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Dead hard went from OP(according to killers) to complete garbage
The amount of times the perk just doesn't do s***t is ridiculous. Half a secod is stupid, just a little bit of latency completely screws you up, no matter what perfect timing you have when activating it, just nothing will happen and you still get hit, dummest perk change ever.
Comments
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I get a lot of value out of it, if you use it at a pallet. It's a very strong perk in the right hands.
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I've tried it that way, still I just get hit, the timing is perfect from my perspective, but somehow, the killers still hits
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Dead Hard is bugged, it doesn't give you invincibility for the first ~100 ms
But killer mains said it is a fine perk now and "requires more skill than before" so it went past PTB and won't probably be changed for another year or so
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I guess developers don't know what latency is
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I reckon you don't know what it is. They've got validation. Unless you think they can defy physics and rewrite reality?
Dead Hard is a good perk in the hands of someone who can use it. I suppose you can't use it yet.
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Imagine trying to drum up sympathy for DEAD HARD.
The nerf to Decisive Strike form 5 seconds to 3 was far, far worse.
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I had a match against weaker, where I hit dead and as soon as the animation started (exact same time) I was grabbed. Exhaustion was applied and I was grabbed at the same time.
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Hold on. Wesker is buggy and weird? You don't say.
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Because reliably being able to pull a third health state in every non-instadown chase, choreographed to the point where you could react to the killer's swing to use it, was overpowered and you should never have grown to expect that in the first place?
Dead Hard was a bad idea to begin with. I'm not shedding tears for its current state. If they want to work on the latency, sure, but asking for it to be buffed again is a fool's errand.
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Half a second didn't stop it from being one of the best perks in the game before, and it doesn't stop it from being very good now.
Dead Hard is fine.
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Apparently even people like Probzz with 5000+ hours don't know how to use Dead Hard either
As Probzz regularly gets affected by the bug too:
If you watch frame-by-frame, he pressed Dead Hard about 100ms before getting hit. The prompt disappeared, and the animation started, but he still gets hit.
Please tell us more about that "hit validation"
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That's because the devs only care about killer mains. They dont give a ######### about survivors.
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Ah yes for 6 years they have bowed to the whim of all the killer mains. No wait actually scratch that reverse it. DBD has favored survivor for six years. If you don't think that's true then you need to take a good look at your fundamental understanding of the game. Literally every big killer streamer who also plays survivor well agrees that the game favors survivors.
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Dead Hard can be used well for sure. It's not as crazy as the old Dead Hard, but it definitely does things no other perk can.
The main reason its healthier now is that it only really gets value with good Survivors and good Survivors are rarer than people think.
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I'm assuming you ran DH in all your survivor builds before the nerf correct?
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For the past years, sure, but now? Any source for your claim that "every big killer streamer who also plays survivor well agrees that the game favors survivors." ?
Can you explain why the escape rate of top survivor streamers like Probzz, Angrypug is below 50% if the game is still survivor sided?
Can you explain why a survivor main like me can get a consistent >80% killrate with almost every killer, and yet I don't think I've EVER managed to escape 5 times in a row as survivor ? The first time I played Nurse, I won 36 times in a row, and I recorded the streak (can share link). Since you're saying the game favors survivors, would you mind recording your survivor gameplay and show us your best streak too so we can compare?
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Getting stunned for 5 seconds by looking at your arm isn't the best feeling. Most survivors used the 5 seconds to teabag at me and then stun me with the pallet for 2 more seconds, it just wasn't good. Now, if you want 5 full seconds, make sure to use DS at a pallet so you can get 3 seconds stun from the perk and 2 seconds stun from the pallet if you really need 5 seconds
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-"Can you explain why a survivor main like me can get a consistent >80% killrate with almost every killer"
Every survivor main I know gets matches that may as well be against 3 players compared to what I play against as killer. I watched a friend of mine play the other day and I probably could have won vs that team with my favorite killer after giving them a 60 second afk start.
DBD changed with the 40 perk rework so that solo queue vs killer is fair if everyone is efficient on gens and can loop moderately well. The problem is that most people don't loop well or they don't focus on slamming gens. It's not the fault of survviors that many of the tome challenges require them to do things that can throw the game like loot chests or break hooks (neither of which is usually good for the team).
Nothing changed when you play vs very strong teams that are 3 or 4 man SWFs. Strong survivor players can easily still dominate the game. If anything the 40 perk rework made killer weaker against them because instant regression got nerfed. Before the rework killer was being carried hard by Pop Goes the Weasel.
I often play DBD with one or two people who are not the strongest loopers and it is common to get three players out unless someone got tunneled early.
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DH is not garbage. I've watched my girlfriend successfully use it over a dozen times tonight to extend chases and safe herself.
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Not only is it a good perk, but it's also a lot of fun to use. In fact, I even love going against it. A well pulled DH from the survivors makes me kinda happy. I think it's one of the best changes they've ever made. I wouldn't mind if they increased the time from 0.5 back to 1 second, but it's a nice perk either way.
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It should get deleted, a perk gives 3 health states and possible more isnt fine.
- Chasing for too long and suddenly DH extend the chase instead of a down
- Killers cant abandon the chase at that point because they cant chase someone else and go back seeing you full health with DH ready again, reset all progress
- Killers think its fair to tunnel because DH give 2nd health when you're injured
I believe killers get habit of tunneling because of old DH, it punishes fair play Killers more than tunnelers
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Damn how's it feel being so salty? This game has never been good for new survivors or casual players. Before the last update it wasn't as bad now if you are casual you might as well not play and if you play soloq its hot garbage. Which btw we have all known that soloq has been bad for about 6 years so yea I think its you that needs to understand the fundamentals of the game bud. Please though continue to be salty.
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I'm not upset but it seems you are. Solo que has been fine if you are a red rank player. Before we had the emblem system it was very easy to run the killer for a long time never touch a gen and still pip. The game lost something when it started looking at escapes as wins and everything else was a loss.
If you are constantly losing all your games while playing solo queue then you are the common denominator there. Yes sometimes you will get crap teams but you should expect you will get carried by good players just as often. Simply put most people can't carry. It takes a long time to get to the point where you are comfortable in chases much less being able to lead the killer on long chases where two to three gens pop.
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Honestly?
DH scales with skill. The better you are (generally), the more use you'll get out of DH.
That's how all perks should be and I am genuinely shocked at how good of a rework DH got.
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Solo que has been fine
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New Dead Hard is still insanely good, I'd argue it's even better in some circumstances. It just isn't mindless anymore.
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"From my perspective"
I think I found your issue chief.
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You can get a lot of value out of new DH when it is timed correctly.
Hoever, 0.5 second is really ridiculously hard to time, especially since there is an arbitrary delay that is applied before giving you the Endurance effect, so you have to keep it in mind. Plus some languages literally don't have the right info in the perk description, which is why some foreign players will miss their window 90% of the time.
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Yeah man, Killers totally didn't have any strong perk that were turned into garbage. *laughs in Hex: Ruin*
It's almost like Patch 6.1 wasn't meant to balance every single Killer and Survivor perk to the same strength but to change the meta. Yet that didn't really happen with Dead Hard, now did it? It is still among the most popular Exhaustion perks. Crazy, huh?
Maybe we should write a letter to BHVR? "We want 3 health states every single chase!". That should bring the old DH back.
Post edited by DarkMyst on1 -
DH is still a good perk, it just takes skill to use.
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Are you seriously trying to say pre-nerf Dead Hard wasn’t OP? LMAO
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It's so hit and miss now though.
Old DH was a high risk, high reward. If you knew how to play it well, it was extremely op.
New DH is very high risk, but low/mid reward. At best, it's going to add maybe a couple of seconds or an extra loop to your chases. Even the really good survivors I've played against usually go down shortly after they pop it.
I don't think it should go back to old DH, but it's super buggy on console atm.
Sprint Burst on the other hand, is a nightmare. If they know how to bait and loop. It's over.
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The 'high risk' of using Dead Hard for certain distance when you know the killer can't do anything about it. LMAO
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It doesn't work half of the time even with good timing it's too inconsistent, it was fine on PTB with 1 second duration instead of 0.5, now it's only good for auto dead hard cheaters
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You are categorically wrong.
- Dead Hard was busted. The fact that this was approaching 75-80% usage rates at higher MMRs indicates this pretty hard.
- The new DH is excellent, now that people are getting used to it. Go watch Ayrun or some of the other HCS streamers, and you'll see just how strong it can be.
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You mean it just requires a bit of skill and timing now? I get good use out of it, but only with planning, it's hard to use on reflex. If you could consistently trigger it 100% of the time it would be broken af.
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Cause old dh was undeniably busted... You got so much for doing so little. At least with sprint burst you need to 99 it to use it mid chase and sometimes that even required you to leave a gen. With DH you could just... get injured and wooo free distance and I frames for the press of a button no timing and skill required.
Now of course I'm talking about dh for distance pre-rework which was never intended. The intended use of DH will always be a gimmick which anyone can agree if they play fighting games, isn't supposed too always be reliable.
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Even then if the killer had an insta down. You could just stay injured to still have a guaranteed 2 health states. I've seen people stay injured against a curve billy JUST to dh curves because it was just that easy.
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can’t relate. I get tons of value every game. Must be a skill issue lul.
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DH is now 50% Skill Issue 50% Ping issue
Not even "git gud". its affected by server ping and the killer's ping. Back in my day we called it Floor Hard, cuz you were just Exhausted on the floor and it NEVER worked hardly for ANYONE.
But I see people using proficiently all the time now. More so than before actually.
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Even with the Killer buffs they recently got, don't you still get more distance from a successful DH now than before (on account of the speed boost from tanking a hit plus the hit cooldown for Killer)? I think it is overall weaker than old DH (as it should be), but the reward for a successful DH should be higher than old DH (which makes sense since it is no longer free distance), no?
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Hence why I said that this game has never been good for new or casual players. If a game requires you to have thousands of hours to be able to play and not loose every single match then there is a fundamental problem with the game. Dead hard is now one of those perks that if you don't have thousands of hours in the game you will probably miss the activation therefore the devs are further alienating new and casual players.
I get that SWF is op but SWF is only a small portion of the games that any normal killer runs into. Even in high MMR I would be surprised if a killer was running into SWF in 50% of their games, its probably a lot less than that. So I guess you haven't been on the forums that much since the update and seen the massive outcry of people saying how soloq is terrible? Saying that people losing all their games in soloq is the common denominator is a farce because I've seen streamers with 6k hours lose on soloq because either MMR pairings are garbage or the killers are just too op that they can't manage.
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I don't think he was saying that per-nerf DH was op, because it definitly was. I think he is saying that half a second is too low because even a little latency or lag can screw you out of its activation.
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-"I get that SWF is op but SWF is only a small portion of the games that any normal killer runs into."
I played about 10 games last night as killer and with the exception of one game where I didn't know every other game featured SWF. You can look at the player profiles and see they are on each other's friends lists. The last game was against a streamer and I could hear their friends voices in their stream (I don't watch just listen to counter balance SWF).
There's also just a manner of playing where they always go for the same gens and don't waste any time on the "wrong" gens. Solo players don't do that.
Throwing my personal experiences out the window : the devs said years ago that at that point in time more 50% of the player base were playing SWF games. I suspect that number has gone up given the state of solo queue.
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Where are you getting your information from? Please post a source because after doing research for about 30 min this is all I have been able to find about the number of players that play SWF. When I talk about SWF I'm talking 3-4 man teams 2 man SWF doesn't do anything if you get paired with 2 players that aren't your skill level. So there is about 13% that are 3-4 man SWF. I know these figures are from 2020 but I cant find anything more recent and I'm sure it hasn't changed much. My best educated guess based off these numbers is that you have 20% 3-4 man SWF in the game that leaves a whopping 80% that is 2man or soloq. Please post sources for when the devs said 50% because its hard to believe when I have sources that say otherwise.
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Yes and no. Like I said, it's entirely skill reliant. You can definitely get value out of it in certain scenarios like being dead zoned or right at a pallet. But for the most part, the lack of dash now took away it's God looping power when using it for distance to reach pallets and vaults. On top of that, if the killer misses or you screw the timing (which is incredibly shaky currently) you are literally dead as you've gained nothing. Hence, the aforementioned risk/reward ratio.
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"according to killers"
It had an 80% useage rate at high mmr. Or is this gonna be the ever popular "just because everyone uses it doesn't mean it's strong!"
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It is though. They can wait out .5 seconds, or miss, fake the M1, or you can screw the timing and then you're dead on ground. Nothing is certain.
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DH'ing over bear traps or into safe windows and pallets was pretty mindless.
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-"Where are you getting your information from? Please post a source"
The last time the devs gave us info they told us more than 50% of games played included SWF. That graph doesn't mean what you think it means when you look back at the original dev stream. If you play 20 games a night in a SWF and there are 4 casual players who play 5 games solo that equals out.
The same graph you are referencing was either designed to be misleading or was made unintentionally to give the wrong idea to anyone looking.
If I recall that is the same stream that gave us the information that SWF teams had a 15% escape advantage. There was no mention however of planned nerf to SWF - even though freddy got nerfed for having a 4% too high kill rate.
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