I am once again asking to change Thanatophobia again
Thanatophobia has had an interesting history.
It's been buffed numerous times, going from 15% max to 16% and then 20%. No one used it and it's easy to see why.
Thanatophobia is a perk that requires injuring people. At most, you're keeping 1-2 survivors injured at a time. So, that was around 8% to 10% slowdown, which while okay, was fiercely outclassed by other perks. It was a niche perk that never saw uses outside of two killers (Plague/Legion) despite repeated buffs.
Then came 6.1.0. Gen speeds were upped to 90 seconds base and for reasons, I still can't understand, Thana was buffed from 20% to 22%
Little hot take: Thana was overrated. It really was. Yeah, it was common during the week of that patch, but I think that's more because people didn't realize there were much better combinations out there. But that's on general killers.
Legion/Plague? It was... pretty insufferable. They can keep around 3-4 survivors injured at a time, which on Legion especially, was gross. In comparison, Gift of Pain only does 16% on a single person if they heal AFTER getting hooked on 1/4 specific hooks on a map.
And so, one of the biggest panic nerfs since Old Freddy happened. Thana was... it's bad now. Not niche like before, flat out bad.
Thana became 2% per stack until all 4 are injured, in which you gain 14% extra for a 20% slowdown (although the wiki says 22% still, much to my bewilderment).
I believe this was the wrong direction to go. It's effectively a step backwards. Now it's again a perk no one can use, only now, it's too situational for even Legion/Plague. You only need a single medkit, boon, or person who just knows how to evade the killer, and you're essentially down a perk. 6% slowdown is less than release Gift of Pain, which was a non-factor because it did so little. It's absurd. I don't believe a perk should be like this.
Thana was too much on Legion/Plague, but did too little for other killers for much of its time in the game. I propose flipping the idea around.
Currently, you need to injure everyone for a massive payoff that's practically infeasible. I believe it should have an initial larger number with diminishing returns, effectively increasing is lowest potential but reducing the maximum potential so it doesn't get out of hand on Legion/Plague.
For this, I chose 16% as the maximum. It's the same as Gift of Pain which isn't much of an issue.
Now, I had to find the right numbers. In the end, I chose this.
Whenever a survivor is injured, all survivors get a 4% debuff + 3% for every injured survivor to a maximum of 16%. The numbers would go 7%, 10%, 13%, and then 16%.
With most killers being able to keep 2-ish people injured at a time, 10% with 90-sec gens is reasonable, IMHO. 16% is still a nerf from its previous state, keeping it from getting too out of hand on Legion/Plague.
Sidenote: Can Thana PLEASE effect bless speeds?! It's like the biggest issue I have with it, even after it got nuked.
Comments
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I think 7% is too high for one injured survivor, however I completely agree with everything you’re saying and I like that idea of how to rework it. 16% max is completely reasonable.
(Also yes, please let it affect bless speeds, they even finally updated Resilience to affect it and didn’t mention it at all)
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Sorry, but until Plague and Legion are reworked, it’s not a perk that should too heavily reward killers for injuring survivors. These killers take the healthy state quickly, with barely any input or counter at all.
If they ever get reworked, Thana can be revisited.
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Legion can't injure a team effectively if they spread out. Ignoring that, the "never heal" rule is a fallacy. Just be very selective about the times you heal. Ignoring even THAT, so what? He's still Legion. He can have all the time in the world, but he's still an M1 killer.
Plague is... just cleanse. Literally, do that. If she's infected the entire team, cleanse. Yeah, she gets a Corrupt fountain. It's strong, but she's not Oni. Far as I see it, it's a hell of your own making if you choose to remain injured, especially if she has Thana, meaning she's COUNTING on it.
I don't think we're ever going to convince each other, but I had to make my disagreements known.
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Thanatophobia is a perk that requires injuring people. At most, you're keeping 1-2 survivors injured at a time. So, that was around 8% to 10% slowdown, which while okay, was fiercely outclassed by other perks. It was a niche perk that never saw uses outside of two killers (Plague/Legion) despite repeated buffs.
repeated buffs? more like repeated nerfs. it used to affect healing speed and repair speed, then got nerfed to only affect repair speed but the % increase was too little, then when it finally got improved to matter, it got nerfed.
I just wish the perk affected healing speeds so that you could at least keep more then 1-2 survivor injured with sloppy butcher. the main reason i stopped using it on other killers was because it was near impossible for most killers to keep survivors injured to have a high uptime on 3-4 stacks, so it never matter what % was because the max % was impossible achieve. why can't the perk just add 5%/10%/15%/20% -healing speed?
Sure it's nice to have -repair bonus on top of the perk, but dev did not like lose/lose aspect of extra time on healing and extra time on generators.
Legion and Plague are killers designed to create lose/lose situation for the survivor. That is literally what their power is all about. Thana for legion reinforces his significance of injuring survivors and plague does not need thanotophobia because her reinforcement comes from her ranged corrupt puke. It was just nice perk on plague for some extra-gen defense.
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Well, those killers don’t need reworks. Especially not plague.
If it’s too much of a concern for the devs to the point where thana has to be this terrible just because legion and plague exist and they aren’t willing to buff it at all as long as it's based off injuring survivors, whether it be OP's suggestion or anything else, then thana itself should just be entirely reworked and not left in the sad, useless state it’s in now.
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I really think it was better when it was 16% but slowed down healing as well as gens.
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Yeah, but that was kinda stupid tbf. The counter to thana is healing, yet it also directly penalized healing? It didn’t make any sense that way.
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I think Thana could apply to more things, such as Blessing, Exit Gates, unlocking chests, etc. But I don't think it'd be right for it to affect healing when the counter is healing.
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Imo, I think perks that make things take longer are just badly designed, same with perks that speed up the progress
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the counter should be not getting hit and split up like it is with legion.
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They probably will never be reworked since Plague, while strong, is fine and Legion still really doesn't do much in the grand scheme of things, so Thana probably should not ever be revisited.
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passive unconditional slowdown/acceleration is unhealthy for the game and I couldn't agree with you more.
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I believe before Thana was buffed to 20% it actually did affect healing speeds as well, and as it turned out that wasn't actually that healthy for the perk (or Forever Freddy). Definitely agree that removing the healing speed penalty from Thana was by far the healthiest change they have ever made for the perk.
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Plague keep everyone injured neverthless. Now thana is even MORE opppressive than before with plague. And useless with the killer that used it in a balanced way.
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The perk was decent ish on blight and nurse since they can get hits easily but it did shine on legion for sure (less so on plague since other perks were just better).
Now its useless on all killers except those two, so I think your change is fine or even making it so it does not stack with other percentage slowdown is also a fine idea and then you can buff it back to its old 16% or whichever.
I do think that people way overreacted since the perk was buffed by a whopping 2%.
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I am way more of a fan for interactive regression and slowdown based on kicking or getting downs. It rewards the killer for playing good by dropping chases and pressuring while not making the game too boring for survivor because gens aren't technically ever taking longer if the killer isn't playing the best
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honestly i think the version of thana from a while ago (4% per stack, affects healing on top of repair and totem time) would be the best fit for the game rn
nice and simple in wording and in effects, punishes staying injured, and adding slowdown to heals
if they dont like thana plague/legion they could make it so broken/deep wound survivors arent counted, but that doesnt fix the problems on legion and makes the perk utterly useless on plag, but in the case of legion there would be counterplay where you 99 your mend and do as much of the gen as possible in deep wound then finish the heal and take the slowdown for whats left
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the perk should just stay dead it's so boring and they tried many times to make it useful and failed and unless they can think of another objective for it changing some numbers on it will never work.
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I'm somewhat confused.
To me, regressing a gen and directing slowing it are effectively the same thing. The survs need to hold M1 longer.
I'd argue Thana is very interactive because it encourages the killer to go out and spread out injuries, meaning they go out and chase multiple survivors, with the chase being the fun part of the game.
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I personally don't see them being the same thing. A plague or legion injuring everyone is the point of their power. A survivor that barely sees the killer now has to do gens and hold m1 for longer; while a killer that is actively walking around, taking into account gen progress, and kicking them is far more interactive because it is a back and forth interaction. Survivor runs away, survivor stops the regression, killer kicks and guards, etc. It is an actual fight.
Sure, the survivor might spend the overall time holding m1, but it might not feel that way. A gen just taking longer while nothing else is going on is boring, no one likes just holding m1 for 120 seconds. However if you are doing a gen at normal speed and you actually get to interact with the killer, it is atleast a more interesting generator.
Thana isn't very interactive because the only killers that get value off of it are killers that entire purpose are keeping you injured very easily, not necessarily letting survivors avoid it. Current thana is a different issue and it is just awful.
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I see 120 seconds being brought up all the time.
Thana was never that high. At its peak, Thana was 115. The only perk that has it in the 120s is Pentimento. And if the killer brings both... i mean, the survivors should know where Penti is.
16% with 90 would be an additional 17 seconds (so 107), just to be clear.
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I am quite aware and it was an example number. That wasn't the point of my comment. My point was that no matter how long a gen takes, a gen taking longer because the killer is actively interacting with you and the generator is more fun than you just having to do the generator longer without anything interesting happening for you.
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I'm aware that wasn't your main point. I just saw it too often that it's becoming a pet peeve of mine.
As for your main point, I can see where you're coming from, but I think we'll have to agree to disagree in that regard.
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