The 7.0.0 Patch Notes We Need | Addressing Camping, Tunneling & Slugging

The argument of survivors don't camp and tunnel killers is non-sensical and just shows your ill faith in the discussion, with no actual interest of understanding the concept and game design. Get you out in the first 5 mins? Euhm... guess you never actually met a good squad, survivors can end the game in 5 mins and so yeah... they can get you out of the game in that time span, because they finish it. Acting like survivors aren't able to control the pace of the game as much as killers is nonsense, they have to play together, they are a team, they are with 4 and yes the killer can kill while the survivors cannot. Survivors have as much to say in the game as a killer, just they are with 4 so... it is a team effort compared to the team of 1, who relies purely on their own actions. The concept is that both sides have influence on the game and its length, while yes it being a 4v1 PvP game.

Not allowed to play a match? You do realize that doing gens, hanging on a hook, healing, saving people, looping and opening gates, etc. are part of the survivors playing the game. If as a survivor you saw the killer, you were chased, got hit, got chased some more, got hit again, picked up then you wiggle and end up on the hook, dangle on the hook, struggle on the hook and die... You played the game. Like if you don't like being on a hook, healing, doing gens... you don't actually like playing survivor. The premise that the killer is denying you to play the game is false, you just don't like the gameplay of that match. The stars didn't align and you lost. It is a PvP game, you will lose at times and that is ok. Sometimes you get dominated, sometimes it is a close match, sometimes you will dominate... that is the nature of PvP games and all those outcomes are expected and good for the game. You cannot have the highs without the lows.

Killers force powerful playstyles on survivors? So, you do get that it is a powerful move that a killer can make, it can be punished, it can be outplayed, it is strong and you want to remove it... without anything in return? You state you play both sides? Not properly if you don't understand the game design, pressure generated and how that isn't anywhere nearly the same as a single health state compared to a survivor on the hook, a hook state or even a kill. People can already trade as you claim in your segment of it is "not free", it isn't something you introduced it just requires the survivors to do the correct play and if they mess up or don't respond in time go there etc it has a cost which you want to remove for free.

You clearly don't understand when it is appropriate to camp and tunnel. Do some people rely to heavily on these tactics sure, but acting like they aren't intrinsic parts of the games design and balance as it currently stands and that just gutting the whole premise without any adjustments on the killer end. You claim it only affects those who love camping an tunneling mindlessly, really shows the lack of understanding of the more competitive, come back moves and how those that play to win approach the game. Nor does it account for the punishment of bad plays on the survivors end by the killer. If you cannot identify and understand when it is the correct play ever, than you live in a fantasy world. On top of that it ignores the potential that survivors can do with these mechanics you suggest when they play competitively.

There isn't actually anything wrong with wanting to shift the powerful moves that a killer can make, but in order to create a shift... if you care about balance you have to make other aspects more attractive, better, more powerful to compensate for the drop in power that you want to create in those areas that bother you and that is what is missing. That is why it is lopsided and unrealistic. They get stuff for free, because you can already go in and save someone off the hook and trade for a hit, if you play it correctly as a team of survivors.

You feel rarely frustrated as a killer? Having fun with a style you like, does not mean you are winning the matches nor does it invalidate those that do get frustrated, are maybe less experienced, play to win and will pull out tactics and strategies to recover from a situation where they are behind regardless of what the other side does. The idea that because you don't feel a certain way doesn't mean other people don't. I personally rarely get frustrated if a killer camps or tunnels me, does that now mean that those feelings you have are invalid?

You enjoy playing it when the stars align? Yet it is a PvP game, if the stars align for you that most likely means it is not at all doing so for your opponent and guess what they need a way to snowball back into the game. That is the thing with DBD, it is a snowball game; it can go horribly wrong or very good. It can shift from one side to the other quickly, but I guess in those games you just throw in the towel instead of using tactics you disapprove of to one up your opponents.

The game is a 4v1 PvP game, the concept is that the killer if they really want to kill 1 player they are going to be able to. They are more powerful after all than a single survivor... because they are 4. The moment you try to address the balance of the game where a single survivor can compete directly with the killer and it becomes impossible for a killer to throw the match for a single person, because lets be clear if the team plays well that is what happens than the game isn't balanced properly anymore.

Do solo survivors need more help to be able to make informed choices? Yes for sure. Should DS be buffed back to 5 seconds, Yes for sure as 3 seconds is way to little. Could they expand the hook timers to compensate for gens taking longer now, yes they can. Yet what I state here are minor tweaks, what you suggest is to fundamentally change the design without any clear understanding on why those choices are the correct play and why other ones are at a determent in comparison or how the risk/reward of those plays don't even come close to camping or tunneling. There is a reason why people make those plays and it isn't to prevent others from playing the game, it is to win in a PvP game.

the best counter that still allows a killer agency is information -- we need an indication that a killer is near a hook for a period of time or proxying near it to be able to play around it. we need to know if someone is going for an unhook and a way to tell if that person got intercepted. this would make a huge difference without touching the hook timers.

@uniqid

How can you state this: "Killers should not have the ability to force you out of a game and I stick by that." You realize this just translate into: You believe that killers should not have the ability to kill survivors.

This shows why would want drastic changes to the powerful gameplay aspects of killers, without a single consideration or adaptation in another section to compensate. You aren't trying to create a balanced fun experience for both sides, at least not in the premise of the games core design. This is a 4v1 game, yet you want to make it that survivors can stand their ground in the 1v1 and that inherently is an impossible proposition if the team of 1 is ever to stand a chance.

Are you sure that you enjoy dead by daylight, the core game play loop is that: Survivors try to power the gates and escape, while the Killer tries to kill and remove all the survivors before that happens.

You don't get that the survivors start the match in the best spot for them, you don't believe that the killer should be able to make a come back? Therefore everything will be decided within the first 1 to 2 mins without the ability to come back for the killer if the survivors play well and the killer should do what at that point, chase them for the 'fun of the survivors'?

"For those changes to be made a lot would have to change, there's no denying that." Yet you are incapable of indicating where the other changes would need to be made. As we are simply pointing out that your suggestions in isolation just destroys the base game balance. It isn't tweaking the game, it is fundamentally changing it.

How am I twisting your words, you stated:  "Killers should not have the ability to force you out of a game and I stick by that.". The manner in which killers force you out of a game is by killing you. That is what that means, the time frame in which they do so is dependent on the performance of the killer compared to the the performance of the survivor and their team. Each of your suggestions and comebacks are based on some ideological idea of normal game play, while not understanding what creates game play. In your fantasy world where the stars always align, without considering the humans that actually will play the game.

I have even stated some tweaks that I would like to have to actually make these tactics less strong. Let me repeat them for you, because clearly you are having issues with a civil discussion that seemingly by starting up the conversation would imply you wanted to have:

"Do solo survivors need more help to be able to make informed choices? Yes for sure.

Should DS be buffed back to 5 seconds, Yes for sure as 3 seconds is way to little.

Could they expand the hook timers to compensate for gens taking longer now, yes they can.

Yet what I state here are minor tweaks, what you suggest is to fundamentally change the design without any clear understanding on why those choices are the correct play and why other ones are at a determent in comparison or how the risk/reward of those plays don't even come close to camping or tunneling. There is a reason why people make those plays and it isn't to prevent others from playing the game, it is to win in a PvP game."

To respond to the "The fact that I think that it is acceptable to camp and tunnel and deemed it core game play?" As it currently stands in the games design it does, they are cornerstones of how the current mechanics work that is just reality. I also stated the below clearly that what you are trying to achieve to eliminate these elements from the game isn't fundamentally wrong and yet it requires more than what you suggest, if you are actually serious about it.

"There isn't actually anything wrong with wanting to shift the powerful moves that a killer can make, but in order to create a shift... if you care about balance you have to make other aspects more attractive, better, more powerful to compensate for the drop in power that you want to create in those areas that bother you and that is what is missing."

BHVR changed up the meta, they changed base mechanics and the meta perks. They didn't do this in isolation and new powerful tools and perks arrived in the process. While I believe they made a mistake to not provide buffs to solo survivors at the same time, when wanting to create a sizable shift you have to take but also give, else it completely bombs.

The whole this isn't my job cop out, just showcases that you have no interest in actually discussing the topic at hand in a realistic fashion. I didn't twist your words, but you clearly tried to twist mine. You made a post called the patch notes we need, with suggestions to fundamental change the game. You want to give suggestions on an aspect of the game, without considering the ramifications that those changes would have upon the game and want the developers to consider them? You are the one that initiated the topic, you are making the suggestions. This isn't your job, but what does that have to do with anything? You are the one that started the conversation on the forum, if you didn't want feedback on your suggestions then why post it? 

Your statements do clearly show what you would want, I am not stating anything about BHVRs intentions, so I don't get why you bring them up in your defense. Frankly speaking the feedback I am providing you is exactly why BHVR would NOT be interested in the suggestions you made, as also clearly stated by Mandy informing you they tried the pausing mechanic and it failed. If you were actually serious about having these a thought through, you would notice the clear feedback I am providing on it. Yet as most of these post and showcasing my initial response was correct:

You don't want to be taken serious, you don't want a solution to your concerns, just the removal of the mechanics and be damned of the actual gameplay and balance that the game relies on to ensure both sides are played. It is to extremely lopsided and you don't care, as long as it removes camping and tunneling you are good even at the cost of having nobody to face I guess.