General Discussions
General Discussions
Cleansing Dulls. Is it throwing?
Many seem to think thesedays it is outright throwing the game to cleanse dull totems, thoughts?
Comments
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I dont see how it can be throwing. It counts towards the Boldness Emblem and helps prevent NOED.
Post edited by get_barted on19 -
Many seem to think that they have control or a say in what you do. They do not. You go to town on that totem and get your points, for all you know you just cleansed the last totem on the map and saved everyone from NOED at the endgame.
And cleansing totems does not throw the game.
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It isnt necessarily throwing. You get bloodpoints. The task doesnt take that long. Also works well with certain perks in play (both sides).
If I ever see a dull totem super close to hook I will always cleanse it to prevent a potential uncounterable NOED situation.
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Depends on how it's done. Knowing where a dull is and cleansing it between either being in a chase or repairing a generator - IE, the actual direct contributions to the trial - is perfectly fine even without any perks that proc off cleansing dulls.
If you've got those perks, though, you're obviously doing fine. Getting value from your perks between chases and generators is actively good in most cases.
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No. It can prevent NOED, it can remove dulls for Undying to send a Hex to, it might be for Inner Healing or Overzealous, or a number of other totally legitimate reasons.
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Yes.
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If Pentimento is in play, yes. With the NOED nerf, debatably yes. If someone in the team has Circle of Healing, yes. If you have Inner Healing and no CoH in play, no.
If you’re going to do it, just make sure you’re not leaving remaining dulls near the basement and/or exit gates.
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Free 1000 points. Get that bag and don't worry about what your team thinks.
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The problem is that if the killer is smart, you're not going to know Pentimento is in play until several totems are already cleansed. And it's not run nearly enough to assume it is.
To me, cleansing dulls is always kind of a 50/50 in terms of potential value/risk. Then only times I've gotten mad at a teammate for doing it is when I have seen them cleansing a dull at a really time sensitive point on the game, when there is something else they should obviously be doing.
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Basically, there are two types of throwing. Soft and hard. Yes, cleansing dulls is soft throwing. It is not bannable. You are not griefing by doing it. But you are still throwing, more or less. We all know it is true which is why the responses here are so defensive.
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It can be interpreted as such. Without inner healing or other totem cleanse perks it does nothing to progress the game and if others have boons and you know that then yes it’s 100% throwing. They absolutely need to change this tome challenge to something else. Things like ‘I don’t care what my team mates think’ when you know you are doing something counter productive is also throwing the game. The fact it gives blood points also does not change the fact it can be throwing the game.
It was never good at countering NoED before because it was always better to leave it and know where a totem was rather then cleanse 4 and it be the most asinine difficult totem to find and now it basically tells you where it is.
However can you get away with throwing the game? Lol of course you can.
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it's free bp so idc really
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Depends on when you cleanse them. So, it's a 50/50 situation.
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It is absolutely throwing, you are not only wasting 15 sec of time but also preventing your teammate with a boon perk to use it. The extremely minor chance of cleansing NOED pre-emptively (good luck to cleanse 5 totems in solo queue, literally never seen that happen in hundreds games) is by far offset by the much more serious risks you are putting yourself at if the killer has Undying or Pentimento.
That said, it is not any less throwing than 90% of the Rift challenges
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Depends on what's going on. If 2 gens have popped and the killer lacks pressure then there's no harm being done.
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No. Look for and cleanse as many as possible. Don't worry about gens, you've got plenty of time to spare...
While you're at it, make sure to randomly jump in and out of lockers, and miss a few skill-checks here and there. Us killers hate it when you do that.
Post edited by JacobiusWick on8 -
Yes. You're risking free Pentimento tokens for the killer and losing a potential boon spot, not even mentioning the gen time lost. Only cleanse dulls if the killer is losing terribly and you don't want the game to end too fast.
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If there's Pentimento or there's something that pressingly needs to be done and you're doing bones instead, yes. That or you know one of your teammates has a boon and you're getting rid of a really good totem spot - which isn't throwing, but it's definitely net unhelpful to lose a great CoH spot because you wanted an Inner Strength instead.
Otherwise, nah, it's no more throwing than doing chests or setting up Exponential is throwing. Is it the best use of your time, no; are there reasons you might want to do it, yes; will it kill you to do it, probably no.
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With the addition of boons cleansing a totem that isn't a hex totem is detrimental to your team in solo queue.
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People use the term "throwing " very loosely these days. Survivor game play got a lot tighter, but you still got a bit of leeway and can afford to play a bit suboptimal without "outright throwing".
CoH is nearly always the best way for survivors to utilise totems, but for a while I ran a total bone hunter build and cleansed all 5 totems. I prevented a few NOEDs this way, but it didn't happen often enough to warrant "doing bones" all the time, which I personally find sad. So please give killers a one-down basekit NOED so that we all can do bones as much as we want :>
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Before CoH was heavily nerfed, I would have agreed. But people don't boon every game, or even every other game, in my recent experience.
And if there is some goober on my team going around throwing down Shadow Step or Dark Theory boons or something, I might cleanse all the bones out of spite, lol
In fact, I could argue that using any non-CoH boon (or least least blessing a totem without CoH) is a much bigger throw than cleansing dulls.
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First off play however you want. If you want 1k bp and the emblem points of cleansing then you go for it.
But objectivelly
You are kinda throwing when you cleanse dulls in most cases. Not hard throwing or anything but it certainly isn't playing effective
It ofcourse depends a lot on what happens but most of the time it isn't a good idea
Preventing Noed doesn't matter if the gens never get done
Again play however you want. But if you personally want to win more often. It is just better to leave that totem be 95% of the time
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'Throwing' is a bit of a stretch, but unless you are doing it to charge Inner Healing, it does decrease your team's chances to win.
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its not throwing unless you know theres pentimento.
then its most definitely throwing
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Almost never.
Dull totems are worth 1k points each, almost as much as a full solo gen. Hex totems are worth 1.5k each, more than one full gen.
Cleanse all five dulls, 5k BPs. If the killer is running Pentimento, now you can cleanse hex totems for 6k* BPs. Total of 11k* BPs if you get 5/4 dull/hex (*never let the killer get a 5 stack penti, making all hex totems inaccessible).
All of which contributes to your Objective Emblem. While doing this it's keeping the killer occupied re-igniting totems and looking for who's taking out the totems while other survivors are on gens.
The number of killers I've seen running Pentimento in their build I can count on one hand out of hundreds of matches.
Helps prevent NOED, which you won't know until the killer has downed someone with it. I've run into far more killers running NOED than Pentimento.
Taking out totems is also good for grabbing some BPs when it's down to two survivors left with multiple gens up and the killer is camping a slug/hook or the other survivor is waiting for you to get found first.
Totems are such a nice point booster and killer perk counteractivity that even if the trial is a failure from the start (ex: not even 60 seconds in and two survivors are already hook trading in the killer's face) that you should try to get some of them done, so you have at least a chunk of points to double with the permanent survivor BP incentive in case you don't make the hatch/exit gate.
With how terrible solo queue is anymore I've started running Small Game on most of my survivors to act as easy/quick point radar, even if just running between gens.
If you find out another survivor is running Boons, leave at least two totems up, one on each side of the map. Unless the booner isn't running at least CoH, then crunch them all.
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It's not throwing if you know the game is going well enough for ou to take the time to do it. (let's say 3 gens done and no hooks from the killer)
It's kinda unproductive when the killer already have a teammate dead next hook and there are 4 gens left.
Usually the best is to note the location of the totems and check at end game if you see the aura to counter NOED.
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I think someone dont play the game since a loooooong time. When u use hex undying and a hex both totem are lit but the first one to be cleansed will be always undying and you can get cleansed both at same time
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It doesn't prevent NOED. You wont get to the endgame cleansing 5 dulls, you don't have the time. Might as well proc the last gen and check for the NOED totems, which now even has aura reading for the casuals.
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And towards which objective does it count towards? Does it repair gens for you?
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It does not count towards the Objective. The Objective is: Repair 5 Generators and open the Exit Gates. Dull Totems do nothing for that.
@Topic:
Cleansing Dull Totems is throwing the game. For a few BPs, which you will most likely get anyway, since Boldness is easy to get, you are wasting time on something which is not your Objective.
And while you are not on a Gen you have to rely on another Teammate to do more of the Objective. And you dont do anything when you cleanse a Dull Totem. Because when you cleanse 1 Totem, you dont prevent NOED or anything. You might even give the Killer a Pentimento-Stack. Doing one Totem is wasted time, doing 5 even more if the Killer does not have NOED.
And in the end, if you are doing it for NOED, you are wasting time for a Perk the Killer might not even have.
So, yeah, unless you have a challenge, cleansing Dull Totems is basically always a No.
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just wait out if someone has COH or the totem is in a very obvious spot.
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Yes it is throwing. Especially now since Pentimento exists and how NOED has been nerfed.
Against a good killer, you need all the time you can get. Everyone should be on gens or healing if they are not in a chase. There is no reason to cleanse dull totems other than for BP or to poorly try to counter NOED (unless you're in a full SWF, knowing you have time).
A few days ago a Feng was cleansing dull totems at the start of the match on Midwich. Unfortunately we soon found out the killer had Pentimento, yet we didn't know where she cleansed the dull totems (and btw she kept on cleansing more). She wasted a lot of time cleansing and bought a lot of time for the killer as I painstakingly repaired gens.
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Is it throwing ?
Sometimes.
Should it be throwing ?
Never.
It's just that currently, doing any other objective than gens is often awarded with a hatch game, since gens take longer and chases are shorter.
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This is like saying "is doing gens throwing" when it results in a 3 gen.
You don't know that you're forming a 3 gen, and you may not be, but gens need to be done either way. Every action has the potential to lead to an unfavourable condition later in the game with an uncoordinated team.
If you're running Inner Healing, Overzealous, Clairvoyance, etc. then the results of cleansing could be worth it. If the killer is running Pentimento, then its your responsibility to remember which totems you've already cleansed and redo them. Ignoring all totems on the possibility that the killer might be running Pentimento is being overcautious.
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I think the effectiveness or efficiency of cleansing totems can be debated (since it is useful in objective points). It’s not throwing though. We’re human players not bots - failing to take the collectively decided perfect, calculated action at any given time is not ‘throwing’ anything.
It’s like saying ‘running anything but meta perks is throwing’, or ‘not being great at looping is throwing’.
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When I have CoH equipped and desperately search for a totem, only to find broken ones. Then yes.
When I'm not using CoH, then absolutely not.
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I run Inner Strength. So, no, it's not throwing. It's survival. If Pentimento is in play, I'll stop.
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You are correct. It counts towards boldness emblem which helps you PIP up. So how is it throwing a game if you are trying to PIP?
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Lots of things that can lead to a pip can mean ultimately throwing the game for your team if we are talking about "winning" (3 escape for survivor). Healing against Legion/Plague, going for sabotage plays, instant saving on hook even if its a guaranteed trade, camping a god pallet to get a stun when not needed, etc.
All these can help you pip but if we are assuming the killer and survivors are on an equal playing field and both are playing for their sides ultimate win condition, they can easily create a situation where your team is at a distinct disadvantage.
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I think in a lot of cases, doing dull totems is not a good thing for the team. Yes, it gives you points. But the real reason before was noed, which is now not a big problem anymore, because you get only one down with it anyway (unless survivors are potatoes).
Yet, i had several games where my boon:CoH became useless because a survivor with a map just did all totems, robbing me of that perk (and self caring themself if they got hit, wasting even more time).
And lastly, Hex: Pentimento is a thing that happens in my games, at least.
Is it throwing the game? Na, not really. However, you make it a lot harder for your team because you waste time and rob them of resources they might need.
So it all depends, doing a dull totem you come across is ok but unnecessary, going out to look for every totem is a big waste of time imo.
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It depends. Do you only care about BP? Then no. Do you have a perk related to breaking dulls. Then also no. But besides that it usually is bad play since you're screwing over people bringing CoH and wasting time.
I don't buy the "oh I'm just preventing NOED" argument because 1. You don't know they have NOED. and 2. You can see the totem aura now so it's extremely easy to find when you need to do it. 3. You're only "preventing NOED" if you're committing to breaking all 5 totems which takes waaaaay too long. In reality you're just breaking a totem that was easy to find and making sure the killer gets a better NOED location later on.
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You do realize there are perks in this game that require you to cleanse totems, right?
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But you and your team are better off not running those perks, unless you have a Rift challenge to cleanse totems. Run a more impactful perk.
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Who are you to tell people what perks to run? Running same meta perks over and over is boring. Just because you can't get value from off meta perks doesn't mean others can't.
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You’re welcome to run whatever you want. But for reasons previously discussed by myself and others, you are throwing by cleansing dull totems outside of a few scenarios. For that reason I would advise not running perks that require cleansing dull totems. Plenty of other non-meta options for you that fit that criteria.
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So if someone is running Cleansing build and is cleansing a dull totem they are throwing? Oh please enlighten us how is that throwing?
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It’s already been shared. You don’t need to cleanse dull totems to power the exit gates, but you do need to get five generators fully repaired. By spending time cleansing dull totems, you actively take precious repair time away from the team. You don’t know if the killer has NOED and/or Pentimento or not. Further, if it’s an obvious totem spawn, it may leave NOED for a more obscure totem spawn later. You may also be denying a chance for a teammate to boon a totem, especially the most powerful boon: Circle of Healing.
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But then again you don't know if any other Survivor has COH...
Just like one doesn't know what the Killer is running
Why just leave those BP behind (this is one reason Survivors don't get that many BP)
Even if Pentimento is being played just remember to check the Totems you have cleansed (and cleanse them again if they are back)
So what about Shattered Hope and Boons... cause that would be considered throwing as well
Why does is matter if a Survivor cleanses a Totem... this is confusing
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Running Small Game and knowing where the killer is/will be, you can run though most maps in 30 seconds or less panning the camera around and find the locations of 3-5 totems. Any you don't get can get picked up as you move around otherwise. The number of trials that have been lost or almost lost from NOED due to me being the only one cleansing totems is rather sickening, and the cause for running Small Game. It's what prompted me to be the designated totem cleanser in every group. Being able to find most/all of the totems in that short of a time is far superior of an objective than 30secs on one gen, particularly when there are three other people working gens. Not to mention taking out any other hex that the killer may be running.
If you can't get to endgame while taking out totems, that group wasn't going to make endgame to begin with, and it's good you got a chunk of points before the wipe.
According to the BHVR and the points you get in-trial, yes, it counts towards the trial Objectives.
It would seem the game itself disagrees with you. If every trial you've ever had was just repair gens and leave, I pray I get some of the killers you've gone against the whole time.
NOED isn't the only perk a killer can run, and finding/taking out all dull/hex totems goes a long way towards limiting any hex perks a killer has at all (not just NOED), but it also provides a sense of security that all you have to do now is gens. No slowdown/Exposed/window+pallet blocking/etc. is going to be happening.
It's surprising still seeing people pop-up on this thread harping about Pentimento. I've no idea how this perk causes so many problems for players. You cleansed a dull totem, you know where it was. You get a sense it's active from repair/heal slowdown and there's no obvious other cause, go back and check for a hex, cleanse it if there is one. One survivor out of four is doing this, while one out of one killers is kept busy trying/failing to get Penti stacks and/or locate who is taking out their Penti totems. The other three survivors are using this time to work gens (since from reading several posts on this thread it seems that's all some of them will do anyway).
Plus, many killers who run Penti also run another Hex, knowing that it'll probably be found in the first minute and taken out, hoping no survivor will go back and check for a second hex in the same spot.
Escaping a trial having personally or as a team taken out all five totems and seeing the killer was running NOED (or causing/hearing more than one hex explosion during the trial) is almost as satisfying as DCing out of a Nurse trial.
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Very well said! :)
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