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When will we stop punishing killers for ending the game naturally?
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The idea of ending a match when the third one is sacrifised should not count when all gens are done of course + it depends if bhvr wants survivors to be more of a teamwork, giving them more tools for that or if they want to make it more solo focused, making it easier to win if you play egoisitc, but we don't want to make it survivors vs survivors so idk. + my idea was more focused to end a match quicker so both sides can move to the next game faster. It's not a perfect idea but imo it's better than having survivor who just waits for the hatch.
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This....sounds like if survivors finish 4th Gen, the 5th completes itself
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I am just glad you are not dev, probably nobody would play your game. Your game would not survive even the first week.
Terrible suggestions, probably one of the worst. Like i said, i am glad you are not dev. You could kill DbD probably before first year anniversary.
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Perhaps you're the baby Killer here?
The hatch ALWAYS spawns next to the last Survivor in the game.
Let that sink in for a second.
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So your point of balancing something which spawns only when 1 survivor is in the game and the killer most of the times finds it first and closes it is to remove it?
I don't understand your point. The hatch got nerfed, it takes 3s to open it if it closes, almost no survivor brings a key, killer has mobility advantage and resource advantage as well (mostly no pallets left, dead zones etc) but you still feel like escaping through it is a problem bc you didn't 4k and survivors should just Idk die?
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I can't tell if you're trolling or you're serious... But if you're serious then by your logic if survivors do 4 gens the game should end bc they did most of the work done?
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Either the game ends or hatch stays, if there won't be any hatch and the game won't end survivor will just hide and it would be really hard to end a match. I think this was the main reason why hatch was created.
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Pretty sure the [Trusted] tag is there because a "Trusted" person commented, not because of any opinions expressed or number of upvotes on said opinions. Same as when a post has the [Mod] tag, because a mod answered a question (or told everyone to calm down).
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Let him believe whatever he want :d It is fun to see terrible suggestions like that.
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Also if killer killed 3 survivors before 5 gens were done then he did all the work. Most killers already count this as a win but this does not solve the problem with survivors waiting for hatch. I really can't tell if you're trolling me or not with this post.
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You don't lose MMR with hatch escapes, the difference between a 3k + hatch or a 4k is basically null. You're only gaining a few less points.
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When everyone's always questioning your MMR and skill level, yes gaining MMR is important. If I faced nothing but baby survivors, my opinions would cease to be valid, because I wouldn't be experiencing the level that I'm talking about.
Maybe you should let go of rank elitism then?
This sort of top-down balancing is only effective for turning games into spectator sports, it doesn't help general playability because the average player's game is completely different from what tournament level players play. Trying to focus only on this elusive 'high MMR' bracket has a tendency of making the game worse for the vast majority of players.
What you find fair or unfair in any game can still be valid, in disregard of your rank.
Additionally, the hatch is not going to be the reason you're not at your proper MMR. A hatch escape doesn't deduct from your rating, it just doesn't give you the heavily diminished value from the fourth kill because, if not for the hatch, it would be a freebie anyway. If MMR is working as it should, then your MMR will, over time, wind up where it should be, especially as killer, since there's no one but yourself to rely on. Getting a hatch escape is just going to make it take a little longer, which is healthy for the MMR system, because a larger sample size of games means a more accurate representation of your actual competence.
So basically, what you are arguing for is a change that would likely have severely negative impact for both survivors and killers (What's the fourth survivor going to do if there's no hatch? Hide away as long as possible in hopes of frustrating the killer into quitting is my guess) because
A) You believe that MMR determines the validity of someone's opinion, full stop
and
B) You are so impatient that you want literally every last point you can get your hands on
Not a good look, bud.
I can't believe you literally said hatch got nerfed, therefore it can't possibly be problematic anymore. The same would never be said of something on the killer side. This is where we are.
That is literally not what they said, they said the hatch was 'Gutted to the ground', not just nerfed. There's a very stark and obvious difference that you chose to ignore there.
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If you're in a position to get hatch you most likely got 3k'd by a killer. And even then if the last 2 people escaped through the gate and you find hatch... literally escaped because RNG. Also if a person ran a killer for the whole game and still didn't 4 out that is legit a team diff. Not even bringing perks in the equation... its so easy to 4 man out when exit gates are 99'd cause its just body block city.
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Right, please show me another successful game where you can be losing throughout the whole match, and then the game gives you a free chance to win, not based off of your skill or anything, but luck.
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Y'all have been breaking records for putting words in my mouth. I never said it always spawns near the last survivor, but that it feels that way. So not all, but probably 90% of my matches where this situation happens, it feels like that.
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Hatch just rearranged the chairs on the Titanic, as it creates the same problem it was meant to solve.
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You really don't want to admit that hatch isn't perfect, do you?
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You gonna argue your position or just going to misrepresent everyone else's?
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you can close hatch and then there will be egc which is stupid that you find hatch and then you need to patrol gates but game can end. The same is with slugging but it does not change the fact that it takes really long.
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It takes so long for killers to close out the game playing normal. None of the other games in DBD's genre make it this complicated to kill the survivors once and for all. It's second chance after second chance, not just with perks, but with base game mechanics.
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Imagine wanting the last survivor so bad, jesus… Touch some grass.
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I agree completely. Some people as you saw or not said that killing 3/4 survivors is only 3/4 job done which is not true. You want to pressure survivors enough so you can kill them. If survivors can't do gens you just kill them, even if chase takes 30 seconds, if they can't do 5 gens, they will die. If there is the last survivor this mean that survivors failed as a team but he still gets an oppurtunity to escape because yes.
+ I don't think that we should look at kills as a win progress. If we will then we should balance game around kills. Also if killing 3/4 survivors is only 3/4 of job done then killers don't win when the last one escapes by hatch.
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Hatch is a non-issue because slugging for 4K exists as a counter.
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Well then people can't complain about slugging for the 4k.
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That's why i usually run to killers at the end, to avoid boring killers like you who would keep slugging for 4k as if it's an e-sports final.
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I think it's hilarious killers are never satisfied.
Devs make it horrendously killer sided.
Killers: it's not enough! 😭😭😭
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You don't really have a right to call out other people for having a fragile ego if the idea of a hatch escape angers you so much you create a whole thread in the forums to complain about it.
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People hatch escaping doesn't hurt my ego. It just denied my points and partially my win. What other game out there says, "Sorry, you're not allowed to make more points than this"? But I think the hatch is very much responsible for survivor entitlement in this game. The game gives them a free escape for playing bad, so now they expect that, and they're gonna expect the devs to balance the game so that it becomes a reality. Pop Nerf, Pain Res nerf, Wraith nerf, Pinhead nerf. We've seen it play out.
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K but youre trying to make an apples to oranges comparison. You're comparing literal rng that can spawn the "free escape" in front of the killer to perk changes that were only nerfed because of the added seconds on the gens. And really, the nerfs aren't even as bad as you guys make them out to be.
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Gaining MMR is about as important as getting pips to increase your grade. You don't know your MMR. You don't actually know if you are high MMR. You can only make a guess, because the number isn't shown to you.
Hatch's spawn location is entirely random and is decided at the beginning of the match. The only way to guarantee a specific location for the hatch is to bring an offering to spawn it at Main Building or Shack, and if you already know where it's going to spawn, it's just a matter of who gets there first.
It doesn't matter if you don't 4K, just as it's not ultimately a big deal if survivors don't 4E. The remaining survivor doesn't win by getting hatch, as that would imply the killer lost. The hatch exists as a way out to prevent the game being held hostage. One survivor cannot possibly be expected to do multiple generators and get the gate open when they are the only one left alive. The killer could just force them to farm.
Even in a 2v1, the game is basically over at that point and the killer can force the survivors to farm.
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I wanna hear your opinion on The Survivor Agenda™.
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Ooooh where can I get a copy of The Survivor Agenda™? Maybe I can get OP to sign it for me.
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It's not that much of a stretch. Survivors like getting escapes, especially through hatch which is free. So they want more free stuff to help them escape, so instead of playing around Pop and Pain Res and all this other stuff, the devs will just change it for them. The Pop nerf from 60 seconds to 45 was ridiculous enough, now it's gonna take off like 5% of a gen depending on the progress. That's not balance; that's just ridiculous.
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It's not that much of a stretch. The survivor rule book is no joke. You can't post gameplay of tunneling or camping without someone "calling you out".
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- We should buff survivor to the level of "survivor+friends+comms"
- We should buff all killers to the level of nurse
Only one of those gets dupport from all the community lol.
- "Be happy with only reaching 71-75% of your goal"
- Be happy with 3 kills, you dont need the 4th
- Be happy with powering the gens, you dont need to open the gates and escape.
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See now you're trying to come to an entirely different conclusion about the perk nerfs. The devs themselves nerfed the perks Bec of the gen changes. That's all. The meta itself got gutted since all you needed to do on both sides to win is bring the strongest ish possible and go from there. Also you can't exactly speak for what survivors want. (That's called an assumption) So realistically, you're getting upset over literal rng unless you're referring to offerings force spawning hatch which I'll agree with you there.
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The devs should have known that adding a mere 10 seconds to the gens wasn't going to make the current gen regression perks OP. I get that they wanted to shake up the meta, but they made pretty much every top killer perk a shadow of its former self, and the top survivor perks are still in use because they weren't destroyed like the killer ones. Gen regression is still dead, and second chance spam is still alive.
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Sorry, but there is simply no correlation between "survivor entitlement" and hatch escapes. A survivor player would have to be massively deluded to think they're amazing for getting a hatch escape after a 3K.
From a killer perspective, I have zero cares over the last survivor getting a hatch escape. As far as I'm concerned, I've already won after the 3rd kill - anything beyond that is just gravy.
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Gen regression is dead?
Pop was nerfed and Ruin was.. well. But I doubt you've missed all the people getting some good mileage out of the like 10 other regression/slowdown perks that were buffed. It wasn't literally just ruin and pop.
It's like a survivor coming up and yelling SURVIVOR IS UNPLAYABLE after Dead Hard was nerfed.
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Gen regression has been dead at high level for a long time. Against survivors who aren't efficient? Sure, it's alive. But literally what can these perks do that survivors can't deal with? Gen kicking perks? Just tap it. Pain Res? Let go before it blows. Eruption? Finish it before it blows or push another gen. It's pointless, because survivors progress the gens faster than you can regress them, and that's one of the reasons why they can cause you to lose the whole game off a 20-second chase. That 2.5% per kick? Mhmm, definitely making the game unbeatable for survivor.
People always say, "Oh well, you're not facing that level all the time anyway." Oh, but I am, like 70% of the time. You don't have to be perfectly efficient or be good at chases to beat a good killer. If you're semi-decent, that's good enough. With Nurse and Blight it's different, but for every other killer you can play not that well and still expect escapes. "You can just make up for it with tunneling and camping." Okay, so I can just camp and tunnel from the get go for a free 4k? Not how it works. There's too many braindead loops for survivor where the killer has to waste time guaranteed, and that's to get 1 down.
But survivors mains are gonna continue to insist that it's them who have the unplayable game.
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Excuse me what second chance spam is still alive? Most of those perks get deleted the second you finish the final gen. OTR isn't always that helpful if the killer has a way of getting hits in a faster manner (including Legion). The more you speak, the more killer bias you show and it eats at your logic. Also last time I checked, DMS + Pain Res exists, Plaything + Pentimento exists, Overcharge+ Call of Brine exists, Discordance, Thrilling Tremors exists, and other gen info/slowdown. So you're argument is completely invalid.
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If you knew the number of survivors I've met who scream "EZ" when they get an hatch escape after I've killed everyone...
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That's what I'm saying. He's saying they'd have to be massively deluded to think that, and yes they are. But this isn't just a few survivors. Basically the whole community acts like that when they get hatch. I can't remember the last time a survivor got hatch against me and didn't tbag, assuming they had time to. Their mentality is literally, "I escaped so therefore you're a bad killer" and everyone else will chime in with something similar to that. If you admit you play killer on these forums, your skill WILL be questioned.
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It's not invalid. I don't even think any of those killer perks see play in tournament outside of maybe on Nurse or Blight. There's a counter to all of them, btw. Unlike survivor perks where they just get 80 seconds of invulnerability.
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The counter to that is to literally hit them. Either they disable it on their own or you can physically deactivate it yourself. Also it's odd how you failed to mention the perk deactivates in endgame which is literally counterplay
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Listen as someone who usually tends to agree that BHVR has a hard time balancing the game and tends to favor survivors the hatch is not a problem at all. If you play solo-q you'll notice how sometimes its the only way to escape.
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The killer moves faster and doesn't have to hide their scratch marks from the survior while they look for it. Both hatch offerings are killer-sided, as the last survivor would need a key for such an offering to be in their benefit. And perks like NOED and No Way Out STILL punish the survivor for "gen-rushing" even if all the gens weren't done.
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Just hit them? And then they get a free sprint burst after they already had Haste off hook? I wonder why killers consider these scenarios lose-lose. If the survivors made it to endgame, they won't need those perks anymore anyway. It would just be a free escape for them.
Killers having endgame perks though? Certain downsides are attached to them that they don't need. Apparently, NOED needs to be a destroyable hex AND reveal its aura to them. Remember Me needs to be maxed out at 4 stacks AND not work on the obsession. Blood Warden needs the gates to be open AND only blocks them once.
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And whose fault is that? The killer's?
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No, definitely not, but a 3k is a victory for the killer, the 4k does reward with extra points and rank but is not something that will make or break your rank-up unless you did really bad anyway, but is that the survivors fault? I played about 5 killer games yesterday, I closed hatch about 3 times, 2 times I had one person escape. I won all 5 games even with hatch and even then I got a 4k 60% of the time, and at least one of those games it was my fault because I had plenty of time to find hatch and didn’t. The hatch, unlike before, only allows one person to escape through it, if it is making you consistently lose a pip then it’s not about the hatch, it’s about you.
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