor. Therefore, this isn't a game-changing mechanic, it is just an inconvenience, almost an anti-QoL change, because all it implies is that you are going to have to wait 4 minutes waiting for that survivor to die.
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Its kinda like survivors '3 gen'ing' themselves.
There is some forethought in how you finish gens to avoid a serious disadvantage just as you have to think a lil with hooks.
Its good survivor counter play to try to run into areas where there are dead hooks making it harder for the killer to hook them.
It pays sometimes to think about where you are chasing survivors and where you might hook them prior to doing so.
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The only time youd be waiting for the survivor to die is the endgame, because otherwise they would get picked up. And you have already closed hatch or you still have something you could be doing.
So in this scenario the worst thing that happens is they wiggle out you chase them around and the game ends in 2 minutes. If they go for a door you can defend it and get them in an area with a hook, or if they stay in a deadzone just keep them there and dont down them so the timer goes faster. I still dont see the problem here.
As to your respawning hooks as long as the same thing happens with pallets im fine with it. If your not ok with that then you just have to manage your resources better.
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Just try one time, its a waste of time for everyone.
I play killer too
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So situations like this cannot happen: where he literally camped both the hooks then would have been able to hook the Nea who tried to save me instantly on my hook and then continue to camp.
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Except for the fact you just can pay attention to where you are hooking someone and prevent your own dead zone. You created it, just in the same way survivors create 3 gens.
Nothing in this game is an exact comparison, but things are close... these comparisons are close.
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Why should survivors get breathing room if they three gen themselves?
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I'm just guessing what their reasoning is. Maybe they felt situations like the one I described are too hard to come back from, who knows? 🤷♂️
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I don't...really understand what's going on in this thread.
Why do hooks break permanently on sacrifice? To make things harder for the killer.
Why do downed survivors move to a place where there are no hooks? To give them a chance to wiggle out when you pick them up.
The only real question here is why aren't you picking them up? Because you're guaranteed a kill (at least if other survivors can't get to them) through bleed out. Which actually is a discussion for whether people shouldn't bleed out but recover, lol.
This mechanic is literally there to give survivors chances, and it's worked. It doesn't often come into play, but in those rare times it does, it's made a difference. If it's coming into play in your games often, pick up the survivor and see what happens. You never know, you might get another three minutes of actual gameplay.
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Dude, you haven't even read what I said. The point is not about this being avoidable (which depending on the map it isn't but that is beside the point), it is about it being an inconvenience that isn't even about gameplay. The only thing it does is incentivize the killers to let the survivor bleed out, which is a huge waste of time for both sides. I am really not giving a survivor another second chance (because they already have too many), if you want to wiggle out when the game is already over and there are no hooks around then you are being petty since, unless the killer is stupid, you know that you will be just left to bleed out wasting 4 minutes of your time and 4 minutes of the killer's time just because you don't want to accept that you lost the game. It is simply annoying and gives a way to express petty behavior from the survivors.
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First off it is always avoidable. Secondly you're making the choice to bleed them out and waste your own time you got options.
A. Pick them up and try to hook them.
1. You hook them, game over.
2. They wiggle out and stay in the deadzone, chase them around keep them contained the worst case your done in 2 min.
3. They wiggle out and go for a door or some other play you get them outside the deadzone, hook them, game over.
B. Tab out watch a video or some other thing to amuse yourself so your not wasting time.
Problem solved.
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Why should a killer get a free hook after hooking 2-3 survivors in the same area, wasting all of the hooks? Same thing. You have the ability to pick up a survivor and carry them to nearby hooks. If you hooked 3 people in the same AREA to the point that there is NO hooks, then either they magically got caught in the EXACT same area or you stayed close enough to a hooked survivor to down another survivor and got another hook for it in a snowball. Why should you be rewarded for not leaving the area? The amount of hooks on the maps is almost a guarantee that no one will wiggle off naturally, sometimes not even with 1 protection hit either. Hooks that are used for a sacrifice need to stay gone. You chose that hook, same as a survivor chose the gens that they do. You have caused yourself an issue near the end, that's on you. (edit: Added "have" to fix the final sentence)
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Wait, wait, wait. If survivors' 3-gen themselves, its fine and its on them for making that mistake but if a KILLER breaks 2-3 hooks in an area, making it impossible to hook a survivor then its not fair and needs to be changed? What kind of crap is that? You can choose where to hook. Got perks for that, too. Choose better hook options and don't camp. Survivors' don't owe you a free hook, just the same as killers' don't owe you a free hatch just because you did most of the work in the match for your team.
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There is usually at least 2 hooks in close proximity to each other at all times in almost every map. If you burn both of those hooks and catch the 3rd person and can't hook them in that area then just go and find the 4th person to down and hook them instead. I'm just not seeing the real issue here. I'm agreeing with you. Starting to think the ones wanting this change camp a lot or something because I've only had this happen like twice in almost 6 years of playing this game and it happened when you could perma-break hooks. It was awful. Hooks are a resource that you must manage so you don't penalize yourself later on. You made really great points, also.
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You're missing my point. If you as the killer create a dead zone that is on you, just the same way survivors creating a 3 gen is on them. If you just hook people at the closest hook and take ZERO care to pay attention to your hooks, you created that dead zone, not the survivors.
When you hook people, take a second to spin around and look at your hooks. If you notice that your going to create a deadzone hooking someone on the closest hook, take them to the second hook... If you can't make it (white the exception of hook offerings and maybe boil over) you should always be able to make it to 2 even sometimes 3 hooks on certain maps.
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I agree with you. And as sarcastically as I can muster via text,
I think he just wants to make sure that once the killer completes their objective and sacrifices a survivor, they can complete their next objective using the same map resource.
So I'm completely certain he will have zero issues allowing survivors to complete the same generator five times in a row to power the exit gates.
Same energy.
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I'll be honest. I am in the camp that hooks should not remain broken forever. My reasoning for this lies behind a perk change.
In version 1.9.0 of Dead by Daylight, a perk was added with the SAW chapter called "Hangman's Trick". All the perk did was counter Saboteur/Sabotage builds by causing broken hooks to respawn after 30/20/10 seconds. In older versions of DBD Trapper's Beartraps could be broken, so this perk received a buff that made Trapper's trap repair themselves 60 seconds faster in addition to hooks regenerating.
If this perk still functioned like this I would be fine with hooks breaking by default. If you had a particular issue with hooks breaking, you could use the perk, otherwise, get good.
However, in 3.6.0 the perk was reworked so that instead of countering sabotage via hook regeneration, it shifted into prevention via information. In this state, and it's current state, while carrying survivors you will see the auras of survivors near hooks (2/4/6 meters respectively.)
The Sabotage mechanic has gone through a lot of changes over the years, but with the introduction of Scourge Hooks, the QoL change to Sabotage, as well as the upcoming killer perk "Awakened Awareness" I strongly believe that Hangman's Trick needs to be "reworked". My propositions are as follows:
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Hangman's Trick
Your ingenious modifications to hooks prevent tampering and permanent damage.
- Non-Scourge hooks destroyed by sabotage or sacrifice actions will automatically repair themselves after 30/20/10 seconds
- Gain a Loud Noise Notification when someone starts sabotaging the Hooks
or
Scourge Hook: Hangman's Trick
Your ingenious modifications to hooks prevent tampering and permanent damage.
- Scourge hooks destroyed by sabotage or sacrifice actions will automatically repair themselves after 30/20/10 seconds
- Gain a Loud Noise Notification when someone starts sabotaging the Hooks
My reasoning for the changes are simple, I cannot recall the last time I saw this perk used by a player that wasn't attempting the Adept Pig challenge. Furthermore, the changes are balanced around the new Scourge Hook mechanic this way. Either the perks only save Scourge Hooks, or they save only normal hooks. This will create a more impactful dynamic to the sabotage mechanic as whichever change is taken will affect how killers and survivors interact with Scourge Hook perks.
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First, it is not avoidable on certain maps with certain RNG. I had games in Midwich and Temple of Purgation where I had only one hook on a certain area of interest. Being an area of interest with gens being there, it makes sense to survivors going to the same place and if one of them dies, the place becomes a hook dead zone. To say that it is avoidable you have to make an argument that BHVR has excellent map design and know exactly where to place hooks all the time, which is not the case.
Also a 3 gen scenario and a hook dead zone are not comparable, as they have different counterplays and different results. The counterplay to 3 genning yourself is brute forcing one of the gens to break the setup, as for the counterplay to a hook deadzone is leaving the survivor to bleed out, since the amount they have to wiggle is always constant meaning that if they are on a certain spot they will always wiggle out no matter what you do. The result of a 3 gen is a gameplay advantage for the killer which may result in their win, while the result of a hook dead zone is letting a survivor stay on the ground for 4 minutes, which is just boring and punishes you in a completely inorganic way. By no means the two situations are comparable in any way.
Having no hooks in an area would basically be like if the last survivor did not die instantly on hook once all it's teammates are dead. It is basically the game saying "well, I know you won, but bear with this for some extra minutes for no particular reason". And I swear, if this was in the game, I know some people would even defend this by saying stuff like "if the last survivor has to go through 2 hook states while you do nothing, it is because you tunneled all his other teammates, therefore it is your fault that now you are going to have to wait for that survivor to slowly die on hook".
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I am going to counter you with experience, I have over 4k hours in this game. Have I ended up with a hook dead zone? Yeah for sure. But it's so rare it doesn't matter. If a survivor is purposely going to a dead zone, then yeah, just let them spend 4 minutes on the ground.
Basically, my point is, if a hook dead zone is so common to you that it's worth a complaint, you're screwing up as killer. Yeah sometimes it's the map's fault, sometimes its perks like boil over and breakout... But when 1 out of 1000 games has a hook dead zone, what's the point in complaining?
The reason I used the 3 gen is that it's the closest comparable instance to what a hook dead zone is. The game is asymmetrical, nothing is a direct comparison to the other side. However I can tell you this, I end up in a lot more 3 gens as survivors than I do hook dead zones as killers. So If I had to say one was the issue, it would be 3 gens.
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At one point there was the intended effect that hooks would respawn. Apparently they ditched that design and overall it is pretty stupid as an idea.
If you are really trying hard and you know you will die you can force where you will die. If a friend does the same you can make a dead zone with two people where no one else can be hooked in that area ever again.
This is unlikely to turn a match randomly often but it does happen over the course of hundreds of games. And if people are trying to make it happen it definitely has an influence on the game.
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So interesting that you phrased the fact that a hook spawn is not conviently in your location as wasting the killers time, when it is the killer who chooses to bleed a survivor out for four minutes. You can pick them up and risk them wiggling off and then try and catch them again. Or I dunno, you can go around breaking pallets and find hatch. But the survivor can't do anything but crawl around on the ground. But yeah, Its wasting the 'killers' time. I think its fine as is, same for a survivor using all pallets in one zone or having massive dead zones. The only change I wish the devs would make is instant bleed out if on the ground for more than 30 seconds as the last survivor alive, unless of course the survivor has a perk or boon that would help them get back up.
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Yeah, and I play since Nurse came out and for a long time this wasn't an issue since there was no Midwich nor RPD on the game, and survivors didn't have Flip Flop and Boil Over. I play on the South America server and I don't know how things are on your server but every 3 to 4 games there is a group of survivors with Boil Over abusing any hook dead zones they find. It is inefficient if their objective is to win? Absolutely. Is it boring as hell to wait for everyone to die on the floor? You bet. The point of complaining is that for me it has become a common issue in a way that is not healthy. One thing is complaining about game balance, another is complaining a QoL issue. Above it all, it wouldn't even be something hard to change, just give hooks 2 to 3 minutes before they respawn.
However, if your issue is camping, then it is much more reasonable to advocate for the basement to only have 1 hook and it be a 1 time use, since it is the perfect camping spot that exists on every match. And guess what? Killers who use Agitation and Iron Grasp normally use these perks to get to the basement and camp. Making a base game mechanic that destroys hooks permanently mainly punishes killers who don't camp, since the ones that go to the match with this intent already have a plan to play around the basement anyways.
It is not a "risk", it is a guarantee. The wiggle meter is a fixated value so given that you are away from a hook, you can pretty much know if the survivor is going to get out just by game experience. So no, the one that is wasting time on the end is the survivor, not the killer.
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So the survivor is wasting time because they went down where there is no hooks? Pick them up. Have them wiggle out. They may get away. Those are the odds of DBD. You're wasting your own time because you are 'scared' 1 survivor in a video game will get out.
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There is no "they may get away", they will get away unless they decide to not wiggle. And then, once they get away, they return to the same spot, rinse and repeat. Yeah, definitely the killer's fault there.
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If they return to the same spot then yes they are attempting to waste time but most survivors will try and find a hatch if you haven't already closed it. As for maybe get away, I'm not referring to the wiggle, I'm referring to breaking LOS and getting to an exit gate or finding hatch.
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Well maybe its a south american issue than. Cause honestly flip flop and boil over are rarely ever seen in my lobbies. As I've stated in other comments the issue isn't a major issue unless offerings or specific perks are brought. It sounds like instead of changing how hooks work it sounds like you need them to change how perks work.
As for your two maps, I've never really had an issue getting to two hooks on midwich I will however admit unlike other maps, your most likely not getting to 3 hooks. As for RPD, I don't see it enough to actually know. I usually lose on that map and it has nothing to do with hooks.
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This is a PvP game, and guaranteeing a kill isn’t wasting time.
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Then the OPs complaint is invalidated. You're only wasting time if you think its a waste. I see it is a waste in my personal opinion. I rather gurantee a kill in the next game than babysit a slug in the current.
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I completely agree lol. I remember when hooks didn't come back lol. Sabo was broken and you HAD to slug. We almost have almost double the hooks now than we use to have. I remember when I started, you had like 7-8 hooks in the ENTIRE map lol.
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