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Can you nerf Prove Thyself?
The perk is absolutely busted, and i see it nonstop in high rank games. Atleast 2 survivors are always using it.
The bonuses it gives are too high, 30% faster gen repair for being next to a survivor as the only requirement? That's like Reverse hex pentimento with no real condition to use it.
It's not even funny how fast gens get repaired because of it. This game is not going to last like this, please nerf the bonus from 15% to 5% which is appropriate.
Comments
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I thought all PTS did was compensate for the multi-survs on the same gen penalty?
Besides the bloodpoint bonus.
23 -
Make it not work with toolboxes
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What if I told you that Prove Thyself did the exact same thing it does now, when gens took 10 less seconds than they do now, and no one bat an eye?
37 -
Yeah it gets rid of the 15% penalty for each survivor on the same generator
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Pretty much. It barely helps and its just the exact same as it was pre patch. I've lurked on these forums for a while and I am convinced that while some complaints are justified, most do it just for the sake of complaining.
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Plan your builds based on what you want to counter. If this perk annoys you then you should equip Discordance.
I equip anti-healing builds when I want to interrupt healing as a strategy. I equip chasing builds when I feel like dominating chases. Others equip 4 anti gen perks to ensure they have plenty of time to catch survivors.
The game gives you tools but they will not be useful in every situation. It is a gamble.
6 -
Correct.
without prove thyself:
1 Survivor: 90 seconds
2 Survivors: 53 seconds
3 Survivors: 43 seconds
4 Survivors: 41 seconds
withprove thyself:
1 Survivor: 90 seconds
2 Survivors: 45 secoonds
3 Survivors: 30 seconds
4 Survivors: 22.5 seconds
It makes gens pretty damn fast, remember it takes about 30 seconds to walk from one side of the map to the other. After downing a survivor, picking them up and hooking them usually takes around 10-15 seconds.
6 -
It's usually when they have one bad game and need to blame something or someone other than themselves
4 -
Fix maps. Maps are the problem.
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I love how NO ONE batted an eye to PT when the perk was used pre-6.1.0 patch, but the moment that Survivors start to adapt and counter the enmass slowdown perks being used and the additional 10 seconds added to the gen, killers are getting annoyed and losing their MINDS to the fact that survivors are ACTUALLY doing the ONE thing that killers wanted them to do after getting their buff.... "Get Good. " AKA "ADAPT."
Here, I'll give you a tip so that you don't have to scream about this anymore and (GOD FORBID, BHVR ACTUALLY LISTENS TO THIS OR ANY KILLER COMPLAINING ABOUT THIS.) manages to get the perk nerfed, since it's LITERALLY the only thing saving Solo Q right now.
RUN. DISCORDANCE.
Seriously. it counters PT and forces survivors to work Solo, which makes the gens about 90 seconds....
Which lines up with this math.
14 -
That's not true. There were complaint threads about Prove Thyself before 6.1.0. It was just drowned out by the other complaint threads for perks seen all the time (AKA Dead Hard).
2 -
It goes like this.
As survivor, unless you're top MMR. If not, your escape chance is around 50%. After the patch you may die alot and drop MMR, when you go back to your 50% escape rate at it should be.
As killer, having a match of 3K isnt enough to be satisfied, then having a match of 1K is a lose. Despite having 50% kill rate, killers feel the game is survivor sided. After the patch its alot easier for them to 4K and increase MMR, which they feel good yes. Then they go back to their 50% after vs far better survivors. Many killers only consider 80% kill rate is balance, causing the complain.
I believe increase Gen to 160sec and after a month, average killers can have their MMR up to Ayrun level and they will still complain.
5 -
Survivors used it back then to slam gens, and they are now using it to slam gens. But people don't seem to realize that even with +10s gen repair time splitting up is STILL the most effective tactic available. Prove Thyself helps when the game comes down to the last 2 gens and the killer is in everyones business all the time, but on itself the perk is just performing as always.
OP, if you get outplayed by Prove Thyself a lot, then consider bringing Discordance along. Its sorta the hard counter to PTs and it often acts as a Lethal Persuer right at the start of the match, letting you jump right into the action and your first chase within 20s of starting.
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Discordance doesn't help when it fires on a gen on the other side of the map. Most maps can take literally 30+ seconds to walk over there. The problem is that only a handful of killers can actually do something about it in that situation.
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You are projecting quite a lot there, mate, and making an aweful lot of assumptions. Got any sort of "data" to back that claims up, or are they all anecdotal from your games and "the countless survivors I spoke two who all echo my own opinion!"?
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and make it not work if you aren't on the gen. Seriously, being able to sit next to someone on a solo gen and have the gen go by faster without you actually doing anything is also ridiculous.
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Umm no. Killers are still taking multiple slowdown perks we need something to counteract it
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I actually wouldn't mind if this was to happen. It is s bit ridiculous that you cam just stay near others to get the effect
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Because no one ever used it past noob rank. It has been a slept in perk until now, but with the increased use it will get a nerf probably because that is a strong percentage for the small requirements.
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That can happen but that is part of the gamble. I see medium-distance procs far more often than far unreachable ones.
As the match progresses and the gen pool gets smaller it will be even more useful assuming they have not figured out you have the perk yet. Many will keep doing it because of blood point greed even if they know you have Discordance.
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I never thought people would call for PTS nerfs. We got a lot from the last update, so don't take survivors one of the only counterplay away from them
3 -
Seriously?! We have killers stacking a TON of slowdown perks since they nerfed gen speeds and you guys want Prove Thyself nerfed??? This is the only thing that can help against these busted builds that killers are using. Get over it.
12 -
So with that logic most of the time gens would be done either way. 3 people without prove thyself is 43 and 30 seconds + 10-15 is about 43. And that’s assuming they started the gen as soon as the person got down which obviously wouldn’t be the case most of the time
1 -
Leave Prove Thyself alone. Scoring points as survivor is already a joke even with the category cap increase.
5 -
Is that ridiculous? First of all, how many solo gens are there on maps? And second, what does it knock like 12 seconds off if a survivor sits there and does nothing the whole time? Sounds like they're better served working on another gen, distracting the killer or going for a save.
If it's down to the last gen I'm pretty sure you want a 78 second solo PT gen rather than a 45 second two person PT gen.
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I am happy to look at Prove thyself, as soon as we first look at being able to running 4 regression perks.
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It doesn't work on yourself except for the bug going on right now. It only works for the other survivor by giving them 15% and it cancels out the negative of being together on the same gen. Its not busted and saying its 30% isn't correct. The person running it does not get the bonus AND it does NOT stack with others' who use PTS. So if 2 people both have PTS on the same gen, only 1 person will get the bonus. Not both.
3 -
Prove Thyself only cancels out (except not quite) the 15% coop penalty.
It's still more efficient to do gens separately than together.
You want survivors in the same place, if you nerf Prove Thyself, survivors split up. You can't defend multiple gens at once, suddenly 3 gens pop at the same time and you can't stop it.
From a killer main; Prove Thyself is not a problem.
And also 85% less efficient then just getting on a gen yourself!
5 -
Survivors are less complaining than the release day, most my games are pain as first and die alot. Thing is, my complaining were too afraid tunneling/camping are much stronger, not because die alot. Then slowly it goes back to normal vs killers who doesnt try hard. Just as killers said survivors go down to their correct MMR.
As the same time as killers feel powerful in the early weeks, then topics on complaining recently when their MMR increasing.
Just psychology explaining. Many killers here use everything for the 4K, yes, slug the 3rd guy for 4min to kill the 4th guy, they try that hard. They dont take 3K as winning, and those are who complaining alot as their MMR increased far exceed their skill.
My killer games are okay, some survivors can loops pretty good, and usually 2K. Certainly I can constant 4K if I use 4 slowdown and tunneling, but whats the point doing that? Increase my MMR to vs Ayrun then create posts on forum demands Gen time increase further, Crowd control basekit, Prove thyself nerf?
3 -
It never ends. Be grateful for what you just got like cmon
1 -
Survivors are running PT because surprise surprise, killers are still stacking gen regression and slowdown perks despite the buffs to both gen speeds and chase. I saw a lot of calls to adapt, and... this is adapting. PT helps make solo more livable in those games where nothing is getting finished.
It's no stronger than it was before - PT is very good in endgame, but not that dangerous to the killer in early-game because it runs counter to the dominant strat of survivor efficiency. If survivors stack early, you'll lose a gen at the start for sure, but you won't get the dreaded 3-gen pop on your first chase. Survivors that are grouped up are easier to pressure and blatantly open themselves up to 1v4 antics. If PT is killing you, run Discordance. Heck, many other info perks like Darkness Revealed, BBQ, Surveillance, and Thrilling Tremors will do a fair job keeping you posted on survivor activity if you hate the idea of switching your build. Pain Resonance and Eruption will also tell you if survivors are stacked on the same gen, though in PR's case, not which gen that is. But seriously, Discordance is the Prove Thyself buster and it's a great perk even when you're not going up against it.
8 -
I guess you are somewhat right: the patch brought a big shift in the MMR brackets of a lot of players; survivors who got hard carried before and still got easy escapes went down in MMR quite a bit, while a lot of killers got a surge of power ... before raising in MMR to face really competent survivors and am hitting a wall again.
This is basically what I am preaching for what feels forever: the game plays out radically different at Low/Mid and High MMR. While everyone assumes that they are high MMR, I am pretty sure that I regularly get up there, just because of my different experience from other players.
At lower-ish MMR killers were always the overpowering and undefeatable menace that we think off when we talk about a slasher film: they walk around and kill survivors, who got no counterplay, know not how to loop, how to hide, hide to evade and who might even be scared of the sounds the gen is making (literally jumping at shadows). Here the last patch was quite devestating and some casual players might feel like this is just a slaughter simulator.
At higher-ish MMR as short as 2 days after the patch dropped things basically went back to normal and after 3 days survivors were back to slamming gens like mad and looping like young gods. Games didn't feel miserable any more and more fair, mostly due to the erradication of DH, but also the general 10%, but honestly, at high MMR you just don't 3-4k every game, you face way to stiff competition for that, and if you want to do well a couple of games in a row you essentially have to play full sweat 110%. For me, thats just not worth the effort, but others apparently welcome the challenge.
That being said, here is the core of the problem: the low and high skill end of the game play out drastically different, yet BHVR applied the same blanket buffs and debuffs to all players. Maybe some survivor tactics and perks are a bit overtuned in high MMR gameplay, but they definitely aren't in mid-low. And some stuff that might feel a bit underpowered might be literally OP in the hand of skilled players.
What would be much healthier as all this talk about "nerf this" or "make this basekit" might be actual MMR bracket modifiers. This is a tough sale, though, as we all don't know our MMR numbers, but I think it would be much healthier to apply a few different number tweaks to different perks, or even the base killer abilities, at different MMR brackets instead of giving them to everyone and then realize that one end of the spectrum is happy with the change and even don't feel it that much anymore, while the other and is living in literally MMR hell.
I would also appy more restrictions, ie forbid certain perks on certain killers or restrict certain combinations. We could also talk about lowering the percentage the more players are running a certain perk or giving you less value out of individual slowdown perks the more of them you equip in your loadout.
1 -
This is very true. On low MMR prove thyself isnt as much of a problem as it is on high MMR at in my opinion. Low MMR people dont even know what prove thyself does and they hide half of the match instead of sitting on gens, but high MMR they know how to squeeze all the power out of that perk while good looper is keeping the killer busy. This is a problem in my games.
I play huntress mostly and as she is strong she is also weak. her map pressure is weak due to slowness and if im running after a survivor i have to make a choice..do i continue running after this survivor or do i go back to gens which will lose me the possible down. While im chasing this person usually i end up losing a gen unless the survivor screws up. If i have discordance i usually notice survivors use this situation and hop on a gen together with prove thyself ( if they have it ) and that gen will finish quite quickly. Even with discordance you can't always leave your chase to go shoo the survivors off the gen they are grouping on since you do have to get hooks and downs as well. Need to also meantion that if i see im against a god looper i usually end up leaving them and looking for a weaker link but leaving a survivor and finding another takes some time too + downing them which again gives more time for survivors to prove thyself a gen.
I think they need to fix the MMR system and what i find the biggest problem in this game is the maps. Some maps...well in my opinion most of the maps are very survivor based with good loops and houses which are horrible to deal with.
On high MMR and with good survivors you don't even notice that they added extra 10 seconds into the gens. Behaviour is also adding more gen speed perks which kinda nullifies the nerf they even gave to them.
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PT is the perk that saves you from that 3-gen you can't get out from.
Nerf it? Why... it does nothing magical - the buff is not exponential.
0 -
Adapt 😊
5 -
Prove saves you around 7, 10, or 13 seconds depending on how many survivors are on a gen. So two survivors stacking on a gen without Prove are only 7 seconds slower. A solo survivor with Prove still take a full 90 seconds on gen.
Resilience shaves off 7.5 seconds, down to 82.5 seconds.
Overzealous saves you a similar amount of time.
These perks are not really all that impactful. Toolboxes with Streetwise and Built to Last tend to delete gens a bit more efficiently, though. But the upcoming Hyperfocus perk needs to not work with toolboxes, since it lets you repair gens in 45 seconds. Only reason the change needs to happen is that toolboxes pretty double your skill checks, so you can get way more Hyperfocus stacks. Especially with Stakeout.
Imo, gen speed perks don't need a nerf. If losing 7 seconds on a gen now and again costs you the game, you are REALLY playing things by the wire.
2 -
Can they? Yes. Will they? No.
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Tons of eyes were batted back then, if you were paying attention.
1 -
Puts things into perspective when you compare this to Thanatophobia.
If they've changed Thanatophobia, they'll probably change this.
edit: bloody autocorrect
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I love when people say “it’s not that good”, yet we see the perk almost every single game now lol. It’s not that it magically got better, it’s just that most people weren’t running it. Now I see 2 survivors on average with it.
2 -
Your right it doesnt stack but it does work on yourself and every other survivor on the gen too.
0 -
That's... actually disgusting ngl
0 -
Cant wait for Prove Thyself to be nerfed because so many Killer Mains simply did not understand what the Perk actually does. They just see "Faster Gen Speed", especially because this is pushed by some vocal Content Creators, but Prove Thyself only removes the penalty the Survivors get from working on a Gen together.
If Prove Thyself is nerfed, more reason to split up on Gens, which is even worse for the Killer.
6 -
Technically it doesn't, it applies a multiplicative 15% bonus on top of the additive 15% penalty. Math wise that basically means it slightly is penalized at a lesser curve.
0 -
Sadly, I feel like with the gen time increasing to 90 seconds, in solo queue Prove Thyself has become a necessity. Otherwise good luck getting all 5 gens done.
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Yes because gens times were increased + killers are running another slowdown in place of BBQ.
Survivors could have been doing this before all these changes and yet they didn't, seems they swapped out one of their "second chance perks" to make gens slightly faster if multiple people are on it, you could say... they adapted to the changes.
1 -
Maybe they should just make a button that you can press that immediately gives you 4 kills.
3 -
I bet if they just gave us old WGLF back, you'd see a massive decline in Prove Thyself.
1 -
Found the killer main..
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I mean, I only ran one gen perk pre patch. Now everyone and their mother is running gen speed builds, so now I absolutely have to stack gen perks just to keep gens from getting done under a minute. It's all crazy fast, now...especially ad a ghostface main considering the extra time he needs to set up attacks.
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