PLEASE make Hag playable
It's not a skill issue. I can't do it anymore. I don't think Hag in her current form has been thought through at all. If you go against survivors who know how to play against her, you automatically lose. Her web of traps is what makes her dangerous. When survivors, even just 1 or 2, keep tripping your traps you lose all your power. "Then hit them." You CAN'T. It isn't that simple with Hag. Because the survivor movement/camera is broken in this game, it's very exploitable. So what survivors are doing is spinning into the Hag trap so that they can be running as you teleport there. Even when you have a macro for teleporting to your traps, it doesn't matter because they're already running. You may get lucky and get a hit, but that's about it. If you don't commit to the down, you don't get anything out of that hit, but if you commit to that chase you lose the game. If they ran head-first into your trapped area, whatever's left of it, then you might get the down. But why would they do that? No, they'll run away to safety where you haven't trapped, and where a teammate/boon is there to heal them in 15-20 seconds. I've honestly started to question "pro" Hags, just because their survivors seem to make it so easy on them.
Her problems are indicative of killer problems in general. Doesn't get rewarded for getting hits, has no map mobility, has to have everything go right to have anything, and is 110% and for what? Because she can teleport? It's time people realized how weak killers are, in terms of their power and in terms of what you can do with their power. I can loop a Wesker or a Blight for quite a bit before going down, because their limitations are apparent and exploitable. Now take the other killers, like Hag, who have nowhere near that level of map mobility or lethality. What can't good survivors do to beat them? Often times they have built-in counterplay! Why can survivors destroy her traps with flashlights? But I think if we look at what's wrong with Hag, her massive amount of counterplay, the massive qol changes she needs, her add-on variety, etc, and we fix it, we'll push this game in a direction to make killer way more bearable.
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If Hag were any stronger, she'd easily be No 2, right behind nurse.
The skill gap between versing Good survivors and Great Survivors is massive, you're not use to playing against survivors that know how to play against you. Remember Hag still has a semi-decent chase potential with Traps, the most important thing as hag is to keep resetting traps. if you've placed down 10 but your first 2-3 never got sprung, its time to move it. Even if your trap placement is in optimal it's better to have your traps down then none at all.
It sounds like your main problem is that your hag is predictable, and your trap placement is stale/too easy for survivors to find and disarm. just because your trap is triggered doesn't mean you have teleport. Faking setting up a trap or not teleporting to a triggered trap will waste survivor time and give you more time to set up. Survivors know that Hag time more valuable then normal killer time so don't waste your time. Every second wasted spent trying to trigger a non-existent trap, or spinning around a triggered trap is enough time for you to set up 2-3 new traps.
For your pick up problem Agitation Star struck should fix the problem, or a better idea set up around the hook before you pick up. That way even if survivors too start to dismantle your web you've already defended your hook. If your trap is being flashlight burned is actually better then having the survivors trip them in most circumstances, teleporting to a triggered trap is worse than a trap straight up being destroyed.
in the advanced survivors situation, you're best bet in High MMR is dragon's grip, Corrupt, Starstruck Agitation. TbH Starstruck agitation is kinda hacky on Hag, set up 2 -3 traps before hooking and then set up another 2-3 while Starstruck denies Hook rushing. Although this play style will make everyone hate you. Or if you truly wish for a brain dead build, Bloody blueprint, agitation, MYC, monstrous shrine, iron grasp and set up immediately around basement, after getting your first down in your web, it's pretty much GG for Altruistic survivors. For more optimal survivors you still lose if the gen spread is not near your web.
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I disagree, but even if she was top 2, she takes enough mechanical skill to justify her being that strong. My Hag is not predictable, but even if it was, how does that justify survivors being able to movement exploit and not get hit by my traps when I instantly tp? It's literally a character not performing the way they're intended. I am placing traps around corners to jump scare, but also around loops which you're supposed to be able to do. A survivor making it their sole purpose to disrupt your traps is all you need to lose the whole thing.
I like how the "solution" to all this is having instadowns through a perk, which you can't even get if you don't get a down. Smart survivors will not give you the down. They'll get hit by a trap they weren't expecting, then hold forward to the other side of the map where you obviously haven't had time to trap. Then heal up, come back, and start screwing up your traps again. You cannot follow them and commit to the chase with Hag, because Hag doesn't chase. The amount of time you'd spend just to down that person, since you're a 110%, combined with people setting off all your traps the moment you commit to anything, leaves you with less momentum overall. Instadowns don't change this, because they see you have it, and they don't push in until it's gone, but that doesn't mean they don't have enough time to do gens and saves. And using Dragon's Grip? Forget it; it won't work.
Against survivors who know the counterplay to Hag, Hag doesn't stand a chance. They are in complete control. The only thing that get them is a lucky hidden trap, which they can react to instantly and be running already, and after that they won't fall for it again. Hag is a character from old DBD, way outdated, way in need of a buff. We could make her traps actually work, we could make her 115%, or we could give her more traps, but she needs to be better. We can't just put on Rusty Shackles, which isn't even playing proper Hag at that point, and call it a day.
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I don't know what to say but when I play Hag I win mostly because most Survivors have no idea on how to counter her since nobody plays her. I myself saw Hag only 3 times this year.
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Truth be told hag is so unfun to go against id rather her get a full rework then any kind of buffs or fixes that would make her more common.
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I've never understood why most people hate going against Hag. You trip traps. They don't even injure you guaranteed like Trapper's.
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The Hag is far from unplayable. She is in her weakest state since her initial buff back in 2018 (Circle of Healing and the meta change made playing her harder) and yeah, playing her against skilled survivors is currently really stressful, but she is still an A tier killer.
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1. Her traps scare the ######### out of me or give me almost zero chance to counterplay. She just has the same problem as trapper but hag is stronger.
2. Her counterplay is just crouch walk around or hope she hadn't setup traps there.
3. People all play Her the same they stick to one area and never chase outside it and God help you if you get hooked there. She doesn't chase she just waits for you to hit a trap you didn't see and get a free hit.
Does she have counterplay? Yes, it's just not fun to play against.
Also trappers traps are significantly easier to see and are much harder to for the trapper to reposition and set.
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How does that make sense? She's A tier, but it's a stress fest when survivors know how to play against. Y'all act like tier lists are made, not gaging how good a killer does at top level, but how much better of a noob stomper they are. A tier my behind.
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From what I read, you just say you can't play Hag, that you don't like him.
Hag is no problem at all.
It's really you who's having trouble with it.
Because once you set your traps it's child's play to teleport and beat up the survivors.
You can even shoot away just by camping a single survivor on the hook.
In fact you have to keep in mind that Hag is a spider.
If you don't think like a spider, you lose.
If you don't learn to hide when you set your traps and to set your traps in unexpected places, you lose.
Check out Main Hag's YouTube videos:
Mitchi and Negoose.
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its her camping. her camping not fun to play against. she is like best proxy camper in the game because her traps allow her to be in two places at once which is at the hook and in the chase. Very similar to twins victor hook gameplay. She is not really good at prevent unhooks but she is really good at hook trading. she is not unplayable but i dislike playing against her and I find her too simple to play. her gameplay way too 1 dimensional.
her mechanical skill is among lowest in the game. you place traps, survivor run into them, you press tp and hit them. in term of using ability, not much complexity. her complexity comes from how you place traps.
They'll get hit by a trap they weren't expecting, then hold forward to the other side of the map where you obviously haven't had time to trap. Then heal up, come back, and start screwing up your traps again.
I think your misunderstanding how hag's gameplay loop works. Hag places traps in circular web-like fashion because entire idea behind her trapping system is that you hit someone, they run forward and as they run outwards, you place traps ahead of the survivor such that when they run forward, they hit a trap as you recover from basic attack swing. it gives you a pseudo 2 hit combo. Its just that better player understand her tactic so there are tactics to counter her gameplay and because of how 1 dimensional she is, she is too predictable of a killer such that when you know how to counter her strategy, she is not very effective. she just destroys weak teams that have lack of coordination. Another soloq stomper if your teammate are bad.
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I tried all that. I like Hag. When you're going against survivors who don't bother to trip traps, she's fine. But the way you hear it from other people, she has "no counterplay" except crouching through her traps, which we know is the wrong way to play against her. It's child's play for the survivors if they just have 1-2 people pushing traps and 1-2 pushing gens. Hag cannot chase, because she's 110%. You technically can, but you're gonna lose the whole game. You can set up a zone of traps, but the survivors trip a few, and all that planning is down the drain.
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She's miserable to verse in her current state, no thanks.
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It's not that simple. She can't be in 2 places at once. When she's chasing someone, and a trap goes off, she has to tp to that trap to hit the person, thus dropping the chase she was in. That's detaching, which any killer can do. And y'all say she's so good at camping, but she doesn't have time to just do that. She also has to set up traps, and when the survivors go to hoo save, you're in another detach scenario, because if you leave where you're setting up traps, and tp back to hook, who's to say a survivor doesn't destroy all your traps the second you leave? You had to pressure the unhook, but you can't afford to instantly lose your traps you just set down, so what do you do?
STBFL can help, I know, but even assuming you don't have an aggressive obsession, it's still hard for Hag to down. She either has to chase as a 110%, or she has to hope that a survivor gets successfully hit by a trap 2 times consecutively. And even when you down them, there goes your web of traps against survivors who know what they're doing. This isn't even going into flashlights or maps, which can totally beat out your power. Survivor movement exploits can even beat out your power. They spin, and are already running even when you instantly tp, making your power pointless. There's no counter to that either, nothing you can physically do, except placing a trap in anticipation of them tripping another trap, which they're just as likely to see you plant.
I know how to play her, and she's not as simple as people say. In theory, sure. In reality, not at all. She was not designed to have an even playing field against people who know how to play against her, which is the same for most killers.
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So because you personally don't like her, she deserves to rot? Believe me, I've felt that way about Nurse. But Nurse is unfun because of how strong she is. Hag is unfun, to you, but she's weak. Do you not see the problem? She's supposed to be able to instantly tp to an activated trap, and hit the survivor, but she can't. Could you imagine if another killer's power, like Twins or Nemesis, straight-up didn't work, how much outrage there would be? Hopefully some at least, because I know people could care less about those killers as well.
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1-2. Just crouch walking isn't a good way of countering her. The most optimal way of countering the Hag is to approach her traps, trigger them from the edge of their radius, outside her hit range, and quickly run away before to make harder for her to get a hit. If you keep successfully doing that, she will fail to build her web and won't get many hits from triggered traps, and without a web, downing survivors can be quite hard. Is it easier said than done? Sure, but countering a killer's power is not supposed to be easy anyway. The Hag too has to be really precise in other to counter skilled survivors.
3. Begginer and more average Hags might play quite similarly, but no, not all Hags play the same. Skilled Hags know there is more to her power than just placing simple traps and then camp. The Hag CAN be played offensively. She can put traps where she expects survivors to run, and also use chases to push survivors towards traps. With the right build, she is also great for sneaking up on survivors, as she is small and doesn't have a very big TR. There are also multiple ways you can use your traps: instead of just teleporting and hitting, a experienced Hag knows how to bodyblock doors, spin survivors away from loops, and pull them to get stuck in corners.
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Stress is not necessarily related to how strong a killer is. The Twins were aways a strong killer since their release (even though they are a little lower now after so many nerfs), and they are by far the most stressful killer in the game. Still, even the devs confirmed they were "monsters" at top level.
And yes, even against skilled players, she still has a bigger chance of winning than the huge majority of killers. Even Oni may have a bad time and end up not hooking anyone for the most game at top level. Do you think Oni is a B/C tier?
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Croquedead has a nice hag guide on steam too (a bit outdated as it was last updated in 2018, but Hag herself received no changes, so it still applies today).
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"her mechanical skill is among lowest in the game. you place traps, survivor run into them, you press tp and hit them. in term of using ability, not much complexity. her complexity comes from how you place traps".
And that's why she is great, she is less about complicated mechanics and more about making strategies and ambushes with it.
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I know how to counter her power it's just not fun. Sure if you know everywhere she put traps down then you can trigger her traps but in chase that's near impossible and trying to do so will more often then not just get you hit anyways. Also no I've watched literally some of the best hags in the world play mostly the same, better decision making and planning but the overall gameplay loop is roughly the same. Setup an area in the early game and play almost exclusively in that area and proxy camp your ass off.
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I believe Choy made a video on how they would rework Hag, personally I liked it because it was more interactive. Would recommend checking it out.
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Yes, I think Oni's a terrible killer. His reputation, like Hag's, is trumped up and based off of how good of a noob stomper he is. He has to hit survivors to get his power, so if they're good and they know that, they'll just play ultra safe against the M1 killer so he doesn't get his ability til 2 gens are left. He's like D tier, right there with Deathslinger and Sadako. It's where I almost want to put Hag even though I know, in theory, she should be A or B tier. She just isn't, because her power isn't working as intended, as I've explained multiple times. And the devs are comfortable with this because they don't have to fix it, since it's not a popular enough killer, and because they've been convinced that quick-whatevering is OP, hence Deathslinger having no quickscope, having Twins and Wesker having these big slow start-ups to their ability. It's all about creating this facade for survivors to feel good about themselves because they're like, "Woah, bro! I almost got hit there! This is so crazy!" The killer is struggling to hit them because of how clunky their power is, meanwhile the survivor thinks they're legitimately outplaying them.
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Hag is fine as is. She just needs qol changes, like being able to hit the survivor out of instantly teleporting to them, like she's supposed to be able to.
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Even with the weak early game, Oni only needs a single hit to start charging his power and two to immediatly charge it, and after that he can down multiple survivors with a single use of his power. So sure, he has risks, but suggesting he is on Sadako's level is nonsense.
Also, I don't think the Hag isn't working as intended. I landed multiple instant hits with her on the latest matches. Sometimes a survivor gets a little further than you would expect, sure, but I believe that's more of an unpredictable effect due to latency than a bug that affects Hag all the time.
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she can be in two places at once in the sense that she can be -hard camping hook- while not being directly near a hook. I think that is logic for why she is 110% m/s because they figured that the killer is applying double pressure from unhooking and chasing at the same time when hag is setup. there is just one problem with that idea. there is no incentive to unhook against hag. your better off leaving teammates on hooks on purpose and leaving them on death door. Its because being on second hook vs hag is not dangerous position for survivor. Hag's 1vs1 raw chase is really bad. She cannot close out kills quickly even when your on death hook because it makes her lose the game. to go in brief detail, in order for hag to 1vs1 you in the chase, you need place traps in such a way that they zone the survivor into the corner of the map where once they are in the corner of the map. you can create lose/lose scenario such that they are forced to walk through your trap where you can trap teleport into m1 or they avoid trap and you hit them with 110% m/s. The whole process of her raw 1vs1 chase is painfully slow. This is largely how you get your first hook as hag. In essence, you can strategically hold-w against her traps which is similar to playing against artist's birds. A chase like this for hag is nearly game-losing against strong team. this chase is easily 80+ seconds long just for hag to get 1 hook. This is why hag is terrible chase killer. Being on death-hook against hag is not dangerous because in order for her to fully kill you, she has to do +80 second chase of trap zoning just to finish you despite the survivor being on death hook.
When survivor know your weaknesses, Hag crumbles as killer. Some people do consider her S-tier though. I believe otz used to believe she is S-tier. the fact that you can leave people on death hook and rush generator against her while taking advantage of her weak chase is what makes her weak. The textbook against hag is to bully hag's early game, force her to chase you, do not let hag setup some 3 gen strategy, When hag commit to a chase, stall her chase out, when she is committing to chase, you use her slow-chase to break 3 gen which shatter her late-game potential. Hag has no global teleportation at base-kit so if all gens are spread out, She cannot make a web. When hag inevitably downs you, ignore person on hook, use the survivor's hook timer(2 minutes) to finish all remaining generators. you can very easy 3-4 man escape against hag if your team knows what to do. This is best case scenario vs hag.
there is worst case scenario for hag. This is the type of hag that persistently forces 3 generator scenario and never commits to any chases. This going to be long explanation for defeating this type of hag and it is main reason why i dislike playing against hag. you need to know how to trigger her traps in such a way where your just outside of trap range that when hag instantly tp, she will miss m1 swing. Dead hard is super strong against this gameplay because you can dead hard tp a trap allowing you to tank a hit. Both old and new dead hard are strong for this tactic. hag can tp and wait out dead hard so you do need be careful of trap position in relationship to loops. When you trigger a trap and hag m1's, you need your team to step on traps at exact same time as you getting hit as it prevents hag from tping to multiple traps and getting hits. this is how you destroy her web, then you can slowly proceed to heal and do generators while keeping her web at bay. Circle of healing is really good against these type of hag's. The other perk that is really good is prove thyself, you can stack on gens and ignore action speed penalty. hag committing to anyone in a chase is auto lose. At this point in the game you can hold-w as you get hit and hag will be unable to commit to the chase. you just need make sure that you know what is ahead of you in term of traps so you avoid the whole trap into m1, run forward second trap into m1 gameplay for hag. inexperienced survivors are usually blind to her traps and do not look at the floor markings. I think this is large reason why trapper has bad stigma with his traps being super visible while hag has this stigma of being strong killer. that is only my speculation though. These type of hag take a lot of teamwork and coordination to beat, so if your team is not on same page, its hard to beat a hag like this in soloq. I think your complains in regards to hag come from this gameplay not being effective against a swf. Strong teamwork defeat hag which is why she is not viable at super high-level(swf-level).
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I mean it turned Hag into a good killer without removing their gimmick.
It also made Hag be able to take chases but not make her extremely oppressive. It as well removed the ole' scroll wheel Hag we all know and
dontlove. It also redid their addons and basekit to make her not so reliant upon defending a single 3-gen all game.Because of the nature of Hag, and how old her design is, I think it is fair for them to get a rework. A lot of the older killers also need touching up on since most early killers lack substance to their gameplay, especially when compared to the more recently released killers.
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Nah
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She is absolutely not supposed to get hit on every triggered trap. That would be way too OP. Survivors also need a way how to get rid themselves of the trap. Otherwise you have trapper on multiple steroids with no counter play.
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Not on every triggered trap, but on the ones she instantly reacts to while not being occupied with or slowed down by anything else. There's still plenty of counterplay to that. Is Nurse not supposed to hit you when she blinks on top of you?
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