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The (should be) "Final" 'Nerf Nurse' Thread
It's far from final, but now it can be. People defend nurse on the forums and always make it as if people's opinions don't matter because "do you even play nurse", "show me your gameplay" etc. and say the new Wesker perk wouldn't be broken on nurse because x and x. But now, a streamer with a bit under 400 wins in a row with Nurse made a video saying how busted she, even after the add-on nerfs, so I don't think this topic can be questioned anymore, because if anyone has the right to an overruling opinion, it's him.
Other than admitting that his main is OP, and that she keeps the game from being in a healthier state regarding balance of other perks he gives some suggestions for nerfing her:
- Make her first blink a basic attack, but second and third blinks special so they don't proc exposed and other effects.
- Disable aura reading while charging her blink, so that the already not super strong perk can be reverted after being nerfed pretty much only because of this one killer.
An argument I imagine could show up is "that's just top of the top gameplay, nurse is hard to play", she really isn't. Only thing she requires is learning the blink range/position, which is made void by her common addon that shows the blink location.
Comments
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Uh oh.
You've said the forbidden words, and summoned them.
The Nurse defenders are coming now.
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Not a fan of his content myself but he's the person people never shut up about with regards to Nurse
Mind explaining your point a bit further
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Dont touch mah baby girl :C
She is precious. She is sweet. She deserves all these op synergies. You dont understand, its fair because she is slower than survivors.
Uhhhhhh, she is also a medical personal and helps people so she needs those?
Am i getting to you?
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I'd include the addon White Nit Comb to her basekit, decreasing the lunge range by 50%.
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Thanks for posting this.
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second blink should be 2-5 metres max
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I saw a great Nurse rework idea on a Reddit thread the other day:
"Keep 2 blink tokens but make blink attacks consume a token, so she can either do 2 blinks to travel or blink + attack. Shorten blink range to 16 meters, increase recharge time to 4 seconds per token. Blinks are now special attacks so no more Exposed BS. 110% movement speed to compensate and make her in line with other killers."
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You mean one of the best Nurse players went on a streak using some of Nurse's best Perks and Add-Ons in pubs, against Survivors that don't even know how to look behind them? No wonder he thinks she's op
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This is what passes for an argument these days? Try disputing what the video shows by using a logical argument like the presenter makes.
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you think she's not good....?
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I made a bit of an understatement
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Lol
Why do people think taking away the 2nd blink is in any way reasonable.
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Take Overwatch's SR system as an example. Top 500, GM, Master, etc. The system assigns a skill rating from 1-4000+ and breaks down the rankings within that. Most ranked OW games I've ever played maybe had a difference of 1000 SR tops if the lobby was screwy. I've seen Gold in a mostly Bronze game.
Now take DbD for example: a fresh account is 900 MMR. The soft cap used for matchmaking is 1700 as far as we know. Matchmaking looks for a "close match" and expands to +/-350, again, as far as we know.
Someone like Alf who could very likely be a top 500 player is well within matchmaking range of any mid skill level DbD player by design. It doesn't matter if his reall MMR is 4000. It's 1700 as soon as he searches for a match.
So why is Alf or any top tier player hard to gauge balance from? They are so exceedingly unlikely to ever face 4 survivors of their own caliber. And even if it does happen, nobody in that match knows that it's about to happen except for maybe the killer.
I know Alf and have had good convos with him. Our teams scrimmed each other, etc. I probably agree with a lot of what he says, but I haven't watched the video. I'm just saying this more in a general sense.
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It will never be.
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That's true in a general sense for sure, I was just curious why the person I quoted responded like that.
I don't know the guy nor watch his content so, apart from the video OP posted (Which despite me not really liking his content I agree with most of his points overall.) I don't really have a frame of reference why his points would be any less valid than the rest of us.
Side note unrelated to Alf - It honestly bothers me how some high level DBD players have such egos and think they know everything about balance and scoff at changes BHVR make, just because they've dedicated thousands of hours to playing.
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She’s amazing against pubs because they don’t understand the mindgames (enter the huge winning streaks). The game should not be balanced around inexperienced players though.
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300 plus wins consecutively tho? What’s your win streak?
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Again, it's not an achievement for Alf to go on such a huge win streak against pub Survivors
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Don’t speak for ANYONE else. Supaalf already said his nurse would be beaten but any good comp team. He is comp level.
But at this point I don’t care anymore. You guys are bad, won’t improve and keep whining and asking for nerfs. Now nurse, but tomorrow blight, then the next best killer atm.
There is not discussion here.
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Personally I don't have a lot of time played on Nurse but I do understand her power (To an extant)
Yes her range is one thing but the other is her Blink Attacks counts as basic
So those 2 things be what I would think about
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I dunno if there are any non-drastic options for bringing Nurse in-line with other killers. Can't really balance her to any realistic degree if she remains this special, different island entirely unto herself.
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What if i slide you this 100k BP to sweeten the deal?
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But such a vast amount would upset the precious BP economy!
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I can think of a few nerfs she needs. Her blink attacks should be special attacks, this instantly removes problematic combos like starstuck and also lets bhvr unnerf awakened awareness. Also give her the freddy add on treatment, they should all be meme add ons or extremely minor changes, like blindness or obliviousness or something. Finally let survivors stun her during a blink with pallets, if they time it well she absolutely should get the pallet stun + her own stun comboed together.
With these simple changes I think Nurse would be in a much better place, still the strongest by nature of her power but far harder to play and no means of making her easier to play. Nurse should be extremely hard to play like she use to, currently i find her to easy to play due to the nature of the changes they gave her and how busted her add ons are.
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Her basekit is perfectly fine. It is literally why good survivors against equally good Nurses do fine.
Range/3 blink is unhealthy design and need full reworks (change achievement to 2 blinks into grab so 3 blink effect can be removed entirely).
Recharge is strong but fine, and even necessary at ultra high levels of play (not that this matters to the majority of players).
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I wish her blink functioned differently and she was a 110% movespeed killer. I think the problems she has will continue to exist even if you hid the auras of survivors during blink charge and made it so only her first blink counted as a normal attack. I also think making both attacks special is bad as nurse would get zero value out of those perks forever which feels lame. I can't think of a good way to change her power and make her 110 that isn't awful though
That said this is about the equivalent of using the hardcore survivor challenge as proof killers are in dire need of buffs due to a hardcore swf stomping multiple killers back to back to back.
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Killers that change the standard chase formula is a good thing. It keeps game design from being stale. There need to be more killers that alter fundamental mechanics of chase.
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Survivor Mains won't be happy with any Nurse changes unless they make her fall in line with the other killers in regards to the games fundamental mechanics, i.e. her ability to ignore loops and pallets would have to be changed so that she no longer could.
Nurse's Ultra Rare Torn Bookmark add-on used to grant her 3 blinks, but with the caveat that she could only blink to places within her line of sight, so no more blinking through walls, floors, or pallets unless she could target a spot immediately beyond them. This add-on was changed to simply granting her the 3 blinks, but it seems to me that this previous version is how survivors want Nurse to play base kit.
2 blinks, but can't go through objects anymore unless she can see beyond them would suffice to satisfy most survivors as a change, but it wouldn't be enough since she still outright ignores pallets. In order to make her fall in line with pallets, the only thing the devs could do is change it so that whenever she is blinking through a pallets path, the blink can be interrupted and the Nurse stunned if the survivor slams the pallet while she's blinking.
Add in a much shorter timing (like instant-0.2 seconds instead of the current 1 second) for Lightburning her while she charges a blink, and especially while she's blinking so survivors can stun/blind her if they're quick enough with a flashlight/flashbang, make all blink attacks "Special" and not basic, nerf her range add-ons further by dropping their distance, and Finally change the torn bookmark to allow her to blink through objects again, but doing so slows down how fast she blinks. Only then, I Believe... survivors will finally be "happy" when going against the Nurse (I use "happy" loosely).
Lets not kid ourselves though... Survivors will still ######### and moan about the fact that she can catch up to them quickly no matter what, and still call you a trash killer for playing as her no matter how hard the devs gut her kit.
TL;DR:
Survivors primary hatred for Nurse stems from her ability to ignore the game mechanics that survivors use to defend themselves.
Suggested changes:
2 blinks but can't blink through objects she can't see any ground past (no more popping through walls, floors etc) = LoS Blockers can counter her now.
Nurse is stunned by pallets dropped in her blink path any time its dropped during a blink = Pallets can stun her more easily.
Lightburning Nurse with a flashlight/flashbang can occur anytime during her charging or blinking, at almost instant timing compared to how it is now, and will blind and stun her out of it = Flashlights and Flashbangs are now more useful tools for escaping her.
Blink attacks count as Special attacks and not basic = No more insta downing exposed survivors with blink attacks.
Drop ranged addons full range by 2 meters per add-on resulting in a total loss of 4 meters when both are combined (down from 10)= No more Traversing half of the map with 2 blinks.
Change (UR) Torn Bookmark add-on to no longer provide a third blink, and instead restore her ability to blink through objects again, albeit slower than blinking through open space. = UR changes her playstyle, but makes her blinking more counterable by giving survivors more time to create distance or react to her blink destination and pull a 180 to avoid taking a hit.
Would this Enrage the killer mains? Hell yes. Would it satisfy the Survivor mains? Possibly. Would survivor mains still whine about going against her after this change? Definitely. Is this suggestion pointless? I'll let you guys debate it.
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Lets be real, calls for Nurse Nerfs won't stop until she's loopable. Then survivors will move on to the next thing they find "unfun" or "Boring to play against". So the blight will definitely be next on the chopping block
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Let's see ...
The guy has an insane amount of experience on her, so he tends to see stuff from his perspective (it's basically a corollary of Dunning-Kruger). On another hand, he seemed to have discovered the concept trigonometry only recently so maybe I'm overestimating him ... (he had a recent video about this where he seemed genuinely amazed by the effects of blinking upward, but I don't know if it was true or only for show)
The guy does his streaks with the add-ons that almost everyone said were busted (and are rightly fixed in the next patch) but told he was using it "to show it was broken" (as if it was needed, especially given the difference of experience with his usual opponents). On another hand, he has used stretched resolution "because it's easier on the eyes" too, so, yeah ...
Also, something that's true for him and any streamers: it's a business.
The explanation from @SuzuKR about why AA wasn't an issue seemed reasonable. I'm guessing once players would have been used to it, it would have been pretty weak (as Starstruck is against good teams). Thankfully the devs have statistics and keep monitoring the perks and addons, so they'll keep tuning everything.
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Nice one @threeQuinn.
If such an epic Nurse main is calling for her to be nerfed, it should carry some weight.
I also agree with those changes.
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Tbh they won't rest until all are as weak as Trapper and I actually saw that as a reason when I first joined the forums. But using a professional streamer as a example is bad form because a professional streamer will have at least x3 the amount of playtime than your average gamer.
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One opinion from one nurse main because they have a number on their screen next to the phrase win streak, well I'm sold where do I sign
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Longer recharge time- Survivors would get more value out of plays that make her miss, and lower her impressive mobility, when her chase is already incredible.
Not to mention, killers with weaker powers can have almost triple Nurse's recharge time.
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I play nurse, and watched that video. Both great suggestions and would make the game better
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Could you explain why that's a problem? If someone mains a character with near 400 wins in a row is saying that the character deserves to be nerfed, I'd say that holds weight.
I see your point but can you show me someone else with anywhere near that many wins on another killer? Best I can think of is Otzdarva with 100 Plague wins, but that was before MMR. As for the comment that the survivors are bad, everyone occasionally comes across a god squad, and you're telling me he never did?
And he still went and made a video saying to nerf her. He understands that she is not fair and okay for the game.
Um, it's not one opinion from one nurse main. People are constantly saying to nerf nurse, but are always met with the same responses "you don't even play nurse" "show us your gameplay" "you probably suck". I used Alf as an example of someone who holds the most weight so people stop making the same replies.
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He is doing this for content. Youtube money bestie. Good nurses are rare in this game, as a macro balancing perspective, that’s not an issue.
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Any proof?
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Are you for real ? Everybody is complaining about nurse, Otz made a video about it for views too, and now him. Watch every other streamers and youtuber talk about her now.
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Love how you call us bad but you’re the same person that said Nurse was weak unless she has those broken add ons.
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Just a thing about the playing Nurse. You seem to misunderstand it. The suggestion to play Nurse is to learn how to verse her more easily. The gameplay requests are to be able to point out mistakes. Alf may hold "weight" for you and some, but he is only a content creator and an extreme case. Worth : none.
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Using the very best as the standard is a bad idea. That's like say because an NFL QB can throw 40 yrs your average person can do the same.
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I agree with the logic for the most part yeah.
Although it's a tiny bit ironic, a bunch of people on the forums tend to gatekeep opinions about nurse a lot. They say stuff like
"Oh you think that because you're probably bad/don't know how to play against Nurse"
"You've probably never played Nurse."
"Post you 4king as Nurse under these circumstances..." etc
And so on.
Not saying that's you btw, just some people I've seen frequent the Nurse threads.
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She's definitely problematic. I don't understand why they won't make her blink a basic attack it would solve a huge chunk of her problems. I really don't want her changed to much because I like the idea of changing up the gameplay loop.
I think alot of people defend her because she is on of the few killers in game where your skills directly translate plus she's the strongest.
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He didn't go far enough with the exposed perk nerf, which is understandable since he's a nurse main with a 380+ win streak that uses Agitation and Starstruck (not to mention the most OP build on her) every game.
A killer as strong and as gamebreaking as the nurse shouldn't be able to use exposed perks with her ability - full stop.
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Everyone has always complained about nurse. The complaints increased since they buffed her by making it so she doesn't go into fatigue after being stunned, and since talks started with the add-on nerfs. Also as someone said Alf's been doing this streak with add-ons to show how broken she is. So yes, where is proof that he is going to get the devs to nerf his main, potentially to the point where he can't keep racking up win streaks, just for a bit of views lol
It's not a standard tho. It's an example of someone holding weight to their words as I've said before. Every nurse I come across is at least decent and destroys my teams, and in most cases 50% or more of my games are against nurse, which next to dc's and first hook suiciders had me play the game a lot, a lot less.
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nurse only really needs some addons toned down but otherwise is fine, its mostly just players who are bad or adopted bad habits from the other 26 killers that puts them in a bad gameplay loop against nurse that is to blame for most of the frustration
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The majority of Nurse mains I see agree that range addons should go and her blinks should be special attack. The aura nerf would hurt my favorite build on her (Floods of Rage + BBQ + Lethal) but I can adapt to it. What people complain about is ######### ideas for rework like "having to collect blood like Oni" or "110 and can't blink through objects", there's nothing wrong with Nurse's basekit.
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Nah there is plenty to talk about "certain killers" tho I really like the design of "certain killers"
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Disable scratch marks when charging the blink until end of fatigue
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