The 7.0.0 Patch Notes We Need | Addressing Camping, Tunneling & Slugging
For the next release of DBD, we're taking a look at the base issues of the game and reworking core mechanics to remove certain existing issues like camping, tunneling and slugging. These are concepts that make it frustrating for Survivors to play the game and Killers are heavily rewarded for doing so.
All issues described below are solvable with perks but perks shouldn't be the solution to core mechanic problems. It's like trying to fix an engine with nails. It does nothing and takes away the space players should have to experiment with other perks.
I'm updating the list from time to time as people post good opinions as why something should or not be here or if it should be in a different way.
7.0.0 Patch Notes (1.0.3)
Camping
- Whenever the killer is within 8 meters of a hooked survivor, the hook timer is paused.
- The hook timer is resumed while other Survivors are in the radius.
- The effects are not applied if the exit gates are powered.
Explanation: While at first glance this may look like a hard counter for Killers it really isn't and for some may be even considered a buff. As a Killer if you see the timer is paused you know there is no one in that radius but if it's moving it works like a mini Whispers. Remember you can still hit survivors, no other mechanic is affected othen than the hook timer. Once a Killer has hooked someone and there's nothing attracting the killer to that same area the enforced gameplay should be patroling generators and not enabling camping/facecamping. This change benefits as much Survivors as it benefits Killers. The only Killers who may complain are the exact ones with the playstyle this change aims to discourage.
Tunneling
The introduction of Borrowed Time to the base kit was a step in the right direction but it doesn't solve the issue for those Killers that really feel the need to tunnel. Fortunately, it's very solvable.
- Increased the base-kit Endurance timer after getting unhooked from 5 seconds to 10 seconds.
- Added Decisive Strike to the base-kit - lasts for 1 minute.
- All effects are canceled if any Conspicuous Action is taken.
- The effects are not applied if the exit gates are powered.
Slugging
Ever been left to smell the grass on the ground for half a match or more? Everyone has and it's not very attractive. With these changes we hope to make slugging less rewarding.
- A Survivor that is the dying state when another Survivor is put in the dying state has the ability to finish recovering himself.
- The Survivor must have been left on the ground for at least 90 seconds to able to fully recover (95% takes 30 seconds without perks).
- When getting up, the Survivor has the Endurance status effect for 10 seconds.
- The effects are not applied if the exit gates are powered.
Explanation: The aim of this change is not to replace Unbreakable or Soul Guard. It does not provide extra recovering speed nor multiple recoveries. It is intended to stop Killers from leaving someone on the floor for long periods of time while they go off on their side quests to do whatever it may be - chasing other survivors, slugging all survivors, tunnel someone real' quick... imagination is the limit. The extra endurance prevents Killers that do not want to pick you up from staring at your face while you are down and slowly fading away. It allows you to get up while not getting downed in the next second. Other perks may need reworks but that's outside the scope of this change.
Perk Changes
There would be perks whose effect wouldn't be as relevant with all of these changes so they would need to be reworked slightly. That's outside of the scope of these changes so we won't list them here.
UI CHanges
- In the lobby screen (matchmaking and custom), all Survivors Perks are shown to each other in the last 15 seconds, just before the match starts.
None of the changes above modify how a match is played by a Killer that performs as expected and does not engage in powerful/toxic playstyles. With recent patches it's been harder than ever for solo queue players at higher ranks to be useful. Please keep in mind the game should be balanced for solo queue and not for the SWF minority.
There are definitely other changes that could be done perk-wise or UI-wise that would also help with how a game is played but I'd like to focus on these toxic/powerful mechanics the most.
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Disclaimer: I'm not a BHVR employee nor are these notes the real deal. I just wanted to write them in a fun way that's easy to read.
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Share your thoughts.
Comments
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DS base kit AND 5 seconds would be great. it would only be OP against tunnelers, which is perfectly fine.
On the other hand... I kinda would rather have DS be 3 seconds baseline AND still have the perk to extend the duration. Tunnelers would always be punished, but in different ways. (if it's just basekit, it could encourage slugging).
Another solution would not to give it baseline, but make it incredibly strong as a perk, like 7 or 8 seconds. Make it something to be scared of.
However, DS should NOT work when opening gates are open, it shouldn't be a guaranteed free escape.
For camping, I'd rather give a repair speed bonus to all survivors depending on how close the killer is to a hook (and not in a chase).
Like, for example, all survivors repair up to 50% fasters while the killer is from 32 to 0 meters from the hook, 10 seconds after hooking.
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I see your point. I agree on the DS free escape thing, I overlooked that! Definitely shouldn't be a thing.
As for camping, what you're describing would benefit other players but still make the game frustrating for the one who is on the hook. That is why I trully believe hook timers have to be paused if the killer is nearby. They wanna camp? Let them. Whoever is on the hook won't give a damn as they're also not losing hook progress. Once they get tired, they eventually leave. If they don't, they still lose the game.
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With regards to the point about hook timer being paused if the killer is nearby. This was something that was tested some years ago and found to not work - it's very easily abusable. A survivor running in an area around the hook, killer chasing - that would pause the timer for example. Which is something out of control of the killer.
Whilst I completely agree that players should be encouraged not to camp, I do not feel that punishing for camping should be the route we go down (please bear in mind this is purely my own opinion here)....it should still remain player choice whether they wish to camp or not.
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Camping
This has been attempted once. There were too many holes/ issues with the mechanic to keep. For example, we have maps such as Gideon that are stacked on top of each other, keeping you technically within 10m and pausing the timer despite not camping.
Basekit BT
I'm all for extending the duration but 10 seconds feels a bit much. I would settle for something more like 8.
Basekit DS
No. Look, tunneling should be discouraged but should be, well, an option. Besides, here are the things you can do with DS active: Solve Ceno's box, disarm Bear Traps, Bodyblock injured teammates, flashy save, disarm Hag traps, lock Dredge's lockers, lightburn Wraith, kick Victor, and uncage someone.
Slugging
What's with the double whammy? Ability to get up AND Endurance? That's way overkill. There are times you physically have to slug, such as a sabo play or hook deadzones or you're being swarmed by beamers.
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Hmm makes sense I guess, what about if we add a rule to that @Mandy?
If it's only the killer in 10m radius the hook timer is paused but if there's any Survivor in that radius the hook timer resumes.
That way it's fair game for everyone and still makes sure a Killer is not rewarded for camping. It's up to the Survivors then to either let the Killer stay near a hook or take them away somehwere else. Or up to the Killer if he wants to sit at the hook for the rest of the game or actually play the game as it was meant to be.
The most important point for me with all this is that the player on the hook should not feel frustrated (and be forced out of the match) for things they cannot control.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 I agree with some of your points but I have a question. Why do you think tunneling (during normal gameplay and not end game) should be an option? It forces players out of the game without giving them a chance to do anything. It's like as a Killer I have the power to make someone lose rank / MMR for example. It's only allowed today or considered normal because it was never addressed and has been an issue for a very long time.
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Whenever the killer is within 10 meters of a hooked survivor, the hook timer is paused.
Wouldn't work, it's too abuseable.
A Survivor that is the dying state when another Survivor is put in the dying state has the ability to finish recovering himself.
When getting up, the Survivor has the Endurance status effect for 10 seconds.
I don't think there needs to be any base-kit countermeasures to slugging, as getting slugged is fully in the Survivors' control
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer Can you please give a different example from Mandy as how it would be abusable? I can't see any other case where it would be a problem. If the Killer does not camp, the game runs as it should.
As for the slugging, you're partially right. There are definitely cases where a Survivor just throws themselves at the Killer but there are also instances where Killers leave people on the ground in order to chase others down on purpose. In SWF this doesn't happen as often because with a simple callout you can get back up or let someone else know what the Killer is up to but in solo queue it's a different story and it's what concerns me the most.
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The devs straight up said that things such as camping/tunneling, while not very fun, are also necessary evils for the game to function.
If you're on hook, there needs to be agency for your teammates to save you. Otherwise, if the timer gets low, the killer will secure the next stage.
If you're unhooked, you still need to be in some sort of danger. I agree with them having defenses to discourage, but not make entirely impossible.
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I made a post where I basically made the same proposition but making the game a little bit more face-paced - bonus repair speed instead of pausing hook time. It also distinguishes between different "kinds of camps" and allows some strategic version of it: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3124489
But I think this might be besides the point as we will get reassurance perk (which basically shuts down all kinds of hard-camps)
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Survivor gets hooked, Survivors A and rush the Hook. Now the Killer can't leave, because the Survivors will get a free unhook, but if they don't let the Survivors get a free unhook, the Hook doesn't progress. It's the same issue I have with Reassurance in a 3-Gen situation.
there are also instances where Killers leave people on the ground in order to chase others down on purpose.
That's just playing efficiently, and there's nothing wrong with that
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Hmmm, I kinda disagree here just from a pure game design perspective. Should a player really be given the option to deny somebody else's fun just because they have fun doing so? Camping and tunneling shouldn't be options because they rely on making the opponent miserable and that is just not how games should be designed.
Like, by that logic there should also just be an insta-win button. Players can choose whether to use it or not, ofc, but the option is there and, by your own admission, it would be just as valid.
Personally I am against having things in games that are unfun. They shouldn't be options because they are not fun strategies and games should be fun. Players should be allowed to play how they want, but not at the expense of other players enjoyment of the game. You simply can't do that in PvP games.
PvE games on the other hand you can do whatever you want and maybe this should be the better option you guys should give players. The option to either go against real players or bots, both letting you earn BP and XP and progress through the game. At least then if you keep peoples options to camp and tunnel, you are at least telling people "you also just have the option to never go against them by simply playing against bots". This also gives power to players in general, letting them go "well if you just keep playing in unfun ways, then imma just stop playing against you in general".
Now I know what are you gonna say "people are just gonna stop playing against players, because they don't wanna face Blights and Nurses and SWFs etc" and to that I say well maybe you should take it as something you need to fix. It's free data, listen to what people are complaining about and fix it. If people don't wanna play against other players because of Blight or Nurse or SWFs or whatever, then nerf them. If we are talking about player options, give players the option to not go against unfun players.
This is something I don't really get from your comment, you talk about players having the option to camp if they want, so surely you'd be okay with an option for players to not go against that and actually get to play the game in a way that doesn't end with them dying with under 10k BP under their name.
But if you guys really wanna keep camping and tunneling a thing, how about you reward players 40k BP guaranteed every match they have to deal with that? If I am forced to deal with unfun players and strategies, I should at least be paid for it.
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Well, if you're just staying near the Killer near a hook it's not exactly a free unhook. You're gonna get hit... That remains unchanged. And also, take a look at the reply I wrote to Mandy.
This would solve what you're saying no?
As for the efficiency, you can't have it all honestly. While I do believe you have a point it's also true that it's absolutely ridiculous when every Survivor is on the ground 5 minutes into the game because of god knows what and the game is just over since no one has Unbreakable. That's what i'm trying to address. If it's near end game it's a completely different scenario and I mentioned the effects are off when the gates are powered.
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Only encouraging killers to not tunnel and camp just isn't enough if tunneling and camping remain strong strategies though, that's the problem. This is especially because those strategies take much less skill, so killers struggling will resort to those strategies when they aren't doing so well, for an easy way out. Which is really not fair to survivors.
These strategies being so unfun is also a serious problem. I would still argue we are seeing this in queue times. Survivors shouldn't be at the mercy of the killer to play fairly and in a fun way.
We need both encouragements to not camp and tunnel and discouragements to camp and tunnel. We got the former with the 6.1.0 update, now we just need the latter, in my opinion.
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I 100% want a version of DBD where DS could finally be basekit. This would make sure survivors all had a fair chance to stay long enough in the match, and would make sure that going for different survivors would be the optimal play by the killer, which in return would make sure that every survivor can enjoy the match and have a fair game.
But I fear, even with the baseline killer buffs, we aren'tr quite there yet. The endurance effect being increased to 10 seconds is a must in my opinion, but DS basekit would also require some other changes, mainly map balancing, especially the very survivor sided maps, and buffs to low tier killers.
I also think the devs should just increase the hook phase duration from 60 to 70 seconds, and remove hook grabs. That would already help against camping a lot, and be a great first step. It would also be much easier to do.
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I also think the devs should just increase the hook phase duration from 60 to 70 seconds, and remove hook grabs. That would already help against camping a lot, and be a great first step. It would also be much easier to do.
This is definitely not a bad idea to start making changes in the right direction.
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So there is a single consistent issue among changes like these, and that is inconsistencies. Camping, slugging and tunneling are all baseline things that a killer can decide to do or not, which leads to the deeper issue of intent, purpose and context.
On the killer side of the issue, there's killers who engage in these unfun play styles and then there are those who simply don't. Genuinely good killers and bad killers. Bad killers engage in these tactics mostly because they either lack the skill for more efficient play or they're seeking to actively make an unfun experience. There is then good killers who choose more optimal play styles. They don't camp or tunnel if they can help it, but sometimes they are forced into scenarios where it's more beneficial to punish bad survivor plays then to go by the killer guidelines. Changes listed by OP would punish both kinds of killers regardless of intent or context.
On the survivors end, they make the most of everything they have, and unfortunately would abuse mechanics that went in their favor. I'm not saying it's bad to abuse a game mechanic, I'm saying it's bad when it heavily makes things unfun for the other side. Much like camping, tunneling and slugging ironically. It's also important to remember a couple of of other things: Bad plays should be punished as every reward has its risk, so a survivor shouldn't be saved by the game for making a bad decision. Extending that, it is important to remember that these kinds of mechanics are meant to aid survivors in attempting to counter slugging, tunneling and camping, not outright cancel them out.
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lmao this would literally kill the game
you do realize tunneling/camping/slugging are strategies this game is literally balanced around, right? lmfao
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If you trully believe that's how the game should be played you're most likely part of the problem mate. Regardless of being balanced around that or not, leaving things as-is is just poor game design. Say what you want.
From my own experience and I bet everyone else's, games are much more fun when there's no toxic behavior on both Killer and Survivor sides. And keep in mind, the problem is not losing a game, it never was. The problem is someone being forced out of a game feeling like they did nothing at all (because they couldn't) and ending up geeting 5k BP + loss of rank. And why? Because the killer decided he was gonna do a lil' campin' that match.
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I mean, if you want to literally remove fundamental strategies this game is balanced around, you are going to need to massively change the game and add buffs. Outside of people that just do it whenever cause they feel like it, the reason most people do it is because it is strategically the best call. If you don't want the latter group of people to do it, you need to incentivize not doing it by giving actual mechanical buffs for not doing so equivalent to or greater than doing so. The former group will never ever stop. You could make as many changes as you want and people that don't care won't care.
The joke is you think strategies are toxic. That's like saying it's toxic for an enemy to go for headshots in a FPS because it's not fun you die fast lmao. Fun is irrelevant to balance. You will never ever get a situation where all players think it's fun always. It's an entirely subjective and impossible to attain standard.
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@SuzuKR You understand you're saying the game relies on Toxic/Powerful Mechanics to be a thing. I do just fine when playing Killer and not camping/tunneling/slugging people. In fact I feel way better when not doing any of those.
It's 100% understandable that at some point in the match for some reason you're forced to engage in one of the mechanics above. Most likely slugging than the others. The game is almost over, you're seeing your life running backwards and you're forced to make a powerful move.
Camping & Tunneling are not strategies - they are the easy way out of any match for a Killer! Proof of that is very simple to provide. I can go all the way from B5 to I1 simply by camping and tunneling every game. Did I do anything to deserve that rank? Absolutely not. It's nothing like being able to hit an headshot in any shooter. Far from it. It is however something like spawn camping in a shooter. You gotta compare apples to apples and not apples to bananas.
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Basekit unbreakable would be a horrible change and punishes the killer for punishing survivors being close together. If the killer can chain 3 downs one after the other, this shouldn't allow the first two people a free pass to get themselves up.
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What's toxic? What's not? Who makes the determination? Any time your foe stymies you in a PvP title is not fun for you. But it is for them. So how do you make the determination as to who gets more fun? Wanting buffed versions of the most powerful perks in the game as base features certainly makes it seem like you think survivors are entitled to more fun than killer players. They'd be afforded many more options to stymie the killer, certainly.
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You could make it not stop the timer if the killer is in chase with someone else. Also considering how often camping and tunnelling get talked about and how it is basically being forcefully told ‘you don’t get to play’ and on top of the fact they are actually effective strategies so even if you aren’t doing them to be a jerk you might anyway, I’d think that dealing with this in some capacity should be a very high priority. I mean player choice on whether they want to make the game miserable for someone else? Does that sound horrible to anyone else?
Obviously any such change would likely imbalance the game but honestly that’s crying over split milk at this point and there’s compensation that could be given if necessary as a short term fix just to help the games health.
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Are we talking about the same thing? If you're also one of those who likes and finds it fun to camp and tunnel every Survivor in the first 5 minutes of the match these changes are 100% for players like yourself.
My issue with the game, which I make painfully obvious in the post, is with Killers who strictly play with camping and tunneling playstyles. Playstyles those that do not require any skill and are absolutely frustrating for anyone playing against them.
it's not about toxicity really, it's about powerfulness. Sometimes both.
If you are a Killer who does not abuse the powerful mechanics, you'd never be affected by these changes.
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Being camped or tunneled is not preventing you from playing. I know sitting on a hook isn't fun or engaging, but it's still a part of the survivor gameplay loop.
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That is still insanely abusable. Then they just hide nearby, so killer knows they’re there but has no reason to chase a currently specific-location unknown survivor which could just give a free unhook. And if 2 are there, it would be stupid to even chase, because leaving hook is immediate free unhook for the other. It forces killer into lose-lose.
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I actually like most of these, with a lot of tweaks.
- See below for the camping fix I'd use.
- I...don't mind the idea of baseline DS, actually.
Showing perks in the lobby sounds good on paper, but in reality you'd just see people dodge lobbies if anyone doesn't have the 'right' perks.
The issue isn't so much camping as hard facecamping with specific killers that make unhooking nearly impossible due to their kits. Bubba, for instance.
What's odd to me is that this issue is totally fixed on some killers, who can't use their powers near hooked survivors. These killers tend not to be good campers, and, for the most part, this promotes a healthier playstyle on them.
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It isn’t the only thing in there though which is basically what camping and tunnelling does to someone. Making players ‘play’ the least fun part of the game is just a horrible experience and there’s a reason why it gets talked about so often.
Okay so if a survivor within a given range then. Yeah that would give it away to the killer but come on this is a major issue. Also if three survivors are in the same spot that’s a lot of information for the killer.
I don’t say I have all the answers here but a small temporary balance sacrifice in an already insanely imbalanced game is worth it for the sake of game health.
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You are playing a pvp game. I get those moments aren't fun, but they are also part of the game. Sometimes you have to deal with the unfun aspects in a pvp game.
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Of course but that’s not a shield against all aspects unfun. Especially not something that has zero engagement because that’s not what people play pvp for.
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To be camped, you had to have been chased. To be tunneled, you have to be chased.
To claim that there is zero engagement is a lie. You had engagement and now it's up to your teammates to set in and help.
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@Crowman I understand what you mean but the problem isn't just camping or tunneling when for some reason you have to do it because there's 1gen left or whatever... It's when Killers start the match with that playstyle already in mind.
Remember I suggest ALL of the effects I ddescribed on the post are off when the gates are powered!
As long as you do not engage in powerful playstyles the game doesn't even change from what it used to be.
It changes for those who do though, and a lot, because now they are forced to actually play.
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There's nothing wrong with camping or tunneling at the start of the game. They are legit tactics. The idea that the killer can only play a certain way if other conditions are met is bs.
The only problematic thing in the game right now is facecamping and sadly there's no way to tackle facecamping that doesn't hurt legit strategies around the hook. Camping whether it's defending an area due to the location of gens and hooks, forcing a survivor to the next hook state, or being forced to camped because survivors are near the hook are all fine.
Tunneling is fine as well as survivors have perks and teammates to help against that and just because the game says 5 gens left, doesn't actually mean there's 5 gens left. Now tunneling might be a bit too effective right now and could be nerfed, but there's nothing wrong going into the game with the mindset to force an early death as early as possible.
If killer playstyles are wrong based on the gen count, then the reverse should be true for survivor playstyles (it's not btw). Like survivors shouldn't flashlight or pallet save teammates until there's 1 gen left. Survivors shouldn't body block the killer carrying a survivor until 1 gen left. Survivors shouldn't complete a gen until the killer has a hook. These are all ridiculous notions that no survivor will play by yet somehow survivors want to force killers to play inefficiently for their sake in a pvp game.
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Chased once and I’m taking about once you are on the hook. And in some cases when being tunnelled you barely get anywhere and have zero actual plays. If you are being camped your team mates can’t do anything safely, that’s why it’s an issue.
The answer to being camped is often said to be ‘do gens’. While the player on hook does NOTHING. For a prolonged period. They can spend more of the game doing NOTHING then any actual game play. How is this acceptable? I mean being an inferior strategy used by beginner killers who just want to get at least one, I’d sort of understand but it is used even at high levels of play even competitively and they DO get more points for hooking different people and despite this they still camp and tunnel.
Honestly like it or not this gets talked about for a very good reason. It’s not engaging and it’s counter play is uninteresting and it totally sucks for the victim, not sucks a little bit like dying in a shooter and respawning 5 to 10 seconds later, it is much worse then that. I don’t care whether killers are rewarded for not camping or punished for doing so, but something has to give.
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Can't give examples anymore I guess. You're failing to see the broader picture. Gen count is not important here.
Camping is not the same as patroling an area. When you're camping you're actively preventing a Survivor from being unhooked. That is basically forcing someone out of the game because you felt like it. It's what I call a powerful play that should NEVER be allowed. You are undoubtedly enforcing your playstyle on other Survivors. It is a very very powerful tool that no Killer should have at their mercy.
Same thing applies to tunneling. Whenever it may be, beginning of the match, mid-match... but specially early stages. You are once again forcing someone out of the game.
In both instances, you are not playing the game. You are ABUSING a powerful mechanic that has NEVER been fixed up to today. It's not that it isn't valid it's that BHVR hasn't made it invalid yet. It's the the absolute easiest way out of a match for a Killer. Most of the times resulting in free BP and pips. Can almost be considered an exploit now that I think about it.
And what's the best of all is that... all of those changes DO NOT affect any Killer that intends to play the game the way it should be played - without abusing powerful mechanics. They wouldn't notice a thing - or at least that's what I'm trying to refine based on people's opinions.
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Tactics killers can apply to win are exploits now? lol.
DBD is a PvP elimination game. The killer is trying to eliminate you. That's the whole point. Being upset that the killer is using a playstyle you don't approve of to kill you is entitlement.
If I am able to force a survivor to be on there death hook early in the game, then I'm going to remove them from the game. Because it's the smart play to make. Letting them live just to be fair is throwing. I do try to spread out hooks the best I can, but I'm not above forcing someone out of the game if the opportunity arises.
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I see. Well it's because of players like yourself that everyone complains about such powerful mechanics. Because that's what they are. And when they are abused over and over guess what they become... exactly.
It's not about being a playstyle I don't approve or not. It's not even a playstyle to begin with. It just exists because it has never been addressed and shows poor game design in that sense. Saying it is fine and it's part of the game is absolutely not the reality.
A playstyle in my book is making my build and decide how I want to patrol the map among other things. Not just pick the 4 most OP perks I can find and engage in camping and tunneling. That requires 0 skill and thought. And worst of all, it gets rewarded.
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There's no poor game design happening. The game is designed where survivors have moments of powerlessness and they need their team to help. The game is designed around the killer being able to eliminate other players throughout the game.
Nothing is being abused. The devs have stated that both camping and tunneling are fine. Whether or not they might be too strong is a different issue.
Not to mention you call it 0 skill, but the killer still has to outplay you in a chase to get you on the hook and then to tunnel you out of the game has to outplay you more. The only thing that is up for a debate is facecamping which again is not an easy problem to solve because of it's effect on moments where camping is the right move such as defending the hooked survivor from an unhook or because they are located by gens.
Just because you don't approve of something does not make it an exploit or no skill. I could say that flashlight saves are an exploit and require no skill on the simple fact that being flashlight saved sucks to deal with. Doesn't mean I'm right, but I can say it.
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I play whatever side has the shortest queue times. I literally just enjoy DBD whatever role I'm playing. It used to be like 70/30 killer/surv but lately it's 20/80. I rarely see this hardcore camping you're decrying. People have a bad game and it feeds into their bias about how bad survivor is or whatever. In truth it is not nearly so frequent as what they want to believe or they have extremely lenient definitions of what camping and tunneling entails so they see it in every game.
Do I camp people? I proxy camp very frequently but that's really the only way to make my favorite killers viable. If three gens pop during my first chase then I'm in a rather desperate position and kind of have to force a trade to get any kind of pressure. You apparently don't want me to have that option, which makes for dull experience. Stripping agency and options from player is rarely the solution. You're aiming at a moose sized problem with an orbital laser with all these basekit options you seem to want. Removing slugging entirely, freeing up several perk slots for survivors. I'm not sure if you genuinely want survivors to be vastly overpowered or if you're simply ignorant.
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No it’s not. Strategies will never be fun for all parties involved. One side not having fun does not make it a problem. Is survivors being able to split up and rotate on gens so no matter who a killer chases, others they can’t stop from doing gens fun for the killer? Probably not. The only thing they can do is end chase quicker or map manage better, but that is a fully feasible option which is why it’s not a problem. Is being tunneled fun? Probably not. The only thing they can do is try and not go down. But survivors are also a team, and someone being tunneled means zero pressure on anyone else, which is free gen progression for them. All strategies have their pros and cons. This game is balanced for the majority of players.
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I agree with camping and tunneling but slugging is bit different most of the time is survivors fault unless killer is like just really going for it and only killers who can really do that are nurse and twins. So I don't know should killer being punished that survivors playee badly? Maybe at least 100s on the ground before you can recover.
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Very one sided approach once again, while calling it toxic and trying to take away any agency from the players without considering how survivors and especially SWFs could utilize the changes to their advantage.
Consider the game design of hooks and unhooking, it isn't created with the idea that the survivors should get it for free. On top of that you want to give nothing in return or motivation to play differently out of the concept of survivor fun without considering the killers fun.
This is a PvP game, one side faces another and guess what both sides will sometimes face and deal with things that are not fun. This is way to lopsided to take seriously.
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But if survivors get these basekit killers need something in return. Basekit corrupt and BBQ would be fine start. Grim embrace also would be good basekit encouraging hooking 4 different survivors.
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Well do you see survivors camping and tunneling killers? Do you see them forcing killers out of their games? I don't, so of course this is one sided. Killers force powerful playstyles on Survivors and dictate if they are allowed to play a match or if they are gonna get out in the first 5 minutes. Do you understand that? I'm open to suggestions and I like to see other opinions but stuff like "the game is fine", "it's a pvp game", "its not fun for either side" just doesn't sit well with me when I can clearly see there's an issue with this game. Very clearly. And I go this far because I honestly enjoy playing it when the stars align.
I play both sides. I know how they feel. But overall, the Survivor side is always penalized. Maybe some OP SWF can make you feel like **** as a Killer, but that's a very low minority. I very rarely feel frustrated as a Killer.
All I've written so far on those notes - with some changes from people's opinions - wouldn't affect me in any way when playing Killer. It will only affect those who love camping and tunneling mindlessly. That's just how it is.
Btw, read the camping part and tunneling again. You're saying they get stuff for free, that's clearly not the case. You try to unhook with the killer by your side and you are still gonna get hit. These mechanics are supposed to protect someone who was just on the hook and give them a fighting chance.
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Haha, very funny. This is a joke right?
So if you're going to provide such massive buffs to survivors how do you plan to balance it? You've taken 2 meta perks and now made the base kit for survivors: full Decisive Strike & 10 second Borrowed Time (remember before 6.1.0 BT was only 12 seconds) along with a weaker Unbreakable, which is possibly the best 2nd chance perk in the game. And then they get better than Soul Guard endurance when they get up?!?
If a killer slugs a survivor and chases someone else the slug can immediately start crawling and crawl away for up to 60 seconds and then pick themself up off the ground virtually for free all the while 1 survivor is chased and the other 2 stay on generators because they know the downed survivor can get up on their own as soon as the chased survivor goes down. Slugs have a 4 minute bleed out timer so they could in theory do this twice a game. This doesn't discourage slugging, it destroys it. That's not even taking into account the 10 second endurance which would be the icing and the ice cream on top of the cake.
You might as well take away 2 or 3 perk slots from survivors and it's still a net buff. How would you buff killers enough to balance these changes and let survivors keep all 4 perk slots?
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I'd make it 1 meter. 10 is to big of a range. But I still don't know if that would even work. And I doubt adding code to do what you're suggesting would even work. In fact, it might break the game.
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Well first off, if you think it's a joke rethink how you play the game, you're most likely part of the problem. People who tend to think this is fine are the ones who cause it in the first place.
Regardless, forget the perks exist, I use them as reference just so I don't have to describe the whole effect. It's not about taking the powers of the perks and making them base-kit! These mechanics should always have been base-kit. Certain perks are just half-assed solutions for the real problems. "Oh we have this issue with the game, people are complaining this and that is too op. No worries, we can make a perk for that. - BHVR"
You know what happened when they kept doing that? We got about 6 meta perks that were used roughly by 90% of survivors just so they could have a better chance of surviving. Perks are supposed to make a difference on how you play, not prevent powerful mechanics from killers.
Second, please read what I say about slugging and then re-read your comment.
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How come you are adding that same functionality as a perk then?
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I see your point but it can't be too low that the Killer would just leave for a sec and come back. My opinion is that once the Killer hooks someone he should start patroling if there's nothing attracting him to the hooked survivor. If there's any other survivor in that radius the timer resumes and if there's a chase nearby the timer is still going down. If a Survivor is nearby he has to be smart about how he plays it out. Also remember, Killers see timers! If it's going down while they are near the hook that means someone is in the area. Kind of like a mini Whispers if you will. Hope that shows a bit of my POV, do you still think 1m is enough?
Another question, how would it break the game?
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