Nerf The Nurse

Title. No discussion needed.

Comments

  • mizark3
    mizark3 Member Posts: 2,253

    I would say it is essentially self evident, and not needed. However for the sake of anyone unaware, they just nerfed PTB Awakened Awareness (to lose the lingering 2s aura aspect) for no reason other than Starstruck Nurse. Instead of fixing nurse to make her Blink attacks Special attacks as opposed to Basic, they nerfed a perk for everyone else instead. This is a consistent problem for the now 28 other killers and they refuse to fix the one excessive problem killer.

  • ThatOneDemoPlayer
    ThatOneDemoPlayer Member Posts: 5,623

    AA wasn't good on Nurse.

    It's not self-evident. If you can't prove Nurse is overpowered, Nurse isn't overpowered

  • Saitamfed
    Saitamfed Member Posts: 1,620

    What about "learn to play against nurse" instead?

  • Gandor
    Gandor Member Posts: 4,258

    Nurse is WAAAAAAAY too much overpowered. You don't see it because you play her against survivors that have high multiples of your hours in game. Give me a proof she is OK because aparently everyone but nurse mains know she is OP

  • ThatOneDemoPlayer
    ThatOneDemoPlayer Member Posts: 5,623
    edited August 2022
    1. I don't play Nurse
    2. Watch any competent Nurse player play against equally skilled opponents that also want to win. She gets an average of 2 Sacrifices
  • RaSavage42
    RaSavage42 Member Posts: 5,549

    OK... so let's say they do nerf the Nurse

    What's next... Spirit, Blight, Perks, basekit

  • SuzuKR
    SuzuKR Member Posts: 3,910
    edited August 2022
  • mizark3
    mizark3 Member Posts: 2,253

    To address point one, I recommend you take a day and only play her, she is super easy to get consistent results with after the initial learning curve of Blink Charge duration to distance ratio and movement speed during blinks. If you need to I would even use the training wheels add-on Plaid Flannel, as you no longer need to learn that aspect and can simply use the mechanics.

    To address point two, I ask do you think the game has actually accurate matchmaking? I understand you can use the example of tournaments for equally skilled opponents, but most matches the players are not really close to being equally skilled. Also if I have 1 survivor doing a gamethrowing tome (hide 90s near the killer), 1 survivor going for Head-On Flashbang/Flashlight plays, 1 survivor playing the game normally and the last survivor doing a normal tome like escape as X, I simply win that match as killer.

    I ask you what evidence do you believe is needed to prove a killer is overpowered? I wouldn't agree with kill rates as the only factor personally. I think playing the killer to understand their weaknesses (or lack thereof) is the best evidence, but I can't force you to play the game in that manner.

  • ThatOneDemoPlayer
    ThatOneDemoPlayer Member Posts: 5,623

    So your problem is with the SBMM, not Nurse.

    Why does everyone complain about Nurse when the true issue is SBMM?

  • mizark3
    mizark3 Member Posts: 2,253
    edited August 2022

    I feel like you are dodging a lot of issues here. First you didn't address my first counterpoint at all, secondly you didn't answer my question what evidence do you need a killer is OP.

    Also a few problem killers are a lot easier to fix than MM. I can come up with solutions to fix MMR also, but the pressing issue is Nurse limiting perk design for every other killer, which is the discussion at hand.

    Edit: Also I would ask why you believe Awakened Awareness wasn't good on a Nurse, using Starstruck or not? The max Blink Range is 20m basekit, which was the exact same range of the aura read.

  • ByeByeQ
    ByeByeQ Member Posts: 1,104

    Same tired old argument.

    If a good Nurse catches and you have nothing to break line of sight with, you're pooched. Even if you know how to play against her.

    While this can be true for more killers than just Nurse, the Nurse can consistently get that hit and get that down faster than any other killer.

  • ThatOneDemoPlayer
    ThatOneDemoPlayer Member Posts: 5,623

    you didn't answer my question what evidence do you need a killer is OP.

    If a Killer is able to win against higher skilled opponents that are running the best Perks/Items/Add-Ons possible. That's what makes a Killer OP.


    2.5/3.5s fatigue/2.7s cooldown + 3s pickup = 22/26/22.8m a Survivor starting literally right beside the Killer can run away before the pickup even finishes. As in, out of the 20m.

    Not my math, it's @SuzuKR

  • ByeByeQ
    ByeByeQ Member Posts: 1,104

    Most of that math isn't applicable. The important part is the 3s pickup. At that point the the Claudette hiding in the bush realizes the Nurse has Starstruck. "Oh #########, I better not get seen." The she sees the Nurse drop. At that point she (hopefully) starts running and the Nurse can still blink right on top of her.

    The Nurse usually only has to do this once to win the game too. At this point she has her snowball halfway down the hill.

  • mizark3
    mizark3 Member Posts: 2,253

    I would argue that bar for "OP" is too high to cross using your definition, so I can see there is no point is discussing killer balance with you given you have that logic in mind. What you call OP I would have called a broken unplayable game. I would define OP as overpowered, as in having access to an excess of tools (or the relative strength of those tools) without sufficient drawbacks to counterbalance, in relation to the median or mean effectiveness of the roster.

    As far as the math post that is disingenuous for actual gameplay scenarios. If someone is adjacent to the Nurse when she picks up with Starstuck then she will immediately drop, Blink, and get a snowball 2nd (or more) down. If they were adjacent to the Nurse when she downed the 1st survivor she can still chase and catch up to them to snowball the 2nd down regardless. The greater strength of Awakened Awareness as compared to Infectious Fright is Aura Reads are typically unknown to the survivor until it is too late. Also if a Nurse happens to walk by a gen being progressed on the way to hook and sees their aura Starstruck or no she can snowball the circumstance far too easily. It sounds like the solution is if a Nurse is in the match you are required to hold W in the opposite direction of her until you no longer hear the terror radius and keep running further. That logic fails to hold up to make the game remotely fair or fun.

    I can use disingenuous math as well. Nurse is OP because she is an average of a 4.8 m/s killer. After a 2 second fatigue from blink, she needs to wait 1s to regain the lost blink charge. After regaining the blink charge she charges the blink for 2s, then blinks over the course of 1.5s traversing her max blink range. Rinse and repeat for the average travel speed. To account for human error I would round down to the nearest tens place decimal point. (.96*2[fatigue 2s]+3.85[walk 1s]+2.89*2[charge walk speed 2s]+13.33*1.5 [blink speed over 1.5s])/6.5[to average the speed]) =4.85 cut to 4.8. This fails to account for losing max blink distance due to map geometry, but also fails to account for gaining distance going through walls as opposed to around. Even though that would be a net gain for the Nurse, I'll say it breaks even for sake of argument.

  • YOURFRIEND
    YOURFRIEND Member Posts: 3,389

    Second blink attack should be a special attack. Stuns should deplete all blink charges. Lower base blink range by a small amount.

  • Elan
    Elan Member Posts: 83
    edited August 2022

    There are three major issues that make Nurse too strong and uncounterable - no, line of sight is not a counterplay.

    1) Exposed perks working on blink attacks - solution: Make blinks a special attack.

    2) Aura reading - solution: Auras are no longer visible when charging blinks or being fatiqued.

    3) Recharge and range add ons - solution: range add ons increases recharge rate, recharge add ons now work only on successfull hits.

    Those changes would still make her very strong and probably still top 1 killer, but will make playing against her less frustrating and maybe at least a little bit fair.

  • Saitamfed
    Saitamfed Member Posts: 1,620

    First, if you're caught in a dead zone, then we can complain how Slinger or Huntress can take advantage of it, even Spirit... Second, she can only blink so far and she's going to always be in a straight line... there you have, a good counter to her blinking skills.... repeat until you have reached a place where you can break LoS... If you, got caught in a dead zone and you don't know how to survive until you're out in a "safer zone" then that's up to you being unable to learn a little strategy.

  • Saitamfed
    Saitamfed Member Posts: 1,620

    1- Exposed perks have always been strong, if she has startruck then just don't mess with her on her TR... What about that?

    Blinking being special won't count as she NEEDS to blink to get an attack, the difference between other killers and her, it's that other killer's special attacks can be switched with the main attack if they want to but Nurse can not do so because she's slower than any survivor.

    2- Nurse relies heavily in knowing where you're at, there are perks like Distortion who can help if you don't want your aura to be read and BUM, no need to deal with Nurse's or I'm all Ears so you make her having two less perks for the remainder of the trial and if she has BBQ... another useless perk on her basekit.

    3- The recharge add-ons used to increase charge rate, not sure why did they change that so you have a point there... for the last part, I don't agree... whether it might sounds like rewarding, they will need to increase the recharge rate as it's not THAT incredible to start with, to compensate for the fact that you really need to nail it and then y'all would complain again.

  • ByeByeQ
    ByeByeQ Member Posts: 1,104

    *yawn* You're just trotting out that old "get good against her" argument. It all depends on how good the Nurse is and not really how good the survivor is. If she's good enough and you're caught out, you can make it harder for her but most often you're still just pooched.

    In the open vs Nurse is basically anywhere you can't break LoS with her. You can't complain about Huntress and Slinger because many of these spots have low obstacles a survivor can take cover from projectiles behind. They can't take cover when the projectile is the Nurse and she can blink through stuff.