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Killer should be harder. Period.

2

Comments

  • Tsulan
    Tsulan Member Posts: 15,095

    Oh i agree that the 6.1.0 patch was suboptimal. On one hand, gen times were increased. While on the other, all meta slowdown perks were nerfed hard. This in contribution with the buff to gen repair perks resulted in gens getting done even faster by high skill survivors, while also hurting low skill survivors, that can´t complete their objective.

    But that doesn´t mean that killer should be more stressful. First of all, survivor has been always a walk in the park. Even solo. Simply, because doing gens or totems isn´t stressful at all. Sure, there are tight chases that can be stressful, but those usually get interrupted by calm moments. Because, as i said. The killer carries the whole match on his shoulders, while survivors distribute the workload.

    Also, nerfing Nurse is a double edged sword. Since she has the lowest kill rate of all killers. Sure, high skilled nurses are very strong, but so are high skilled SWF squads. Which have a 15% higher escape rate. If you nerf one, you would also have to nerf the other. But how do you nerf SWF without nerfing solos or punishing people for playing with their friends?

  • kizuati
    kizuati Member Posts: 1,386

    You dont nerf SWF. You buff Killers once solo queue is brought up to the baseline. Simple as that.

  • Tsulan
    Tsulan Member Posts: 15,095

    Some very simple challenges, like repairing gens in coop, or heal so many health states. Took me way longer than necessary. Simply, because some of my teammates were doing some other challenges and were not interested at all in doing the objective. I´ve seen someone with a streamer mode run away from me (while i was injured), running repeatedly into a locker and then complain in the endgame chat. Because he needed to do some other challenge.

    Honestly, the devs could almost completely avoid the issue with the challenges. By allowing people to equip several challenges at the same time + giving people the oportunity to see what challenges everyone has equipped in the lobby.

  • VikingDragonXii
    VikingDragonXii Member Posts: 2,885

    It's not that simple M1 Killers like Trapper can't be brought up to those levels because it's not possible. His Kit and some others are not made to become tuned up like that without some major reworks to the Kit itself.

  • Tsulan
    Tsulan Member Posts: 15,095

    Every buff to solos, is also a buff to SWF.

    While the kill rates might look decent, you have to consider that low rank survivors have a abysmal low escape rate. Partly, because new survivors don´t know what to do. The tutorial is a good start, but we need the bot mode to be able to train as/against every single killer with a choice of addons and ingame hints on what is happening now.

  • kizuati
    kizuati Member Posts: 1,386

    Please explain to me how giving location information to solo queue players a buff to SWF,who already have that on comms. How?

  • Aneurysm
    Aneurysm Member Posts: 5,270

    I mean I was playing killer for the first time in a while last night, EU servers, 100% killer bonuses kicked in soon after I started playing and stayed that way for the rest of the night (although my queues were still kinda slow?) and I was doing my usual no slowdown thing, and I took a battering. For the most part, very strong teams with a shitton of hours combined.

    This isn't a "swf bad" rant, I also got a couple of extremely solo queue games where someone dc'd at 5 gens or threw in some other pointless way, my preference would be the other side actually putting in some kind of effort. Plus the games were fun, they were nice enough opponents, chatted with them in postgame and visited their streams etc


    But I'm mainly responding to the "SWF don't stomp anymore" but of course they do. Taking a bunch of good survivors (better than me, honestly) who can wreck you before 6.1.0., they don't instantly turn into a pile of helpless baby mice crawling over each other until put out of their misery because pallets are kicked 10% faster, gens take 10 seconds longer and the rest.

    There are other factors (I'm very rusty, I had been hanging out with a friend and had a few drinks, late night EU on the weekends is wild) but the point still stands, I think.

  • VikingDragonXii
    VikingDragonXii Member Posts: 2,885

    Probably for the same reasons that Mandy gave when when responding to a Nerf Nurse thread. It would take ALOT of time to figure out New Powers for said Killers and the time to test them out and then fix any bugs issues and rework the numbers to buff or nerf them would take a considerable amount of time that would be better vested elsewhere. That's why they twerk the numbers

  • Tsulan
    Tsulan Member Posts: 15,095

    Every single attempt to bring solos on SWF information levels, has ultemately also buffed SWF.

    The Undying notification uppon approaching a dull totem. Shows up for the solo, but the SWF team also gets informed about Undying in play. Ruin notification = everyone in the team gets told there is Ruin.

    A basekit Kindred would optimize SWF even further. While only having minor impact on solos (which often like to ignore Kindred).

  • Killing_Time
    Killing_Time Member Posts: 894

    The latest update brought killers back to the game lol.

  • kizuati
    kizuati Member Posts: 1,386

    So instead of taking time and implementing really good changes we should..take less time and implement bad changes?

  • kizuati
    kizuati Member Posts: 1,386

    The 1 part of a 1v4 will always be stressful. You gotta juggle more things. There's nothing that can really be done for it without making it wildly favored to the 1 side.

  • kizuati
    kizuati Member Posts: 1,386
  • Omans
    Omans Member Posts: 1,081

    It was pretty clear to follow. Going for 12 hooks as killer is like cleansing all totems as survivor, opening all chests, doing all the other little things survivors can do and still expecting to 'win.' I'd much rather play that way, winning chases through skill and mind games and 'lose' a few more games than I would if I got my first kill on my third hook every game, which so many (bad) killers rely on.

    You must have misunderstood about Wraith. Nurse and Blight are much better than every other killer, but saying Wraith is a killer that will struggle, or even get steam rolled, which you seem to be implying, is so far from reality.

    In fact, the only way a killer can get steam rolled at any mmr if the killer is playing to 'win,' is if the survivors are a 4-stack of tournament level players. If you get rolled by anything else it means you didn't play well enough or dirty enough, or just weren't good enough (or the map/pallet/window spawns went against you...but that can happen to both sides).

    I go for 12 hooks because playing the way most killers play (hard tunneling the first person hooked while proxy camping that first hook) is so, so easy, skilless, and if the devs realized it the game would be so much healthier.

    The last paragraph is just wrong, so I'll just ignore it.

  • Nameless
    Nameless Member Posts: 869

    Whenever I play in SWF it feels somewhat the same. Whenever I'm in soloqueue, I feel terrible. Soloqueue really needs some love. BHVR needs to find ways for solo survivors to actually coördinate more like a team. Also, screw the solo survivors that just kill themselves on hook. As if soloqueue wasn't miserable enough, these survivors just make it even worse.

  • GrimoireWeiss
    GrimoireWeiss Member Posts: 1,452

    Your post has some very good points and I agree with all of your suggestions, but you really should change the title and the very few first paragraphs. They made you sound salty.

  • AcelynnBen
    AcelynnBen Member Posts: 1,012
    edited September 2022

    you got some good ideas here

    but tbh none of this will work since MMR plays a giant role

    and killer is already stressful as it is, just because you aren't getting stressed doesn't mean nobody is, high mmr is a stressing nightmare for killers since u have to deal with so much

  • Whoudini
    Whoudini Member Posts: 309
    edited September 2022

    Those suggestions you made to fix the power vacuums such as making maps smaller etc I actually agree with basically all of them. The cooldown and speed burst reduction should be kept though since holding W is boring gameplay and cutting that as much as possible should always be encouraged but other then that good suggestions.

    Post edited by EQWashu on
  • Splinterverse
    Splinterverse Member Posts: 445

    I agree with some but not all of your ideas OP. Maps do need work but they don't need to be made smaller. We have so many killers that can cross maps almost instantly now and those with a large TR become oppressive if every map is small.

    Shelter Woods needs to be killswitched until it can be reworked. It has too many dead zones and is an extremely killer-sided map.

    Rotten Fields and the Azarov map with the shack in the center should also be looked at. Personally, I think if a map doesn't have two basement spawn possibilities, it should be changed.

    RPD split should be redone simply. Take the original map and focus on the main hall in its center. Completely close off all exits on the left side of that room for one map and do the opposite on the other. Otherwise it is really difficult to learn the map and not hit a dead end -- they both look far too similar and really have no "east" or "west" feel to them. The new outside pieces can stay, just on the appropriate side.

    Lastly, in addition to the baseline kindred, survivors need a "move a gen" perk or offering. It is far too easy for a solo queue to accidentally 3-gen OR a killer to force a 3-gen. The way I imagine it working is as follows . . .

    SHELL GAME

    When two generators have been completed, this perk activates. Use a secondary action on an unfinished generator to move it to the location of a completed generator. Once this action has been used by any survivor who has this perk, this perk deactivates for all survivors.

    (Alternatively, it could be an offering, but it would need to be like multiple map offerings where only one makes it through.)

  • RatbasterdJr
    RatbasterdJr Member Posts: 702

    I invite you to come play against my squad. Go for a 12 hook game and see what the outcome is (or don’t, and we’ll still see).

  • Shaped
    Shaped Member Posts: 5,907

    I want to q with you for a week or something and see how surv is walk in a park. No comms. Would that be possible?

    I don't think any role is "walk in a park" all the time.


    Killer is more stressful to me too but surv is not exactly walk in the park. It just stress me less when I am getting obliterated.

  • Tsulan
    Tsulan Member Posts: 15,095
    edited September 2022

    We could get in contact over discord, if you want.

    EDIT: i already did this with @Marigoria in the past and it was a nice experience.

  • Maverick_74F
    Maverick_74F Member Posts: 159
    edited September 2022

    Tell that to VHS.....

    Post edited by EQWashu on
  • VikingDragonXii
    VikingDragonXii Member Posts: 2,885
    edited September 2022

    No they say Power Role because this is a Asymmetrical Game. In all Asymmetrical I have played the 1 is always the power role while the many are weaker as individuals but equal the power role together.

    Best view of this is the game Evolve, the Monster player is a all powerful monster who has the advantage of starting before the hunters spawn to gain power fast. I'm that game it can get very one sided for the Monster if the Hunters don't work together as a team but if they have good teamwork then it's not so one sided and the Hunters could begin to tip the scales.

    I have seen arguments where people say make Survivors as strong as the Killers or make the Killer the same power level as Survivors. In both those scenarios it can't happen because the Killer would be up against 4 players of equal power as them.

    Post edited by EQWashu on
  • DeathByBJ224
    DeathByBJ224 Member Posts: 61

    funny how they block out cruse words for a 18+ game lol BEHVIOR NEED TO GROW UP.

  • kizuati
    kizuati Member Posts: 1,386

    "best view of this is the most unbalanced asym in the history of asyms"

    yeah alright,was nice talking to you buddy.

  • Akumakaji
    Akumakaji Member Posts: 5,488

    Another fun fact: I am seeing DH in every game now, sometimes even 3-4 like back in the days (though this kinda games are still the outliers), and most of the survivors wisend up to how to use it properly and use it to very, very strong effect. I have even seen some DHs that were night uncounterable, like when a survivor is reaching a vault just BARELY too slow, like 0,1s or something, just by a nails widths, they activated DH, Now, when I just couldn't get through the last two Iri ranks last season, for the first time ever I smurfed one of my killers to breeze through the Iri ranks and be done with it. After a couple of lost games DH nearly disappeared entirely, it just vanished from the face of the earth and didn't reappear until I was killing again, raising to the higher reaches of MMR.

    I got the very strong feeling that the usage rate of DH in the survivors you are facing is one of the strongest indicators of you are in the higher-ish MMR regions, maybe even at the soft cap, or if you are below. Mid-ranking survivors and lower don't bother with DH, as they are lacking the experience and skills to utilize it. All those frustrated threads about "DH is absolute garbage now. Thanks BHVR!!11" are NOT from skilled and high MMR survivor players, thats for sure.

    TL,DR: probably the best indicator of you are in the higher-ish regions of MMR (we will never know for sure) is if you are versing survivors with DH on the regularly, and if they use DH to good effect.

  • VikingDragonXii
    VikingDragonXii Member Posts: 2,885

    What are you talking about that's a pretty fair game as long as your teammates are total idiots...I had a game where my teammate caged the monster but locked all of them out of the cage and I was stuck inside the cage....but I also played many hunter games where we won matches.

  • YOURFRIEND
    YOURFRIEND Member Posts: 3,389

    I see you want to go back to the game desperately needing killer players.

  • kizuati
    kizuati Member Posts: 1,386
    edited September 2022

    ah yes the thread which suggests tons of killer buffs is 100% survivor sided.

    Post edited by EQWashu on
  • SunsetSherbet
    SunsetSherbet Member Posts: 1,607

    I'd rather have fun as survivor. Escaping 90% of the time isn't fun. Nor is seeing people Tbag everything but Nurse, because it's the only threatening killer. I quit when survivor was easy. I came back because it has some challenge. Change it back and I just quit again. I can play things besides Asym. And no, I don't even play killer. I have a played a single Wesker game and that's it since March.

  • RatbasterdJr
    RatbasterdJr Member Posts: 702

    A lot of people here haven’t played killer much and it shows. 😂

  • SuzuKR
    SuzuKR Member Posts: 3,910

    People thinking the stats prove anything are the proof for why people should be required to take a statistics class.

  • crogers271
    crogers271 Member Posts: 1,926

    I'm surprised people find Killer stressful. My experience has always been the opposite. As survivor a single mistake can end the game for you. Also, things can happen that you have no control over, bad play/luck by a teammate can end your chances. As killer if I miss a chase, no big deal. Get back on the gens, find another survivor, etc. Survivors running through the gens? Focus on the narrowing map. Fail even that, focus on trying to catch one during EGC.

    As survivor the fact that I can be eliminated adds a ton of stress. That doesn't exist for killer. Not saying it is necessarily easy, just surprised people find it more stressful.

  • Marius1234456918
    Marius1234456918 Member Posts: 106

    Bro i play main survivors since 2016. I play only swf and since the patch me and the boys got 100win streaks and stuff. Idk what you are talking about but survivors was and is always op if you play with good mates who know the game. For example the 5sec buff to basekit bt was soooo unnecessary and op now you can escape 100% if you get unhooked in endgame. Killers just cant Camp at least 1 kill in the end game which was already hard to do before this buff.

  • Veinslay
    Veinslay Member Posts: 1,959

    "Buff solo up to SWF then buff killers!!!" okay what buffs would those be? What would be acceptable for survivor mains? No one ever fills in this part. OP in here crying about 10% faster weapon cool down and shortened speed boost

  • Nihlus
    Nihlus Member Posts: 301

    Nothing about the game should be stressful? Really? The only way that happens if there is no win or loss condition. Killed survivors respawn after 30 seconds with fresh bodies and the game goes until the doors open and everyone leaves.

    You now must do all 7 gens to open the gates. Killers will have 100 kills per game and the survivors respawning never feel like they lost. Games now last an hour and everyone caps blood points. Woo no stress!

  • Nihlus
    Nihlus Member Posts: 301

    The game should not be balanced around you and your tiny miniscule portion of the player base that take the game so seriously that you play like it's a literal military operation.

  • Nihlus
    Nihlus Member Posts: 301

    It seems you read part of the thread, but missed the parts you complain about. He made these suggestions.

  • Zolfo16
    Zolfo16 Member Posts: 479

    "Killer should be harder than survivor and more stressful."

    Why? What is harder? For a 2oo kg monster to kill 4 teenagers or for a teennager to survive and escape from a building with a 200kg killer monster in ita? What is more stressful? To kill or to be killed?

    Sorry but i stopped reading at this point.

  • PaintedDeath
    PaintedDeath Member Posts: 492

    The people thinking the statistics don't prove anything is proof some people should stay out of statistics classes.

  • Veinslay
    Veinslay Member Posts: 1,959

    I did read. He went all ScottJund that killers only lose to 4 stacks cause they played bad

This discussion has been closed.