Map offerings are absolute gamebreakers
unless the Maps get a real balance overhaul that balances them, Map offerings favor the survivors really hard, because 4 People can decide where to go, and more often then not i get the worst maps for the killers like Crow, or Farm maps.
In hands of Voice chatting SWF this becomes even more in the Survivors favor.
Is this really necessary?
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Tbh maps really depend on your preference and knowledge. Personally as killer i love coldwind farm and eyrie of crows and do very well on them. It is a little unbalanced for swfs as they have 4 offerings to the killers one so get a lot more flexibility with their offerings as a team. But what can you do? Players do need a way to be able to pick maps because rng sucks. It might skew the odd match involving sweaty 4 person swfs. But on the whole i have no issues with mechanic. Except maybe the whole 4 of the same offering can counteract a sacrificial ward. Maybe remove that as it skews the balance very heavily towards 4 man swfs who are already organised enough as it is without being able to choose the map too.
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I think they should just remove the green map offerings and bring back the old brown ones. That at least didn't guarantee you get your chosen realm.
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Its actually not guaranteed. I think it says "greatly increases" your chances of getting the map in game. That being said I played in a match the other day where there was 4 different map offerings and none of them were the map we played on. Just for transparency sake I will say I only bring map offerings so I don't get Autohaven or MacMillian for the 10th million time.
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Map offerings used by either side shouldn't be a thing.
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It's a 99% chance so that's wild
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Honestly this!
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Bye bye Ghost Face and Mirror Myers. You won't work without indoor maps.
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Map offerings should be nerfed by a lot or even better, removed.
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It's not an issue of preference. It has more to do with most of the maps are very one sided for survivor. I lost every time I went to Thompson House, Gardeb of Joy, Eyrie of crows and Fractured Cow shed getting to rank 1 killer this month. Those maps are ridiculously busted when playing as killer.
I won every time I was on The game, RPD and Lerys - even though those maps also favor the survivor. It's not a knowledge/awareness problem as some of the maps are almost a guaranteed loss if you are not playing the top 2 killers and you are playing against efficient survivors (with at least two people in a SWF).
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I'd keep Map offerings if we get rid of Map RNG. Fixed Maps with fixed gen spawns and fixed loops. That way everyone can learn Maps and the advantage becomes playing a Map that doesn't screw Visibility or FPS.
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Just had a game against a 4 People SWF, they used a offering for the game and made boon on some corner of the map and of course i had no time to search both stares where it is and all survivors where instantly healed u can imagine it.
i played 2 games, both of them where pure hell with 4swf with voicechats and the maps they liked. 2 games and i already have enough for today. Is this how this game should be?
No one, not the Killer and not the survivors should be able to decide what map will come.
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As a Ghost Face main, ######### offerings. Not having to play on Eyrie every third game as Ghostie would be heaven.
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If map design was fixed the issue would be way smaller, but until that happens I agree map offerings probs do need something done.
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Be that as it may it'd be better to ask for balanced maps rather than removing map offerings.
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I've been saying for a long time to nerf current offerings to map drop chance (but keep killer unchanged, at least for maps like Lary's to play as Myers with a mirror)
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If you lose every time on those maps it's skill issue. Badham middle school is probably my weakness where I lose most games but at least I win some. But I have good success in eyric of crow and garden of joy winning majoroty of my games in those.
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We can have both.
"No it's a "you are playing the wrong killer issue".
I refuse to play Nurse/Blight right now as they are the killers that work. It's easy mode when not against SWF.
Should I be rude to you sand say you lose on Badham - you have no skill. No instead I will say that Badham IV is "ok" and the rest are trash.
Efficient players+SWF+Large maps = lose on certain killers.
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But why remove people's ability to choose maps? Especially when there are map centric achievements people may want to go for. Especially if maps were balanced. Tbh i can't see that any of them is a definite lose for killer or survivor anyway. Depends on where gens spawn. So even in a single map there is a degree of randomness.
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-"But why remove people's ability to choose maps?"
The solution is simple if you have two children. How do you make sure a dessert is perfectly divided between the two? One cuts and the other chooses which piece they want.
Change the system so that picking a map lets the opposing side choose which version you get. Example : you pick Corn map as survivor and as Killer I will always pick Abattoir as it is the least broken corn map.
One of these is not like the other. Of these five maps a killer will almost certainly always pick Abattoir over every other option given the choice. Why? Because small maps are more fair to killers that are not Nurse/Blight.
Indoor maps would combine several of the old offerings - maybe combine: Haddonfield,Lerys, Crotus Penn, The Game.
You say i want to go to one of those maps and the killer picks the option (or vice versa).
This way you get a choice and the opposing player gets a choice. Everyone wins?
If you watch a number of content creators their game "crashes" whenever people use certain offerings. That's the current reality because most people are not picking a map based on whim. They have a strategy in mind they want to abuse by picking the map.
Being able to pick the map like this would be about as fair as being able to use an offering before going to a lobby to guarantee which killer you play against. Or imagine if a killer had an offering for : "next lobby can't have any SWF in it."
Simply put : picking the map is broken. If a killer is broken by not playing on an indoor map then maybe certain addons should force an indoor map.
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Well... I will be very happy with your pick of abattoir over rotten fields (even if it isn't my favourite Thomson's house - not even largest of the lot). Same way as I will be very happy, that you will not pick shelter woods as it's the largest one from the realm I think. Map size is not everything. Shelter has nothing useful on the edges, so effective map size is much smaller. Same way rotten fields has nothing but dangerous shack with basement in the middle making effective size way smaller.
As for picking the map... My group does use map offerings almost always. But you would be surprised, that most of the time we don't even care to share which map did we pick, because it doesn't matter. My group does it to a, not repeat maps b, to not go into lery's, midwitch or RPD. That's it.
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Thompson House was fair back in like 2018 or so when the upstairs generator was almost a death trap (in the era when Trapper could block the only stair up). It was however a dumb map because the doors were fixed away from each other on opposite sides and had stupidly strong pallet loops in high density. When they altered the map to the modern version they made it even more survivior sided.
"Map size is not everything."
You're right but all things being equal smaller maps are more fair to the killer. On Macmillan I would always choose : Groaning Storehouse or Ironworks of Misery. Those maps are more fair to the killer with larger natural dead zones and a non busted main building loop (but IoM was once stupidly broken with a built in near infinite window). Coal Tower is smaller on the same tileset but has stupidly high resource density.
"My group does use map offerings almost always"
Don't be surprised then if you pick a map killers hate and the game doesn't load - just saying.
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Kind of a cool idea. Letting the opposite side pick the map variant. And maybe if survivors bring two conflicting map offerings then killer gets to choose between the two as well.
I suppose this is probably something that's more of an issue with high level play. I've only got about 7 days play time, I know the maps reasonably well, but at my level of play I can't say that I feel that there are any maps that appear to favour killer or survivor. I just know that i hate midwich elementary school with every fibre of my being.
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For killer DC during loading - It doesn't happen often, but it does happen. And we don't really care. Waiting time is quite quick so no worries there. Also as noted before - we will rotate all the maps in 1 session. Probably some map more then once but it would be very unlikely to play the same map 3 times. So most of the killers don't have real reason to complain (except the unlucky ones that get the game or springwood offerings).
For map selection - sure. I would be very happy to get you to pick maps for me. Both ironworks and groaning are pretty good maps for us. There are enough resources and good loops. However I am afraid most killers would always choose shelter woods (no resources, possibly 6 pallets on whole maps, some mc millan tiles don't contain anything loopable - sometimes not a single window or a pallet) and rotten fields (huge dead zone at the middle if you don't count risky shack - with no way out to any loop from shack once "depleted", basement is always a possibility no matter where you get downed, low resources with only tiles that can screw you over under bad RNG) for us.
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When you know the game better you'll see how most of the maps favor survivors for the majority of the killer roster
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Large maps favor survivors vs most of the killer roster. They only backfire vs Blight/Nurse who move much faster (and occasionally something random like pig b/c the boxes are far away or looking for totems vs a killer like Demo who can make them impossible to touch).
Small maps cause survivors using Shift+W to lead the killer to someone working on a generator. This allows for multiple survivor pressure without tunneling.
Disturbed ward is 11,008m² and Father Campbell's chapel is 8960m². RNG can be a cruel mistress on the chapel windows but it is incredibly easy to three gen because it is much smaller.
Shelter woods has no rules with the terrain spawns. You can get almost nothing or you can have jungle gym next to L/T next to a jungle gym next to shack. Generally speaking it is one of the most wildly unfair maps because the gen spawns are random, the terrain is random and overall the map is way too big.
"I would be very happy to get you to pick maps for me. Both ironworks and groaning are pretty good maps for us."
I play without mercy vs SWF unless I see they are swaddling babes or I tunnel someone out and then I back off a bit. I like both storehouse and Iron works because both maps almost always give me a very easy to defend three gen setup. The last few games on Storehouse especially I hooked someone on a corner or end "wing" and essentially forced the survivors to give me a trade to force a rescue which still does not allow the game to advance for them. The size of Ironworks favors the killer because as soon as the upstairs door is broken the middle building becomes a huge dead zone that needs to be avoided.
My favorite map for survivors to pick is The Game. As Nemesis I have only lost on that map about once or twice. It's small, there are only about 3 useful vault locations and the pallets become irrelevant once you whip two survivors. This is one of the easiest maps to hold a three or four gen depending on RNG (if you are not an M1 killer). You might as well go afk if you are an M1 killer and the survivors pick that map however. That's not fair to anyone.
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Ok. You play without mercy. I play for fun. You will very rarely see me with commodius toolbox + brand new part. Usually I take brown or yellow medkit and saboteur (both pretty meh things) + CoH (which almost always eats more time then taking SC - but I don't take SC out of principle, because of those last nerfs). My team takes SC+Botany so it's really not useful to take boon. What I am trying to say is, that I don't genrush, because it's no fun. And I hate camp/tunnel, because it's also no fun.
But I understand, that some people just want to win. That's OK. But most OP tactics should be fun. It would be good for game health.
As for the maps - OK. You have your reasons. I am glad you prefer absolute size to effective size. For that reason your choices are more enjoyable to me - which is perfect for both of us :)
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"But most OP tactics should be fun. It would be good for game health."
Gen rushing the killer is literally the same thing as the Killer tunneling someone out of the game. Patrick made it very clear the objective in DBD is to get kills - not get lots of hooks to make the Entity happy.
DBD is not a fun/fair game when it is 4 efficient survivors vs 1 killer. DBD is remotely fair when everyone is a noob. As soon as you reach mid tier ranks tunneling becomes the default strategy that works. You will lose the game as survivor when you get a gen 20% completed and that progress is reset over and over again.
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Oh god. We have statistics that say 61% killrate. We are also informed (I don't know how truthful this one is, but I believe it), that survivors at high MMR still win more often then they loose. To balance the statistics it does not take rocket scientist to assume, that noob killer will most probably slaughter noob survivors very very hard. Otherwise where would the number 61% (+ high MMR survivors being OK) come from? If your idea of fair game is killer slaughtering the other side... Then I have nothing more to talk to you.
As for genrush - I already wrote so in message above. Camp+tunnel+genrush = no fun. All 3 of them. Even if they are optimal tactics
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The 61% kill rate is very likely inflated from survivors that were organizing protests where they died on purpose.
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Yeah. They died out of protest! To pad killer stats! Same way as killers were padding escapes for last 5 years! Let's organize no padding protest!!!!1!1!1! /s
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You know that more Survivors die on first hook, with the intend to buff kill stats?
And that more Survivor mains now play killers and facecamp and tunnel other survivors to death, for the same reason and also to piss off survivors making them angry and revolt too?
no?
now u know
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Maps should be balanced. Map offerings should remain so long as rng can send you to the same map multiple times in a row. I don't much appreciate getting macmillans 5 times in a row without an offering.
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That's crap. It's same kind of thinking like killers give hatch not because of good gameplay (same way as survivors give items if not pleading for mercy), but because they want to screw statistics. It's just not true. Most of survivors that suicide wants to play new game, because they can't be bothered to play that one (be it for any kind of reason - maybe because they were caught first and because they know there are enough killers after last few "balancing" patches that in time they could be unhooked they can be in new game)
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Killer should have higher priority for map offerings and survivors each should only be 12.5% so the only way to combat a killer offering is having everyone put up map offerings it would become a 50/50 killer/survivor chance
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But that is still not fair. If it's not SWF where everyone can coordinate to give map (and in solo this is not the case even if you could write them and they would all read it). So killers will almost always get his map under these conditions.
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The game itself isn't fair, it is 4v1 the killer literally has to have control thinned out over 7 gens, chasing 1 survivor at a time and getting three hook states on each survivor. Survivors only need to focus on doing generators and not getting hooked a third state. It is 2 sides so giving the side, that has more to focus on, a little more room by having greater map control, characters specifically chosen and favored by the Entity to feed it, would lessen the numerous amount of tasks on killer. Maps have very little impact on survivors but some maps are better and worse for certain killers.
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Sure. Because killer has same speed as survivor and no extra power. Also survivors can remove killer from game. Or... The game takes into account that it's 4v1. And it taked it so much into account, that single killer wins on avarage more then 3 out of 5 games by official stats. And this works like I described even as survivors have easier time to pick their map right now.
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