Since Reassurance is useless, when is Camping going to be addressed?
Title. Reassurance was supposed to be this magic solution to camping, finally Behaviour was acknowledging the issue and doing something about it. Now that Reassurance has been released, people are realising that it literally does nothing to help what it's supposed to help, and it's not worth bringing.
So, anyway, after 6 years of not only not punishing camping, but actually buffing it and encouraging it, when are we getting the tools to address this?
When are you going to do anything for solo Q survivors while we're at it?
We get it, you can release pretty cosmetics. I get it, you've got a good artistic team. What about the actual balance of the game?
Comments
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This is what happens when you try to bandaid core issues of the game with perks.
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I still think they best way to fix it is a proximity point deductions when not in a chase and if they don't have Insidious. "Then killers will always Insidious camp" Run kindred. You can see the aura fade after they stand still. You can continue working on gens and then leave or go in for the rescue.
Until then Breakdown is actually a good anti camping and tunneling perk. It prevents the one for one exchange too.
Ultimately we should be prepared for them to continue to do nothing substantial and try to use new perks that they'll immediately nerf to appease the worst of the worst.
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It isn't useless, you just wanted too much out of it.
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Survivors camp gens so killers have to respond by camping if the gen pressure is high. The game needs a full redesign. Let's take a quick peek at gen regression. There are 4 survivors and the killer's default regression speed is 1/4th of one survivor. No offense but giving the killer 1/16th the gen speed of the survivors by default is a complete joke. There is no wonder that killers have been forced to stack multiple gen slowdown perks for years.
Killer regression should be 1:1 if all 4 survivors are alive. That still gives survivors an approximate 3x advantage most of the time assuming someone is either on the hook or being chased. Whenever you kill someone you lose half your regression speed. In other words with two people dead you would have the base kit 25% regression speed. For anyone who is not good at math this is the current regression speed with no perks.
Welcome to DBD killer balance for the last 6 years. Maps RNG is broken and sometimes generates infinite or near infinite loops. Instead of weighting tiles they made the Bamboozle perk. The only problem is that you have four perks as killer and you already have the problem of 1/16th regression to repair speed. We can down the list and shrug off a huge number of perks that are bandaids that "fix" a problem most of the time if you use that perk. The only problem is you can't bring all the perks necessary to fix the problems.
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It's not useless.
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Agreed. Nerf survs, sometimes they escape. Perhaps they should start the game hooked
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That last part has become a huge problem on both sides over the years. Now there's a dozen different bandaid perks for each side but still only 4 slots. It's like which problem is the biggest with x killer or on the survivor side and equip that bandaid perk. We will never have true build variations untell bandaid perks aren't a thing otherwise build will consist of 2-4 bandaid perks just to have a good game.
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I'm always glad when people have horrible takes like this. Makes my killer games easier.
(Like DS)
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Proximity points deduction could work, but I'd be more enclined to a paused timer if killer is within a range and no survivors are in that same range (to prevent chasing around hook exploit).
The only thing with your suggestion to look for Insidious with Kindred is that currently it... doesn't work. The black bubble surrounding the hook hides the killer's aura long enough that you can't know if they do have Insidious.
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They already have point deduction for camping.
On the chaser emblem, there are these:
The issue is you cant force someone not to camp if they dont want to. Even with band-aid perks
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It's already addressed by playing Survive With Friends and switching to voice communications using Discord.
Just get better at trading hooks and abusing immunity from BT and other perks. Coordinate better on Discord.
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But that bandaid could worked but they overnerfed it they should increase the range and timer but instead it was made useless.
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It's not useless, but it's not great either. Once you factor in the range and the time lost from travelling to the survivor / generator it's pretty underwhelming. However, you cannot allow people to force someone to stay hooked perpetually either so it did need some kind of a change. Where it's strength lies (aside from swf) is endgame where people need time to heal up and try for a rescue.
It's likely going to need some kind of buff though if no base changes for face camping are coming.
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Well but that's the thing. If you want people to bring something to help camping, it needs to be good. Anything other than it being good, is just trash. "it's not completely useless" is no good. It equals people not bringing it.
At least make it 60 seconds per hook stage.
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I'd rather they put something basekit so that people aren't obligated to take specific perks or worse, have a bandaid solution gated behind a paywall (no shrine does not count simply due to the likelihood of it appearing). However, I agree with you the timer needs to be higher, something around 45-50 seconds. Kinship is only 34 seconds but has a significantly more generous activation window (even though it's second stage only)
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It's not 1/16th except at the very start of the match. If the killer does their job right, it's going to be 1/4th because one survivor will be rescuing/healing, one will be getting rescued/healed, one will be in chase, leaving only one on the generators.
What's with these doom scenarios where people work off the assumption that the killer is AFK?
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Sounds like you expected way too much from a perk. You can't force someone to play a certain way,if that killer wants to camp/tunnel you to death then you're gonna die and there's no way around it.
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Nonsense. It should be effective at what it's supposed to do. That's why we're asking to buff its range and duration to at least 60 seconds. As it is, it is completely pointless and unusable.
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So 50 seconds, cumulable up to three times, 150 seconds, basically more than two minutes.
Sounds fair alright. /s
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Yeah, it's really fair, considering it just keeps a survivor incapacitated for longer.
You wanna camp into an anti-camp strat, don't cry that you're spending 2.5 minutes staring at the hook.
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And reward survivors for rushing the hook like brainless flies rushing into decayed meat, something we know they do whenever they can, at the detriment of the poor player stuck for at least 2 and a half minute on a hook.
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Because the perk shouldn't be balanced around the possibility of 3 other people all having it. If only there was some limit they could put in place and adjust the numbers, truly a mystery we will never solve /s
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My god, I hate posts like this. Instead of having a conversation, you literally start asserting your agenda. "Since reassurance is useless...". Really? :D How is it useless? Do you also think Kinship is useless?
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Except that's exactly how survivor perks need to be balanced(what's the worst case scenario in a swf). Using that logic some of the most broken and busted perk nerds need to be reverted, did you think old object of obsession was fair?
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Nobody promised that this perk would singlehandedly "end" camping, If that's what YOU took out of the PTB then that sounds like a personal problem. If you think its so useless then don't use it when you SWF, just don't cry about it when you die constantly in situations where it would've saved you or your friend
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Alright, I want to stop all of this non-sense. This perk is legitimately a strong perk and I'll explain why.
This perk isn't just strong against campers, even though it's that too. But it's especially good at one very common scenario. You're nearly finished with a gen but someone's on hook, you finish your gen and the killer comes back to the hook. (very common because the killer is going to want to punish you for prioritizing the generator) At which point the killer can force a trade or get a grab or even force death. In this situation you activate the perk and someone else can get the save while you're getting chased. That situation would have been game ending before and that's no longer the case.
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You can still see them leaving at 16m. If you don't see that, they're probably hanging around. I use kindred and open handed most of the time so I'm going to know one way or another.
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Congratulations, you explained why Reassurance might work in SWF
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Not saying it shouldn't be taken into consideration. However, that wasn't the point I was making, it was more that there were better ways of addressing the PTB issues and still keeping it balanced. Anyway, old object wasn't a problem because 4 people could bring it, it was a problem because only 1 needed to and then relayed that information to the other 3. On maps like Midwich it reduced killers such as Trapper into a pointless exercise. Likewise, old DS wasn't nerfed because 3 other people could bring it, but because of it's strength relative to the wider game.
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I did this repeatedly in solo queue both yesterday and this morning. The problem with solo queue is often that people are TOO altruistic because they can't tell their friend, "I'll be right there. I'm at 95% on a generator."
I've also used it in matches where there was substantial tunneling. Instead of saving the person on the hook just for them to get tunneled, I went over, used Reassurance, and kept them safe on the hook while a friend of mine was finishing the last generator. The person who was getting tunneled was a random person and I had no communication with them. While I didn't plan it this way, that Reassurance play ended up being a pretty substantial distraction and it allowed the other survivor to get a hook from a camping killer.
Instead of constantly thinking your team is a bunch of potatoes, you really just have to go, "Oh, my teammate used Reassurance and didn't unhook when they could have. There must be a reason. What's their strategy?"
I've also found Reassurance can be a good solo queue way of saying, "Hey, I'm just trying to finish this generator you're hooked right next to in a stealthy way, but I see you and I'll be right back."
The perk really removes a lot of the pressure to unhook asap because it gives you such a large fallback. Sometimes it's better to wait for the unhook, but waiting for the unhook is risky if the killer then comes back to camp. Reassurance basically removes that risk and removes a lot of the times when you'd be forced into a hook trade.
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Lets look at why The Perk is ussless now
They Nerfed it because of survivors using it to Keep others on hook forever
In other words SWF abused it and got it nerfed for all of you
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Sorry but being able to use it more than once per hook state is abusive.
How long does unhooking and healing take? Does it take 90 seconds? It does not. You need to remember that most of the game as killer is you chase one person while everyone else can do whatever they want. Mathematically during the first five minutes of any game you can expect a killer to be keeping one person busy during the majority of that time. This is a fact based on the idea that chases take a long time.
Killer's speed is X/4 compared to one survivor. If two people are still on generators that is 2x relative to the killer. If we consider that one person is always on the hook and one person is always being chased ( which is a false premise) then the killer needs a multiple of 8 to "catch up" to two survivors.
It doesn't take a math genius to prove that base regression speed for killers is too slow.
Do you know the problem with the scenario you listed? You decided to finish the gen before you rescued your friend. If you always rescue the friend first then camping becomes far less likely.
The problem is that you know that finishing the gen first and getting the rescue right before the next stage is a better outcome. What you fail to realize is that when hook timers were increased it was so you have more time to rescue against a camper. It was not intended as "more time for you to finish gens before making a rescue".
The problem is that is exactly what most people want.
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might want to take your own advice.
Post edited by EQWashu on1 -
It was specifically designed to punish killers that are face camping so badly that they won’t move when another survivor is 6 meters from the hook.
BHVR never said they were getting rid of proxy camping, which is what you want the perk to do.
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Reassurance was never supposed to fix camping - It was supposed to be a perk that took pressure away from a killer. It just happens that it hurt full on campers the most so it looked like that magic solution.
It was always a terrible perk for solving camping. Doesn't at all help the solo survivors, doesn't make it clear the killer is camping to every survivor not nearby and doesn't encourage the survivors to either push through objectives or rescue the survivor. Genuinely confused as to why the majority of the community thinks this was an amazing solution to camping even prior to the change. It never was and was only good for taking away killer pressure and nothing else. For that purpose it's still great because 30 seconds is a long ass time in game.
You won't ever make this perk have the ability to stop camping - However doing the following will prompt other survivors to act - which is the issue right now. Have it show the killer aura to everyone else if they are within the activation distance when this perk procs and give it one of the two buffs if you want it to do the following.
Either
Give everyone an objective speed buff for the duration if the killer aura was revealed so they know to do objectives
or
Give everyone increased unhook speed OR Endurance when they are within range of the survivor being camped so they can actually perform a save. Then you'll have your magical band aid solution for camping.
Alternatively - BHVR could just work on modifying the killer powers who enable camping the most and adjust hook mechanics to make baseline adjustments so there is no camping. Because a perk isn't the solution to it.
tl;dr - It's still a great perk for taking away pressure from the killer - It was never a good anti camping perk - You all just twisted the idea of this perk into that and set your expectations too high for it
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Please stop derailing, spamming the same flaming comments over and over, and insulting everyone, you contribute -nothing- constructive in any thread you participate in. Just insults.
Sorry, but an anecdote where this perk worked doesn't make it good. I also have instances where I made Detective's Hunch help. It's still a trash perk.
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so does mine but i don't need to record it and demand people to go watch it when i sit there telling people to GeT GoOd like a entitled child. 🤣
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But slugging is boring, and it would be the best way to go in your scenario.
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I've heard this a lot, but no one can answer my question. Do you have evidence this occurred? A clip, vod, video, anything?
I'm not saying it isn't possible for a couple survivors to work together with the killer to hold someone hostage, just that no one seems to have evidence, only 'saying it happened.' Almost like people just made up an urban legend and stuck with it.
And nerfing the perk is useless for responding a bully situation, since a couple survivors can work together with the killer right now to body block anyone from moving. Base kit, no perks required. Same hostage situation, but that seems to be a non issue. Strange.
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No it was not just would kill camping so that why it was nerfed so campers don't get punished. I did my last basement bubba thinking it would not be viable anymore before update but barely no-one uses it so facecamping bubba is still easy 4K and if survivors know what they're doing still easy 2K.
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If you're so concerned about that 'poor player', just don't camp. They won't be up there for 2.5 minutes if you don't camp.
How long does unhooking and healing take? Does it take 90 seconds? It does not. You need to remember that most of the game as killer is you chase one person while everyone else can do whatever they want. Mathematically during the first five minutes of any game you can expect a killer to be keeping one person busy during the majority of that time. This is a fact based on the idea that chases take a long time.
Honey, if your chases take 90 seconds, you are the problem, not the game's base regression rate.
Killer's speed is X/4 compared to one survivor. If two people are still on generators that is 2x relative to the killer. If we consider that one person is always on the hook and one person is always being chased ( which is a false premise) then the killer needs a multiple of 8 to "catch up" to two survivors.
No, he doesn't. Because if the third survivor isn't going for the unhook, you'll get a kill long before the survivors are done with their gens, and if you have two on hook at a time, you have to royally misplay to lose that one.
And aside from the third survivor being MIA in your 'calculations', you're also not accounting for survivor travel time, or survivors dealing with totems, or the killer power adding delays, or, really, -any factors-.
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it's funny that they say that since i was playing ptb since day 1 that it came out and in both the times that i played killer and survivor i never once saw or was affected by these so called hostage situations. what did happen though is that frustrated campers came and whined on the forums for a major nerf and bhvr did like they do best and had a knee jerk reaction and nerfed the perk into the ground. funny how they promised they weren't gonna have those knee jerk reactions reactions anymore. there was plently of decent suggestions on how to stop the hostage situation but entitled whining won out further cementing that the devs have no idea how to balance perks without making 3/4 of them worthless to use.
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Explain how you would of used PTB Reassurance and why that wouldn't work for release Reassurance.
Remember the PTB version had a cooldown longer than the effect. So you still needed two survivors or the hooked survivor's timer will still decrease.
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I have gotten consistent reassurance value almost every game with it
Its been barley a day, wait until more players learn how to utilize it properly
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Just use Reassurance... Properly. That will solve your problem.
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And don’t you would have best use of other perk in general in every other match?
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You used it once. Don’t you thinking it was better to use another perk that you could use every match?
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All I can say is that you're super entitled to think that survivors are not allowed to play optimally. I'm a killer main, look through my history if you don't believe me. All I did was explain why it was a strong perk and in your view I committed a cardinal sin for assuming that survivors shouldn't play efficiently.
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The solution to facecamping at 5 gens is the same since the last killer patch... run to the hook, let him 4k asap and find another instant lobby to have fun. You’ll find him in this forums soon crying about swf at high ranks
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I took it off because it's a waste of a perk slot in Death Q. It's value is too dependent on your teammates having more than 1 brain cell. I really wanted to see this perk be strong, but in my games yesterday I get teammates that are too dumb to coordinate a save even when reassurance has been used, survs bringing killers back to the hooked surv just to get hit, use reassurance on them, and run away while the killer just sits there, and i'm seeing teams that sure do love to waste time doing anything but gens with COH and reassurance .
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