I don't know, but prove thyself maybe is becoming a problem, combined with other gen speed perks.
Five matches with at least 2 proves and others gen speed perks to rush... Aaaaa... My sanity.
4 matches trying to learn Wesker needle hitbox, in the 5° match think "I going with legion with my slowdown build" (Plaything, pentimento, daylight, thanatophobia) add-ons (Legion pin - broken status on survs and Iridescent button - vault break pallets)
1 DC when I down him, other killed himself on hook and then GG, 4K, sanity restored.
But man... Going against gen rush builds with 4 strong medkits and boon CoH, is not cool.
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PT makes the games fast as before. BUT the survivor that uses it basically is playing with one perk less and is forced to repair gen with another survivor that is inefficient and risky.
I think it is fine.
Use discordance to counter, not only to disturb a gen with 2 or more survivors but also to take track of the survivor that always try to repair with the others in order to tunnel him.
Obv if you use PT you can't blame the killer to tunnel you out once he understand you have the perk.
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Yes, I see that matches that I remove discordance was hard to do something, with discordance was 50/50, depending the way a played good or bad.
I see some people saying to bring discordance because of this.
Main perk I guess.
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It isn't just Prove Thyself but the combination of several gen speed perks. I have had problems with my team members wasting time and not doing gens or going down within seconds of starting a chase. I bring in Overzealous and Prove Thyself due to BHVR having you spawn next to teammates 90% of the time even in solo queue. BNP on a commodious is also very strong giving a free 25% of a generator then still having 90% of the toolbox. Basically it is the stacking of perks and powerful items that is the problem and BHVR's tendency to force the killer to waste perk slots on combating one temporary thing(Shatter Hope) instead of limiting the effectiveness or use of the other side.
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I've barely noticed the 10 second gen time increase. It feels the same because PT exists. I see a lot of games where gens FLY. (That stridor challenge was a great example of it)
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Me too, 10s more for gen is nothing because PT and with the new prestige, everyone have PT
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Before we had 80 seconds gen, BT, DS, DH and unbreakable or CH.
- Now 90 seconds gen but with PT they are back to 80. The advantage is they have to waste a perk and repair together that is risky.
- BT now do not need a perk, so the perk lost with PT is recovered, 10 seconds instead of 10 but also haste.
- DH is still staple, but weaker 90% of times.
- Instead of DS we have nor OtR, same protection, do not stack with BT, can't be used in the endgame.
- Ub or CH are the perks you can fins, they are still the same, or maybe you can fins something else like Deliverance.
Basically the meta is still similar, survs are weaker and the chases faster but just a bit.
And yes, with PT everywhere Discordance is now a must with any other thing that may punish survs from working together like eruption.
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Well, it was counteracted by running Ruin/Pop/Pain Res/Deadlock before update but 3 of them got nerfed (You cannot tell which Gen had most progress with PR for instance). You may argue PT was both nerfed with 10 extra charges but also buffed due to nerfs to bigger slowdown Perks.
Discordance helps but you will not be able to make value out of it on maps like Gas Heaven, Sanctum of Wrath, Mother's Dwelling and such because it's just not gonna work out.
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A gen solo takes 90 seconds.
2 people working on a generator with PT takes 45 seconds.
3 people working on a generator with PT takes 30 seconds.
PT doesn't reduce the time to work on a generator, it removes the self debuff survivors have when working together on a generator. It's not exactly strong at the start of the game, but it's strong with 1-2 generators left when you want to focus on one specific generator.
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Time to learn nurse
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This maps, the nightmare of everyone that is not using blight or nurse in the moment, you need to play very well to try something against good survivors.
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Imo, Prove is basically giving Survivor permament mini-Toolbox.
And you only need 2 of them from whole team to massively pressure Killer.
It's like old Dead Hard. Very strong overall, very non-interactive. It's also one of few Perks that heavily can throw Killer's game sense off.
Yeah, this Perk is, at least execution-wise, very broken.
I don't think toning down numbers will help.
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It doesn’t remove the debuff completely, it balances it out a tiny bit. You are still taking a penalty just not a heavy one.
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No, it actually does remove it entirely. The penalty is exactly the same as the bonus PT gives.
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My current goto build includes Discordance because of the popularity of Prove Thyself. Normally I don’t run Discordance because it encourages survivors to split up but when they run Prove Thyself they’re trying to intentionally not do that so Discordance is a good counter.
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no it isn't. It's not additive it's multiplicative. It's taking the charges you repair at based on how many people then multiplying it by 15% and adding the result on top. With two people you repair at .85 charges a second. with prove it's about .98.
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Prove thyself is not as efficient as players make it out to be. Numerically speaking, you're still better off splitting on 3 separate gens while one person takes aggro.
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Combined with HF or another gen speed perk like resilience, a good toolbox with BNP, or just a regular toolbox, it's disgusting.
It's part of the game... Is, but... 5 matches consecutives against this is...
And then I see survivors complaining about tunnel and camping when you chase 1 surv down him in 30 to 40s and BOOM, 2 gens completed.
Discordance is one of my main perks now.
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I think most players are like me we run PT only for easy 10k in objective, which means the proper way to nerf PT is to delete bonus points from the perk and buff normal score events to make it easier to max objective without any perk, then most people will stop using it
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Now that you said... Probably, like BBQ and make more sense now that survs have a 100% BP bonus, is probably because that I have seeing a lot of PT.
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The solution is easy.
1) Run discordance;
2) BHVR should nerf the TB or make the rare one really rare.
PT by itself is perfectly fine, it is even more risky with killers that can punish crowded survs like bubba, or legion...
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While I just checked and it is true, at 2 and 3 survivors it respectively adds 1 and 3 seconds to the time it would take if the bonus was additive.
However at 4 survivors the difference is quite bigger, as every survivor repairs at 0.8 times the normal speed.
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Tbf, there shouldn't be any coop score events, it's beyond stupid. The game rewards with bloodpoints the action of not splitting in gens. Which is sub optimal.
I never do gens solo because of that even when I can clearly finish one.
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Can someone give me the long version of every shortcuts in this topic?
I am new and not that smart right now:
PT=?
BT=?
DH=?
CH=?
DS=?
Ub=?
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It's the fact that certain perks have become on the same level as what was there before
It's a live service game... they are always adding (removing) and changing things...
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All of them are perk names.
PT = Prove Thyself
BT = Borrowed Time
DH = Dead Hard
CH = Circle of Healing
DS = Decisive Strike
UB = Unbreakable
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yes repairing a gen alone should give more points it's too long to max objective without prove thyself, literally you need to repair 5 gens by yourself it's stupid.. buff normal score events for repairing and delete bonus points from prove thyself and you won't see it anymore
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This! Killers just got easy time after 6.1 and want it to remain the same. It's not imaginable, that their mmr got higher and they play against better survivors now that split on gens (so first chase takes longer and it's not that rare killers get 3 gens completed by the time of 1st hook).
PT is actually bad perk until last 2 gens. It encourages to coop single gen that is risky AND it's still slower. The only real value from this perk is when survivors need to coop to remove that problematic gen at the very end.
And if you don't think it's skill issue (and better survivors just being more efficient with gens), just check hours (individually it's not good metrics, but over 10+ games it gives a good picture of the state we are in). Survivors now loose even against killers with half the hours/experience then before 6.1
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The math ain't quite mathin here.
A gen takes 90 seconds solo. And you said that the whole team had medkits so not toolboxes or BNP in play. Only 2 people had Prove thyself....
How was your match 3 minutes long??? were you standing in a corner not pressuring anyone? and even then, I still don't think you can get out of a match in 3 minutes
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I never said anything about kills, I just saying that PT on every match MAYBE is becoming a problem combined with other gen speed perks and toolboxes, I have a lot of matches that I 3K or 4K against these builds, playing correctly and tunneling a bit.
Read the post man
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this was exaggerated, i know no match lasts 3min, I need to attract people for some conversation like you, but the point is gen flaying around with gen speed perks combined with PT or just PT by him self, feel free to comment your opinion.
Remember I not affirming anything MAYBE is becoming a problem.
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luckily there aren't too many 4 man gen spawns on most maps. That being said if the killer is letting you get away with that then what the heck is going on? KIller must be doing a blindfold gaming challenge.
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It did happen to me the other day that all 5 gens got completed in under 3 minutes but it was probably a cheater. No PT, not a single generator perk, and I hooked someone within the first 30 seconds of the game (while having seen the others run)
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90 seconds without skill checks. However, if you have Prove along with Hyperfocus, repair together with someone and win perfect checks consistently it's entirely possible to complete the generator faster than m1 killer can traverse most maps between generators.
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I love when people say PT is not that good yet it shows up in damn near every single game now 😂
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PT saves ~7 seconds on duo-ing a gen(53->46),~10s on a trio gen (43->33) and ~13s on a quad gen (41->28). In most scenarios it would be better for those players to still solo gens at 90s solo, 92 double duo, 99 triple trio, and 112 full squad 4 gens, and that doesn't even account for movement time between gens. The only time it realistically saves time, is when competing against a 3 gen, and the killer has to bounce between the 2 edges of their 3 gen. Also if PT is this impossibly OP perk, why not use it's hard counter Discordance?
In short the problem isn't PT, it is solo-ing gens.
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Discordance.
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A change the title, 3 min is just a click bait, attract people to some discuss, but is causing some misunderstanding, but I probably know why in some matches the gens are just flying, a combination with, hyper focus and a detective tepp perk that I don't remember the name, the others two perks you choose, more gen speed or second chance.
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That's why I put "maybe" on title, I will not talk s... In something that I don't have 100% sure about.
A change some perks and try others strategies, try to protect more my gens and yes... PT is not a problem at all, even without discordance, "now that I becoming better".
It's more PT combined with others perks like hyper focus, resilience, some toolboxes or whatever more gens speed that survs have.
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I feel like survivors are forced to run PT and other gen perks because far too many killers have 4 gen slowdown perks so if PT is getting nerfed they should nerf the gen slow down perks also. And yeah you may not have any gen slowdown perks but when the killer does have more than one the games can get miserable without PT.
Also as many have pointed out, the counter to that is just to bring discordance. Once they realize you have it, most avoid working on gens together despite having PT unless the killer is busy elsewhere.
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Yeah, I found that the perks that make gen fly is hyper focus combined with a detective tepp perk and PT just boost that a little not much, but boost.
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