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Endurance Perks are Bad for Anti-Tunnelling
I am not talking about base-kit BT, it is good enough. It was very good buff for survivors.
But problem is coming with OTR. It is not stackable with BT, which is fair. But this means killers can abuse that.
If killer wants to tunnel you, they are hitting you after you unhooked. This means you can not use OTR or DH anymore. Smart killers are taking these perks from you. You have no protection after that.
So these perks are not very effective sadly. They are not helping you like old DS. Old DS really punished tunnelling, OTR can be counterable very easily with early hit or STBFL.
I am really hoping we can get old DS back. It still can stay deactivated for end game but stun time (3 seconds) is doing nothing. DS was the best anti-tunnel and now sadly tunnelling is so strong. We need 5 seconds DS again.
Comments
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Yeah OTR is a little overrated. I feel it’s only useful if you lead the killer on a long chase after getting hooked, but most of the time the basekit BT endurance will be the one saving you anyway.
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I agree with what you say. OTR is very overrated and has not given me any value any time, other than being silent. I’ve taken it out of my main build long time ago.
Really hoping for 5 second DS again.
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Me too. Whenever killers are seeing you are silent, they are hitting you early. It has very easy counter which makes it pretty bad.
DS had surprise factor, killer did not know you have it or not. So sometimes they were respecting it but current DS is pretty garbage. There is nothing to stop killers to not tunnel.
I agree with that. OTR is B-tier perk, maybe low A. That's all.
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Why do we still have to mend anyway? It seems so counterproductive when you're being tunneled! The darkening of the screen is the most annoying part, because then it becomes really difficult to see while you're trying not to get tunneled.
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I am a huge fan of disabling DS endgame, but the stun duration nerf was just egregious. I would actually be in favor of not just 5, but 6 or 7 seconds of stun duration.
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They should make basekit BT or OTR have the same effect as MoM, where it gives you "endurance" but it doesn't put you in deep wounds. Although I'm scared some dude will take like 2 protection hits for the unhooker.
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OTR was really only meta when basekit BT was only 5 seconds. Hopefully they take another look at it because they could do much more with it now.
DS was a mindless nerf after it had long been in a good spot finally, so they definitely need to revert to 5 seconds.
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Or base-kit BT should make you lose collision. So with this way, they can't take protection hit and plus you are not losing your OTR effect.
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The easy solution (and correct in my eyes) is to make anti-tunnel Endurance not cause deep wound unless it was a protection hit. Currently though protection hits only count if you take a hit near an injured survivor, so it would have to expand protection hits to include healthy survivors. It might also need an additional check for when Survivors split up but are still within ~8m of each other like S1--K-S2 and the killer swings at the unhooked S2. The extra clause might be something like S2 is closer to S1 than K, or have a 2s grace period after unhook.
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sounds like a good idea then
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Sure, fine by me. I dont sant to make the perk too strong though, and easy to exploit by strong swf.
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I mean, you just ignored a hit for free, something has to happen
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OTR is worse for both killers and survivors, in comparison to DS. For survivors for the aforementioned reasons.
For killers, an OTR bodyblock leaves the survivor able to do anything, whereas a DS bodyblock will incapacitate the blocker, benefitting the killer if they don't pick up the slug.
DS should go back to 5 seconds or higher.
OTR should suppress noises, scratches, aura reading and bloodtrails and be fully disabled upon a conspic action, to be a higher risk, higher reward anti-tunnel with a different purpose to DS.
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Considering that the one and only time I have been hit by DS in the last few weeks I ended up downing the person again within 10 seconds, I agree, the duration should be buffed, not just reverted
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DS is impossible to exploit, since you cannot force the killer to pick someone up.
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I feel like the DS nerf was too much... Plus all of the Killer Buffs
"trying to break the meta" is laughable right now... all of them feel like a knee-jerk reaction to people complaining about those perks
And instead of figuring out why they are used (run) they just got the numbers and crapped out changes to them
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Great. Then there is no problem setting the stun duration to 7 seconds.
It’s should still be disabled in endgame though.
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Yep. It's part of why I think DS is way better design than OTR.
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At the very least, they could make DS like OTR and have it applied to both hook states, if they don't want to revert the duration nerf. It sucks that bhvr doesn't let us have more than one good anti tunnel perk.
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Technically if the killer isn't expecting it you can force a pickup with a CJ tech at a pallet/locker/window, but realistically no killer with more than 2 brain cells will fall for it more than once per game
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This. People always complained about survivors using DS aggressively, but in practice, like... I'd get surprised by DS once for every ten survivors who ran out in my face, I smacked them, and then I left them on the ground because it was obvious to me they were baiting DS. True aggressive DS ceased to be a problem when they introduced conspicuous actions.
DS is currently too weak. I wouldn't just bump it up to 5s again - I'd either get rid of the skill check or I'd make it operate on both hooks. I do very much like OTR, but it only works if the killer isn't camping the hook and can't smack you as soon as you get off. And OTR is incompatible with Dead Hard, so a lot of players would prefer to use DS on principle.
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DS being buffed is probably my number one balance change I am hoping for in the upcoming mid chapter update. I would just not understand why they wouldn't do that, cause I am expecting some more perk changes in the next midchapter update. And DS being buffed back to 5 seconds is like one of the most requested changes, as far as I can see.
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they're not bad. It got nerfed in the PTB to prevent survivors from being able to stack second chance perks such as Base-kit BT, Off the record and Dead hard. these perks now have anti-synergy but taking an extra hit is really good.
DS is only perk you can stack with second chance perks. It was just reduced in power-level.
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They should bring back the 5 second DS and then remove the endurance from OTR (and give it a different buff instead). DS was far more effective at punishing tunneling but combining pre-nerf DS and current OTR would be too strong for aggressively bodyblocking the killer from going after someone else.
If they don’t want it to be 5 seconds they could also give the survivor a temporary speedboost instead.
At least with DS/UB, that survivor is stuck on the ground for a bit if you do slug them.
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The devs should just leave DS as-is if the “buff” would just nerf OTR by removing the endurance effect..
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