Didn't want to make Dead hard a 3rd health state?
So the devs said when reworking dead hard that they saw how it was being used as a third health state and they didn't want that. So they made it to where if they got hit they get... deep wound...a third health state.
This perk is in every lobby, every game and it's still annoying. Why make dead hard be a third health state? Seriously... dead hard needs to go under the knife to make it as pointless as new hex: ruin. Yeah I'm serious.
This perk is still making matches frustrating because I'm still having to wait it out, getting constantly body blocked (even when I'm not tunneling) and the ones who run it thinking they are gods should actually get their heads checked. 2 hits per survior is a fair game make that 3 though? Makes the game a headache and a chore.
Comments
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The new version of dead hard is much more about reads than reactions. There are still plenty of people who can and use it that way, which is why it is still meta and popular with them. The change was a major skill floor adjustment, which was the main problem most people had with it, and why the devs adjusted it how they did. They made it harder to use effectively, and removed lose/lose situations from it.
The plan was never to just nerf it into worthlessness, and that should never be the case with any balance changes. Thats what you do when there's a problem and you simply can't think of a solution. They thought of a solution, and honestly its one of the better solutions they've come up with regarding how to handle a problem perk.
Learn the counters, learn the situations people want to use it in, adapt. Since Its usage is much more focused on reads than reactions, so just think of it as another layer to the mindgame.
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What was the magic word?
'Adapt'
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I absolutely cannot believe people are still complaining about Dead Hard.
Just adapt
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Adapt is apparently a foreign term here ppl. At the very least tell them how to adapt so they can atleast complain about that instead.
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I could be wrong but I don’t think the devs ever said “they’re nerfing it because it was used as a 3rd health state”. They DID in fact say that they’re nerfing it so people couldn’t “dead hard for distance” anymore though, which is what they did.
with that said, I don’t get why people think DH is extremely different than the other exhaustions. If I 99’d my sprint burst I would get the same amount of distance as you hitting me with dead hard. If I found a random window with lithe it would be basically the same thing. And DH can be baited pretty easily since it’s only active for a half a second.
honestly the DH changes fit more in line with it actually being classified as an “exhaustion” perk now. (Every exhaustion perk gives a speed boost) rather than you just jumping ahead 2 feet and that’s it
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Rework head on, instead of stunning the killer you go maximum overdrive
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Facts forget about head on but honestly I never understood why it was an exhaustion in the 1st place. Should have a cool down of like 40 seconds or something. Or at least grant the survivor 1 - 2 seconds of a speed burst for the 1 second loss of the 3 seconds that the killer is stunned because you’re mid animation and then when you start running you’re slow
smash hit works the same way, you stun the killer AND get the speed boost AND the killer might have to waste time breaking the pallet
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I disagree with them getting the stun and the speed boost, smash hit requires you to use up a pallet, head on doesn't break the locker
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But you’re using up the pallet either way.. head on requires you to be in the locker for 3 seconds to activate it, let alone be near a locker. Smash hit doesn’t require anything you wouldn’t normally be doing
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I get that people are tired of dead hard since as it is right now it's strength in a skilled players hand can be almost as strong or even stronger in a few scenarios but it takes a significantly larger amount of skill to actually use and its way easier to bait out now.
The perk should still be good, it feels like people just want it six feet under and I don't think they'll ever do that.
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Bro on both sides this term is just dumb. Like people say it about everything, stop being salty. You can't believe people are complaining about the most used exhaustion perk yet again? wow. It's not as broken as before and it takes skill now but it's still s tier.
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Dude, it’s beyond easy to wait out.
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Just because a perk is used often doesn't mean it's bad or needs to be changed. I'm tired of seeing pain resonance but I'm not making posts on it
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As several people here have already pointed out, just adapt bro, new DH rewards survivors for good reaction time and predictions rather then simply pressing the E key and magically reaching a window they otherwise wouldn’t
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Adam teaching English be like
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Yes but this adapt thing just seems like a salty come back instead of any form of discussion. You might as well not say anything. Pain res probably does need a nerf. IDC about dh myself because I play blight and bait it out easily, but you can understand why most people who hate it when there is no counter play at pallets when played properly. When a perk is Used at high mmr more often than any other perk it's probably due for a change yet again. Though I doubt they will.
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I'm an adam main so I love this thank you
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Head on is an exhaustion perk specifically so it can't synergize with other exhaustion perks. being able to stun the killer on demand like that is a pretty big deal, especially if you could then sprint burst and get to the next map over while they recover.
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Smash Hit prevents predropping pallets, which can honestly be better than stunning the killer in many situations, like spirit fury/enduring. Sure, it would give you enough distance in that situation to likely make the difference, but it also might not depending on the situation/killer.
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The gameplay mechanic of breathe down the survivor's neck until he uses his dead hard is one of the most unfun things in this entire game and they should have changed that
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head on needs big buff to be honest. it has 3 second channel time, to use it in a chase, you need to use quiet&quiet so you can do rushed action in chase and the reward is 3 second stun which is mediocre reward in term of distance for exhausts. pretty much all of its aspects needed to be buffed. there should be no activation time for using it, you should have some build-in surpression when going in lockers without needing a another perk and the stun should be 4 seconds long. a killer can easily check a locker before picking up near a locker.
Smash hit is another really bad perk whose only purpose is to counter enduring spirit fury. Its too easy for killer to respect pallets for you to get stuns. I think the perk should increase pallet stun hitbox a little bit, so its harder for killer to respect pallets when its activate as secondary effect similar to balance landing's stagger reduction effect. currently, you will naturally counter this perk as killer without really doing anything special.
both of those exhaustion perks need buffs lmo.
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1) you don't need Q&Q to use it in a chase, as long as you have enough distance you can fast vault into the locker and force a standoff. You can even pair it with deception and get even more crazy with it.
2) it was never intended to just be an on demand stun, which is why it has a setup time.
3) your buff suggestions would make it absurdly strong in swf.
4) learn to use the perk properly if you want to. Use it for distraction scenarios, or even saves as the killer walks by. It's not a club you just beat the killer over the head with, it has nuance for a reason.
As for smash hit, I don't think its a fantastic perk, but i absolutely understand why it works the way it does. Its actually extremely effective if you use it to mindgame killers into respecting pallets: If the killer needs to use their power to deny the pallet, you get an option for when they don't do so:
an example would be huntress. when looping her with her 110 speed, she slows down even more to throw a hachet, which is where the mindgame comes with her at pallets when going around corners, like say a jungle gym: she cant even remotely see where you are to throw if she has to charge too early, so they usually go for it late or try to force an M1 if they think you're not going to use the pallet, and charge early if they think you are. If they see you're respecting the hatchet option, they'll be more likely to go in for a m1 since you're not using the pallet early. Pallet stun in this case gets you distance, but she's huntress, so how much that distance matters is a different story. Smash hit, on the other hand, gives you massive distance, and it doesnt even need to be in a straight line. This applies to any killers who need to slow down to use their antiloop in a non-trap fashion, or even just prepare it early like wesker/demo/etc. Again, it absolutely has its case uses, they're just not as universal as some others.
Also the expanded stun range is an absolutely horrible idea, the pallet collision is already outside of the killer's perspective as it is. I've always jokingly referred to pallet stuns as dropping the pallet on the killer's toes because of how far in front of them it actually is from their view.
You're welcome to think they need buffs, but you'd probably benefit more from leaning how to use them in their current iteration before demanding more. Or just use other perks you prefer instead.
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killer mains, which are the majority here on the forum, can't adapt. they only whine and complain. until surivors are just hanging on the hook when the game starts.. then they "might" be happy.. might be
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Pretty sure it was made as a 3rd health state. After all it gave : 1- invincibility for a short time, 2- distance, and devs have spoken that distance was not its intended use.
So it was always about a 3rd health state if used well. And it still is after the change, which makes it perfectly in line with its intended purpose.
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That's the problem with using "adapt" or "get good" as some sort of universal put-down: eventually, it really is going to be the correct answer, but people are just gonna ignore it.
Not every "adapt" is valid. But neither is every complaint. There's nuance, folks.
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From my perspective Dead Hard is such an useless perk. Why?
1st: If the Killer has a high ping, your DH won't work even if you timed it correctly
2nd: Killer tend to wiff way more often when you DH for whatever reason
3rd: If you get tunneled off hook or if the Killer has some sort of a Mending mechanic you can't even use it
Additionally DH doesn't work anymore in every situation so it also got new counterplay where the Survivor has to predict or bait the Killer but if this doesn't work the Survivor gets downed. Old Dh was just pressing E for the win.
I already equipped Sprint Burst just because most of the times Dead Hard just won't work and it's hella frustrating.
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I prefered the old dead hard as an Oni main.
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Interesting. The same people that after the 6.1.0 patch claimed that DH is dead, suddenly think its fine.
Meta completely changed for killers but didn´t change for survivors. Which indicates that either killer perks got hit harder or that survivor perks were more busted from the beginning.
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People say adapt to the new dead hard when I'm STILL having to wait it out before the change. I'm doing the same thing. Waiting.
Waiting for dead hard. Nothing has changed. Perk is still an annoying forced waiting simulator that gives the survivor a THIRD health state when the devs said they didn't want to make it act like a THIRD health state.
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Majority are killer players? That's a good one. No. There are waaaaay more survivors in this game, the forums, Twitter and every where else whixh will always mean they are the first and the loudest whiners.
I'm only complaining because dead hard is unfair like nurse or getting hit by a flying truck in the form of a huntress hatchet even though you are hidden entirely behind a wall. Not to mention it's unfun like old hatch stand offs or getting trapped in a corner until you have a murder of crows above your head.
Its unfun because killers are STILL waiting for dead hard which means that survivors can still make it to a safe window pallet or get a body block.
I'm not adapting I'm doing the same thing before the change.
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Dead Hard is still a really good perk but also weaker and less popular overall than the old version. Its usage is still about 1/2 to 2/3 what it was and using it for distance to reach a vault or pallet, which was the stronger effect of the old version, is basically gone. (The new version can work as kind of a tie breaker when used literally right as someone reaches a pallet and immediately does a pallet drop, so if the killer swings at that moment they either get blocked or get pallet stunned, but in terms of winning a race that’s about it.) And it doesn’t work against various things the old one did like Trapper traps, Deathslinger spears, Plague infection puke, Doctor shocks, leaping through a killer bodyblock, etc.
That said, I do think Dead Hard still has one problem, people using auto-Dead Hard cheats. These existed with the old version too but because lunging for distance was so popular compared to using it to dodge attacks the cheats didn’t come into play as often as they can now. But since the only purpose of the perk now is to block attacks the cheats may be cropping up a lot more visibly. One of the more frustrating parts about that is it kind of takes away from people who actually have great timing with the skill because there’s an asterisk when you see a quick block sometimes of wondering if it was really the player doing it or an auto trigger. Which is a shame, I’d love to see the devs figure out a way to patch that out but I’m not sure how it could be done without just totally revamping what the perk does in the first place. 🤷♂️
But cheaters aside, I don’t personally have a big issue with the new version Dead Hard. Yeah it’s popular but if I hit someone with it I’m effectively worst case inflicting a slowdown on them where they have to Mend for a bit rather than be on gens which is an ok consolation prize.
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It's strong perk but is not as OP as before and require more skill, the use of Dead Hard for gaining distance was the mast annoying thing about it and it was removed. As killer you can counter it, if the survivors use it in a pallet you still can hit them before they throw the pallet, maybe the first pallet the survivor throw work because yo hit and don't expet the Dead Hard, but when chasing that survivor again you know he have it.
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It’s not really “on demand” when it takes 3 seconds to activate. Basically not able to use it at all in a chase unless you have quick and quiet but that’s still pretty rare. It’s more of a troll perk than anything. And the distance you make is weak
So you pre drop 1 pallet and don’t pre drop the next pallet you run to? I’d 100% take bringing smash hit chances than bringing head on lmfao at least I’d get value out of smash hit. Even if the killer had spirit fury and enduring
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Those option selects at the windows and pallets? Sure.
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This. I want to lunge. Why do I have to wait for my attack when I'm in range? It's stupid. The only thing survivors have against this btw is, "So you just want to carelessly lunge?" demanding skill and counterplay in the simplest of functions, even basic attacking. It's sad.
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Yes that word that seems to trigger those with no skills or that don't want things difficult for them.
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Dead hards core problem was never addressed- it makes killers afraid to swing because if the survivor hits dead hard they zoom off at Mach 10.
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Funny cause majority of the posts in the forums are survivors complaining about tunneling and asking for basekit perks. 🤡
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You people are never satisfied with anything...
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If the game is inundated with survivors why are killer queue times long & why is the BP bonus rarely if ever on killers?
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Killer q times are not long at all. For my MMR the incentive jumps from 1 to the other frequently.
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Length is relative here. Personally, they’re unacceptably long for me. But regardless, they are broadly longer than survivor queue times.
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In europe it's always on survivor 100% and killer queque time takes forever whereas on survivor they are instant.
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Nope welcome to life. This isn't just a dbd thing.
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I love you. Perfectly said!
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You have to think when to lunge if survivor has dh. It's just another mindgame and on console you have to think even if they don't have dh how to lunge as they can 360s you attack so good if pc players have to think sometimes too.
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It's different for everyone. It's based on the player's skill, location and need at any time of the day. In the area I'm in survivors are always at bp because most survivors are at work or school or busy with life. At night when they come home they play only survivor thus making killers more needed.
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you mean like waiting out and trying to bait a hit so i don't get hook grabbed in a face camp unhook scenario? that removes all healthstates instantly is base kit and somthing i have no control over outside of having more than one person around while the hooked player likely gets sacrificed since the killer isn't the one on a timer
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locker stand-off are favorable towards the killer. its way easier for killer to bait rushing out of a locker then it is for the survivor get the stun. I think most killer player will say that locker stand-off is just free hit/free down in like 99% of cases. I think when people talk about exhaustion perks, they do not mention head on because of how bad of exhaustion perk it is.
killer can just open lockers before picking up. in practical gameplay, a survivor standing in a locker is not time efficient on generators. you want to be on generators when your teammate are in chase. Going for saves with head on is niche and relatively easy to counter. stunning the killer mid-chase is a waste of survivor time. If anything this just put you as the tunnel target for the killer because you have one of worst exhaustion perks in the chase. Chasing head on survivor is way more simple then chasing dead hard player or sprint burst/Lithe hold-w survivor.
Abusable for Swf's? 4x vigil+4x head on is a meme build where nobody does generators and tries to stun the killer for the entire game. This is just throwing games and is a free win for the killer. SWF that is trying to win would not use these perks.
In regards smash hit, Huntress that can throw over loops making smash hit a suicidal perk. rock loops are time-waste loops for huntress and the survivor player does not need smash-hit to successfully killer's time at these loops. Kicking pallets is generally a slow action for killer and huntress generally kicks pallets that she cannot throw over. Smash hit is encouraging you to leave loops early when waiting for the killer to break the pallet would roughly get you to the next loop. I am far intimated by facing dead hard as huntress then facing smash-hit. This is a bad example.
Also the expanded stun range is an absolutely horrible idea, the pallet collision is already outside of the killer's perspective as it is. I've always jokingly referred to pallet stuns as dropping the pallet on the killer's toes because of how far in front of them it actually is from their view.
I rarely ever get hit by a pallet stun because I precisely know the hitbox of the pallet stun to avoid getting stunned. This is not my experience with pallet stuns. A lot of the time, respecting pallet as killer leads to two outcomes, the survivor not dropping the pallet and get hit around next loop or dropping the pallet and not getting the stun. its why those stun challenges in archives are often lead survivors to camp pallets to purposely tank hits then droping the pallet(waste pallets) to get stun-challenges done. Smash hit as result makes you play worse as survivor because of how unreliable pallet stunning a killer is when a killer respects pallets and understand his/her distances for lunging. When you play against legion feral frenzy you will understand these situations more clearly.
both of these perk should be reliable stuns because the sprint burst type perks are generally reliable distance gain perks when survivor player plays around them. these two perks on other hand are just not worth using. they require the killer to play poorly/make a mistake for the perk to activate.
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I love how he’s trying to say that you’re “bad” and the perk itself isn’t that good at all lmfao (“you’d problem benefit more with learning how to use them before demanding more”) like we can’t just test it out for 1 game and see that it’s not a good exhaustion perk at all?? There is no situation where you can’t tell me that head on isn’t the worst exhaustion and could definitely use a slight buff. If you’re looping around a jungle gym with a locker you literally need quick and quiet and you gotta hope the killer doesnt see you jump in the locker and plenty of times the killer can easily tell because your scratch marks literally stop at the locker so you also gotta hope the killer doesn’t notice that.
Without quick and quiet you basically have to be versing a bad killer for him to not realize you jumped into the locker so it’s almost not possible. If you’re “far enough to where you can jump into the locker and wait for the killer to come” then it’s almost like you could’ve kept running and been just as fine?? Lmfao head on stun isn’t long at all so instead of wasting time sitting in a locker for 3+ seconds and letting the killer catch up to you, only for you to have about 2 seconds of distance now because of how short head on stun is, was pointless. You could’ve used the distance you first had to run to a pallet or a window.
“use deception” sure, but what if I need to actually JUMP into the locker? I can’t because deception takes priority. So it’s not always good. To pair deception with perks that’s require you to jump into lockers/are time gated.
if you need to pair a pair with another perk or even 2 perks for it to be good then it’s obviously not as good as you think it is.
we aren’t talking about being in a swf and hiding in a locker while a friend runs by.. anything is good in a swf. Plus that requires another person to be off of a gen and hiding in a locker. AND now that person is now exhausted so they’re out of another exhaustion for just in case the killer ends up trying to kill them instead. You can give reasons all you want but none of them will end up being good enough
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