Tunnelling ruin the Game!
I play DBD every day and in every Match the Killer is tunnelling.
Why is nothing done there?
It takes the fun out of the Game. You can no longer escape because the killer is playing unfairly.
only recently are the killers all so that they play like that.
I've been playing dbd since release and love the game but now I'm on the verge of saying no I'm leaving the game.
The Match start Killer have fast one down and camp/tunnel this person. And the round is as good as lost.
every and every and every round.
how do you see it and what is your opinion on it?
Comments
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Tunneling not so much, but camping on the other hand is what pushes me into taking more and more breaks from this game.
It makes matches boring and unfun one person can't play while the others are forced to sit on gens.
I'm not talking about mid to late game I'm talking about the start at 5 gens.
4 to 5 matches in a row like this is boring. If I can't have fun on both sides it's time to take a break😃
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There's nothing unfair about tunneling. The only goal the killer has is to kill survivors and focusing out a survivor early is just the best path to victory.
You have teammates who can take hits and try to get pressure off of you, you have perks like BT, OTR, and DS to aid against tunneling, and you can always waste a killer's time in chase.
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Everyone who understands how the game works knows how unbalanced Camping and Tunneling is in it's current iteration.
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If only someone could foresee that nerfing perks that reward spreading pressure will result in tunneling increase.
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Well killers want to win too, so they have to employ proxy camping a 3 gen, tunneling, slugging and forcing 2nd hook states or death on survivors. If killers just bounce around the map to the furthest gens and fresh survivors like a bot, they lose to good survivors easily because of how fast the game is with efficient survivors
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How are they unbalanced? Specifically explain how they are unbalanced?
Survivors get basekit BT for 10 seconds with 10% haste. OTR makes this 80 seconds, minus the speed, but you get Iron Will and Aura Immunity.
Reassurance is in the game, which pauses hook timer for 30 seconds at T3.
There's actually a lot that can be done against these. Not sure how they are unbalanced.
In solo queue, I agree, but generally speaking, if the team knows what they are doing. It's fine.
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They are unbalanced because they require 0 skill and are too easily accessible. The fact that we now have to rely on basekit semi-counters that act as simply a band-aid says it all.
If a killer has an insta-down ability good luck getting to save that teammate. You won't be able to trade hooks because you'll be on the floor next to their hook.
There are too many instances where these two playstyles have no counterplay. I'm strictly speaking from a high MMR standpoint, because sure if the killer is less than smart you might be able to pull your teammate.
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If u killer could make 12 hooks se would. But the game doesn't allow that, if u try u will probably lose, maybe if u are a nurse with 4 slow gens, then yes, u maybe able to get 12 hooks
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Alternatively, nerfing a survivor perk that combatted tunneling to death.
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you have basekit bt and anti tunneling perks like otr and ds what more do you want the devs to do? hold the killer in place for 60 seconds?.
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How would solve camping / tunneling? However, the catch is you can't punish the killer for guarding the hook when there are survivors nearby.
I heard ideas such as stunning the killer for 5 seconds or disabling their power, but that seems a bit overkill and could backfire if the killer needs to use those strategies.
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How would I solve it? To give you a fair answer I would probably have to think about what would be appropriate and fair.
I know I wouldn't 'punish' killers, but I would also not make it so its easily accessible to where they can just cheese Camping/Tunneling.
I think for one hooks in a way should work similar to how PH's cages work. At least the portion where if the killer remains in a specific radius without any other survivor in that same radius for a period of time, the entity takes that survivor and places them on a different hook on the map as far away from the killer as possible.
Obviously I am just throwing an idea out there, so it could be tweaked should it create other problems. I wouldn't even include this in end-game because at that point the killer has lost most of their pressure and there is nothing else to pressure. So it could be something that only happens while generators are still up.
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Unfortuantely, it will always be a strategy, you can't solve it. If the game isn't going in the killer's favor tunneling a survivor out (even if it's me), is a great way to add pressure and slow the game down a bit. It isn't fun for the survivors, but neither is being killed, and that's part of the game. We are already possibly getting basekit Unbreakable to help make the game easier for us to prevent the killer from slugging, which in my opinion, sucks a lot more than being tunneled. Try running Off The Record, it is such a life saver.
Best anti-tunneling perks:
-Renewal
-Off The Record
-Decisive Strike
-Boon: Exponential (Try to get downed around the perimeter of the boon)
-Borrowed Time
-For The People
-Guardian
-Kindred (To allow for planning)
*Also a tip for teammates: PLEASE LEARN TO TAKE HITS! Whether someone is on death hook, or being tunneled, or is trying to make it out the exit gate, please try to be a good teammate. *
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The issue with anti-tunneling perks is that they don't stop tunneling. They make tunneling a little less effective and more punishable but if a killer wants to tunnel you, they're going to tunnel you and nothing can stop that.
Tunneling the first survivor out is still the most efficient tactic regardless of map, regardless of killer, regardless of perks. It's just that strong.
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Ever since they said that Kills/ Escapes gain MMR... that's what people do (by Any Means Necessary)
That's what I gather from reading all of the complaints about it
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That's not a bad idea, problem is how to actually animate that and so on. Great job buddy.
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tell that nonsense to the people on the other side of that.....and see how long people hang around on the game, if the game is miserable for someone they arent going to play it anymore....and that seems to be the ultimate goal with being able to take one player out every match and it does nothing but guarantees a w for one side.....if you cant see that as a problem, then theres nothing anyone is going to say thats going to change your mind.
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you seem to forget even if you do have that base kit bt killers just have to hit you once and then turn around and hit you again...its not like a gain invincibility for 80 seconds regardless if a survivor gets hit or not
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I am. I'm telling you there's absolutely nothing wrong with tunneling. It's an effective way to win and killers have no reason to play less effective just because some people can't stand losing in a pvp game.
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No, the ultimate goal is to slow generator progress by making it 3v1 instead of 4v1.
I play survivor whenever i want to play with friends and occasionally solo que. Ive been camped and tunneled and its part of the game. The draw to being a killer is making decisions and having different options to achieve the goals. If you make a wrong decision, you risk survivors escaping. The right decisions mitigate that risk such as tunneling certain players at the right times.
Instead of complaining about it on a forum, why aren't you playing to increase your skill level to counter tunneling and punish it? you have the ability to make tunneling less effective and a bad decision by wasting the killers time.
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I tunneled a few times and man it is addicting. I feel badly but it's effective as hell. Turns the rest of the game into something I can be more chill about
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Both, actually.
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I think taking away the Killer's weapon for 60 seconds after someone gets unhooked is a pretty good idea. Just go break pallets or something.
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Spare your words for you will not reach him. He is lost.
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Don't think boon exponential or decisive strike are amazing for anti tunneling if the killer is very committed. A tunneling killer is going to grab you and run for hook straight away so you don't have time for a self res, and borrowed time is a bit meh, a lot of tunnelers will just put that deep wound straight on you when you get off hook, prevents dead harding their next hit.
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I love being tunneled. I’m pretty strong in chase and can usually punish the killer for 2-3 gens before they either give up or I get adrenaline. Depends on map RNG as well.
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Thats assuming people are running those perks
Thats a really crappy argument. You have to waste perk spaces to protect against tunnelling. Shouldnt you be using the 100 options of perks to increase your enjoyment of the game? Then killers whinge and cry about survs using the same perks over and over. Well if there wasnt so much tunnelling and camping, maybe they wouldnt need to?
You are also basing this on playing in a 4 man. Most solo/2 & 2 games you do not have team mates taking hits for you or going out of their way to save/take hits. Half of the time you are left on hook until phase two anyway.
Your argument has no merit
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You pretty much hit the nail on the head with the pattern of "Just use perks a and b" quickly turning to "Perks a and b are overpowered and overused, nerf them"
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Well... no perks are good for anti tunneling if a killer is committed... if a killer is certain on tunneling you then that's it for you.
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Complains about almost everything will destroy it. This community is so whiny, its unreal.
I have never seen an Online-Game with this amount of crying everywhere.
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True. I just mean those ones don't help as much.
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Well it's better than saying "No perks help against tunneling, you're just gonna die".
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Most of the ones you suggested do help, Just feel the boon and borrowed time don't really contribute.
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That is NOT they're only goal. Their goal is to max out chases, max out breaking pallets, max out hits, max out hoooks....You can get max points without killing a single survivor. That tells you that you are one of many who make up their own rules for the game. There is no winning or losing, the ONLY objective is to get as many points as possible. The game is in a trash state because no one plays the game the way it is intended to be played, they ALL make up their own rules. One player said player numbers are up, but from what I've seen they are way down and will continue to drop cause the developers as well as players could care less about the true nature of the game and are just gonna let it die. Killers complain about salty survivors, but that also means they're just as salty. Both sides are entitled cause they don't understand the basics of the gameplay, they want a win/loss condition to make them selves feel better
Post edited by EQWashu on1 -
Tunneling is not a legit strategy. The only way to counter is to gen rush, and that too is toxic gameplay and boring giving you the minimum amount of poinst possible. If you're just playing the game to get kills or gen rush, go play Friday the 13th, a game that is 100% about doing nothing but that pretty much.
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They need to make endurance permanent for that entire 10 seconds...That really is the ONLY way to stop camping and tunneling. If the killer has to hit you multiple times to get you, all the better. Every player says the game is survivor side, but it's definitely not. I play both sides equally and know that camping, tunneling, slugging as a killer should be considered taking game hostage, cause it's literally the definition of it. Its sad that Behaviour sides with their streamer trolls, but that's how all games are sadly. The game just needs to be dumped and reworked in all possible ways. Two games coming out next year that have similar gameplay will definitely make this game as popular as F13 LMAO
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Shadow Step? It does if you're in chase and know how to mindgame, you can lose the killer. BT you can help someone get out of the gate if they are close enough and your teammates can take hits.
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Gen rushing and sweaty teams/SWF also ruin the game and no one is complaining about it.
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This was something I brought up a while back, and really the only solution to the face-camping issue besides buffing survivor to ungodly levels of power, so it's good to hear others have the same idea!
My only addition would be for this effect to cancel once all generators are done. I think, by then, it's one of the few things left for the killer to do.
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Tunnelling would soon stop if there was some buff to the person unhooked that they could not be picked up by the killer for 120 seconds after getting off the hook. Down them by all means, but it'd be a waste of time and then show true toxicity instead of wanting to win. The killer then has to slug that one player if he wants to kill them that badly all the while allowing others to get in a position to flashlight save or get in a position for a possible pallet stun.
I know id not bother with that. Killers tunnel and camp because its the easiest solution. They dont care about being good at the game. They want to feel their egos and penis's getting bigger at the thought of getting a 4k making them good at the game.
Playing both sides though i know how disgusting it is to be on the end of a 4 man swf bully squad. Thats not fun either. But both sides seem to have an entitelemtn. Both want to play how they want and not give a crap about how the other players are enjoying the game. But i've had countless friends get sick and tired of being bullied or camped/tunnelled so they put this game down and aint touched it since.
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Sorry but you're the one with an argument with no merit. @Crowman is correct. I do see solo survivors taking hits for one another; it's one of the skills you learn to get out of low MMR (which is where what you're describing as solo behaviour happens).
As well, your argument about not needing a perk is non-sensical. Why do Killers need gen slowdown perks? Shouldn't they be able to run varied perks to enjoy the game? That's the equivalent of what you're arguing.
I do think the delta between strategy and counter needs to be examined but don't dismiss strategies that actually work.
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At some point people just have to accept that for both sides, focusing on your objective is the most effective way to win. Wanna win as killer? Focus your first 4 hooks on two survivors. Wanna win as survivor? Crank those first 3 gens out in the first 2 minutes and then watch as the killer is forced to proxy camp to get pressure back. This is the game we play. Unless each sides’s objective changes, this is the way it will always be. Base kit perks will not change this.
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You do. I do not. But you are right. It happens at lower MMR. However, that doesnt meant everyone seems to want to get out of mmr. I take hits for those being tunnelled, so does my friend, yer we are still in lower MMR because of it.
And yes, i have actually stated over the years on this forum that killers shouldnt feel like they have to run gen slowdown perks. So you're taking this point a bit out of context. We are talking about tunnelling, which i have stated, should not need every surv to run anti tunnelling perks. Because thats what this discussion is about.
Likewise, Killers shouldnt have to take gen slowdown perks. It does suck the fun out of it and makes 95% of the perks pointless. For BOTH sides.
Back to the argument without merit, once again i do, and it is you who do not because you are basing your argument on your own experience which happens to be the better experience. The point of your argument seems to be "everyone in low mmr should know taking hits gets you out of low MMR and into higher MMR" In reality, its me and my friend taking the hits, dying, and those who hide and do nothing all game managing to get out the hatch or exit gate. Resulting in MMR loss for those who tried to do stuff in the game and an MMR gain for those who did sod all. This happens all too often until me and my friend get sick of it and just stop bothering taking hits and low and behold, we survive.
This game is balanced around two sets of players. Killers and 4 man swf. If you are a solo surv, 2 man or even a 3 man, you are running a huge risk because of who is on your team. The vast majority at lower MMR's are solo survs who will screw you over to survive while not being able to last longer than 15 seconds in a chase, then killing themselves on hook.
No one should be punished for wanting to play the game as opposed to just sitting on a gen and pressing space every now and then while a killer is sat there doing nothing stood next to someone hooked.
I woud rather have 100 games where i die but die fairly, have fun chases and play the game as the vast majority used to have fun playing it than survive 10 games against a killer who camps everyone else.
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Funny thing is, i've never seen camping and tunnelling this bad and i've been playing since Freddy first came out.
The devs always used to say and usually killers were happy that 2 kills = a win. Its meant to be balanced that way apparently. Maybe times have changed. But now all i see is people say "i want to win" and a win for killer equates to a 4k apparently.
I always saw a win as getting the most BP. Couldnt care less who survived. This game used to be about the thrill of the hunt/chase. Now its an ego inflation contest over who is left standing.
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If you're arguing that game health would be better without camping and tunneling I completely agree. My point is simply those strategies work and shouldn't be discounted.
Ideally I would like to see:
(a) Reassurance get buffed to a longer duration and range.
(b) DS get reverted back to 5 seconds and, ideally, working on both hook states for the perk while survivors get the current DS as basekit.
(c ) Killers get a quasi Dying Light effect for gen slowdown on each hook but the slowdown effect disappearing when the hooked survivor dies (but only the slowdown for that survivor) and/or BBQ and Chili style aura reading (now there's both incentives and disincentives to not tunnel); and
(d) Collision detection be turned off on the recently unhooked survivor for at least basekit BT duration or as long as they have an Endurance effect on. That way BT and OTR are much harder to use for bodyblocks and the Killer can't stop the survivor from reaching a loop
Then after seeing the effects on escapes/kills balancing as appropriate.
I understand facing tunnelling and camping is super frustrating at the beginning and I would like to see the above suggestions. In the meantime, though, strategies that work should become more well-known. They do work so saying they don't or can't doesn't help people counter them. There are some very valid arguments against tunneling and camping; I just don't think discounting the strategies that do work is one or them.
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I prefer being tunneled all game than doing gens all game. It's more fun in a chase
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Yeah, I agree.
Tunneling is a crutch to a lot of Killers at this point.
It's necessary against really good Survivors but the fact of the matter is, nobody plays against those players consistently.
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This 100%. Some matches the gens are getting done so quickly that I tunnel to give myself a chance.
Oh and if I see so much as a single teabag, hear flashlight clicks, or if a survivor makes an idiot out of me as killer, I will throw my chances of a winning game and you will be swiftly tunnelled out.
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My opinion on this is that killers should play however they want within the rules. Tunneling can be a good strategy. Against good survivors, winning by hooking everyone equally is not possible. Try playing killer sometime and you’ll understand
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tunneling is boring yea but you can atleast run perks to kinda prevent it... Camping on the other hand is pretty bruh. There isn't really anything you can do i mean yes Camaraderie works but thats about it
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