Survivors know how to counter a killer, but they don't do so.
Hello, so yesterday I was playing some matches as a killer, mostly I play as a hag on a pretty "high mmr".
And yesterday I went up against a lot of streamers across my games. In all of these games, survivors were losing pretty badly. (all dead and 1 gen done, all dead and 2 gens done)
Out of curiosity, after each this match I went to their stream to watch a replay of that match to actually see what mistakes were they doing. I'm not going to link the videos, coz not all streamers I was up against were nice with words.=) It happened to be 4 man swf, in 3 matches.
I just want to mention: I play hag differently, I know there is a quite stereotypes about hag players that they all proxy camping hooks (putting traps under the hook), they're all a basement hags, they're always using strongest addons, etc... I don't play hag that way, I never put traps under the hooks, I never tunnel someone out, I might down a same survivor due to insta teleport hit but I wouldn't hook him again. I'm just trying to push hag gameplay in a more exited and fun way for both sides.
This is my perks:
And this is addons:
Now to the topic: These survivors clearly know how to counter hag. Each match some of them happened to have flashlights, once they noticed they're up against a hag, they already trying to prepare a good strategy like:
- First of all, brake her 3-gen. You do this gen, I do this gen...
- Someone needs to go after her with a flashlight and remove as much traps as possible.
- Call out about all traps she puts, and destroy them when she's carrying someone.
While I watching replay I was thinking: "Ok, these guys know how to counter, how did they F-up so badly?"
The game gone downhill for survivors, when I hit the one with a flashlight and put a trap on it. I hit him, and moved to near gen (I don't usually chasing with hag) trapping on my way to my 3-gen. They guy who got hit said: "She's not chasing, she's going to you, I'm gonna pick up my flashlight back", he crouches over his flashlight, he picked it and immediately triggered a trap and got down, he said: "This is why everyone hate hag". The hook was really close, so I picked him up instantly and put on it, from that moment, a complete chaos started, they didn't done a single gen, 3 other guys were running around like a headless chikens, trying to trigger traps, they were getting hit left and right, I was retrapping my traps every single hit from place, to the point where 1 guy still on hook (there is no traps under him), 2 other guys down, 1 last injured, other guy said: "I'm done with this match, let me die". I noticed last survivor moved to the shack which I trapped... And thats it. Last guy went down, match was over.
I was having a blast of negativity through out the match while I was watching replay, I didn't put gg in the end-game chat since it was really quick match and I felt like they were purposely throwing.
Same goes to other matches, survivors clearly know what to do, but they just don't do anything that they saying.
Is it all because of a tilt? Maybe because of a boredom? Maybe they just lazy to countering certain killers?
Saying that this killer is boring to vs is a nonsence to me. IMO, anyone who saying: "This killer is so boring", are clearly have skill issues against a killer they're facing, they just want the game to win itself.
Dear survivors, if you know what to do against that killer, why you don't do that? Not everyone ofc...
I decided to create a post coz today I came across the same thing. They know what to do, but don't do it.
I'd like to see opinions on that part.
Comments
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Don’t let people like that get to you. Hag mains in general get my respect but your play style makes it better and even sounds pretty fun, for you and the survivors. When I play hag I’m guilty of playing proxy hook hag most of the time, don’t judge me lol.
To your question, I think it’s the explanation is SWFs tend to be way too altruistic, making dumb moves to save their friends at all costs. This is made worse when they “think” you are camping/tunneling or they “feel” you are playing unfairly. You did absolutely nothing wrong teleporting back to the guy who needed his flashlight back, that was his misplay, and your opportunity.
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I actually don't care if they got salty or whatever... I'm just wandering... Is this an actual kind of survivors, who's always asking for certain killer reworks, or nerfs?
Because it feels like this is exactly a kind of survivors, which asking for killer reworks or nerfs... And this is not right.
Don't ask for a nerf or rework, if you can't play against it properly. Hag is not op.
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Sadly people generally want either wins handed to them or others to play how they want, fairness be damned.
And worry not, there are people who know Hag isn't op.
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I can't speak for those guys, but I will shed my perspective on versing a Hag. I will go through on your items first:
- Breaking a 3 gen against a hag is harder than it sounds. Corrupt Intervention sets you up for a 3 gen immediately as by the time survivors mobilize to available gens, you have time to set a web in the vicinities. Hags can also use Corrupt as a safety net. In case the game is derailing and you lost your 3 gen before downing someone, you can migrate to the 3 blocked gens and set a web there (excepting when you've spawned in the middle of the map, then tough luck). Finally, breaking a 3 gen also requires at least 2 coordinated survivors.
- Setting someone to distress the Hag by disabling traps can be tough as it requires a Flashlight or practice activating the traps while shifting your direction away from it. This alternative does not demands a coordinated team, however, requiring an item to properly counter a killer is just a coin toss where the odds are stacked against you as the killer can dodge the lobby if they see 2+ flashlights. Also, it's not always possible to trigger a trap and dodge a hit with movement alone, especially if you're already injured.
- Call out traps again requires coordination and vision. The former requiring voice comms as we have no in-game means of communicating danger, and latter being difficult to achieve in cramped indoor spaces where one has little alternatives of movement. Knowing were traps are also doesn't solve the issue of disarming them as you need a specific item. IMO, Hag's power is fundamentally annoying to deal with, it's an item check.
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At some point most Survivors can counter a Killer but pressure gets to some of them and they start thinking of saving teammates rather then continuing with the counter
There are some Survivors who just don't care (want to have a good time rather then sweat)
Have ideas of how to do it but get shutdown
There are a lot of reasons... but yea anytime a SWF losses they blame the Killer rather then looking at what each other did
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Yes, I completely agree on all 3 points. I never anywhere said that hag is easy to counter, but here's a thing.
I could tell by their account lvl (at least one of them), that they were playing this game for a really long time, much longer than me, and if the matchmaking system matches them with me (I've had a lot of 3-4k for a long time with Hag), that means that these guys have escaped a lot of matches. Which is also means, that they're good. I also looked up for their previous matches just to see how they loop a killer and etc... They're playing for wins clearly. They're "sweating".
What am I trying to say... Guys, if you want to win in your games, you have to use a counter tactic against each killer you're facing. If you're good against Oni, it doesn't mean that the same tactic will be good against hag. Besides, you know how to play against her, why you got tilted and silently throw a match after first hook?
Yes I know, hag is rare. So thats probably why they got comfy against certain killers and probably got rusty against a hag...
Also, you don't really need a flashlight against hag, you can trigger trap and instantly change your direction to prevent a hit. Only if you expect the trap in that place...
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with the last part, scrollwheel hags exists.
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Well, I'm not gonna lie, I'm sweating as heck when I'm up against a strong survivors. But mostly because I play her differently. I'm trying to play her as less annoying as possible as I mentioned in my first message. Me and survivors are actually having more fun when I play that way.=)
A good ammount of survivors after my games in the end-game chat were really bumped up and had a lot of fun, they were not mad at all even if they lost. But when survivors getting angry at me even knowing that I don't proxy camp or tunnel as hag... Actually kinda upsets me sometimes.=)
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Hag requires competent team work to even stand a chance against.
In my opinion, she's the strongest killer after Nurse,
Your playstyle is disgusting to go against, Let's look at what you wrote...
- First of all, brake her 3-gen. You do this gen, I do this gen...
- Someone needs to go after her with a flashlight and remove as much traps as possible.
- Call out about all traps she puts, and destroy them when she's carrying someone.
Your ''counter'' to Hag is to have excellent communicative skills, that means solo players instantly lose against Hag.
The perks are all meta, the cicada is one the top 3 add-ons for her, 3 gening is always ignored by solo players, and even if one or two players noticed it, the rest won't.
Why did you make this thread? Do you really need us to convince you that you played fairly?
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You're still not going to reach.=) I played hag through scrollwheel, still wasn't enough to reach, so I went back to ctrl. I got used to its timing.
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Again pressure put on the Survivors (and your playstyle) make the Survivors second guess themselves... or overthink other things
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Wait what.. xD Why my playstyle is disgusting?=) You think I should proxy-camp and tunnel like others and have more less fun matches?
In the match I was describing they were not a soloq. They were 4 people on discord with a clear intent to escape, not for fun.=) I watched the replay.
About perks... I'm up against a strong survivors almost each match due to a lot of 3-4k, I mentioned I'm playing on high mmr, survivors always bring most meta perks against me, especially DH which is so good against hag insta teleport, flashlights and toolboxes...
You want me to don't proxy camp, don't tunnel, don't run any perks? Oo
I don't think you've read my thread correctly.=)
I've said why I maked this thread in my first message btw, look at the end.=)
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If we're being honest its laziness. And its not just in SWF its especially prevalent in Solo Queue survivor matches as well. And I don't think many survivors play killer enough to actually see it happen. Like you can visibly see them screwing each other over, or just straight up ignoring mechanics sometimes. Its honestly the same mentality in every pvp based competition game. at least 3 people wanna take the game serious the other 2 to 7 people in games like this don't give a damn. In this game, you have 1 player, the killer who will likely take things seriously every game. And then you have 4 Survivors And at least 1 to 2 of them will throw the game. We can talk about balance till we're blue in the face. But at the end of the day if everyone isn't giving 100% of the effort then we're just talking.
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You don't need items to counter hag you can just crouch over traps. And 99% of the time they're in the most obvious anti loop spots you can think of. Breaking a 3 gen on a hag isn't complicated at all. All the gens spawn in ridiculously obvious positions, you have mid, and you have exterior....DO THE MIDS FIRST!!! PERIOD!
"Setting someone to distress the hag by disabling traps" <---Don't waste all your damn time by doing this....shes a slow M1 killer who is the equivalent of training wheels to loop other than blinkless nurse which you will likely never get in a match. And all the traps in his match were easy to call out as the op stated these were all SWF teams and streamers <---coms are already implied. Urban Evasion dumps all over hag.
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We have to agree that playing SWF with comms makes up for a lot of shortcomings. You're not required to learn much to deliver good results, except against non-conventional killers.
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