Ways to address camping
Hey everyone,
I already posted this in another discussion but it got lost among other answers and I would really like to have a constructive discussion about this changes I thought about.
So here are my suggestions and to be clear I do not think they should all stack together.
I think on one side, camping should punish the killer:
- By making the rate at which the survivor goes to stage 1 to stage 2 slower depending on how close the killer is from the hook. Some sort of base-kit reassurance.
- Face camping in a 6 meters area could even be punished by providing a mini kindred to the survivors as a base-kit, showing the killer in around a 5 meters area.
- It could also blind the killer from all aura reading perks or add-ons after a few seconds standing near the hook.
- Grabing a survivor while unhooking another should not cause the survivor to be in the dying state when dropped after so the killer is not able to slug and face camp. When dropped, they would fall on the ground and get up directly but injured while they have an endurance effect and/or a haste effect that apply to them for a few seconds. This way the killer is forced to hook this survivor or to let the survivor go.
- Losing BPs after a certain amount of time spent near the hook (as you lose points for the chaser emblem after 10 seconds) and having a big minus of BPs when near the hook when the hook stage changes and this amount of BP lost would go up for each hook stage switch while you are face camping the survivor.
On the other side, survivors should be somehow rewarded in BPs or/and have more ways to counter it or inform others about it:
- On the first hook stage, as the game love so much skill checks, you could actually have a classic skill check with a great skill check area that would reveal the killer in a more or less 10 meters area around the hook each time you hit a great skill check for around 3 seconds that survivors outside of 30 meters of the hook could see.
- Chances of unhooking yourself should augment overtime if the killer is nearby allowing for example at the very last seconds of stage 1 a 30% unhook chance and then a buffed endurance of around 8 seconds if so.
- A screaming sound of terror could be also added when the killer is close to the hook that every other survivor could listen in all the map, so they know they have to go together for the unhook or decide to work on gen instead. This could only activate and be used by the survivor on hook for each 8 seconds where the killer stayed in a 10 meters area around the hook (going in and out of the area would stop and start the timer again). It could also altered the killer vision or audio or even cancel the possibility to grab the survivor unhooking you when timed correctly.
- Gaining BPs and survival points for each second spent with your lovely face camping killer in order to at least compensate the non fun of the situation and the risk of losing a pip.
What do you think about these suggestions? Of course they should probably not be applied all at once, it is more ideas here and there.
Comments
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Before MMR it was BBQ & Chili. Now that doesn't have as much appeal as it used to. If the killer doesn't have insidious, if they're within 16 meters of the hook the crows should start circling and giving the same noise notification that killers get. After 20 seconds of that, start the point loss counter. If they get a kill from that, it should be treated like a player disconnecting from a few years ago where it doesn't count for anything. The killer would be playing for nothing and wasting their own time.
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- I would also still insidious plays happen.
- Crows are also a solution to inform
- Why not 10 seconds when it is already how points for the chaser emblem work?
"-3 points: deducted each second you are within moderate proximity (16 metres) to a hooked Survivor (only applied after 10 seconds)
-7.5 points: deducted each second you are within extreme proximity (8 metres) to a hooked Survivor (only applied after 10 seconds)"
- I like the idea of considering the kill as a player disconnecting but it penalizes only the killer and does not compensate anything for the survivor.
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I'd like to add to make sure it's fair, if the survivors are inside the gate when they're open, the same point deduction should apply when not in a chase. I also hate it when they sit there waiting.
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This is another issue then. I would also like to know what do you think about what I suggest. The idea of this discussion was more to expose these ideas and to expend the discussion from it, rather than everyone makes their own suggestion from scratch. This way it is more a discussion than a list of suggestions.
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They need to incentivize not Camping first... And not perks AKA band-aid fixes
I do agree that BP loss should be increased (but it wouldn't matter to those whom decide to Camp from the start)
I think they did all they could to help Survivors out but now it's time for Killers to get help (to not Camp)
- I can get behind that
- I think that base kit Kindred should be a thing... not for Camping but for Solo's
- Why just a few seconds... if the Killer wants to Camp then they should lose aura reading till they move out (16M) range
- I can agree with that
- Ok... so I thought about it for like 2-3 minutes... and the best thing I can think of is give Killers a 3 second "grace period" any longer and they will lose 100BP per second (if not in chase)... I think making it a flat loss will make some Killer think twice about camping
But then again Endgame all bets are off... cause:
- there are no Gens to defend
- The doors need to be opened
- I can't stand when Survivors stand and teabag in the exit gates
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1/3/4 on first part are too abusable.
2, and 3’s effect on the killer on second part is too abusable.
BHVR has already tested ideas including multiple of these ones and scrapped them for abusability. There are two types of people that camp. One is people that use it as a strategy. The other is people who don’t care. You will never ever make this second group not camp. You could do every single nerf and they’d still camp. Why? Cause they don’t care if it’s good or not in the first place.
Giving survivors more Bloodpoints and whatever is a great idea though.
So then what can be done? Well, the first group does it for strategic value. So give buffs for leaving and staying out of hook distance basekit to incentivize leaving hook. As a theoretical example, basekit temporary time-limited stronger-Ruin. Then this rewards pushing other survivors off gens but only after they leave the hook area and stay out of the hook area (unless a chase leads them back into it). If there’s no incentive to be pressured to camp for strategic value because it’s more rewarding to not, the first group will naturally camp less.
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On point 3, you read me wrong, I just said that aura reading is lost after a few seconds standing in the area, so it does not canceled the effect of perks like Barbecue & Chili but let sometime for the killer to get out of the area. And yeah once they go out of a certain area after caming or being too near from the hook, the aura reading abilities are then restored.
On point 5, it cannot be after only 3 seconds because it is too short to get out of the area and if you have an actual survivor near the hook while hooking, you cannot just ignore this survivor, this will be stupid. If you have to chase the survivor around the hook because there is a jungle gym or a pallet, the killer would have to go out of the area when the survivor is just throwing the game by staying in the area. I think the 10 seconds system for emblem points loss that has already the game for camping could be still used.
I can only agree for endgame, no one should be mad at the killer to camp a survivor while the end game collapse or after the last gen popped and as long as there are 2 survivors left except for the one on the hook, you can always try to go for a save which can be quite enjoyable if you can get it. I don't see the issue with survivors waiting at the exit gate, it can get both survivors and killer extra points, allows killer to do some endgame plays eventually (playing with Deathslinger or using blood warden for example) or train your hatchet skills and more. The only issue is tea bagging and toxicity in general.
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Can you give me an example for the point 4 for killer that would be abusable? Same for the point 2 and 3 on the survivor side because they are ideas to give a counterplay to the survivor on hook that have really nothing to do but to look around.
I understand that people that want to camp will camp, hopefully the major lost of BPs could still discourage some of them but about an incentive not to camp, there is already not losing more gens. Maybe with more informations on the survivor side, the survivor can handle better the situation and with time it could discourage the first group. But I see what you mean.
I really like the idea of a counterplay for the person on hook, so they can feel they are contributing to allow their save. I really hope we can see something that goes this direction at some point.
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First... thanks for telling me what you meant (seriously)
Second... On point 3, Will do
Third... On point 5, So how's 5 seconds
And finally... on the endgame I said that cause I read on another thread that Camping and Tunneling during the endgame is (cheap)
Also I don't want to interact with the survivors anymore (the game is over so just end it already)... Plus if it were a 5 Gen and 0 hook game I just want to move on and play more... not sit there and give the survivors "extra" BP, they did the 5 Gens barely got chased, barely got hit so why should I give them anything more
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I happen to really like these ideas. It would also give survivors incentive to stay in the game instead of suiciding. They seem to really discourage camping, even if somebody feels like trolling. The killer would gain literally nothing. It's the price they would pay for choosing to ruin another's fun. However, I do see some points that can be abused by SWF teams.
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Ways to address camping
remove it and buff killers accordingly
leave it
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I don't know if these precisely are the way to address it but I do think camping during at least end game collapse and or just after the last gen is done is valid. So maybe changes like this should just apply to mid match.
I kind of liked the idea of like, on 2nd hook there's no skill checks if the killer is too close/the bar progression is slower than otherwise and on 1st it's slowed and the chance to get yourself off increases until it reaches 50% (up from 4%) within' a certain radius after a decent chunk of time, decreases back down to 4 way rapidly than it increased up to when they leave the radius.
With new base BT taking yourself off hook while being camped is doable.
On another note Deliverance could use some sort of use case on 2nd hook. Maybe the skill checks turn into gen/healing like checks and on 3 great skill checks you get yourself off.
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