Counterforce discussion
Continuing a series of threads on the least used perks according to Nightlight, next up is Jill’s perk Counterforce (0.54% usage)
Counterforce - You cleanse Totems 20% faster. After cleansing a Totem, you see the aura of the furthest Totem from you for 2/3/4 seconds and you gain an additional 20% stackable speed bonus to cleansing Totems for the remainder of the trial.
Do you love cleansing totems? Have I got a perk for you! 😄
So if you want to mess with totems there are basically two survivor perks that help, Counterforce and Small Game. Small Game is a bit more popular but that could simply be because it’s a generic perk whereas Counterforce is an unlockable on Jill so not as many people might have bothered getting it.
On the plus side Counterforce definitely sounds effective at its mission - destroying all totems. I think the reason this isn’t more popular though is destroying totems in and of itself is kind of a secondary goal compared to everything else survivors do like gen repair and hiding and running from the killer. So perks that help with those core areas are used a lot more than a perk which very specifically is used for a side objective. And if the killer happens to not be using any Hexes then Counterforce is even less useful on its own, you’d really have to pair it with a perk that gives you a bonus for cleansing like Inner Focus or Clairvoyance, etc, to get value out of destroying a bunch of dull totems.
Also the popularity of cleansing totems is meta dependent because it conflicts with survivors who like to bless them for Boons, notably Circle of Healing. I’m sure there have been a few salty aftergame chats between survivors after a loss where one had Circle of Healing but didn’t get to use it because another survivor or two went around cleansing all the totem spots. And Circle of Healing in particular is super popular, it’s hovering around the number 3 or 4 spot currently on Nightlight (about 20% usage, right below Prove Thyself).
In total, I don’t necessarily think this perk needs a buff, it’s actually probably really good in its niche use. It just so happens that its niche isn’t as popular right now as it might be if, say, Hexes were super popular and blessings were less used. Hypothetically, though, if the devs wanted to make it used a bit more, they could buff it by giving its bonuses and triggers to both cleansing and blessing totems. That would allow it to synergize with Boons a bit more.
Comments
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I don't run it because of Boons. Boons>Cleansing
The only scenario where I see Counterforce as an option is if the Killer runs sth like Pentimento/Plaything. But that's all. And this perk combo isn't meta enough to make Counterforce a reasonable choice.
even then it's just okay-ish. Because of solo q. You are most likely the only one with Counterforce so you run around the map and cleanse all totems. But others are doing it aswell. And once again no gens are getting done but hey at least all totems got cleansed..
Solo Q is that bad. If it wasn't that bad then yea Counterforce would be viable I think.
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the perks good at what it does. what it does is bad - you should not cleanse totems bc your team likely has a boon and wants to be able to place it. and hexes arent worth cleansing bc killers use hexes for penti stacks (devour shouldnt get 3 stacks until endgame if youre decent and noed does nothing until endgame - penti does nothing in endgame and no other hexes are a threat)
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I think it should show the closest totem instead of the furthest. That'd make it better at it's job.
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Detective hutch+ green map is superior choice for killing totems. Counter-force and Small game are inferior choices towards killing totems.
Counter-force is too time inefficient for breaking totems because it shows aura of further totem. they need change it to the aura of closest totem. Instead, counter-force is supplementary perk that you use with detective hutch and map for extra cleansing speed efficiency.
one of the issues is that these type of perks suffer from feeling the need to be base-kit because they feel like wasted perk slot cost to use that does not feel powerful. This is most obviously seen on killer perk: Shattered hope where many killer feel like the perk should be base-kit. What I find strange is how survivor never complained about asking small game or detective hutch to be base-kit when old ruin and new ruin were meta. Nether survivor or Killer wants to give up a perk slot to counter each other's perks. They rather risk punishment of the perk being used than give up a perk slot.
At the same time, for survivors, there is no outstanding powerful hexes on killer side that make these perks worth equipping. the survivor can essentially outskill all the hexes. When hex:ruin and noed were stronger, these perks had low counter-play and near guaranteed reward for the killer equipping them so there was more reason to use these perks, but due to above problem of the perks feeling like perk tax. survivor did not use it. the perk tax problem is why you sometimes get suggestions like -What if DBD had 5 perks slots?-. It is usually referring to a player wanting to use a particular perk but feels like the other perks are to mandatory for them to use a perk they want to use.
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It's a bad perk. No reason to cleanse totems now that hexes are a lot less common & boon totems. You may be like "oh but noed-" bro its so time consuming its not even worth it.
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To be fair... This perk didn't need to exist in the first place... like you said there was Small Game and Boons
Also this perk was released before Boons were a thing so it made more sense then (then) it does now
But Jill is paid DLC (license) so they needed to make another perk for her
This also sheds some light on Survivors being unable to see each others perks (along with some others)
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I think its fine IMO
It helps a lot with totem cleansing challenges and i think thats enough
Theres far more perks that need to be buffed first
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Its 100% worth it if you have a totem cleansing challenge
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"No other hexes are a threat"
Tell that to third seal in a slugging build, especially in solo queue
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yeah but other than that when do you really need it
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The one thing I'm not a fan of with this perk is that you see the furthest totem's aura for a short location, but then what? Making the choice to run immediately over there not only can be a waste of time, but depending on your pathing you may run right into the killer. Even if you decide to mark that mental note of where a totem may be, you may not get over there OR someone else may get to it before you do to boon/cleanse it.
Its very niche but very weak if you want to use it as an information perk to go totem hunting.. A buff that would make the aura reveal last a longer duration, anywhere like 10-15 seconds or so, to give the perk a little more help with scouting. Or at least a change to where the perk will ignore boon totems as the furthest totems since you already know their location.
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I think the main problem isn't that the perk is weak by any means, but boons (mainly CoH) are a better choice. I think a small nerf to CoH's self-healing speed would be fine (make it 35%, similar to self-care). And if they nerf this boon, perhaps more people will use Inner Healing (and Counterforce).
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