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Balancing around bad killers is ruining the game
There is a lot of discussion about how killers have effortless winstreaks and all you have to do is watch Twitch or Youtube to find the evidence. This is why stats need to be looked at with caution.
Survivors don't have the winstreaks that experienced killer possess and I think this is bad for the game because it shows unfairness and most importantly a grossly unbalanced game.
Survivor is not as fun as it used to be because of too many nerfs and a lack of motivation and chance to win. This is because of balancing around bad killers. Circle of Healing, Dead Hard, Decisive Strike have been changed into killer sided perks and removes players agency from survivor.
Circle of Healing: A perk that takes away from doing the objective (to win) to setup a way to heal. It was nerfed so much that it was less worthwhile than using Self-Care. Self-Care is now nerfed so bad that both is not acceptable or most importantly fun to use. The ability to heal takes too much time, meanwhile it is easy for killer to continue with their objective. Good killers can capitalize with no way for survivors to overcome.
Decisive Strike: The survivor plays better than the killer for the entirety of the match but the survivor is punished for playing well and the perk is disabled, for bad killers. The nerf to 3 seconds also rewards bad killer gameplay. It is not fair killers have perks that guarantee their wins with endgame perks but survivors do not have any that helps them win. Killers can play badly at the endgame and survivor does not have a way to overcome it.
Dead Hard: Good killers knew how to play around old dead hard as evidence by watching killers play. Of course it sometimes, albeit rarely in specific scenarios extended the chase under very specific circumstances but shouldn't that what a perk does? Help you survive? The perk is now nerfed so killers do not have to think about the perk which is bad design. Killers do not need skill to down the survivor now because it is a simple M1 without thinking about what the survivor might do or try to dodge the hit. With less than a second of window of activation, the perk is unusable due to server latency. The new form is not fun to use, at the cost of balancing for bad killers.
Balancing so killer perks automatically reward the killer in so many ways with no downsides while survivor perks have too many downsides, too many deactivation conditions has caused the game to lose its fun factor for survivor side. This is why survivor is not as fun as it used to be because of lack of options. Experienced killers capitalize on these lacks of options for survivor to guarantee their wins. This causes survivors to have no hope in a majority of matches.
Comments
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The game has barely changed since 6.1.0, as it basically only consisted of QOL improvements
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Circle of Healing is still good.
DS definitely needs to go back to 5 seconds. Hell, I wouldn't mind if it worked on both hook states.
DH is actually a skillful perk now and it's BETTER against Nurse too
This update has been very painful for Solo Q players. Hopefully we get changes soon.
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balancing around bad survivors is ruining the game*
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Funny. The exact same argument could be made the other way round.
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That wouldn't make any sense though. The evidence is overwhelming they balance for very bad killers. There is zero evidence they do anything to help bad survivors, they are dead when the match starts.
I also forgot to mention Bloodlust was actually buffed, which rewards very bad killers and punishes good survivor gameplay.
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Yes sir. No game should require a professional SWAT team all with thousands of hours to have a chance to win. This is not even fun for either side. Survivors need incredible buffs.
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ah yes, they definitely dont add god loops and god pallets to every single map in the game.
they definitely didnt just remove thana and ruin
they definitely didnt nerf corrupt to punish killers for having a strong start
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COH is the most overrated perk in the whole game. The self heal speed is so slow and you actually need to go out of the way to go in the range of the boon to get value out of a small difference. With 90 second gens, it’s just a waste of time for the survivors.
Yeah it was QoL for camping and tunneling, making it way easier and more frustrating for the survivors to do so.
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You know what, I agree with some things.
DS needs buffed, 100%.
CoH is fine.
DH is fine.
I honestly think the game would be close to balanced, at least more than it currently is, if the BHVR decided to do anything against camping and tunelling. I'm not counting bandaid perks, even if it will help a bit. That and and a few general buffs to solo queue.
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Really why are God pallets in the game?
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Camping and tunneling only work when there is a weak link that is bad at the game.
The base-kit buffs Killers got were pure QOL improvements.
10 second on Generators mean basically nothing.
10% attack cooldown, Pallet breaking speed and Durvivor speed boost duration are barely noticeable.
The faster Bloodlust build-up only affects T2 and T3, at which point the Survivor wasted so much time the Killer will lose the game, if the Killer can even build up Bloodlust, as most Killers can't while using their Power
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Almost all good loops have been removed. Dead zones exists in a majority of matches. There is half the pallets there used to be. They slightly nerfed Thana but buffed Pain Resonance. Corrupt still does exactly what it did, delayed the beginning of the match which is insanely powerful.
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ironworks main building, moaning storehouse main building, suffo pit main building, cowshed is 1 big god loop, disturbed ward main building, haddonfield all 5 houses, pale rose big boat, grim pantry main building, badham 1 main building, house of pain, and 2 story house of pain, badham 2, 3, 4 and 5 have the same god loops, gideons as a whole, ormond main building, dead dawg main building, eyrie main building, garden of pain main building
corrupt now punishes the killer for getting a down, making it not worthwhile if you have even a little bit of confidence, thana now punishes the killer for getting a kill, and just doesnt slow down gens anymore, pain res is still weaker than on release pain res.
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Well that’s why people play Nurse or busted add on Blight with Deadlock. It is incredibly easy to tunnel a survivor out with them, no matter how good they are.
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Well good survivors could deal with ruin, yet here we are.
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Base-kit Nurse is pure mind-games. You die to her, she was simply better.
Same goes for base-kit Blight, but Blight with his best Add-Ons needs a huge nerf (same goes for Nurse with Range/3rd Blink)
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My guy, Circle counters entire killer playstyles and powers. It is essentially an infinite medkit for your team. The range of the boon is also bigger than you think
It is far from overrated.
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Then please tell me how to counter Nurse. All Nurse mains say the same exact thing when giving advice for counterplay, it’s to either “git gud” or “break LoS.” I’ve really tried to have an open mind about it but it’s a little hard when that’s all I get and not any actual advice.
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Absolutely second that, I was talking about it almost a year ago. BHVR tries to balance game so mediocre killers could compete top-notch survivors. Maybe better balance bad killers with bad survivors and pro-killers with swat-teams. At least by adjusting MMR, because bad killers rockets to high MMR and start crying there.
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nurse is in control in chase, your goal as survivor against her is to get her to mess up
break line of sight - she has to guess if she cant see you, leaving her 2 choices, predict you, or blink to the last point you were. the counterplay to this is switch up what you do, between waiting and baiting by watching what she does in a spot where you see her and she doesnt see you, or by holding w, based on what you think shell do. (wait and double back if you think shell predict and blink ahead, hold w if you think shes gonna go to where she last saw you for a better view.
be unpredictable - dont be predictably unpredictable, dont do one thing then another, then go on a cycle of this that this that. instead make yourself seem predictable by doing something 2-3 times, and then doing something else a few times. if she cant read you she cant get hits
in the open you can double back, or bait double backs, or just hold w, and she has to make a read
another great mindgame is looking oblivious by not checking behind you, instead using her extremely loud and obvious sound cues and making a read on her. looking behind doesnt really work against a good nurse anyway bc theyll flick to avoid showing you what theyre doing
theres a lot of counterplay, its just that the counterplay is not pallets and windows
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Yeah that's why the game is 4vs1 not 1vs1. Even m1 killer with nothing should win 1vs1 eventually.
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So it’s basically a bit like trying to get the Nurse to underestimate you a bit? Alright I’ll keep this in mind next time I see a Nurse in my game. Thank you!
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This will result nurse hitting and facecamping you. Every time I loop nurse or whatever is called they hit me on hook over and over and ofcourse headnod.
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its not so much her underestimating you, its you confusing her.
its like how killers will hide red stains, but the survivor is the one who does the mindgaming and the killer is the one who either falls for it or not
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If killers play well they still win on those maps regardless. Hopefully you are joking about Haddonfield, it is extremely killer sided with the lack of pallets and the entire middle is a deadzone, and many of the pallets are unsafe.
Although Corrupt disables, it has already done its job by delaying the match. Survivors have already wasted a lot of time looking for another gen.
The survivor perks were not nerfed this way, they were HARD nerfed or many more downsides added to them.
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I agree with the title, at least. The rest was very Sluzzy, so it is hard to endorse. But the general point is there, I suppose.
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Balancing around bad players is ruining the gane*
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Oh it's easy, just predict her predictions! (I'm kidding, of course)
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Balancing around players is ruining the game*
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Alright I see what you mean. Thanks again. Also I ain’t gonna lie the forums being bugged right now to where I don’t get notifications when someone replies to me is so annoying. I keep having to go to the thread to see if someone replied to me, hopefully the mods fix this.
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Glad you mentioned the problem with the forum. The notifications haven't been working for me for a while and was wondering about it
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Playing the game is ruining the game* lol
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In general, it is way more than 5%. Do look at the continuous winstreaks of killer mains and compare it to survivors usually losing.
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Balancing around bad survivors ruins game too
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Wraith nerf, Deathslinger nerf, Twins nerf, Pinhead nerf, Freddy nerf, Nemesis nerf, Trickster nerf.
I could probably go on
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Remember when Sluzzy was considered troll?
Now half of the forum is basically Sluzzy.
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sleezy sluzzy
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Which killers? I can’t think of any killers—not a single one—where survivors constantly healing is somehow worse for them than survivors actually just completing gens. Survivors really waste a lot of time healing when they should just be on generators—injured or not…
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Twins.
The only time you can really pop off with your power is if people are injured. When Boon: Circle of Healing, or hell, even Boon: Exponential is up, your power is basically useless and you have literally no pressure on survivors. It's one of the reasons why I run Shattered Hope on Twins, but even then, sometimes it doesnt help as much as Id like it to.
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Broken survivor things
Pallet vaccum
Instablind flashlights
Insta heals
Old dead hard
Old Circle of healing
Old Decisive strike
Old object of obsession
Old mettle of man
Infinites on every map
Perma break every hook on the map
Literally turn killer powers off
Survivor drop if stun/blind the killer at any part of the pickup animation
Killer stuff
Old undying
Old ruin
Machine gun unrelenting + stbfl
Yes clearly the most broken things have always been on the killer side
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Didnt Hens go on a 150+ winstreak? I mean their streak ended I believe but they are trying again to see how far they can push the streak.
Survivors are capable of going on long winstreaks, it's just insanely hard, and the same is said for the killer's end of things, long winstreaks are earned and fought for by both sides, not to mention that long winstreaks are stressful and you are bound to make mistakes, as a result that could lead to the streak ending leading to further stress.
It's not easy. It's not something to sit here and pretend like it's some cakewalk when it isnt.
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Any killer who relies on a hit and run playstyle will be insanely hindered by the presence of medkits, but Circle is an infinite medkit for all 4 survivors so it makes sense to say that people who play certain killers like Ghostface, Wraith, Sadako and play hit and run are countered by it.
It is really difficult to split pressure in any meaningful way when after you hit a survivor they can be healthy again faster than the time you invested in injuring them.
Also survivors constantly healing and being healthy counters many killers, especially m1 killers because committing to chases with healthy survivors can be a big time investment.
Here are some examples of killers who are hard countered by Circle (This applies to medkits too:)
Twins - Healthy survivors cannot be downed by Victor, he can also only damage 1 survivor at a time if everyone is healthy unlike when people are injured where he can tag multiple people for a snowball
Hag - Many hags play territorial so having a circle away from all of their traps lets survivors play extremely safe and not give her an easy snowball
Spirit - Being injured vs a decent Spirit is a death sentence. You want to be healthy as soon as possible whenever possible and CIrcle makes this easy.
Legion - Their whole power revolves around stall via mending and faster chases because people don't bother healing since it's a time sink but Circle lets people work on gens and heal themselves in basically no time at all
Blight/Nurse = These two killers can dish out health state damage extremely quickly and having multiple people injured vs them can easily result in a snowball
The stigma that healing is a waste of time no longer holds true in the current state of the game - You can forgo healing and focus on gens but then you will go down much faster which collectively buys your team less time in the long run. Before healing wasn't as needed because old DH acted as that second health state for the majority of survs (Going from it's 70% pick rate as proof here)
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These are indeed dark times.
Although tbf it was kinda always like this just the mob was mostly on twitter so outta sight mostly but they've seemed to have spread to on here as well.
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With a take on old DH like that your opinion means nothing to pretty much everyone. The only killer with real counterplay to old dh was blight and no being able to wait out dh in a 10 by 10m dead zone isn't counterplay.
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Dude, COH is definitely one of the best survivor perks in the game, I see it almost every game playing as survivor or killer. Even with all the nerfs.
Dead Hard was too OP and very unhealthy for the game, and even with the nerfs is still a very good and fun perk, it requires skill and when you pull out a dead hard it feels awesome
DS I think that was fine
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Balancing is ruining the game*
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except if you have played this game for any length of time, youd know they do balance for killers to be happy, killers whined about ds being overpowered multiple dlcs, and it was nerfed multiple times, killers complained (and rightfully so i might add) about infinites, and devs created blood lust as a BAND-AID fix that was meant to be REMOVED after they fixed infinites, they have now fixed infinites, but what have they done with bloodlust? reduced the amount of time it takes to get to each tier
doesnt stop there either, there were instances where 1) they fixed camping intentionally by making it so if the killers stayed near the hook, a certain number of meters, their progress bar would stop, but killers were outraged, so the devs claimed it was a "bug" instead of a feature, walking back their intended design, which, not wanting to throw away an idea/coding, they turned it into a perk, and it became steves perk comradery (now called kinship),
2) they fixed huntress hitbox detection on her hatchets (because lets be real, huntress gets some hits with the hatchets that they shouldnt because of latency) and that made it so killers that were use to these broken hitboxes could no longer get these hits that they shouldnt of been getting to begin with, and again they were upset, so it was called a bug or whatever and reverted
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Seems sluzzy want all maps like gideon
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But balancing around your survivor skill level is also a very terrible Idea. 😉
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Looping is still strong, dropping pallets and running away is still strong, CoH is still strong, and Dead Hard is still strong - you just have to time DH better.
DS, yes, it's pretty weak, but all your other complaints? Nah. Good killers and survivors do winstreaks, and the fact that you haven't found survivor winstreaks goes to show you're not even looking for them.
The game not being a bully-fest any more is healthy. Learn to play smarter and you'll win plenty of games still.
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