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This is so dumb.
I'm in a 3 or 4-man swf. We all run Unbreakable and Dead hard. When we go down we make sure it's under a pallet with someone else standing by. Maybe with a beamer or flashbang.
The killer now has 22 seconds before we recover to......
.......Do what exactly? Injure the other survivor and chase them away? What if there's more than 1?
Oops. You thought about it too long. Now the survivor you originally downed is up and running around again.
This can happen infinite times.
Maybe we have Power Struggle/Flip-Flop as well, just for good measure.
How does someone even think an idea this bad into existence?
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Twins is now unplayable 😎
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Not like anyone even plays her but yup.
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I'm pretty sure that would work against any killer out there.
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yes but at least they don’t have to wait 8 seconds after downing a survivor just to go walk across the map to try and pick them up
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Today has been a funny day many laughs😂
Just putting this out there
The Finishing Mori system, anti-slugging mechanic, and other changes mentioned in this post will be available for testing during next week’s Public Test Build. As a reminder, these new features will not be a part of the 6.3.0 update: This is an early preview that is not yet ready for release. We would like to gather your feedback early as we continue developing these features to make their eventual release as smooth as possible.
"This is an early preview that is not yet ready for release"
"We would like to gather your feedback early as we continue developing these features to make their eventual release as smooth as possible."
There are changes coming
And
Don't forget to breathe very important.
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Maybe the feedback has been harsh because there is no redeeming good coming in this new "feature".
Adding basekit mori doesn't necessitate removing moris from offerings and perks. Yet they're doing so.
Basekit unbreakable is absolutely game breaking.
Rancor and Devour are interesting non-meta perks and shouldn't have their uniqueness removed.
Giving hatch is an occasional wholesome interaction in a game usually devoid of it.
Removing potential interesting game outcomes from unexpected perks/rng in favor of....a cutscene?
There's nothing in this to be excited about. Absolutely nothing.
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Whether or not this makes it to live someone somewhere actually proposed this as a change to the game. That transcends the concept of bad ideas, that's actually a crime against reason.
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I misread it the first time too. You actually have to be downed for 45 seconds to use the base kit unbreakable. It doesn't actually reduce the base "recovery" speed from 0.5c/s (I think recovery takes around 30 seconds to max out?) to 0.35c/s.
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Lightborn. Mad Grit. Iron Grasp. Agitation. Awakened Awareness. Starstruck. Stop slugging and hook them. Play Executioner if you are so afraid of carrying them around.
These changes will literally change the game in a positive way. It will not be the same thing anymore. If you are one of those bastards that leave one or more survivors slugged for four minutes every match just to bait others you are going to have to adapt.
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Literally all they had to do was just make the cypress moris basekit. That's all anyone wanted.
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Survivors have to make strategic decisions without communication within a matter of seconds. The logic of this post is that 22 seconds is not enough time for killers to come up with a plan on what to do.
Also: the game shouldn't be balanced around 3/4 SWF unless there is evidence that is the majority of the player base.
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It can’t happen infinite times, the bleedout timer does progress and if they are on the ground a total of four minutes they die.
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That's rather presumptuous, and insulting. And honestly it's also dumb and not thought out, just like this patch. None of those perks would help if a survivor goes down under a pallet and one of their teammates drops it on the pickup. Play Pyramid Head? What if they're not condemned?
And no, I am not the sort of killer to slug every match to bait in other survivors. I don't need to be.
But I know a bad idea when I see one.
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Assuming three survivors playing that little game and one doing gens the game would end before anyone's bleedout timer was up.
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No, the logic behind the post is you are creating a lose/lose scenario. If you pick the survivor up you get pallet stunned and lose the time spent on that chase. Leave them and the other survivor doesn't have to run you for very long before they're back up. If you down the would-be rescuer that survivor makes sure it's under a pallet.
You could fake the chase until you push them away enough then go back, but this is assuming there's only 2 survivors there. If there are 3 committed to chase and going down under pallets with infinite unbreakable what options do you have?
Now imagine the fourth survivor is spending all of their time on gens. Switching off as needed to heal.
Add in Flip Flop/Power Struggle and now you have a proper ####show.
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Okay. That's still bad, but at least I can reset my jaw from the permanently dropped position.
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The mori change is lame af also. I picked this name because I usually always let the last survivor go. We can't choose who gets moried anymore, why not?
This entire patch should be scrapped.
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Love the look of your pig, makes me wish I was good at playing her.
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Thanks. One of my biggest regrets is not getting her rift skin😢
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Maybe they'll bring it in the shop one day like they're currently doing with a couple past Rift skins :(
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So, the following needs to happen
-The survivor gets knocked down under a pallet
-The survivors are coordinated enough that they have a person there to stun you
-They have a backup survivor coordinated in case you chase the first one off
-They are able to repeatedly do this so that you are not able to counter it in the 7.5 minutes it takes the remaining survivor to fix the gens.
-All of this presumes that the numbers stay the same after testing.
I mean at that point you say gg because it sounds like they did a pretty amazing job.
You can still let the last survivor go, just not if everyone is down. While I don't know why they are getting rid of earlier moris, this addition makes sense. It's a waste of time once all survivors are down/hooked. Game's almost certainly done, let's move on.
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Sure, for solos to coordinate in that fashion would be an outstanding display. Lest you have forgotten, SWF's are a thing. And they are quite common once you get to mid-silver, and almost exclusive in Iri.
Second, not just moris, Rancor and Devour Hope as well. Devour is one of the most iconic perks in the game, and the very definition of high risk, high reward. Sometimes there is a particular survivor you want to mori. On rare occasions I've chosen not to use it at all.
Removing gamer choice is pretty much never a good game design decision. And they only work on death hook anyway!
All of this is going to result in matches that can really only play out a couple ways. One of the biggest things DBD had going for it was an almost sandbox feel, where last minute surprises could result in thrilling moments.
Can I give you an example? Sorry for the long post but please bear with me.
I was new to the game, playing Hag on old Haddonfield. I was still pretty bad, but something clicked and I had two survivors killed and one hooked in basement at one Gen left. Down the last survivor, carry them to the hook, and at the last second on the last try survivor in the basement kobes.
I was impressed. I let them out. It was a Meg. I got the Even Punishment achievement that game. I still have the screenshot. It was the first time I ever let a survivor go.
Afterwards we talked about how exciting it was and there were gg's all around. Almost half a decade ago and I remember that game like it was yesterday. No one is going to ever experience that playing this game again. The game would have instantly ended with a lame auto-mori and on to the next match for the same #########.
I can't get behind it man. The chaotic nature of this game is part of what makes it so fun. I look at these proposed changes and imagine what they'll do the the game, and it sounds about as fun as a corporate job at a paper mill.
Sorry for the long post.
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People are obviously free to say whatever, but your viewpoint is 100% correct.
I'm looking forward to the ptb, trying to break/figure out some stuff, etc.
It's impossible to say for sure how things will end up, but the histrionics are in full swing today :P
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Agree entirely. I'm one of the friendly killers that likes to offer hatch, as well.
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Sure, I'm not saying it's easy in the new system to bleed people out, it's still there though.
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1 SWF: The game should not be balanced around them or high MMR. There are constant posts about low MMR hell and how impossible it feels trying to survive. Those people have a right to enjoy the game.
2 I don't know why they are changing Rancor and Decour Hope. They (Peanits) has said that Myers add-ons for instant kills are still in.
3 Your Story: The conceptual problem here is the mercy issue. In this situation there is nothing the survivors could have done to win. I don't think having mechanics to extend the time of the game in the hopes of it impacting a Killer's behavior is a good design element. Another killer perhaps just knocks the survivor back down and puts them on the hook and it was all pointless.
I'm sure there will still be games where it comes down to a second or two deciding it. But, just hypothetically, if I had to lose the 1% of magic games where the survivors mount an amazing last second comeback for the other 99 to be more enjoyable, I'd gladly take that.
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1. Balance the game for top MMR and survivors at the bottom have the opportunity to get better. I should know, if you check my post history you'll see I started playing almost 50/50 survivor killer a couple patches ago and also felt the game was impossible for survivors. I made an effort to get better and now I'm the survivor that killers(in my admittedly low survivor mmr) drop chase with and leave for last. Balance the game for bottom MMR and survivors at the top become indestructible.
2.They changed a lot of Perks to accommodate these ridiculous balance decisions and reading through them they were either rushed or got really lazy. And who the ######### plays Myers aside from the occasional meme game?
3. No, that kobe meant the Meg could have got hatch. I was all the way across the map. I guess it comes down to how much you want to persevere versus saying all hope is lost but honestly man, your mentality right now is why survivors sacrifice themselves in games that aren't a total curbstomp on the killer. We're losing, give up immediately is not a flattering look. And with all the odds stacked the other way and coming out of it victorious I bet that Meg still remembers that game, just like I do.(it really was a nail-biter).
I guess we just don't agree on the direction the game should take.
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We probably do disagree on the direction the game should take. That's not surprising. DBD has a pretty wide player base and I'm sure there are lots of different directions.
1: would be a data issue that I'd be curious to know that I doubt BHVR would reveal. I climbed out of low MMR, but I wonder how many casual players are just there forever.
2: Nothing to add, but I do hit Myers a bit. Probably middle of the pack in terms of frequency.
3: I approve of formal concession in games, like resigning in chess. If the game is almost done (chess equivalent of a couple moves away from checkmate), just play it, it's not that long. But if one player has an absolutely dominant position that it would take a miracle to overcome, then resign, especially if there is a lot of game left to go. It's the respectful thing to do with everyone's time/enjoyment.
Also, I think you are confusing which side of this I have a problem on. Being put into a situation where I have no chance of winning is annoying. Being put in a position where my opponents have no chance to win but it still has to be played out is awful. It's the reason I don't play killer much, that situation where you know you won, but its still going to be five minutes of tracking the survivors down and finishing them off. Anything to speed up that process I'll gladly take.
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1. If I suck at War-zone, should the devs give me auto-aim? Can't hit the timing for a combo in MK 11, should it be patched in for me? This is the only game I've ever experienced where the player base feels entitled to a win without actually putting in the effort to earn it. I'd be really interested to see a pie chart of killer vs survivor mains who play Elden Ring, for example.
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Look to the top-right of this screenshot. Myers doesn't hang out here. You have interesting ideas about balancing the game, would you care to share with me which level you'd like to balance at?
3. This goes back to the tone set by my hag story. Ever been losing as survivor? Like really, REALLY losing? And then with maybe two survivors left someone takes the killer on a chase that let's you finish the rest of the gens?
An uncommon escape? You just go in the zone, tap into the matrix, whatever? Those are the most thrilling moments this game has to offer, and they're about to be erased. In favor of a bland experience where even the most mediocre survivors escape against neutered gimped excuses for killers. To claim what, victory? Certainly not over your fellow gamers. Just a hollow victory over the marshmallows who "balance" this game. It's happening somewhere out there in the Fog, right now you know?
With survivors who refuse to hit that concession button.
And I can only take your final point to mean if you're not winning a game you lose interest in it completely. Your prerogative of course. But as I said, we'll have to agree to disagree.
At least you have the devs on your side.
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Who's talking about intentionally bleeding out? Unlimited Unbreakable + Flip Flop/Power Struggle + a combination of Prove Thyself, Dead Hard, Any Means Necessary and Breakout is a SwF auto-win. Don't be disingenuous It took me less than 30 seconds to think of.
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It's an awful idea but survivor whining is always the loudest so we'll have to wait for this to go in, then game to lose 20% players on steam, and then for this to be changed sometime mid next year.
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1: The difference in your examples is the asymmetrical nature. In those games the changes either go to everyone or no one. Here both sides complain about the difficulty of the other. I find Killer an incredibly simple and straightforward role, while Survivor requires figuring out multiple elements while the game is going on.
2: Balance changes should primarily be made for wherever the majority of their player base is (as an oversimplification, lots of caveats if we really dug into it). If for some reason they were rebuilding the game just for me, there would be a lot of conceptual changes. But I understand they are trying to appeal to a lot of people who are not me and that future changes may turn me off from the game.
3: I guess you would have to define really, really losing. Have there been games where I thought 'we barely have a chance' and pulled it off. Yeah, a few. Take your two survivors example: can a survivor fully repair a gen while the other loops. Absolutely. Two gens? Seems extremely unlikely presuming they haven't been touched, but I'll grant its possible. More than that? Unless the killer is really new and the two players were eliminated via disconnects/being even worse, seems impossible. I've definitely been in games where we got knocked down to 2 and we did our best to loop, hide, heal, and support each other - the end result being really drawing out the game but nothing actually changing.
And I can only take your final point to mean if you're not winning a game you lose interest in it completely. Your prerogative of course. But as I said, we'll have to agree to disagree.That one I'll ask you to read again.
I lose interest if I'm not winning and winning is impossible.
I loathe, absolutely detest, being in a position where my victory is inevitable.
When I play Killer, I'm begging for good survivors. By far the most enjoyable games I've had as Killer have been when I lost and hit a SWF and/or flashlight blind squads. That's great. Hitting a group of survivors I massacre is what makes me want to uninstall the game.
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It's because the Finishing Mori can end a game with little to no hooks. Basekit Unbreakable is about encouraging an important aspect of the game: hooking. It's a bandaid solution to a problem that wouldn't exist had they just scrapped the Finishing Mori
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How am I being disingenuous? Everything I said is accurate.
And where did I say "intentionally bleeding out"?
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I am sure the devs will see in the ptb that Unbreakeable will be way too strong. The ability to pick yourself up after 45 seconds at basekit is great however, but Unbreakeable will definitely need to be toned down again. Maybe even just keeping it at 30% increased recovery speed will be more than enough, since it will have unlimited use now. No reason to buff it to such a ridiculous level.
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Literally no one is upset about not being able to bleed people out. They are upset about an entire mechanic being removed from killers. One that I have only had good interactions in post game with survivors about. They realized they ######### up or I out played them and say how fun it was. In my one and a half years of playing dbd I have gotten salt for slugging ONCE. Survivors are overexaggerating about bleeding out not killers.
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NO you do not balance around the majority, you balance around top level and I don't mean the top 1% I mean 10 to 20%. No game ever with even the slightest smidge of competitiveness balances around the majority which is gold and silver in most games. And if you think this game is 100% casual you are sorely mistaken.
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I do agree on devour that was one of my favorite perks to run.
Play the PTB and give the feedback that they want to hear.
Most of what I read yesterday are just players jumping to conclusions take the one match and acting like it's every match.
I'm on console so I can't take part in it, but exactly everything that was said could be changed in some sort of way or not even make it to live version.
Only time can tell. The unbreakable base kit that everyone was flipping out on is what was giving me the chuckles😂 The only way it could be that bad that so many that were having a nervous breakdown about was if they play to slug everyone. If everyone is waiting to Pallet save their not on gens.
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There are no 'changes' that can make this feature acceptable. It's scrap or nothing.
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All the killer mains are crying about Unbreakable being too strong to be basekit, while all the survivor mains are dancing in sadistic glee about having Unbreakable as basekit.
Nobody seems to care about the fact that the new mori system only encourages a far more obnoxious slugging playstyle, that will be even more toxic than it currently is, while removing player agency.
As someone who 'identifies' as a killer main, but realistically plays much more survivor lately due to killer being so unfun to play, I don't care at all about Unbreakable as a killer, it's the Mori system I hate. I don't want the freedom to choose where and when to Mori taken away.
I do hate Unbreakable as basekit as a survivor though, because now there is no incentive to rescue survivors in the dying state. Solo survivor is about to get even more 'Solo' and 'everyone for themselves' as I get left on the floor for the entire 45s. Which will likely end up being more than 45s once they realise 45s is far too short of a duration. So I guess I'll be abandoned by my team mates for 60s or 90s instead. I like playing as a team.
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I'm kind of interested to see if anyone comes up with a 'end the game ASAP' build using a 1 shot killer + exposed perks.
I'm definitely on the fence about the update as a whole, but I'm interested in messing around with the mechanics.
People act as though things won't be adjusted if necessary, which is a bit dishonest, as BHVR has actually been pretty good with making certain changes in a timely manner as of late.
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But, isn't that the way killer is supposed to be played? Camp, tunnel and slug for the 4K?
If you're not playing like that, you're not playing killer correctly. Isn't that the first rule in the killer handbook? 😂
I'm sure they'll make the right changes if needed and if not it'll be scraped.
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Yes decent killers are a dying breed, and apparently that's the way it's intended.
The game's being reduced to the sweatiest camp and tunnel fests, with no freedom of deviating from the path, no options, no fun.
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handing basekit unbreakable in a game where bully squads exist IS going to increase 4 man swf partys preying on killers. As a resort you will see more tunneling and camping.
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I do agree with that everyone does take this game way too seriously. Entitled to the win
I haven't played for a couple weeks or so my last matches my killer games weren't bad I play the 12 hook game, but everyone of my survivor games were just camp and tunnel braindead gameplay (no thinking required) if I can't have fun on both sides when I play it's time for a break.
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