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If only 2 survivors remain, the killer should be able to open an Exit Gate
This would give the killer an option to put a time limit on games where the last 2 survivors are just hiding and not progressing generators.
In scenarios where the last 2 survivors are just hiding and the killer doesn't have Whispers or another way to find them the game can drag on for far too long.
But if the killer is thirsty for the 3-4K and don't mind it taking a long time they don't have to open the gate.
A simple solution.
Edit: The killer should also be able to open an exit gate after 15 minutes have elapsed and the gens still aren't complete.
Comments
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I would give the killer option to open exit gate at any moment.
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This would be too abusable by those that want to manipulate their rank downward.
Quitters who give up early would quit sooner and just open the gate.
The last 2 survivors hiding and waiting for the other die is a common scenario that the killer should have a way out of.
Having 3 or 4 survivors trying to hold the killer hostage in the same way is much more rare. Unless these scenarios become more common, there doesn't need to be a mechanic to prevent them, especially when the mechanic could ruin otherwise normal games by letting the Killer open the gate when it should remain firmly closed.
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That abuse is very easy to counter: MMR change ONLY if conditions are same as today's ability to open gates. Otherwise MMR is held on current level. Also survivors do not depip in that situation.
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It's also just too abusable by map dodgers. "Oh RPD, let me just open the gate..."
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Everytime I try something for QoL, salty ragequitters and entitled kids got in the way. You're absolutely right, that won't work.... Goddamit
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I'd be for this change. I usually don't play for kills, so if two die it's often by accident. I'd love to be able to tell the other two to just get the hell out and stop wasting everyone's time. No, no, instead I have to search the whole damn map over and over to find their asses hiding in some remote area just so I can move on. At that point I'm usually annoyed enough I want both dead, but if I could open the door it wouldn't get to that.
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The killer can still AFK or facecamp to map dodge, so this adds no new abuse case scenarios. However adding onto my thought below, it could Matchmaking Ban early opens for the duration of the early open. In that case 10 minutes is the early open timer, and if you open at the start before a minute runs out you get a 10 minute ban. This could also be adjusted to half or other methods.
Also my comment replying to yours from the thread where you came up with the idea, but in this more appropriate setting.
I would take this a step further and let the killer open the gates at any point in the match. If the killer opens it early all currently living survivors get 10k BP per category, minus 1k (per category) per minute passed (10 minutes pass and 0 BP is bonus awarded). That way if a killer wants to hard meme and go for a first minute 4k from Blood Warden, the survivors still get BP. It also can serve as a form of surrender by the killer, and can potentially counter cheaters. It wouldn't work when they do the false hook in front of the gate, but that could be changed by allowing the surrender to be a menu option and opening both gates when using the menu. If survivor pips are an issue it can allow safety pips if opened early. (This opened early being any time before gates currently can be opened.)
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Generally with my suggestions to BHVR I try to make them as easy to implement as possible as we know how fond of easy solutions they are.
So with my suggestion they only have one step; make it possible to open the gate once only 2 survivors remain. Simple and doesn't require any other steps. If they wanted to get fancy they could negate or lessen any MMR gain for the 2 survivors should they escape and the killer already has a guaranteed 2K so their MMR isn't going down anyway.
Perhaps they could make it so the killer could open the gate no matter what after a certain period of time like 10 or 15 minutes but they still need to solve the cheaters using the hanging position to hold the game hostage after the Endgame Collapse has elapsed anyway.
Your idea is easily abused by MMR manipulators, people who are already prone to quitting early, map dodgers and killers who want to give free bloodpoints to survivors. The killer being able to pop the gate in the first minute and give all survivors max score is just silly. It would also be difficult to implement requiring too much extra coding while just not being good for the game.
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Frankly I think it's silly that the Killer isn't allowed to open the gate from the get-go. Having an intuitive built-in option to just concede the match and move on isn't a bad thing. Survivors get a guaranteed escape and some BP, killer gets to end the match instead of AFKing in a corner if they can't or don't want to play the rest of the match out for some reason.
Anything bad that could happen from the killer opening the gates early themselves is something that can already happen from the killer AFKing in a corner. I see absolutely no reason why it shouldn't be in the game.
Just add in a system that MMR/pips isn't affected for survivors or killer until either X minutes in the game are over or X generators are done already. Or even X survivors left, like the 2 OP suggested, and let the Killer open the gates at any time. That way there's no intentional MMR drop shenanigans going on or whatever idk.
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Ease is understandable. After 10/15 minutes would be a fine alternative condition to the 2 survivor concept.
MMR manipulators can still do so, so no new abuse cases can be formed. Specifically as survivor I am never forced to exit through the gate (unless a killer carries the survivor there and drop spams at the right angle, but the survivor can stay away from gates and struggle), and as killer I am never forced to 3rd hook a survivor. Also the killer could just AFK as already mentioned.
Prone to quitting early players and map dodgers would get the ban mentioned above, so already accounted for. Again, they can also just AFK currently so no new abuse cases would occur.
Killers who want to give free BP. I am not seeing a problem here? I can already refuse to hook survivors as killer, and survivors would get the 7k escape bonus should they choose to. Also accounted for with the 10 minute ban if done at minute 0. As Wesker I often have to get people to struggle off my shoulder or drop spam them and M1 them again to down them in order to cap on Brutality BP. I think that is because the M2 is bugged and doesn't give any of those points. Also co-operative farming (that is killer and survivors working together), which is technically bannable, is only bannable under the assertion that you are "Working with the opposite team to gain an advantage". In this "surrender" case the killer gains no advantage, and the survivors did nothing to work with them. So again, no new abuse cases.
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By the Entity, how complicated is your suggestion? You got stepped bloodpoint compensations based on the minute the killers DCs, you have bans involved, etc. Not only is your idea so complicated I am having difficulty wrapping my head around it, I don't even want to wrap my head around it, it's that convoluted. You also propose bans that are longer than a normal DC penalty for using an in-game mechanic that's just ...not even close to ideal.
For killers who want to give free BP in scenarios where the killer chooses not to kill survivors, they are at least still playing the game. In your case when the killer pops the gate and gives the entire survivor squad 40k BP each, it's literally free for them. They didn't have to play or do anything to earn it and they earn more than they would earn playing a normal game? You still don't see a problem with that? BHVR certainly will. Even if the killer does AFK, the survivors have to do stuff to earn the points; generators, totems, blind the killer, hang out in the terror radius and escape. In those cases (unless the killer is a swing bot) the survivors get under 20k on average and 27k at the absolute maximum. I don't even remember the last time I went up against a 100% AFK killer.
Remember BHVR is far more likely to do nothing than anything ever suggested in the entire Feedback forum and they have been historically stingy with bloodpoints.
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My suggestion is far from complicated at all, and I am sorry if I lacked in clarity. Alternatively the perceived simplicity to me comes from a soft background of programming, but what to me is simple mathematical reasoning in general as well. For that I don't know what point I need to address, so I shall try to simplify. The problem with clearing something up however, is that it takes more words to ensure someone understands something by explaining each intricacy of it. I will say I only introduced the ban system to give a penalty for an abuse case you pointed out, but was not unique to this. Even with the proposed matchmaking ban, AFK is still an illegal response to bad map, but in order for the killer to be penalized they must be reported by the survivors. This would automate the soft ban against an early open killer, just as using the "Leave Match" feature has soft bans be automated.
There are 2 defined situations for newly proposed early opens. The first is before 10 minutes. The second is any point before the game currently allows the killer to, or more accurately, before all the gens are completed.
In the first case, the killer is penalized and survivors rewarded based on the timer. This is a sliding scale such that instant quitters are penalized, but someone finding a cheater would have enough time to record evidence and quit when they are ready. In the early open case the killer is penalized with a matchmaking ban for each minute the gates were opened early, and survivors are rewarded similarly. If I open the gates 0s-59s into the match, it counts as a 10 minute penalty/reward and 1m-1m59s counts as 9 minutes. Survivors get the 1k BP (in each category) multiplied by 10, for the early minutes, resulting in 10k BP in each category, capping them at 40k. At the same time the killer is matchmaking banned for 1 minute per early minute. In this case 1 times 10 is 10, so 10 minutes of matchmaking ban. If in that match I as the killer did that at the 5 minute mark the multiplication works out similarly. (10 minute timer - 5 early minutes = 5 reward/penalty multiplier. 5*1kBP equals 5k BP for each survivor category, and 5*1 minute equals 5 minute matchmaking ban.) Note that the numbers were mentioned to be WIP, and could be modified however BHVR sees fit. I was using a simple baseline for the thought experiment.
This is among the simpler of programming statements that can be made. Early Timer = ET, with Early Timer being defined by 10 minutes minus Match Timer (or MT) in minutes. Match Timer is just the the time elapsed, aka however long the match lasts. So the programming statement would be something like (10 - MT = ET). If this formula is negative, it doesn't use this. (In the case of 2 survivors hiding and working on/tapping gens for 20 minutes, 10 - MT of 20 = ET of -10, negative so it doesn't use the system.)
Now in the second case, that is used for survivor safety pips as an alternative. If either early open method is used (ET being not negative or gates are opened before gens are completed), survivors get minimum of a safety pip for emblems. If the survivors still managed to get better then good for them, but it ensures the minimum they get is a safety pip.
As far as the AFK killer concept, the killer doesn't need to actually AFK. The killer can play "basement chest defense" or whatever meme they desire, but the result is typically not enough BP for survivors. I don't see a problem for a 10 minute plus matchmaking time cooldown (due to the built in matchmaking ban) yielding a max of 160k BP, as it is meant to be a disincentive on the killer end, and an apology on the survivor end. Also it doesn't need to be applied to the actual categories, it could be an untyped bonus like White Glyphs, and those I don't believe are affected by BP offerings. I originally wanted to apply it to the categories so it wouldn't fully stack with earned BP. Alternatively if the first early condition is met it could refund items, add-ons, and offerings. I think that would be more difficult than simple BP however.
I thought of expanding your system, and addressed the adjusted system with your criticisms. Each criticism was addressed, so there should be no more complaints correct?
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Just looking at that wall of text I can sum it up in 3 words.
Hard to implement.
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IF (MT<10 AND (EXITGATES.OPENBYKILLER IS TRUE)) THEN (KILLER MMBAN = ET AND SURVIVORBONUS = 1000*ET)
Sorry you don't understand programming but that in general is very easy. I used more words to break things up into simpler bite size chunks, but I can't force feed someone. If you choose to remain ignorant that is your own fault, as I made an honest effort every step of the way to communicate with you. The failure is on your end.
Edit: Spelling
2nd Edit: Also to account for the safety pip 2nd clause
IF (MT=>10 AND (EXITGATES.OPENBYKILLER IS TRUE)) THEN (SURVIVORSAFETYPIPMINIMUM = TRUE)
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(For those who actually program the above post is meant to be a hybridization of English and code for the sake of understanding. I know plenty of reasons that post in particular is wonky, but I wanted to show how 7 paragraphs of explanation can actually only be roughly 1 or 2 lines of code.)
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It's still not that simple.
Your idea require further refinement because BHVR is not going to be handing out 40k free bloodpoints for survivors literally doing nothing but having the exit gate opened for them. They are not going to let the game be so easily exploited by map dodgers, point givers or early quitters. They are not going to hand out 10 minute bans for an in game mechanic when they only hand out 5 minute bans (usually) for DCs.
I am done discussing your idea. It is too easily abused and scenarios where 3 or more survivors are still alive and the game is not 15 minutes old yet are so exceedingly rare that a blanket mechanic like your idea is needed.
I designed my idea around dealing with the 2 hiding survivor scenario as this scenario happens often enough that it would be nice to have a solution. And it does that without making an overly abusable mechanic.
I'm going to add the the 15 minute option to the OP if I still can. I think 15 minutes is a good number for this because the Gatekeeper Emblems times out at 9 minutes and a 6 minute buffer is all right, imo.
Seriously, what good reason should the killer be able to open the exit gates before 2 survivors are dead or the game is 15 minutes old? The only reason I can think of is cheaters but they can hold the killer hostage for 2 hours anyway so what good would it do?
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40k free BP - You are stuck on the wrong part, it can be 1k points per minute or 100 points per minute or 10 points per minute. Numbers for rewards are easy to change.
Too easily abused - I provided a counter for every abuse and made them worse than the current basement defender or legally not banable AFK but in spirit AFK equivalent. So that is a lie.
2 hiding scenario - and I provided a reasonable expansion upon the idea, which you said yourself was probably not going to be used by BHVR so why would more carefully thought out ideas not be helpful?
15 minutes - that's fair if you want to stick to your premise and not improve upon it any further than that.
Cheaters - Because the killer can let out the non-cheating survivors and help the community as much as possible. That would necessitate a menu option for both gates since cheaters can block gates with the fake hook, then move over to the other gate before the killer can reach it. I have a YT vid of a cheater doing that to me that I used for their report, but luckily the survivors were able to open the other gate since he popped all the gens in a second to troll me.
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I don't know how often you encounter cheaters but I haven't encountered a blatant cheater in months and I play a lot.
Non-cheating survivors can let themselves out. By death or doing the objective. Cheaters can't hold all the players in the game hostage for extended periods, just the killer. Not without extensive effort or multiple cheaters. Cheaters are their own problem, an easily abused mechanic by normal players should not be added to the game to combat cheaters.
I still see no good reason for your mechanic to exist. If there was good reason, I'd be more willing to entertain it.
I still think it'd be hard for BHVR to implement as they can't (or just won't) implement a perk search bar. But I am not a programmer or a coder, what do I know.
Thank you for helping me keep this thread near the top of the feedback forum for as long as we have.
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The search aspect could be a result of backend issues, which are in general more difficult to deal with especially when you need to keep the game functional for as many platforms as they currently do. Plus for console you would have to integrate the console keyboard feature which usually is annoying to deal with from my limited experience (not always difficult, just annoying). The perk numbered tabs were in all likelihood something that existed in the background, but simply wasn't shown before. (If they used arrays or something similar in scope.)
The reasoning for anytime opening gates was if you as killer didn't want to play when clearly outmatched, be that in stealth or chase (independent of the number of survivors, or because as a killer you didn't bring enough intel or chase perks). It hopefully would mirror the survivor surrender/hook suicide feature currently usable, but for killers as well. However this killer surrender feature would have built in penalties for the abuse cases unlike the current survivor equivalent. (I think that should also have penalties for abuse, but that might currently be too difficult to compare abuse versus use eg. Slippery Meat or being bad at the skillchecks compared to Nurse/Blight/Temper Tantrum suicides.)
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Criticizing someones idea not based on how well it would work should it exist but on how likely it is for it to happen or how much you dont want to read it is toxic and short-sighted and demeaning. dont.
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