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Can a BHVR official PLEASE explain the current state of Shadowborn and FOV?
It's absurd! There's a perk that changes FOV and nothing else, and all it does is make it feel better to play. Countless people have made posts like this, but my point is: Can a community manager or developer please say SOMETHING about why it is like this, and if/when they will change it? Countless people would appreciate it, as a reworked shadowborn and an added FOV slider would make killer feel so much better without needing a perk. Competetive games like Rainbow 6 Siege already have a generous FOV slider, so it clearly won't negatively impact the game.
Please, may we have some feedback on this?
Comments
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release me from my motion sickness hell bhvr
please
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Playing killer with 4 perks is my long dream
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The field of vision is that way so survivors can use stealth in a chase, and get overlooked if you turn a corner. If you take that away, what will you give survivors to compensate that?
I mean, stealth is nerfed more than enough, and i dont mean iron will (although its next to impossible to juke a killer in a chase now), but every map rework made stealth way harder (unless you just hide when you hear a heartbeat; that still works, but juking a killer in a chase, when there is only one line-of-sight-blocker with only one place to go?).
I mean i am not opposed to a quality of life update, but you have to consider why its there, and we dont need to screw the balance even more in favor of the killer.
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survivors should not have an fov slider due to them being in 3rd person
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Noone is asking for FOV slider for survivors. As you said, they play in 3rd person already
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I have played with shadowborn alot, and it is very much still possible to hide from a killer. Stealthing is mostly about hiding behind objects, not jukes like that, which are stlil possible.
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They already get a third person camera as their compensation. I think thats a much bigger strength than gimmicky FoV jukes that rarely work.
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Id love a response as well. You cannot say for spine chill "we don't want accessibility to be locked behind perks" and ignore motion sick people.
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Dbd mobile has shadowborn basekit
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It also has better skins and moris lol.
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Honestly, only 'bad' players aren't gonna see a survivor hiding in a corner, regardless of FOV.
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The majority of DBD players are bad players.
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Accessibility to prevent migraines is more important than an incredibly tiny advantage.
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I’ve been wanting to use 4 perks while having playable fov cause I hate feeling like my face is pushed up against glass while playing dbd
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I see it as a balance thing. Wider FOV provides an advantage, hence it being a perk. I mean it’s good enough that some of you never take it off, so clearly it is valuable. Sorry for you people with motion sickness though.
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They actually think being able to see is an advantage. With how nonsensical that stance is, you are NEVER going to get through to them. It is completely arbitrary.
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This Is Not Happening provides an advantage, and almost no one uses it. It's almost cause it's like the advantage is virtually negligible. And even if it did have a larger impact, it still wouldn't matter. Accessibility is more important. Rebalance around it.
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Very good meme pulsar
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To me, higher FOV is accessibility first and foremost. People can and will continue to get sick because the killer FoV is so bad. Their only option is to sacrifice a perk slot, essentially punishing them for something outside their control.
Does it provide an advantage? Yes, but any advantage it gives is perfectly justifiable if it lets people play the game without getting sick.
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The base fov really needs to be better for killer, and I don't care how the devs go about it as long as it gets done. I have friends who literally won't play killer because it makes them sick, the fov and all that.
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No trade-offs. Same blind angles as before, bigger fov for killer. It's how it should have been from the beginning.
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I mean... not to argue against this idea, but... Having it is better than not having it. That's kind of the definition of having an advantage.
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I get motion sickness. The only time I really get it while playing killer is if I run Monitor and Abuse, because the constantly shifting angle in and out of chase is extremely disorienting.
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But those people do have a perk for that. We are not talking about preventing migraines vs an advantage, we talking about a perkslot vs said advantage.
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Then make it base instead of a perk. That's the point.
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Then how to compensate the advantage you get? Killers are buffed enough as they are, why do they need more free advantages?
In my games, the 100% survivor bonus is basicly permanent, and still i play more killer at the moment, because solo queue has become not worth it. Why screw that even more in favor of killers?
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I do think the tunnel vision of killers is a huge mechanical choice so I respect not adding a slider. Too many stealth plays that happen like a every other survivor game basis wouldn't be possible with a greater FOV. I oppose an FOV slider and support the devs in that call.
BUT I think people who REALLY want increased FOV should get it. I think Shadowborn should stack with Monitor and Abuse and I think Shadowborn should be increased significantly. But I do think you should still use a perk slot for it, if you're gonna completely kill near killer juking stealth the cost is a slot.
I get why people think it's silly making a video setting a perk, but it's really mechanically necessary. People who favor stealth survivor builds would stop playing the game if they added a slider. The tunnel vision is mechanically important, I'm sorry people get motion sick, hopefully Shadowborn gets a buff and they allow it to stack with an also buffed Monitor and Abuse.
Hell maybe Shadowborn should just unlock a slider so you can still pick specifically what you like. "Shadowborn FOV" under settings. But you gotta spend a slot, it's not just an accessibility thing it's a tangible advantage.
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Shadowborn buffed to 30°, does not increase blind angles and it also once per generator, changes the aura colour when a survivor first touches a gen for 10s
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Thats cool and all, until they used accessibility as an excuse to buff spine chill in a way that has nothing to do with accessibility.
Not only was there no compensation, working against stealth killers had absolutely nothing to do with the accessibility application of the perk. Also survivors already have compensation by having third person perspective.
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FOV jukes don’t work on native if the killer has half a brain. "This survivor just vanished after (vault/stun/swing/whatever), there’s no tracks going anywhere else." There is literally nowhere else they could be other than below/behind the killer out of native FOV. And hiding on peripheral still doesn't work if the killer is an actually good player that knows they should be checking side to side to specifically prevent missing people on their periphery anyways.
And all of this still doesn’t matter, because accessibility is still more important. Are some colorblind settings easier to see scratch marks on some maps for? Sure. Does it matter? No. Would a visual heartbeat for TR for people hard of hearing be an advantage against quieter TRs even for people with normal hearing? Does it matter? No.
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Agreed and this sucks but can be made to where it's not like this wesker showed this there's is now (if there wasn't before)
A zone where surivors have to aim to Blind you it's a little bit smaller than most killers head but covers most of the face
(using trappr) as the default killer head
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Being able to juke a killer by crouching in front of them should not be a thing to begin with.
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I disagree. The FOV one is a fair place for the devs to hold their ground. For people who have big issues with motion sickness I'd just have to say I hope they buff Shadowborn so you at least have the option if you really need it. Balance is more important in this case.
Also FOV jukes work against comp killer mains. I just disagree with your entire point there. Maybe you haven't found that to be true but it sure seems to be viable at all levels of play to me.
There's really no other points I could bring up to at all sway you. We just hard disagree on both counts. Those being "would an FOV increase completely break the close range stealth or not? And if it would, would it even matter?" or "Regardless of if it breaks close range stealth or not, is accessibility more important?"
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I disagree. And the devs obviously do too because that's the only reason an FOV slider wasn't added for sure. I think it's part of the slasher film reenactment gameplay loop, even if it doesn't come up every game. The whole premise of this game is built on the tropes films from it's DLC features. What do you see in those films? Tense moments where the killer is mere INCHES away from the hiding person but they hold their breath and the killer barely decides to go check somewhere else. The FOV was tunnel vision-ed to allow for these situations easier.
I'm not saying the devs agreeing with me gives my argument anymore validity. The game does tons of stuff I think it really shouldn't. But in this case I think y'all are directly in conflict with important intentional game design. That's just me. I play both sides so if they DID add an FOV slider you bet I'm gonna use it.
The thing I always assumed it was, the red stain was supposed to show you exactly what the killer's range of vision is and added some strategy around staying out of it.
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I stand by the idea that they should sacrifice a slot. But maybe they could make it a generic non-teachable and give Wraith something new in it's place (all of his teachable suck). And also buff it and give it a bonus effect so it doesn't feel as much like a "this is a perk that I don't think gives me any advantage, I just NEED it to not get sick" situation.
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I like your attempt at trying to tie it into slasher tropes, but you know what you don't see? That same hiding mere inches from the killer but they did so after jumping through a window and then crouching next to it and waiting, or clinging to a wall immediately after running through a doorway. I mean sometimes you do see things like that, but its usually just before that person gets murdered.
Its also an especially moot point on that end because it defies how the killer would actually respond. People getting killed through props and bad hiding attempts is much more of a trope than them actually working, which fits with stuff like locker grabs. Frantic juke attempts not working is far more fitting than them succeeding, what you're talking about is more akin to the killer losing a survivor midchase and prioritizing the others/gens rather than committing, not "crouching to ghostface's left because he won't be able to find you through his silly mask." camera locking animations is bad enough, but thats a lot easier to accept from a balance standpoint and has less of an impact on actual accessibility.
On that note, yet another reminder that its an accessibility issue, that has been treated as an accessibility issue by countless games over the last few decades. Great for you if it doesn't affect you, but motion sickness affects a lot of people and adjusting the FoV is the universal method for alleviating that in the vast majority of cases. You do understand that it can affect your entire concepts of spatial awareness and depth perception, right?
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People against shadowborn being basekit have never played Sadako/Hag. It's just ridiculous how bad the camera is.
Not to say that the graphics seems like a 90's game.
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I'm willing to admit that maybe my stance is a tad flawed. But it's honestly how I feel. I think the FOV being the way it is successfully accomplishes the goal I believe it sets out to do, and the caveat that some people get sick playing killer simply doesn't bother me or change my stance. Are those bad priorities? Maybe.
But yeah the crouching in front of a killer to juke around them is a bit TOO silly to appear in one of these movies. But to be fair we don't have nearly as much to work with when it come to hiding as a horror flick protagonist.
That's kind of all I have to say on the matter. I believe I understand why the devs did it, and I agree with their continued choice to leave it the way it is, despite the large group of people who will keep getting nauseous playing killer. I hope they buff Shadowborn so those people at least have the option. I'd be perfectly ok with it straight up unlocking a slider in the settings but I do think that the FOV jukes are enough of a part of the game that it is an advantage you should have to pay a perk slot for.
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I agree, colorblind settings should've been a perk instead. Hard-of-hearing people should have to use Spine Chill. People who get migraines should have to play with only three perks.
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Harhar.
Fov has never been the same as those settings you've mentioned. I need only point at high level Quake. Do you think all competitive FPS players experience that kind of motion sickness? It's a take I'll continue to be flamed for but I really don't see a problem with keeping the FOV behind a perk in this game in particular. I think the perk should at least be better so that people who need it get the benefit.
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The devs did it for the same reason they make a lot of similar bad decisions, they overlooked considerations when designing it, and its a killer only issue. I know people like to use that to complain about outlandish things, but it actually carries weight in this case: Their reaction to spine chill is extremely telling, especially when compared to something like flashlight macros affecting photosensitive players. Both were accessibility oversights, and one has been an issue for years while they suddenly pivoted and snuck in unrelated buffs with the other. Accessibility is a topic that especially seems to have some extreme bias internally, likely due to how it is sometimes used intentionally with balance decisions.
Also, lastly "I agree with their continued choice to leave it the way it is, despite the large group of people who will keep getting nauseous playing killer." is a horrendous take to have if I'm being completely honest. You're flat out admitting that it makes the game near unplayable for a significant portion of people, but that they don't matter compared to things working how you want. You're allowed to have that take but don't expect anyone with a degree of empathy to endorse it.
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Fair. I get it's not very compassionate of me. I don't usually have motion sickness in games but I do have worse motion sickness than most. I can relate when it came to VR. I'm not trying to say people who need more FOV should just stop playing the game. I just think that yeah, all the people in this thread that play "3 perk killer" should just have to deal with playing 3 perk killer because for people who don't need it, it's a big enough advantage. I would love and support Shadowborn being buffed and given an additional effect to make these people feel like they can actually get use out of the perk instead of just having it steal a slot because it's something they see as a locked accessibility feature.
This will be the last post I make on this thread because clearly I lack any additional power to support my point, and even if I can fully support it when it comes down to it I just care more about keeping close range FOV jukes than the comfort of strangers/strangers right to feel like they can use all 4 perk slots. Does that make me an unempathetic jerk? Probably.
This is just how I feel and if an FOV slider was finally added I really wouldn't mind much. I'd love the advantage it would provide on my favorite killer, Deathslinger.
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Surprisingly respectful and level headed, even if the take itself isn't. Gotta give credit where due, you're being surprisingly mature about holding an immature perspective, and im saying that unironically. Felt the need to mention that because civility is always refreshing, especially when faced with more emotionally charged topics. Cheers.
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Thanks. I'm not trying to be mean. It's not as cut and dry as "people who need FOV for motion sickness should just deal" for me. It's just been my experience that the tunnel vision the killer has plays a lot into the outcome of a match. People who need more FOV for motion sickness struggles should be accommodated, and they are with a perk. So I call it solved there. I think since so many people find it an accessibility issue it should at least be more accessible.
I've said it a few times but to call everything out completely this is how I would do it. Make Shadowborn a non teachable that is available in the blood tree for all killers from the start and give Wraith a new perk in it's place. Shadowborn activates the Shadowborn FOV slider in the settings. Not sure what would be a good max for this slider but I'd be cool with 120 I think. Shadowborn should also have an additional effect that changes with the 3 rarities. Not entirely sure what would be good here. Maybe survivors visible within' your field of view suffer a debuff of some kind?
Now regardless of if you think FOV should be locked behind a perk or not, if they did all above that would be a lot BETTER than how it is now, right?
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I don't agree on the core concept that no accessability options should require a sacrifice by players to employ them, regardless of role or perspective. Conceptually you are literally punishing that person for their condition, and treating them like a second class customer besides. Life isn't fair and people will always have different difficulties, but games are a medium where they are designed rather than encountered. Not to mention enjoyed.
I just can't agree with putting that much effort into something like that based on its core premise. Obviously thought and consideration went into it, but its missing the bigger consideration that its forcing them to trade one handicap for another, all around something they can't control. I also don't think the low effectiveness of abusing FoV really justifies it, as its a type of mechanical exploit that is illogical: Most movements and interactions aren't tied to your vision. If someone was trying to FoV tech you in real life, you'd just crack them upside the head or swing your weapon in the general area they are in. Its a twofold issue in regards to relying both on the fact that the killer can't currently see you, as well as the fact that they can't blindly cover that area without needing to look.
That especially becomes important with abilities that need to be aimed, which is why it makes a last ditch effort vs killers like huntress having a hatchet wound at point blank works. Sure, it makes you harder to hit as you would expect, but its kinda silly when you think about the fact she could just decapitate you with the damn thing while you're dancing around trying to stay away from her line of sight, and highlights how unrealistic it is that she is locked into having to throw it at the very middle of where she is looking. I just can't see any reason to keep it other than personal preference.
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Alright. Agree to disagree.
Honestly I'm unsure if FOV has historically always been an accessibility option. In my mind it was always a preference thing for first person shooters. Some people like high FOV to see as much as possible, some people prefer a lower one to have everything at a more immersive less fishbowl angle. If it was added into games explicitly to address motion sickness then I'm willing to concede that it should be an option in every first person game and mechanics should not be built around low FOV.
But that's not been my understanding up until this point.
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The reason it has always been a preference with shooters is because it has to do with what you are watching misaligning with your internal balance. It was adapted to early fps in particular because of the speed of movement (especially in older ones) paired with the variety of display sizes and viewing distances making it a prime candidate for sensitivity in end users. And as that sensitivity leads to disproportionate affect in people's tolerance, it has been considered an accessibility issue since its inception. Technically most visual and sound options are considered accessibility related, since accessibility is usually what causes them to be options in the first place. Same with many input options as well. Its usually a matter of whether its due to how a user's imprairment or condition can be affected by a variable, and whether that variable can be adjusted to minimize or nullify said issue. Obviously some options are not that (including in the above categories,) but even things like motion blur or remapping controls are considered accessibility related.
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An FOV change is significant enough to change how easy or hard both sides are to play, similar to how stretched-res gave survivors an enormous advantage. Shadowborn is a perk because giving the FOV increase is an advantage.
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It does not matter whether or not it gives an advantage, let alone for something as small of an advantage as that. Accessibility is far more important and the game should be adjusted instead if that's what it takes to implement said accessibility features.
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Still... accessibility options shouldn't take up an in game perk. Still insane how we don't have visual heart beats yet, and we JUST only got color blindness settings last year for a game that was out in a time... WHERE THE ENGINE COULD IMPLEMENT IT IN THE GAME FOR THEM.
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