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The Mastermind/Wesker is a weak and underwhelming killer.
He has far too much counterplay while suffering from severe handicaps at the same time. He feels like a mix between Nurse and Blight in terms of mobility yet he's not even HALF as good as them. Hitting his power feels like a feat of luck, there are only a handful of maps which support his playstyle.
You have too little control over the distance of his dashes which makes it extremely hard to chain his two dashes properly with each other just to barely make contact with a survivor. The cooldowns are also far too high, he gets punished superhard for missing his ability.
The slowdown is ridiculous and the time it takes to regain his tokens is too great as well. And to make matters worse you've placed an overabundance of first aid sprays (which happen to have TWO uses) on the map just to immediately invalidate any advantages he might gain from infecting someone with his extremely hard to hit power.
At this point he'd be better off if his power dealt damage 100% of the time, it's ridiculous to make it rely on further map collision (making the survivor hit a wall).
I fear Wesker/The Mastermind is suffering from Trickster syndrome - he might look and sound great but his actual gameplay is dreadful and downright dysfunctional. Without his ridiculously hard to use power he's just a 115% killer who doesn't look at the ground after getting stunned, at least that's one advantage he has over the other killers. Now if only he didn't have his absurdly large terror radius...
Comments
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He’s bugged as all hell. We have literally never seen Wesker working as intended yet, so I’m not going to make any calls about his strength just yet.
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I've been saying this since the goddamn PTB, but no one listened and said he was "A tier" and that he was "A better Demogorgon"
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that's how bvhr is with killer powers. loads of drawbacks with no reward for using the ability.
High perceived skill-cap, low reward for being good at the killer from over-excessive counter-play, Limiting his skill-ceiling. Just another middle of the road killer until adjustments to his parameters.
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He's only really weak right now because they reduced his grab hitbox, as well as the myriad of other bugs that came on release with him. Buff his grab hitbox, and fix his horrendous bugs, and i'd say he's in a good spot. The max infection effects are pretty strong, 8% movement slowdown and being instadownable are very good, the problem is that you can't even get the instadown because of his small grab range.
If I had to give him a buff though, make his stacks recharge faster.
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I don't know if he's weak but he definitely doesn't feel like he is working as intended.
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I don't want to say he's weak, because his power is largely buggy right now.
He might still need buffs if they fix the buggy aspects of his power, but I would rather they fix those issues first and then buff him if he still is weak.
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Please, please show me a single tile where Wesker's Virulent Bound is better than Demogorgon's Shred.
Please!? I've asked this so many times and I've never, ever got an actual answer. I'll cry of happiness if you manage to show me a single ######### tile
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because he was different in the PTB.
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He wasn't. He had the same issues he has now. He just didn't slide on Survivors as much as he does now, which was still irrelevant because of how long it took to even charge his Bound.
It was, and still is, unusable at a majority of tiles, and only works in tiles an M1 Killer could've gotten a bit reliably
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Shack maybe? Idk, I managed to bound through shack window and down a survivor before they could loop back around the window or pallet
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Demogorgon's best tile is shack...
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Did you just not read anything I just said
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I have a feeling I somehow commented on a wrong thread
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There's one more aspect which is extremely underwhelming about this killer and the way he's supposed to synergize with his perks.
I'm talking about dashing over pallets while having Superior Anatomy equipped. The slowdown you experience from his tentacle animation right afterwards pretty much invalidates any advantage you might hope to gain from performing this silly circus trick. Survivors can loop easily to the other end of the pallet you just vaulted just to make you repeat the nonsense ad infinitum.
You absolutely cannot catch up to anyone, there is no point to vaulting pallets as Wesker.
Because he doesn't deserve to have such an abnormally large TR considering his pitiful gameplay.
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after the bug fixes and QoL updates he will be better rn its just hard to hit survivors
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Survivors can loop easily to the other end of the pallet you just vaulted just to make you repeat the nonsense ad infinitum.
You absolutely cannot catch up to anyone, there is no point to vaulting pallets as Wesker.
its too bad his power goes on cooldown after vaulting a pallet. If only he could use his 2nd bound after vaulting a pallet. what a world of difference would it make for his tile-set play. dropping safe pallets is creates an infinity against his power.
When pallets are not dropped, his slow cast-time combine with slow movement speed does not help him get hits at pallets
They also nerfed his only redeeming feature in PTB which was his ability to hit people between loops. Now with slow dash and smaller collision, side-step his dash is super easy. Its like dodging huntress hatchets without any wind-up charge up, too slow of a projectile.
His mobility was a problem in PTB. The recharge rate on his ability is quite long and his total dash distances is too little based off the slowdown he receives after finishing the dash. recharge-rate add-on has low % and range add-on have drawbacks.
Its pretty normal for BVHR to limit skill-ceiling of killers. so nothing special there.
dug was talking about his hypothetical potential to be strong killer. he has all elements to be strong killer, but his variables/balance is very bad. Demo power is stronger because his variables/balance is a lot better despite having more limited tools compare to Wesker. Demo power has more limited functionalities but the few functionalities that demo has are really good. All of wesker's functionalities are dysfunctional and very weak.
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How much better is the question.
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I don't wanna buy him at all, i'm disapointed it's Wesker and i didn't even get to play him in the PTB... queues times were infinite.... The only thing i can say is my god Distressing on him is absolutly disgusting! Playing against him on maps with 2 floors is quite the experience.
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I’m agreeing with you on this that Shred is miles better than Bound, not even at tiles the only thing Bound has is movement, chase-wise you are out of luck with Bound as if you hit a survivor through a vault with bound, you would have done the same with demo
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Demo's shred is better than wesker and I don't even main it.
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this chapter feels immensely rushed, just like most chapters now.
the 3 month chapter release schedule seems to cripple most chapters with any glint of potential and it makes me very sad
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This is everything wrong with killer in DBD. The skill required is too high for the minimal reward. Meanwhile survivor gameplay is holding W and predropping pallets
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His bugs and hit boxes need to be looked at.
Other then that, balance wise, he is pretty much perfect. There need to be enough sprays for survivor to cure themselves from his infection. His ability in general also works perfectly. Survivors have a fair amount of counterplay, which is good, a killer should also be fun to go against. But he doesn't have too much, since wesker himself has a good amount of counterplay against survivors as well.
So while I do agree that his bugs and hit box need to be looked at, he won't need any other balance changes. His charge time, the recharge time, his collision box size, they are perfectly fine now.
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T-L walls or Jungle Jyms for example. if not stronger, than at least just as strong.
Kind of any tile that Demogorgon is good at. Wesker, in most cases, is at least just as good as Demo at those tiles.
The idea in a lot of cases is to use his first dash to position yourself quickly, and then get the survivor with his second dash. That is very helpful if the survivor is at the backside of the T-wall for example. You just dash to one of the corners of the wall, and then dash along the wall with your second one. Very effective. His ability to position himself quickly with his first dash, and then get the survivor with his second dash is one of the parts that makes him pretty good.
It also can create some very interesting and fun mindgames.
This is kind of ignoring his buggy hitboxes though.
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His power is so busted I've "missed" 4 people today just by them crouching infront of me
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He's not weak, the problem is his power just straight up DOES NOT WORK, so many times where I dash right through a survivor
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REMEMBER EVERYONE, refunds exist ;)
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i don't disagree. but wesker could be a killer that counters pre-dropping pallets and holding-w while being a fair killer that the survivors can outplay if survivors side-step his virulent bound. I think he's still good, just that he could be greater.
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Not saying you think this, but when most survivors say “fair” it translates to “thing i can do to counter the killer every time.” That isn’t how counterplay is supposed to work
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Anyone else feel like Wesker is just a better Nemesis? Just me?
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You can't "position yourself quickly" because of the 1.5 second charge time. The only way you get hits as Wesker on any tile that isn't a 4 lane or T/L wall is if the Survivors make mistakes, unlike Demogorgon which can force Survivors into lose/lose situations
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Nemesis is far easier to play as and can deal with loops in a far more efficient manner.
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Demogorgon also can mindgame a lot better due to having supershort cooldowns between attempting to shred and canceling it. Meanwhile Wesker loses too much speed and time on the tentacle animations for pulling them out and then back into him. It's simply awful, the least they could do is enable him to automatically break pallets he vaults over with.
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Just for clarity since this comes up, Demo does charge his Shred more quickly than Wesker.
- Wesker’s Bound takes 1.5 seconds to charge, and if he doesn’t do a full charge then he doesn’t get to Bound. (I don’t know how long the cooldown is if you start to charge but cancel without Bounding, but my guess is it’s about 0.4 - 0.5 seconds same as Demo?)
- Demogorgon can do a partially charged Shred after charging for 0.65 seconds. I think the only difference really between a partial charge and a fully charged 1 second Shred is once he’s fully charged he gets the Killer Instinct pings from portals.
So Wesker does currently have to start charging his Bound almost a full second earlier than Demo in order to use it. Which does help Demo a bit in comparison in certain tight loops.
Honestly in terms of charge time and hit boxes I’m surprised they didn’t simply copy Demo’s numbers to Wesker, that way if you can play one it helps you play the other. And in a way since Demogorgon isn’t sold any more Wesker is kind of like his spiritual lunging successor on the store.
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The first dash definitely makes up for the 1,5 second charge time in my experience. The 1,5 second charge time is 100% needed however, because it does still make sure survivors have fair counterplay as well.
I am sure at some loops Demo is better than Wesker. But there are also loops I am sure Wesker is better than Demo, even if those loops are less.
But that's fine, because Wesker biggest power comes from countering holding w. That's where he is clearly stronger than Demogorgon. He can cover much more distance, and potentially even get a hit against a survivor from further distances. This also gives him slighty better zoning capabilities in general.
He also has better game delay, but Demo does have better map pressure.
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I've yet to see a single loop where Wesker is better than Demogorgon. I haven't even seen Wesker get a single hit on a junk tile because of how long his charge time is.
I've asked this a couple of times and never got an answer: show me a loop where Wesker can get a hit and Demogorgon can't. Want to know why I've never got an answer? Because the answer is that there isn't a single tile Wesker is better than Demogorgon.
Wesker is an M1 Killer with some antiShiftW capabilities. How is that any good when he gets looped for Generators at a time?
His game delay is also non-existent because of how slow it is along with the fact that his infection depletes itself whenever a Survivor gets hooked.
Wesker has barely anything going for him. His inconsistent mobility is the single fact that keeps him out of D tier
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Anywhere using Shred is a good idea, using Virulent Bound would be a good idea, once his hitbox is fixed.
I don't know why the stipulation has to be that VB must be "better" than Shred. They're both just dash attacks, only VB gives you a window to reorient yourself for a second if opportunity presents.
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Except using a Bound wherever Shred is possible is impossible.
Whta makes Shred such a good antiloop tool is because of how fast it is. Bound isn't. It's slow, clunky and easy to dodge
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Shred is good but bound is stronger at certain tiles where demo would have to w key longer to get a chance of a hit. New hitbox though I'd say his power actually terrible for these hits though. PTB you could be late to window where demo would have to continue looping and just rush down shack and hit them after window vault now good luck hitting anything. If they buff his hitbox and fix his bugs he will be pretty damn good at long tiles.
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Please... Show me a ######### tile where he gets a hit and Demogorgon doesn't.
Actually, don't. I already know the answer and have known it since Wesker's PTB
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I definitely wouldn't call it "slow".
"Clunky and Easy to Dodge" is not an accurate assessment either since its not working properly currently and is going to be fixed.
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Why you ride demo so hard? Obviously demo can get hits at the same tiles but if someone makes window while your power is held at the door you have to go all the way around wesker can rush down to the window and confirm. You HAVE to be close to the LOS blocker to pull your power at all or you're just running the tile again while wesker has options to gain los faster around these tiles to pull off his 2nd rush.
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Yea once they fix his bugs he will be a stronger demo at a few tiles that matter like shack/long walls while demo will play better still at shorter/round tiles.
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Charging it takes 230% longer compared to Shred. It's also way slower, you could probably react to it.
Vaulting Windows with Bound is useless because of the insanely long cooldown, same goes for Pallets.
Why are you riding Wesker so hard?
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His cooldowns are based on # of infected survivors and on strong windows like shack and some god pallets they simply don't make the window/pallet again at shack and are forced to drop pallet if they vault after you. I wasn't even talking about his vaulting mechanic either which is funny you literally just play it like blight at the door where you wait for vault if they have enough time and when they do you go down the side of shack and confirm at window. On PTB his hitbox was so big you simply don't dodge it we'll see if they buff it enough for it to be as consistent.
His dodge also isn't even that slow demo's is 18.4m/s and wesker's is 14m/s except wesker gets 2.
Considering I think the killer is in an awful state rn and is barely playable I'm not driding it's calling having some hope they fix his bugs and they are looking at buffing his hitbox.
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like shack and some god pallets they simply don't make the window/pallet again
Is that supposed to be an upside? With Demogorgon, they don't even make the Pallet/Window without getting injured.
I'm not driding it's calling having some hope they fix his bugs and they are looking at buffing his hitbox
Buffing his hit-box won't fix the fact his Bound is unusable at any tile if all 4 Survivors don't share the same 1/2 of a brain cell.
I genuinely don't understand what's so good about Wesker, even if he wasn't bugged, he'd still suck.
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The problem comes with the hitbox of his power, it is broken. I still collide with ghost objects but when I collide with survivors I just slip by. We need a smaller object collission hitbox and a bigger survivor grab window. His mobility is still great (i can easily dash through half of a map) but that's it. The devs really messed up with the hitbox.
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The difference is that demo would have no counterplay to strong pallets being down he has to break them and give them distance while wesker has the option to use his power to make them a lot weaker and deny strong predrops/pre vaults.
Why do you keep pretending his power is unusable at tiles? It's not like demo can do magic around circular tiles he goes in a straight line as well, but only once. If you don't see how wesker will be strong once his issues are fixed I don't know what to say everyone else can clearly see his A tier potential. Decent zoning anti loop that can counter very strong windows/pallets, some mobility, and a passive slowdown you can't ignore.
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It's not like demo can do magic around circular tiles he goes in a straight line as well
Tell me you don't play Demogorgon without telling me. Demogorgon's short charge time is what makes Shred usable at most round tiles.
Wesker's Bound isn't even usable at junk tiles, because it charges 230% slower.
If you don't see how wesker will be strong once his issues are fixed I don't know what to say everyone else can clearly see his A tier potential
There is no potential, because his Power is unusable at even the most basic loops
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WOW amazing killer can he run a junk tile twice then pulls power and pallet is dropped! Only a player who pretends demo is an amazing killer can be so short sided to not see his strengths. Waste of my time to try communicating with someone who only has one killer on their mind and every other must be garbage.
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